Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: xeriouxi on 2003-11-20 13:50:06
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Hi!
Now, I know that there are ways of extracting the original sounds from the PSX version of FF7. I remember a tool called PSound somewhere that could do something like that... :-?
Anyway, is it at all possible to create an exact replica of the original FF7 sounds to use for MIDI playback via a SoundFont? If so, what software would I need to compile the SoundFont etc. :-?
xeriouxi.
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Just tell me...is there any reason or obstacle preventing anyone from making a soundfont if they have the correct samples? There isn't any other reason than willpower. Mofokubik worked on such a soundfont several a month ago, but he never finished it off (at least to my knowledge). I offered to help him, but he never buckled down and sent me anything.
It sounds like a good idea because most of the samples from ff7psx are better than the ones included with ff7pc. To be completely honest, I would have done this myself a long time ago, but ff7music completely defeats the purpose of doing it. With the midis, you cannot resume the place in the song you were before a battle. With FF7music you can set it to do so (although on slower machines it causes some lag). I also never got ahold of a new version of PSound to rip the samples...and I forget where to get it.
I ripped the steel drum instrument from FF8 once and put it into a soundfont just to try it out. It was quite a bit of work, but it sounded great. I was at a disadvantage because I never had FF8PC, so having the original midis was out of the question. So I'm far more than qualified for doing this.
So to answer your question, I will say "yes, it is possible". I'm also sure there are people here that are willing to help you out if you need it.
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Hi!
OK, now if I have ripped all of the samples, what should I do now? I mean, the end result should be me compiling all of them into one .sf2 file, right? How, exactly? :-?
xeriouxi.
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I'm not going to give you a tutorial for the program. Learn it yourself.
Just do it.
A good utility is the creative's vienna soundfont studio. You can get it from the creative website, Soundblaster.com (http://www.soundblaster.com).
I would suggest just replacing the old samples with newer ones directly; you can do that. There will be a few instruments that will require extreme midi editing (for example, dokubo has a pitch bend for the bassline. hard to do). Good luck, and keep in mind that as long as you work on it a little each day you will slowly make your way towards the end.
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Hi!
Thanks for the link! I'll try my best to make it a success. However, I'm not sure about the file size. :-?
If when I have finished making it the file size is a bit large, then maybe somebody in the UK could have it sent to them via a CD-R if they don't mind and then they could upload it on a broadband connection, maybe? :D
Oh, and sorry if my last post sounded rude in a way. I had about 30 seconds left on the web... :D
xeriouxi.
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Hi!
OK, now if I have ripped all of the samples, what should I do now? I mean, the end result should be me compiling all of them into one .sf2 file, right? How, exactly? :-?
xeriouxi.
heh...you oughta thank "Cloud_Strife" of the VGMusic.com forums for this:
http://www.9999hp.com/~wroget/personal/tutorials.html (http://www.9999hp.com/~wroget/personal/tutorials.html)
While it covers both the SF2 and DLS formats, its still a decent tutorial.
I'm not going to give you a tutorial for the program. Learn it yourself.
Well, at least now you don't have to... :P
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Hi!
I don't think that I can do this, actually... :-?
It looks too hard. Firstly, I only have about 70 samples from the PSX FF7. I'm sure there's more. Secondly, I can't grasp how you're meant to make them into instruments, add the other instruments, call the instrument from a MIDI file etc. :o
Good luck if somebody wants to try, though! :D
xeriouxi.
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i can host them
i have 200meg x2 space online to host it
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Hi!
Thanks, but I really can't continue with it. There are too many different things to do and I get lost with them all. I thought it would be a bit of a challenge, but it's now too much of one... :weep:
Anyway, maybe someday somebody will develop one... who knows? :wink:
xeriouxi.
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My soundfont is finished, but since alot of the banks I made are new (I didn't use most of the psx samples, most of them were crap) I gotta remake some....most....all, of the midi files then make a patch, then my beautiful creation will have life!
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Hi!
That's great! Well done! You must have a lot of talent to have completed the soundfont! Is re-creating the MIDI files difficult to do? I think that is where I will have slipped up if I had created a SoundFont. How big is the SoundFont file, exactly? Keep everyone posted on your progress if you decide to finish it! I know that everyone, especially me, will be interested in your progress! Good luck! :wink:
xeriouxi.
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download Audio Compositor (http://audiocompositor.home.att.net) to edit your gm.dls midi bank ;)
I've the ff8 soundfont (20 mo :o ), I can send you some samples if you want... (they are in a very good quality)
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Hi!
How is the progress going with the SoundFont? That is, of course, if you are working on it. If you are, the good luck! I'm sure many members of the board would love to see the SoundFont, like me... probably because you're one of the few people who can actually create it! :lol:
xeriouxi.
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Hey, something just occurred (sp?) to me. Has anyone attempted to adapt Samuel's DLS into something FF7 could use?
For example, we could convert it to sf2, and then use the LGP tools to modify the MIDI files to use the instruments in the file. And because it appears that Samuel set up the DLS to use only the "MSB:Patch#" system that SF2 uses for multiple instrument banks instead of the DLS "MSB:LSB:Patch#" system, all the instruments should be readily accessible after a straight conversion to sf2.
I've been sorta messing around with that idea but never made it a serious project. I'll post a few mp3 examples of how we can adapt the battle theme to work with it..... it'll be awhile, though. I have some errands to do today, and they just might interfere with the mp3-making.
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Well, I finished the errands I had to do, but no thanks to the "powers that be" (read: my parents), I'll have to hold off on uploading the mp3s until tomarrow. -_-
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OK. It's up. I don't have much time right now, so I'll skip the detailed explaination I would normally give, and simply say:
Linkage! (http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/FF7--Samuels_DLS_demos.rar) (Size: 2.91MB) :P
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I like :P
I think there are a few things missing from the Fighting MP3, and the Mako Reactor has an annoying "buzz" at the beginning. But if you or someone else wanted to work on this, that's a good start :P
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I like :P
I think there are a few things missing from the Fighting MP3, and the Mako Reactor has an annoying "buzz" at the beginning. But if you or someone else wanted to work on this, that's a good start :P
Yes, I am aware of that, it was one of the things I was gonna mention about the mako reactor demo, but didn't have time to post any more than I did (parents were kickin' me off at that time).
Now that I have a bit more time to "talk", I can explain the buzz problem. You see, as I don't have SF2 hardware, I had to use Samuel's DLS as it was in Winamp5 (which is awesome, by the way), and for some reason, Winamp can't transmit bank select messages for banks higher than 0 when it comes to DLS stuff, and as a result I was forced to use the Buzz sound.
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omg hey i love them too!
hmm... could someone get these mp3 into the game now? well, although its not a lot of soundfonts, but these 2 is enough for my ears :P
Anyways, thanks Goku7 for doing such a great job! :D
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omg hey i love them too!
hmm... could someone get these mp3 into the game now? well, although its not a lot of soundfonts, but these 2 is enough for my ears :P
Anyways, thanks Goku7 for doing such a great job! :D
Heh....thanks. :D
I should mention that if Winamp would allow me to use the other instrument banks in the DLS file, then in addition to eliminating the buzz in the beginning of the Reactor theme, we could also recover the missing "iron/gong" notes in the battle theme, as well as using the correct French Horn sample....however, since I'm only using Winamp to emulate the output, these issues won't be a problem, as once the file is converted to SF2, FF7 can access the higher banks without much of a problem.
-slightly off-topic here-
Oh, and if anyone else is curious what other MIDI-related work I'm currently doing, I'm in the middle of doing an XG-specific renditition of "Summer Nights", a song written by "Ellhyr" of the VGmusic.com forums...and yes, I did get his permission before starting to work on it. :P By "XG-specific", I mean that its using special Variation Effects (Distortion, Amp Simulation, etc.) that only XG synths can use, to add to the awesomeness that the song already possesses. But that also means that most of the changes can only be heard on an XG synth, with the exception of a patch change on the drum set.
Anyway, here's the linkage, if you're interested:
Summer Nights -- Original GM Version (http://www.vgmusic.com/phpBB2/download.php?id=1597)
Summer Nights -- XG version (http://www.vgmusic.com/phpBB2/download.php?id=1698)
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cant access the files,
maybe need the register?
you dont mind hosting them on your own server?
thanks
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Doh! It seems I've overlooked one of the newer aspects of the VGmusic.com forums. Previously, you didn't have to be logged in to be able to view attachments. Now, its different. I had thought they simply hid the portion of a post that contains the link to the attachment, but still allowed anyone who directly typed in the link to access it. Now it appears its more complicated than that.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and upload a .zip of the two MIDI files on Mirex's Server.
-edit-
Upload done. Linkage here. (http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/Summer_Nights--MIDI_comparison.zip)
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Well, before I start, I'm gonna say this:
I think it's great that everyone loves this game so much that they want to improve the shitty quality PC MIDIs. Good luck to anyone and everyone writing an FF7 SoundFont, I'll definitely try it out when you're done.
Anyway, I worked on a FF7 SoundFont a while ago. I thought it sounded pretty good, but then I realized: I'm just a PC Tech/Programmer with really no knowledge of how to make good music. Nobuo Umatsu is a musical genius. Every last intrument, note, pitch, etc that he put into every one of his pieces was done for a specific reason. I just don't believe that I have the musical ability to create a SoundFont that owns up to Umatsu's original vision. (It's kind of like blasphemy for me, if you will.)
On a side note: I'm playing through FF7 again. I'm using my Soundfont, because I believe it sounds WAY better than the crappy quality ones that come with FF7, and the XG SoftSynth doesn't have the Sephiroth choir . . . I just don't think the SoundFont lives up to Umatsu's original vision.
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So what's wrong with the mp3-rip of the music CDs? AGO put out a BT for it couple weeks ago, though it's dead now.
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So what's wrong with the mp3-rip of the music CDs? AGO put out a BT for it couple weeks ago, though it's dead now.
True, i totally agree. Why not use the mp3s from the CD's?
I've uploaded 3 mps on them, they are the best music for usage for the soundfonts. 1 is the main field theme, another is the aerith theme, the last is the final battle theme i think.
the thing is that they are not design for looping i must say? is that right?
EDIT:
Anyway, finish uploading. the links are below.
http://ff7resources.tripod.com/aeriththeme.mp3
http://ff7resources.tripod.com/maintheme.mp3
http://ff7resources.tripod.com/onewingedangel.mp3
right click and save as please. cheers. ;)
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Hi!
I haven't heard the samples yet... but I'm sure that they are very good! :D
Anyway... how will the SoundFont being made (if there is one being made) be the original if a lot of the instruments have been scrapped? It would be nice to have a 100% original one, too... but I suppose that's me being a miserable person to people who do a lot of hard work... sorry! :(
xeriouxi.
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Firstly the XG enhanced midi Goku7 is a hell lot better to listen to on the ears :)
that song is a long repition, that would drive anybody mad, but the XG one is nicer by far.
2ndly I do not like to see MP3s directly linked here :evil:
3rdly Neither do tripod :D I should know, you probably have problems downloading that one.
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Hmm, I can't get those links to work. Anyway, yeah, I don't think you should directly link to MP3s from the CD here.
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Aaron your on fire, I have to say whats that 5 posts in 5 minutes, Im trying to play catch up...
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Firstly the XG enhanced midi Goku7 is a hell lot better to listen to on the ears :)
that song is a long repition, that would drive anybody mad, but the XG one is nicer by far.
Thanks. That's been just about the first piece of feedback I've recieved on that song from anyone with an XG synth, lol.
I suppose it can be repetitive. Actually, the newest version is gonna have a pick slide near the end, but I'd also prefer to somehow get it recorded to mp3.....I swear, the irony of my situation makes me feel that I've been PWNED in this regard (the XG synth that exists physically on my card is not considered a recording source....usually you only run into that if the XG device is software). :P
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i think tripod deleted those mp3s. i will find a better server to upload them. Sorry if u dun like mp3s linked here..
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What do you think is the purpose of a "perfect" soundfont?
Should it simply sound like the PSone original and fix all the errors of the current release or increase the overall instrument sample quality?
The sound driver in the PlayStation version is not too great (I know it's a first generation title), sounds very synthy to me.
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Hi!
What I mean is that it should be identical as much as possible to the PSX version of FFVII... the way it was meant to sound! :D
xeriouxi.
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Don't get your hopes up. I know that creating a soundfont is a lot of work and I haven't done it before. But I'm willing to learn and will try my best to enhance the music.
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Hi!
Right then... firstly I will need the original instruments used in the PSX version of FFVII. I have PSound to rip these... but there only seems to be about 70-80 if my memory serves me correctly. Is this right? :-?
xeriouxi.
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There are 74 instruments in the main bank and 6 choir samples. Most of the main instruments are very, very, very short. It should be the complete user sample collection of the PlayStation sound driver, but it's only 3 MB. Even the...well...let's call it "good" soundfont ff7.sf2 is 5 MB and the choir samples are not included.
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Yes, i think there are about 74 instruments in the main bank and 6 choir samples. These six really sound great, but most of the main instruments are very, very, very short. It should be the complete user sample collection of the PSX sound driver, but it's only 3 MB. 3 MB? Even the ... well ... let's call it "good" soundfont ff7.sf2 is 5 MB and the choir samples are not included in it.
Actually, the "good" ff7.sf2 soundfont that FF7pc was packaged with is 4mb, not 5....but that's just a technicality.
Anyway, don't diss the size of the PSX soundset. Bigger does not always equal better. The PSX samples are meant to be infinitely looped during sustained notes, and that's why they are so short. That is also why the size is small. Now, if you want instruments that have a sampled release in them, then the current samples are insufficient. But you can still mimic that type of release by using the short samples and messing with their ADSR envelope values -- particularly the "Decay" value, if memory serves.
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Will have to see which method sounds better.
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but u know i always thought the psx version was sounding more tinny and lower quality then FF7pc with a decent sized soundfont (50+meg) or yamahaXG.
Im not sure sounding like the psx version is really "perfect"
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That's the issue I wanted to point out.
A prime example is "chu.mid" ("Fight On!") with the Yamaha XG SoftSynthesizer. It just sounds one hell of a lot better than with the PlayStation sound driver.
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Hi!
When I said the 'perfect' SoundFont... I meant perfect in duplication from the PSX to the PC. :D
As for the 'Decide the future of FFVII' poll for the SoundFonts... well the XG MIDI has been made... so how can that be deciding the future when it exists already? :-?
xeriouxi.
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well the soundfonts are close to psx already? they actually sound better though. the psx has less polyphono i feel
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@xeriouxi: The problem is that the XG midi driver doesn't have the chorus in "One-Winged Angel" and I'm not exactly willing to play it without.
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cant we hack XG to be able to patch it in realtime memory and place the soundbanks we need, and make a custom OWAngel midi?
just a thought
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cant we hack XG to be able to patch it in realtime memory and place the soundbanks we need, and make a custom OWAngel midi?
just a thought
You mean the XG midi files, or the XG synth itself? If its the latter, you'll need to be able to hack the "sgpwav00.tbl" and "sxgwave2.tbl" files (in the case of the S-YXG70 at least, the XG50 seems to have differently-named files), as these are the files that should most likely contain the XG instrument samples/data.
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Heh, that'd be really cool... my current strategy is...
- Use the S-YXG50 for the entire game.
- Use the soundfont when I fight the last boss.
I dunno if it would be possible to add the voices to the S-YXG tbl file, but if anyone would like to try ... :P
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Heh, that'd be really cool... my current strategy is...
- Use the S-YXG50 for the entire game.
- Use the soundfont when I fight the last boss.
I dunno if it would be possible to add the voices to the S-YXG tbl file, but if anyone would like to try ... :P
All I can tell you about that, is that my version of Awave Studio (version 7.3) can't decode the files....perhaps the newer versions can?
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I've listened to all the midis and figured out what sounds different from the PlayStation version. I'll get started on it soon.
@others: As far as I know it is not possible to change or add instruments to the table files - whether it's the S-YXG70 or the S-YXG50.
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Not that this is at all relevant, but I updated the FF7 For SBLive! page (not the SoundFont, just the web page) recently.
I just figured I'd mention it because there was talk about writing a SoundFont loading FAQ for Win2k/XP a while back, and I'd totally forgotten I had instructions on that page until now . . .
Anyway, you can access it here:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/somedude41/
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Gah, haven't been here in awhile, just saw this thread and had to respond. I tried to get ahold of rubicant to get the newest version but I just can't seem to find him. I have a little older version of the ff7 soundfont I was working on if you want it message me. Someone other than me can finish it, seeing as how now I have a fulltime job to go along with school so barely any time to do anything other than eat sleep and shit. Gah, I just got home from work and I already have to sleep and start the meaningless cycle all over again. Anyway what's done is pretty far along, just some missing instruments and the need for the midi files to be a little rearranged. I still wish I could get ahold of rubi, he has the version with like 8 more instruments along with around 15 midi files completed. Bah!
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Wow. I've totally been ignoring the Game Tweaking forum. This topic caught my eye. I've just upgraded to WinXP so I haven't had time - or the enegy - to install FF7 and mess around with patching and soundfonts and using the usless Audigy software in XP.
Yeah, Viena is cool. I've experimented with some soundfonts I use for all midis. Sounds amazing but they're ending up around 140MB though...
I'd love to see a Samuel's For FF7. I had started playing FF8 before I realised about the SF system in FF7 so I was using the XG SoftSynth. The FF8 Timber SF was what got me interested in the whole SF world. I was using the Timber SF in combination with a few all purpose SFs and FF7 was sounding beautiful.
::stares at his copy of FFX-2 PAL, waiting for college to be over:: Must...play.
I'll definately be checkin back here for updates. Oh and I have to listen to the samples from this thread when I get home.
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Hi!
I just found out that I haven't got a compatible sound card to use the .sf2 files anymore! :weep:
Is there some way of creating a .dls for it, too? Isn't it possible to somehow put the .psf files into the midi.lgp archive and merge the in_psf.dll system into it? :-?
xeriouxi.
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SF2 can be converted to DLS, but it wouldn't make a big difference.
Ficedula's FF7Music lets you replace the midis with MP3 files or the PSF set.
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Correct me if I'm wrong (be brutal) but doesn't the FFMusic program support WinAmp plugins? Would Highly Experimental work with FFMusic? Never tried FFMusic myself.
-Dan
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Soundfonts are more user friendly, that's why I settled for them. Another reason is that FF7Music keeps crashing, never really got this to work on my machine.
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Hi!
That is one of the reasons for creating the .sf2 file. This is no way intended to knock Ficedula's hard work. His program is great... but it doesn't work on some people's computers and it can be slow at loading in the .psf file to play whilst you are playing the game. :D
Anymore? :-?
So you did previously? :D
It's possible to convert a sf2 to a dls file, although I'm not able to.
Not quite sure your second suggestions is also feasible... If it was it'd be very difficult... -_- "
Heehee! I did have, yes. I don't anymore since I have my new PC. I'm not allowed to bring the one from my old PC forward as my dad doesn't want me to... probably fearing that I'll break it! Not that I would... but parents are like that... especially since it's a present and I didn't pay for it! :lol:
As for my second suggestion... you never know, eh? :wink:
xeriouxi.
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Finished the soundfont.
But there's a small obstacle to overcome: Whenever I try to replace midis in awe.lgp at a file size of 1,75 MB, LGPTools freezes and creates a 1,31 GB file. :o
Now, what could this be? Is there a size limit for the lgp files? Can I solve this problem by creating a new lgp?
EDIT: Apparently, it's a bug in the replacement code. It doesn't happen when I create a new archive from all the midi files.
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Hi!
Did you say... 1.3Gb!? Yikes! groupz... what did you do! :lol:
As for a cure... has Ficedula got a more recent version of the LGP program? :-?
xeriouxi.