Author Topic: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.  (Read 8041 times)

DLPB_

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Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« on: 2013-10-18 23:01:49 »
Yes, I could keep this to the Reunion thread but then none of you buggers would see it!

The issue is this.  Reno (or Leno if you want it proper) has a quirk with his speech.  Quirks like it were used in the other titles and localised accordingly (Wakka uses "Ya", Raijin uses "Ya know" for example).

Reno uses something like "Yo" "to" and  "zo"  which doesn't mean anything, it is just a quirk.  Now, I need to localise this into some form of quirk that will work with a western audience.

I chose

Yeh (yeah)
Eh (as in What do you want, eh?)
and Heh.

However, Covarr tells me that "Eh" is not really used all that much in America and is seen as Canadian.  If this is the case, perhaps we need a rethink on how best to add this quirk to FF7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh

Let's look at a few:

Leno
“Never mind.
  C'mon, back to work,
  back to work, eh.”

Leno
“Don't trample on
  the flowers… yeh?”

Leno
“Drink up, Rude! How long
  have we been a team, eh?”
“Being a Turk's tough at times,
  but after all's said and done,
  I'm glad to be one.”
“And I got to meet a bunch
  of weirdos like you, heh.”

The speech quirk does not need 3 variants, but I would go with 2 to mix it up.  Or, do you think the current way works fine.

Let me know, and give me some ideas.


« Last Edit: 2013-10-18 23:24:14 by DLPB »

Rundas

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #1 on: 2013-10-18 23:04:03 »
Covarr's right, eh is definitely seen as Canadian here.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #2 on: 2013-10-18 23:06:49 »
That's a problem.  I've used Eh all over the place (around 64 times) because in Britain  it is used for "huh"  and "huh" is seen more like "What?"  Although it can be both.

Are there any other ways of saying "What are you doing,eh" other than huh?  Original FF7 does use eh?  but only very rarely.

Code: [Select]
  making his appearance, eh?”
  lights are on upstairs, eh?”
  this dude's a bit weird, eh?”
  back to work, eh.”
  Hmm? You like that, eh?”
  So, you want the Keystone, eh?
“A friend too, eh?
  step by step. Eh, eh, eh!?”
“New life, eh?”
  Incredible, eh?”
  guys to get you, eh?”
  his trace here too, eh?
“A Soldier, eh? Haw, haw,
  of yours, eh? Liar!”
“Bet that's news to you, eh?”
  ye want {CLOUD} back too, eh?”
  save the planet, eh?”
“No point hidin' it now, eh?”
  have the Highwind for, eh?”
“Midgar, eh?”
  …But, eh, dinnae blame me
“Pays off in the end, eh?”
“So you're in the same boat, eh?
  Don't take it personally, eh?”
“Hope, eh?”
“Hope, eh?”
  could come true, eh?”
  A know-it-all, eh?”
  Think the army's a joke, eh?”
“Combining materia, eh?
“{CLOUD}, eh? I'm…”
“Shin-Ra soldiers, eh?”
  go an' make noo, eh…?”
  friend that bad, eh?”
“{TIFA}'s childhood friend, eh!?
  Something to look forward to, eh? ♥”
“Tough times, eh, pops?
  secret from {BARRET}, eh?”
“So that's Soldier's big secret, eh!?”
  What a blast, eh?”
“5 gil, eh?”
“Vitamin snake-oil, eh?
“Stamina supplements, eh?
“Muscle ointment, eh?
“You know about that, eh?
“Oh, too much for you, eh?
“Why doncha say somethin', eh!?”
“Nice village, eh?”
“The village, eh?”
  Not as slim as you look, eh?”
  linked of late, eh?”
  goes, eh?”
“What are you doin', eh?
“‘Missing’, eh!?”
“You're working hard too, eh!?”
“An unconditional surrender, eh?”
  with all that bleepin', eh!?”
“Heh! The cool type, eh!?
  so spoiled, eh?”
  have we been a team, eh?”
“If you knew, then get lost, eh?
  at making a run for it, eh?”
  out of each others way, eh?”
  a close one, eh?”
« Last Edit: 2013-10-18 23:11:27 by DLPB »

Rundas

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #3 on: 2013-10-18 23:09:19 »
I can't think of anything besides being corny and using something like bro which is kinda out of place.

Covarr

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #4 on: 2013-10-18 23:17:46 »
They were gibberish sounds originally, yes? Why not psh, tsh, and tch? Gets that distinctive manner of speech across, doesn't mess with meaning at all.

luksy

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #5 on: 2013-10-19 02:21:46 »
Not technically gibberish as it could be inferred as "like I say / said", or "y'know", although it's basically a mannerism for him.

Japanese ffdic gives two possible origins, although neither are substantiated: one is a strategy guide for Solomon's Key that uses the expression countless times, the other is this guy who apparently spoke like that in the 80s

http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%A5%AD%A5%E3%A5%E9%A5%AF%A5%BF%A1%BC%2F%A1%DA%A5%EC%A5%CE%A1%DB

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #6 on: 2013-10-19 11:53:36 »
A note on this "eh" business.  The original localization used it right at the start of the game.

Quote
{CLOUD}
“…{CLOUD}.”
------------------------------
Biggs
“{CLOUD}, eh? I'm…”

and

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/197344-finalfantasy10/faqs/43142

FF8 uses it around 14 times  (counting only main characters), 3 by Zell, 3 by Seifer, 4 by Irvine.
FF9 uses it around 20 times through game, 4 of them by Zidane.
FF10 uses it all way through the game (30 times).  Especially from Wakka.

Breath of fire III uses it 79 times (continually through game by main characters).

The only occurrence I could find in Metal Gear Solid was this one by Liquid:
Quote
Sleeping late as usual, ...eh Snake?

A punk in the Terminator even uses it "Nice night for a walk, eh?"


Whether it is seen as Canadian or not, it seems it is fair game for localization (especially given a main character continually uses it in numerous games).

Our localization uses it 68 times. 12 by Reno.

Some of the 68 may need to be cut down a little.  But not much, really.  There doesn't seem to be any real rule against using "eh" basically, even by Square.

« Last Edit: 2013-10-19 14:13:53 by DLPB »

Rundas

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #7 on: 2013-10-19 17:24:09 »
It depends on the context. It is commonly used in America at the end of a sentence after a comma, used as kind of an invitation for input from the person you are talking to, whereas Canadians use it kind of like slang that doesn't really mean anything. It is fairly acceptable to use eh in this case.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #8 on: 2013-10-19 17:54:57 »
It depends on the context. It is commonly used in America at the end of a sentence after a comma, used as kind of an invitation for input from the person you are talking to, whereas Canadians use it kind of like slang that doesn't really mean anything. It is fairly acceptable to use eh in this case.

Yeah from what I am reading, it is fairly common across the board (Africa, Britain, North America, Australia)for sentences to invite questions with "eh" but Canadians use it all over the place which is where this parody thing has come from.  In any case, given that it is widespread through FF and other games, I'll be using it.  If people don't like it they can just do a search replace on ,eh? for ,huh?

If other games had been severely restricted in its use, I definitely would have opted against it.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-19 17:58:05 by DLPB »

cmh175

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #9 on: 2013-10-19 22:25:42 »
I'm from DC and use eh quite a bit. I may not enunciate it the same way Canadians do, or Americans do while making fun of Canadians, but I'd say it's still common enough in the States. Granted I'm half Irish so could be a family thing.

I think it works better than anything else it could be replaced with at least.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #10 on: 2013-10-19 23:01:56 »
That settles it then.  It's Ehre to stay.

nfitc1

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #11 on: 2013-10-20 01:44:34 »
I'm not sure there is an American equivalent that's universal to regional slangs. Something like "ya hear?" would be close. Trying to get the point across that he thinks that what he's saying is important enough to listen to, but he's arrogant enough to explicitly point it out at the end of all his sentences. I believe that's what excessive uses of the "yo" in Japanese says about a person's character.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #12 on: 2013-10-20 18:12:41 »
I've also asked Alexander O. Smith about this and he says it is up to the localiser.  He said whatever works best is ok, as long as it isn't used stereotypically like a Canadian would, and fits a character.  He uses it too.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #13 on: 2013-10-21 23:39:51 »
Hello it's me again.  This is the last time I'll use this thread.  We have a new problem.

1 character in the game speaks in a foreign accent.  I think Luksy said it sounded kind of Chinese.    Anyone here have any ideas what kind of foreign dialect we can use?  Australian perhaps? What would work good in game for this very small part at Midhir (Mideel)?

mystery_editor

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #14 on: 2013-10-23 10:20:14 »
What accent are we presuming everything is speaking in in your retranslation? British English? US English?

Australian middle-class (ie not "throw an'tha shrip on th' barbie, mate!", but more still a little casual) would be a decent fit if it's British, but US, maybe it'd be Canadian? It's difficult to do text-based either way...

(But if Australian is decided, I'm happy to localise that :P)

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #15 on: 2013-10-23 15:39:22 »
Well the localization can be changed to American spellings with option sooo.   But it needs to be something that both audiences will know.  Australian (or any major dialect) would work out OK.

The passages that need to be updated to a new dialect are:

Quote
“Welcome.
  My shop of tranquillity and rest
  is needed now more than ever.
  How may I be of service?”
------------------------------
“We're low on stock,
  but please come again.”

and

Quote
“Welcome to my shop
  of tranquillity and rest.
  How may I help you today?”
------------------------------
“Thank you!
  Please come again.”
------------------------------
“Welcome to my shop
  of tranquillity and rest.
  At least it would be,but…”{NEW}
“…that customer over there
  has taken everything.
  I've got nothing left.”
------------------------------
“…Hehe! Only joking!
  Now,what can I do for you?”

Hellbringer616

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #16 on: 2013-10-23 17:03:20 »
I'd say take a gander at Advent children Complete. I personally think they did a good job keeping Reno's character intact.

My two cents, wouldn't the Canadian be more of an ay (think The Fonz) rather then eh? i always though of eh making a short E sound. So Reno saying Eh would be fairly accurate. "Eh.. What do you mean Rude?" for example or "eh! you're stepping on the flowers" i think it is very American to use "eh" in the beginning of a sentence. So i think you just have it backwords.

I do agree with Covarr about pft, and tch.

Not sure if my advice is worth anything. But hey, cant hurt :P

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #17 on: 2013-10-23 18:33:52 »
Advent ignored the quirk in the English ( absolutely awful localization "Dilly dally shilly shally" lmao!) because no one would have got it given the original game ignored it. In fact in the correct translation of Advent, Tifa says (while on the phone with Leno I think) "Oh, I remember you 'zo to'!" taking the mick out of his quirk.  This was completely left out of the English version.

The Japanese with subtitles seemed good but not sure if that was on the DVD.  Advent did a good job of showing what the characters are supposed to be like if you use the Japanese voices.  The mannerisms were spot on.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-24 00:47:03 by DLPB »

Covarr

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #18 on: 2013-10-23 23:36:22 »
Why not "get it" and "got it" (and maybe "gotcha" for a third)? It fits at the ends of sentences, it means roughly the same thing... and it nicely ties into his KH doppelgänger Axel (Got it memorized?) without actually sacrificing accuracy.

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #19 on: 2013-10-24 00:09:28 »
Well whatever we use, "eh" by ordinary characters has been cut down and now stands at 14. Leno as he stands is at 13.   

So down from 60+ eh to around 30.  Which is perfectly acceptable.

Rundas

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #20 on: 2013-10-24 17:53:06 »
So much discussion before changing anything, I love it. Great quality control.

Covarr

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #21 on: 2013-10-24 18:57:11 »
So much discussion before changing anything, I love it. Great quality control.
Not so much "anything". This particular issue has been a real source of contention. A lot of stuff has been changed with little-to-no discussion, if only because it was obvious what it was supposed to be, or because there's only one correct translation.

Rundas

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #22 on: 2013-10-24 19:48:40 »
Good job regardless  :-P

DLPB_

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Re: Need Input. Final Fantasy VII Retranslation.
« Reply #23 on: 2013-10-24 21:12:46 »
A lot of the discussion that has happened (nearly all of it) has been between me and Luksy behind the scenes and that's over 1000 questions total...   Like Covarr said, most of it you can get a handle on, but I am not an American so I have had to consult him on that, and grammar wise he's the one I go to with an issue.  What I need now is another Japanese speaker who knows FF7 to go through everything and bring up anything they disagree with.

That way it will be as good as it is likely to get.  I was reading a lot on Blaustein and me being the main localiser for this game (with Luksy) is probably a good thing.  According to him when you have 1 person overseeing everything you get a consistent piece of work.  He said the more translators and localisers you have the worse your game is going to be.