Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]  (Read 2315930 times)

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3675 on: 2017-06-24 03:06:48 »
When it's done.

Jaki

  • *
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3676 on: 2017-06-24 08:44:00 »
.
« Last Edit: 2018-10-20 07:27:21 by Jaki »

Liquid_Vegeta

  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3677 on: 2017-06-24 18:19:05 »
     - Closest equivalent in English that we could come up with would be "birth mother/mum/mom" or "biological mother/mum/mom" for Ifalna
     - General understanding that this may break up conversation in a weird way, but it's how a number of my friends refer to their adoptive parents

I was literally about to make a post suggesting 'birth mother' but you beat me to it.

+1 for Birthmother and Mum/Mom
« Last Edit: 2017-06-24 18:21:39 by Liquid_Vegeta »

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3678 on: 2017-06-25 01:06:08 »
I've been interested in upgrading to R05c from R03b, but after several years have forgotten some of the process involved. I had converted the game from Steam to the PC-98 version and have a separate directory for each. Is it simply a matter of pointing the R05c installer to the PC-98 directory and it will correctly install over the old? Or is it necessary to uninstall R03b first now that mods like Menu Overhaul have substantially changed?
Furthermore, is it possible to copy the entire PC-98 directory elsewhere and thus have multiple installations to play, like is already possible between my Steam and PC-98 installation?

On mother nomenclature: the game's present usage of "real mother" in both localizations is acceptable and has been used in other popular media without complaint (eg Return of the Jedi's Luke: "Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"), along with sounding arguably better to the ear. It seems people have become more sensitive to language over time, but in that case even "birth mother" has been regarded as problematic. I'd say leave "real mother" as it is; in any case, the game says more than enough about Aerith's mothers to let the player know she loves them both.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3679 on: 2017-06-25 01:46:21 »
Always do it on a new install.  Pretty sure the readme tells you to as well.  Also, the mother issue is solved, and  I'm definitely not using birth mother.  It breaks flow and sounds weird.

One day I think we'll also get round to the debug menu.

Quote
Huh? You’re not thinking of…
stepping on me are you?{NEW}
I may be a floor but that
don’t give you the right!!



« Last Edit: 2017-06-25 02:58:26 by DLPB »

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3680 on: 2017-06-25 03:44:17 »
Always do it on a new install.  Pretty sure the readme tells you to as well.
Alright. The readme was not clear on that point. This is what it says:
Spoiler: show
Quote
After you run the installer for the first time, the above files will be placed into the back-up folder (BACKUP-Reunion).  You may also create this folder and place the files into it before running the installer. The effect will be the same. The files from the backup folder will always be used in preference to the ones at the default locations.

The best way to install The Reunion (so that you can reinstall time after time) is to install all non-conflicting mods FIRST, starting with clean files. From there, place the correct files (noted above) into a new folder "Backup-Reunion" inside the game root. Each time The Reunion is installed, it will then use those files, saving you the need to mess about each time.

Install: Run the installer.

Reinstall: You can install multiple times without any side effects.
      If you wanted to include something that you missed
      the first time, re-running the installation a second time
      should pose no problems. Running the installer a
      second time will NOT overwrite anything in the backup
      folder.

Uninstall: Select uninstall option.
               The backup folder requires manual deletion to ensure
               that there are no problems. If you choose to uninstall,
      all other options will be ignored. 

However, I've been unable to successfully uninstall Reunion from my PC-98 build in its entirety during tests. I ran the R03b .exe and selected the uninstall options, which seemingly did remove files (877 files remaining compared to 1,010 before), but opening the game proved that the mod was mostly intact. This installation has only ever been touched by the Game Converter and The Reunion; no other mods have been used. This was tested on a FINAL_FANTASY_VII folder that had been duplicated in full to another drive so that my existing game would be spared (which may be to blame if the game internally is still pointing to the old directory; I don't know how it functions under the hood).

Additionally, though I haven't attempted to install it yet, the option to choose between Steam and PC-98 is greyed out in the R05c installer - even when pointed to directories that have been converted. I assume something has changed between Reunion versions that makes the option redundant.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3681 on: 2017-06-25 04:24:41 »
Yeah, R05 is a different revision and will definitely require totally clean files.  The option of which game version to install to is removed because it finds the version automatically.

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3682 on: 2017-06-25 07:24:10 »
Okay. I was hoping to bring my duplicated directory to a clean PC-98 state and so have two concurrent versions to play and compare, but then I ran into the aforementioned problem. I bit the bullet and uninstalled R03b from the original directory. That seemed to do the trick.
Unfortunately, R05c did not install correctly. I've attempted to illustrate the problem via a screenshot. http://imgur.com/a/48puI
Even after redirecting it to my PC-98 folder, it appears to be applying a Steam installation.

In the meantime I've reapplied R03b with no issues.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3683 on: 2017-06-25 08:58:40 »
You've got a ff7en exe in your folder. Ff7 1998 doesn't use that, its s steam exe

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3684 on: 2017-06-25 13:01:07 »
That did it. Removing it allowed the installer to detect it properly. Looks like everything's as it should be. Thanks.

Started a new game and enjoying the changes as I go. Mentioning this in case it was unintended:
mds7pb_1: Wedge cannot be interacted with after his dialogue about Tifa's cooking. Tifa cannot be interacted with after answering how well you slept.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3685 on: 2017-06-25 13:03:27 »
If you made a choice in those dialogues then that is a fix - to stop you answering differently.  Once you've had a dialogue, you aren't meant to get another chance to answer. See The Reunion Database.

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3686 on: 2017-06-26 00:30:13 »
I did make sure to check the database beforehand, but as you used a different and better solution to the same problem for Wedge in mds7pb_2 (you can still interact with him afterwards, but his dialogue has been slightly rewritten with your response in mind and you are not given another choice), it looked like a possible oversight.

In Tifa's case the change was probably unintentional. No problem with dialogue choices concerning her is listed in the database, and at any rate there was nothing to fix: in vanilla psx and pc, after she reacts to your dialogue choice, she declares "I'm going this time."
This is the only line she repeats if you interact with her again; no further choice is offered. If you avoid talking to her at all and skip straight to Barrett, this line will be added after speaking with Barrett and before she starts talking about the weapon shop. Otherwise, it is omitted.
Presently in R05c Tifa's dialogue ends after she reacts to your choice, and you can no longer interact with her at all. She will declare her intention to go only after you talk to Barrett since she was unable to say it earlier.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3687 on: 2017-06-26 01:15:58 »
Quote
Presently in R05c Tifa's dialogue ends after she reacts to your choice, and you can no longer interact with her at all. She will declare her intention to go only after you talk to Barrett since she was unable to say it earlier.

Then it's definitely on purpose. Having a character keep repeating that line is a little silly, since she repeats it again during main exposition. Additionally, in R05, she will turn to face you at all times.

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3688 on: 2017-06-26 01:35:47 »
To be clear, Tifa would only say that line once in the vanilla game, unless the player spoke to her a second time. It's omitted from the post-materia dialogue if the player already heard it.

While it can be seen as a little silly, it's no worse than the player talking to any NPC repeatedly. The alternative (rendering an NPC unresponsive to player input) is worse, and the game makes a point to keep those to a minimum.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3689 on: 2017-06-26 01:55:48 »
I'll have a look at it and make sure.  Either way, I will make sure Tifa can't just repeat the same dialogue.  NPCs aren't a problem.  It's much worse when it's main character in a scene like that.

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3690 on: 2017-06-26 02:13:23 »
OK. Regardless, it is altogether great to see so many of the more obvious bugs in vanilla finally squashed in R05c, and your work is much appreciated. I'll report any more issues as I find them.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3691 on: 2017-06-27 22:58:18 »
Major localization oversight. Charlie Beer just noted that Red sounds different (childlike) the second you reach Cosmo Canyon.  I've had a look at Yuffie and Fort Condor quest - and  now it makes sense why there are 2 sets of Red XIII dialogues there.  One is Red after you reach Cosmo Canyon (child like) and one is before (Red XIII pretending to be an adult).  Basically, up to Cosmo Canyon, Red XIII is putting on an adult persona. That's why Bugenhagen says "You thought he was older?".

This is going to mean significant rewrite / revision of Red.

JBedford128

  • *
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3692 on: 2017-06-27 23:18:32 »
And Gongaga too. Yeah, I don't know you've translated it but Red XIII slips out his natural first person pronoun (オイラ) instead of the one he's been using around the party (私) when he first gets to Cosmo Canyon -- He effectively says "This is オイラ's... no no! This is 私's hometown".

This doesn't really translate, but the official localisation instead goes with "Here is where I was... I mean, ... this is my hometown.". Which doesn't make sense as a thing to say! "Here is where I was born" is true and conveys the same thing!

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3693 on: 2017-06-27 23:41:46 »
Thanks for that!  Yeah... that would be hard to get across.  For a Japanese person, it's obviously a nice way to clue them in to what's going on. Still, we are working on it right now - so I'll be sure to get across the change in how Nanaki talks before and after.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3694 on: 2017-06-30 19:03:05 »
Still not done with battle sfx because not only does it use akao and separate functions - but now it also has another set of play stop pause resume set vol etc set of functions... The Submarine minigame uses them for the warning sound, battle uses them for multiple effects (like Summons / Ultima), which is just yet another duplication.  It's bizarre.  The game is held together with blu-tac.

This is what happens when you don't have a set design from the word go and allow programmers to just do what they want.  Then port team come along and add to the cluster fuck.

edit. 

Well, here's kind of how it works

Field main > subfunctionsA (mainly field)
Battle Main > subfunctionsA and subfunctionsB (Battle only)
subfunctionsB (called directly from submarine (warning sound), very likely others)
SubfunctionsA (called directly from battle)

So you see, Field, Battle, and Other Main are just wrapper functions to be sent to sub functions. Akao (field) wrapper can do everything that the others can from what I can see... but look above... Battle main is a separate wrapper to do things that already exist in Akao (including a function that exists in SubfunctionsB to add effects at the same time). And subfunctions are often called directly without any wrapper.  The wrapper HAS to be used from field.  But from battle and minigames, your guess is as good as mine.  They just did as they saw fit.

What I am getting at is that if used properly, the field akao wrapper that the field module uses could do everything and there was no need for any other wrappers or subfunctionsB.

I don't know if subfunctions B existed in PSX version. I'm thinking like the midi functions, these were added by the porting team.
« Last Edit: 2017-06-30 19:36:27 by DLPB »

August

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3695 on: 2017-07-01 00:22:03 »
That doesn't surprise me. Sorry you have to deal with such a mess.

Some more reports I couldn't find in the database:

60fps battles (I think; have not yet tested Reunion without it) - help window doesn't fade in correctly at the start of a battle
Model Overhaul - Bugenhagen's positioning needs adjustment during his FMV (boogstar.avi), so that the planet energy flows correctly into his sleeve

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3696 on: 2017-07-01 01:29:39 »
I'm aware of the fade issues - it will be a problem with or without 60fps. I'll adjust Bugenhagen when I finally get time.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3697 on: 2017-07-01 05:34:14 »
Anyone out there got a real psx that they could test something for me?  Submarine battle.  Need sound recording of torpedo fire and torpedo exploding.  Both mednafen and epsxe have static with some sfx... and im thinking it's there in the original psx.

it's also there with PC.  I wonder why static would be caused when these were created from adpcm samples in realtime.
« Last Edit: 2017-07-01 05:38:40 by DLPB »

Ansem

  • *
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3698 on: 2017-07-01 14:22:47 »
Unfortunately, I currently don't have any empty CD's on which to burn the proper soundtest modded game, so I couldn't record clean sounds. I recorded a part of the actual Sub minigame though, if it's any help as it is. It's probably not in this case, due to at least two ambient sounds playing throughout, not to mention the alarm which couldn't be avoided either. Still, any comparison is a valid comparison, so here it is.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11008
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3699 on: 2017-07-01 15:52:35 »
That is very much appreciated.

The crackling is there too (5-6 seconds).  So this is an original game error.  With quite a few effects, too.  it's the first time I've been happy that there is a bug there that I can't correct... because after making ~730 effects, that would have been a kick in the teeth.

Just for your info: The sub game uses two ambient water sounds, one warning sound as an effect, one warning sound with echo set as the music (the volume alternates between 0 and positive number), and one sonar sound.
« Last Edit: 2017-07-01 18:01:10 by DLPB »