Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f] (Read 3048099 times)

KnifeTheSky77 · « **Reply #1325 on:** 2015-05-19 02:11:41 »

The installer has the capability of retaining the original names/places. --> this part is OPTIONAL. I can see how the names would seem polarizing/strange at first glance but I am getting the vibe that they genuinely don't understand it is optional?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1326 on:** 2015-05-19 02:17:59 »

Quote from: KnifeTheSky77 on 2015-05-19 02:11:41

The installer has the capability of retaining the original names/places. --> this part is OPTIONAL. I can see how the names would seem polarizing/strange at first glance but I am getting the vibe that they genuinely don't understand it is optional?

For some reason, even when told it is, they miss it. Other forums have the same issue despite the whole first post here being linked to. But it would help if people were told it is more often. The Aerith spelling isn't optional because both we and canon agree... so there would still be a lot of moaners about.

KnifeTheSky77 · « **Reply #1327 on:** 2015-05-19 02:40:00 »

That is a real mystery. I wonder if the option in the installer were made obscenely large, it could maybe help some of these folks

Rekhaizen · « **Reply #1328 on:** 2015-05-19 05:17:50 »

Ideally one would read the readme beforehand which I think is more imperative when installing a mod as you want to know exactly what it is changing. And the readme is pretty clear it is, well, an option.

Quote

Options

   ...

   'Series canon'
   Those things which have been consistently named the
same in the series will be unchanged. These are:
   Moogle, Hi-Potion, Megalixir, Phoenix Down, Ramuh.

   Incorrect character names
   Character names will retain their original form (apart
   from 'Aeris', which will always be changed to 'Aerith').

   ...

Not to mention it's hard to miss when selecting which components to install. As condescending as it might sound, I'm not sure there's really any helping those kind of people. Perhaps there's a way to make it more obvious, I don't know.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #1329 on:** 2015-05-19 06:35:00 »

You should have changed her name to Bob; keep 'em guessing.

Edit: Christ, you're not wrong about that Aeris/Aerith thing on the neogaf thread; 9 pages in, and they're still arguing about it.

luksy · « **Reply #1330 on:** 2015-05-19 08:56:24 »

Minor nitpick but Pocket Tissue should be plural, it's a packet of paper tissues used for advertising.

robycop3 · « **Reply #1331 on:** 2015-05-19 13:14:46 »

HI!

I followed your directions to patch "Beacause", downloading the file, extracting the .bat file, but when I dragged/dropped a FFVII iso to it, a command screen came up, vanished when I tried to use it, and nothing further occurred.

If I try dragging/dropping an iso to the .bat file without extracting it, nothing happens.

I am using Windows 7 OS, 64-bit. My FFVII isos are the correct ones. Any suggestions?

Green_goblin · « **Reply #1332 on:** 2015-05-19 13:23:56 »

Quote from: robycop3 on 2015-05-19 13:14:46

HI!

I followed your directions to patch "Beacause", downloading the file, extracting the .bat file, but when I dragged/dropped a FFVII iso to it, a command screen came up, vanished when I tried to use it, and nothing further occurred.

If I try dragging/dropping an iso to the .bat file without extracting it, nothing happens.

I am using Windows 7 OS, 64-bit. My FFVII isos are the correct ones. Any suggestions?

This is the PC thread, I recommend you to use the RHDN forum to ask questions about the PSX version.
The .bat patch worked well for many people, so I don't know what's going on, can you try the .bat file in another PC?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1333 on:** 2015-05-19 14:03:34 »

Also, I am fairly sure the guys there are wrong about Esuna. Poisona doesn't agree with them either. Esuna is S-Na. Poisona is Poison-Na. And that's also how FFX has done things, if I recall (used Null, like us)?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1334 on:** 2015-05-19 15:37:00 »

I'm still a little stuck with this entry too... I don't think "despair" can work because Sep doesn't consider cloud to have feelings. The original Japanese is concern.

So...

Sephiroth
“Do not be concerned.
She will soon be reunited
with the planet's energy.”{NEW}

Reunited is a liberty... but it is what happens. And I think it follows on from not being concerned. But depends on what Luksy thinks about this entry.

Covarr · « **Reply #1335 on:** 2015-05-19 15:47:00 »

Did you copy and paste that? Make sure to correct "reuinted".

"be concerned" is still a feeling. If you want to make it flatter, maybe "Do not concern yourself", which is more about the external action of concern than the internal feeling of concern.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1336 on:** 2015-05-19 18:56:51 »

Nah, haven't changed the files yet so definitely would have picked up on it. I run it through spell checker when I change stuff these days haha.

As for concerned... I'm not sure "concern yourself" feels natural. "Do not be concerned" seems just as valid and flows better? Perhaps "Do not despair" works anyway, if the original is "worry". I mean, it depends how this is meant really...

Water · « **Reply #1337 on:** 2015-05-19 19:20:48 »

More exposure, more unhappy people for something they'll never even play through.
https://boards.4chan.org/vr/thread/2413592

White Wind · « **Reply #1338 on:** 2015-05-19 19:23:49 »

Quote from: Covarr on 2015-05-19 15:47:00

Did you copy and paste that? Make sure to correct "reuinted".

"be concerned" is still a feeling. If you want to make it flatter, maybe "Do not concern yourself", which is more about the external action of concern than the internal feeling of concern.

I agree about the feeling thing. But yeah, I think "Do not be concerned" flows better. But maybe that's not a bad thing if things in Sephiroth's mouth sound a bit less natural ?

And does it have to sound ironical /sarcastic from Sephiroth ? In my ear, Covarr's sentence sounds less ironical /sarcastic (which may be more appropriate ?) and flatter indeed, and more brutal (especially compared to "Don't despair").

"Don't let it worry you" or something like that ? err That sounds sarcastic haha, like a thing a friend of yours could tell you..
English is not my native language, so my perceptions may be off, just saying.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1339 on:** 2015-05-19 19:38:27 »

Quote from: Water on 2015-05-19 19:20:48

More exposure, more unhappy people for something they'll never even play through.
https://boards.4chan.org/vr/thread/2413592

Ah don't worry about that one... I've already read it. Some there seem to be fixated on the now-abandoned Cait Sith mod than anything else. So really, you can get an understanding that their problem isn't with a retranslation but with ANY change at all. Those ridiculous insults at the start make me laugh!

This one is a good one

Quote

You can't honestly try to change "moogle" and keep a straight face when saying the retranslation is better.

He gets the "try to" wrong, as well. I haven't tried to do anything... I have done it. But again, the issue here is that they are not even prepared to READ the thread here to know it is optional. The most illogical thing about this "criticism" is that had Moguri or Mogri or Mogori or even Mole Bat been used from the start, and I came along and made it Moogle... he'd be saying the exact same thing from the opposite end.

Moogle came about because of a mistake. A total mistake.

You really only have 2 options... either you stick to the name (Moguri and variants) or you use the English equivalents, so that a Western audience "get it" (Mole-Bat, Molbat, Molebat). The writer decides this, and until otherwise, the name as it was written takes precedence. Under ANY good localization, Moogle would be dropped.

Also, since when did names really matter THIS much compared to the story and dialogue? Get your head sorted out.

White Wind · « **Reply #1340 on:** 2015-05-19 20:06:11 »

But they don't care about all that

Someone mature would try to know what kind of work and reflection took place behind a word change, what are the reasons, discuss them with you and discuss their arguments too.. or would just shut up, apply Beacause and then fiddle with touphscript themselves.

A single word has changed ? then the work is soo bad, can't be anything else.. Moguri? I already hate the mod.. but yeah, the localisation is too literal (woot?) haha

The guys are satisfied with having opinions that are based on their bias only and nothing else, or just their mood, and with claiming those loud.. what can you do

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1341 on:** 2015-05-19 20:08:12 »

The good news is, this project is not going away. It's here to stay and there are going to be 2 sets of people...

1. Those who are open minded and want to play something that makes sense
2. Those who moan and insult and stay angry

Oh, that thread above is a 4chan... so say no more.

White Wind · « **Reply #1342 on:** 2015-05-19 20:34:34 »

For myself, Final Fantasy really took a big place in my mind and in my heart when I was a kid and a teenager, it meant really a lot for me at that time. That turned out to be like the base of my imagination and some of my feelings too, and now it is somewhat part of my personality.

And you say you've refreshed VII and made it come closer to what it should have been from the start ? what it was meant to be.. closer to the artists' will and project.. then all the greater, really.

And when you think about it, each game being a stand-alone universe, what's the problem then with canon or not.. Nah, give me the true thing please

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1343 on:** 2015-05-19 20:35:54 »

Let's face it... given that the Aerith change is official and still causes a firestorm, this retranslation is like a nuclear bomb to the fanboys.

White Wind · « **Reply #1344 on:** 2015-05-19 20:43:44 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2015-05-19 20:35:54

Let's face it... given that the Aerith change is official and still causes a firestorm, this retranslation is like a nuclear bomb to the fanboys.

Hahaha.. They would call it Flare spell because nuclear bomb is too much of a shift, but yeah xp

obesebear · « **Reply #1345 on:** 2015-05-19 21:32:35 »

The problem with the canon name changes is that the people who are going to be playing this retranslation have already played other FFs, and 99% have played FF7. So everyone is familiar now with what a moogle is, but the word moguri pops up and it immediately takes you out of the story/universe that you already know.

That's why it's great that there's an option to preserve it.

luksy · « **Reply #1346 on:** 2015-05-19 21:46:50 »

At least 4chan didn't descend into 8 pages of Aerith / Aeris. I can see an argument for localizing away some of the more Engrish sounding names, we have made a handful of concessions after all (I remember the Care fiasco). Still that wouldn't include stuff like moguri or Zax of course, and I'm guessing people who don't like those changes aren't going to be happy with anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There still hasn't been a single criticism about the dialogue...sigh.

Covarr · « **Reply #1347 on:** 2015-05-19 22:10:33 »

Quote from: luksy on 2015-05-19 21:46:50

There still hasn't been a single criticism about the dialogue...sigh.

This is twofold. Partly because the dialogue isn't available in an easy-to-read table that doesn't require actually trying the thing, and partly because the dialogue is just fine.

I do think it's a bit incongruous to have literal-translated names paired with localized dialogue, but that's just me. And that's why I tick all the canon options

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1348 on:** 2015-05-19 22:32:31 »

Discussing this on 4chan made me realize why I gave up on all forums, except here... some of those people need jailing and the key throwing away. The arguments are the same old nonsense we've always had:

1. Changing something I grew up with
2. If it ain't broke, don't fix it (off course!)
3. Changing canon (not realizing that canon is not set in stone, nor is it consistent, especially across countries)
4. AERITH!
5. ZENG!
6. YRENA!
7. ZAX!
8. etc

White Wind · « **Reply #1349 on:** 2015-05-19 22:36:47 »

Quote from: obesebear on 2015-05-19 21:32:35

The problem with the canon name changes is that the people who are going to be playing this retranslation have already played other FFs, and 99% have played FF7. So everyone is familiar now with what a moogle is, but the word moguri pops up and it immediately takes you out of the story/universe that you already know.

That's why it's great that there's an option to preserve it.

Yup to each their own. And yeah, you cannot please everyone also.
I too am more familiar with Moogle, Phoenix Down, Sector etc of course, but knowing that Moguri, Phoenix Tail, District are the accurate terms of a whole new (and better) phrasing, that they are part of an entirely revised text, I won't find them out of place, they won't take me out of the game because all is consistent. But that's me.
Some will see those words out of place because their mind sticks with what they are the most familiarised with, and others will see the thing as a whole. Everybody is different, and there's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is the people that don't respect other people's point of view, feelings and the authors' work.