FF7 problems

[dgp9999]

I've just installed FF7 on my new system and FF7 freezes after 2 minutes perhaps. Battle, field, or world map it all crashes. I wonder if it's AMD (Athlon XP Palomino 1700+) problem or to do with Detonator 14.10. I encounted a similar problem with my PIII, I can't remember which drivers I was using though. Yes, installed the nVidia patch and unchecked the nVidia box. Which drivers do you lot use with GeForce 2, FF7 and FF8?

-Dan

[Darkness]

try a full install. worked or me.

[Threesixty]

FF8 was developed....Okay it was really patched....for the 6.50 drivers. I think it's the only ones that really work with FF8 (haven't done very much experimentation with that). FF7 was never supposed to run with Geforce....but we discovered that the TNT patch allowed Geforces to play FF7 in Hardware mode.....and at the time of the discovery...it was with the old 6.50 drivers.

FF7 should run Okay with the 12.41's, but the 8bit test thing needs to fail, before it can be successful. The 6.50 drivers are the easiest to use with FF7. (Use Rivatuner to force the 8bit pallet off....I think it's off by default on the 12.41's, but not certain.)

But, the Riva box need to be checked in the FF7config.exe program. with either of the other two other boxes checked....I use the TNT one (For hardware accelertion). Also, the patched, FF7.exe, needs to be in place. They say you should configure the FF7config first, then copy the FF7.exe over. I never bothered to test that.

World Map crashes used to be caused because of a lack of V-memory.....Should need no higher than 500megs (depends on how much RAM you have....500 for 'about' 32meg systems....old recommended specs.) Doubt that's a problem 'nowadays', but I would say you need to keep at least 200 megs of V-ram open.

Crashes during battles could be a soundcard problem, or a video overheating problem....(I doubt it's a video overheat problem...that's what used to cause the freezes...back in the V2 days). I would lean more towards the Soundcard.....what are you using?

I hear FF7 has problems with DX8.1, don't know if your using 8.1. Try turning down the DirectX Sound Acceleration to basic. Type Dxdiag in the run menu of windows. Go to the Sound Tab...and move the slider bar to Basic....change it back when your done....or if it doesn't help. You don't need to reboot for it to take effect.

And Full install is always recommended....if it won't do a full install (gives you an error), your problem is that the disk or disks are bad.

FF7PC is really a lost cause, on these newer systems/OS's. It barely worked in hardware mode, when it first came out, about 3 years ago (voodoo2 was the only way to go, back then, FF7 worked very well with the voodoo2) It's gotten harder to get it running with these newer systems, a lot harder. (If your computer was in front of me....I probably could get it going....but it's sooooo hard to do it over the web, with suggestions.

By the way....what OS are you using? Win98SE works with FF7. Win95 with a Voodoo2, worked the best with this old fossel of a port.

Does it crash in Software mode?
[edited] 65 2001-12-21 07:03

[edited] 65 2001-12-21 07:06

[dgp9999]

Yep, crashes in Software, Win98SE, SBLive! 1024 Player, GeForce 2 Pro, 14.10, FF8 works fine with 14.10, FF7 used to work fine with some driver which I can't remember. The crash is the same type in world map and battles. I've been using NVmax to touch my card up. I've got RivaTuner but somehow, it's weird, it tells me that I'm running 1x2 AA when I have it on Auto. It's probably the drivers. If I check Riva or TNT the game loads with a black screen for a second then crashes to the desktop.

How should I set my V (I take it you're talking about Virtual Memory) -Memory? I've got it on Recommended at the moment. Doesn't this create a file about 64mb called win386.swp?
It seems that I'm being branded as a newbie spammer. Hmm. I should try other forums. No, this is the best, people actually know stuff here.

-Dan

[Anonymous]

it was previously said that ur virtual ram has to be at least 350MB...or i will crash on reachign the world map..but I'm not sure...threesixty is the expert on this..

[dgp9999]

Even with 512mb DDR RAM, will I still need 350mb V-Memory.
I can reach the World Map for a couple o' minutes. So, I shouldn't set my v-memory to recommend? What shall I put to Minimum and Maximum?

-Dan

[Threesixty]

Ok....the black screen thing is part of your problem.

I'll re-state what I stated somewhere else.

If the 8 bit pallett thing is active (on) and you use the FF7.exe from the TNT patch, you will get a black screen.....and  probably a moveable curser (that is what my system does.) That is why I said that the 8 bit test must say 'FAIL'  on the FF7config.exe. (And I mean before you hit the Riva button. It'll says '---' when and if you select it. It will 'always' says '---' when it's selected......)  All the Det drivers can work with FF7, as long as you can disable the 8 bit pallettization. The Test must say, 'Fail'. I have had other problems with the new 23.11 driver and FF7. The speed of FF7 was out of wack with the newest drivers. the 21.83's seem to run fine......



The solution....Get Rivatuner. make sure that it is using the correct database. (The database is the heart of Rivatuner).....inside the Poweruser section. On the very bottom, click on the second button on the left......if it gives you an error, of cannot find correct database, loading closest match...something like that. Then you need to get online and download a newer version of Rivatuner....if you can find it. The site that used to host Rivatuner, is gone.....the site I knew about, anyway. The Russan site still has it....but I can't read Russan.


For more detailed directions for Rivatuner:
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?topic=727&forum=3&16

The link to the program is broken...the guy who made the page, got tired of doing it....so he quit. So his web site is off the air.

If you don't want to go through all of the above.....just use the 6.50 drivers. Those "should" work fine....or at least say, "it's not the video drivers fault, that the game crashes.....its something else". FF8 and FF7 work fine with the old 6.50's.

From my experience the 14.10's work with FF7, as long as the 8bit test Fails....but it works just as good as the old 6.50's once you  get it to fail that 8 bit test of FF7config.



As far as V-ram.....just set it to about 200 through 400. I have 256megs of ram and I have mine set at 400megs. min and max. (As long as you set the upper and lower limits, the same...you won't lose any performance. Just experiment.....off the top of my head...use 300.)

My system is simular to yours.....just a little older and slower
SBlive card
1.2 Athlon Rev.C (266fsb)
MSI K7t Turbo-R
MSI 64meg Geforce 2 Pro. (don't think it's really a Pro....but it says it  is when it boots.)
Currently have the 21.83 drivers loaded, with the 8 bit pallettization deactiated in the DirectX7.0 setting of Rivatuner...and FF7 runs fine....the side games run fast...but no crashes or any serious graphic glitches.

[edited] 65 2001-12-21 23:17

[edited] 65 2001-12-21 23:19

[edited] 65 2001-12-21 23:26

[Sukaeto]

Run 'drwatson.exe' before you start FF7.  When FF7 crashes, Dr. Watson should catch it and create a report of everything that was going on with your system when the crash happened, including a description on what the crash was and a possible reason why it happened.

Get it to crash two or three times running Dr. Watson to make sure the crash is always caused by the same thing, then copy and paste that description of the crash into this thread.

. . . If it's an Invalid page fault, something like that is usually caused by a device driver (probably the video driver)

Like Three said, either the 6.50's or the 12.41's work best.  (I've actually had better luck with the 12.41's in FF7 & 8 than with the 6.50's.)

I know FF7 can run in hardware mode without the TNT patch (at least in Win2K/XP)  if you're using the 12.41's and have 8 bit paletted texture support turned on.  (you can use a third party utillity such as Riva Tuner to turn this feature on/off).  You may want to try that with your 14.10's.

[Threesixty]

If you do keep the 8 bit thing active....you can't use the FF7.exe from the TNT patch.....Black Screen Crash.

[Sukaeto]

Hmm . . . I'm almost postative I did in Win2K . . .

Are you sure you're unchecking the TNT box?  (I remember it crashing if I left THAT checked and had 8 bit textures enabled.)

[dgp9999]

I've done all what you've said and I'm baffled. The main question of this was "Does FF7 have any known problems with AMD, especially the Palomino?"
It's not:
Virtual memory
Fast Writes
Drivers

Its either AMD being AMD or dodgy harddisk being dodgy harddisk. I've had problems with my harddisk in the past. Many formats, changing of cluster size, cross-linked files, etcetera etcetera. My next buy will be an IBM harddrive/Norton Ghost.

I just got Windows XP Pro and I thought this would solve some problemos and it gets to the point of analysing my computer when it does the same freeze as it does in FF7.

Here's some other info:
Games that work:
Final Fantasy VIII
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction
Don't work:
Final Fantasy VII
Deus Ex

The games that don't work have the same kind of lock-up which occurs on the XP Setup. It's a freeze which I cannot, ALT+CTRL+DEL out of, the keyboard seems to not respond. I haven't tested if I can press Num Lock yet. All I can do is press Reset. That's why I cannot give you the Dr. Watson info.

You people here are a lot more experienced than me. The people who I work with at PC World take the mickey for having an AMD, so I can't rely on them.

Merry Christmas everyone, have a good one.

-Dan

[edited] 265 2001-12-24 21:36

[ficedula]

I'm almost certain the CPU won't make a difference. The only CPU specific features FF7 uses that I know of is the RDTSC instruction which Cyrix CPU's didn't support, but that was all, and all modern CPU's support that fine. It ran fine on later AMD's that it didn't recognise (K6II, K6III, Athlon...), so I *doubt* it's the CPU, though you never can rule stuff out 100% with PC's...

More likely, it's your PC in general. Sometimes, programs just won't run on your particular configuration, and it *is* specific to your particular setup. Annoying but true.

[CKtalon]

no problems for me with Athlon XP...

FF7 and 8 runs on Windows XP
The most important factor should be thje gfx card and drivers that prevent pple from able to play FF7 and 8...and as threesixty has mentioned, certain drivers work with certain games only..

[dgp9999]

I thought I would install another game to test me setup. Monkey Island 4 infact. The game done the same crash as the other games. This game comes with a nifty analyze proggy. The required CPU frequency is "200". Mine is apparentely "0".

Some more crashed occured when zipping the Diablo II Soundtrack using Winzip. Another when converting some WAVs to MP3s using MusicMatch Jukebox.

-Dan

[Anonymous]

Message.

[dgp9999]

I'm not going to stress my CPU if that is the problem.
Jari, do you think it's my CPU?

-Dan

EDIT: Will the bugs in the CPU Stability Test harm my computer?
[edited] 265 2001-12-26 20:20

[Threesixty]

Your not....accidently....or purposely, Overclocking your CPU/Front side bus?

And do you know what temp. that CPU is running at?

 
The temperature can usually be found in the bios. But usually the motherboard comes with software that does realtime temps in windows.


If you bought the comp. pre-built....the crashes could be from anything. From an overclocked CPU (which would be a scam), to a bad stick of Ram.  I don't know of any programs that actually tell you what speed the CPU is supposed to run at. Maybe someone else does. The only way I know how to tell the difference is to look at the writing on the chip itself (but you have to remove that stubborn heatsink to see it). Maybe someone else knows a program, that can tell you if the Chip is overclocked. Then again, maybe you shouldn't worry too much about that....Temps are far more important. If everything is in order (not a scam) I would suspect a bad stick of Ram as the cause of the crashes. Then look into the Powersupply, then the motherboard itself. If you just bought it pre-built......tell them it's broke and get a replacement.

A Bad Stick of Memory and a weak Power Supply Unit are the number one causes of Athlon unstability  (Intel too, for that matter)..... a bad motherboard takes a good thirdplace.

(you just need to check if the Powersupply is a namebrand, and that it's at least 300Watts, AMD's website has a list of Powersupplies that they recommend at their site. As long as you see the brand name on the site, the PSU should be Okay. As for the RAM....you have to try another stick of ram and see if the problem vanishes. If you have two stick installed already....try them one at a time. If one of them is bad, you'll know.


You have to remember....that games built today, stress the Videocard more than anything else. Games of yesterday put more stress on the computer (CPU/memory) than the videocards (Videocards just weren't all that powerful, back then).


As far as stressing the CPU......As long as the temps stay under 55C. You won't hurt anything.......You don't want to ever see it go into the 60's C. Anything in the 30C range is considered, "running cool". Anything in the 40C range is considered "running a little hot". 50's are considered  "HOT". Anything above 60 means....."TURN IT OFF, QUICK!" and get a better heatsink and Fan...or a better case. The bios and/or third party temp. software will tell you the CPU temp and the Case temp.....You really want the Case temp to be the same as the temp in your room or as close to it as possible. If it's very high from the room temperture, you need a better case, or need to add CaseFans to your case. (or you need to take the cover off, if your real strapped for cash)

[dgp9999]

I ran the CPU Stability Test. It ran for 3 minutes 18 seconds on Standard. I ran Troublesooting mode, Peripheral test ran fine. Cache test ran for 2 seconds, then did the freezy thing. 'Cache'. 'Cache'. What sort of 'cache'? Cache on the harddisk? Cache on the motherboard? L1 and L2 Cache? Memory cache?
I guess it's not FPU operations. You mean Floating Point Unit, yeah?

No, no overclocking now. I turned it down once but it's back at 133. The CPU runs at aobut 50-60. I've just got a new heatsink and fan which is recommended by AMD.

My case is, well, sh*te. Same goes for my PSU. I was recommended one but I can't buy it anywhere. I don't think it's 300 watts. I had a PIII 450 in it. That's the earliest CPU in there. An extra gigahertz is going to hurt it.

I've set my virtual mem to let Windows manages it. I have never had this happen on dxdiag, see the picture.

http://www.geocities.com/forestedtemple/Images/dxdiag.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/forestedtemple/Images/vmem.jpg

Take a looksy at the Page file. Before, I saw it at least 18mb. Can I see a snap shot of your vmem.jpg? Shouldn't there be an unlimited somewhere?

-Dan

[dgp9999]

Ah, new findings. I used my BIOS utility to underclock the FSB from 133 to 100. (EDIT: leaving me at 1100mhz) I've taken off the side of my case and presto to CPU temp. is at about 45-50. I haven't seen a crash sinse.

I never noticed how taxing WAV->MP3 is. I converted the disk four MIDI->WAV through WinAmp, then WAV->MP3 using MusicMatch. That pushed the temperature from 46 to 49.

-Dan

P.S. Can anyone recommend a nice PSU and case.
[edited] 265 2001-12-27 19:56

[J*** H*******]

Message.

[Goku7]

On 2001-12-27 17:22, Jari Huttunen wrote:
It seems OK. Although I don't recall seeing WIndoze running without using page file _at all_ it might very well be possible with that much memory. I always use fixed size for page file, so that might have something to do with me not seeing that kind of situation.

It's fine.  I got the same thing too, after booting my system for the first time after my big upgrade.  My dad was like, "Uh, it didn't use the swap file.  Did we break something?"

So yeah, a 0 meg page file is possible.
[edited] 239 2001-12-27 22:37

[ficedula]

Jari: Yes, 'tis to do with the halt command (well, HLT, since you aren't allowed to have an assembler code that's actually a *word* ) which DOS doesn't have.

***Off topic but informative rant***

When the computer isn't doing anything, it's supposed to issue HLT commands, which just temporarily (we're talking microseconds) pause the CPU. If the computer is doing *literally* nothing, a lot of the instructions issued will be HLT's, and the CPU will "not be running", and cools down.
A modern O/S is supposed to run HLT's when it's got nothing else to do. That's why CPU temperature can vary with what you're doing; when the system's lightly loaded, the O/S is issueing HLT's during the spare time which allow the CPU to cool down ever so slightly.
IIRC NT series OS's (ie. NT, 2K, XP...) do this. Win9X doesn't but you can get programs like Rain that do it for you, which is what I do. DOS, OTOH, doesn't have any such thing, so in pure DOS mode, the processor is always in 100% full usage, since when DOS isn't doing anything else, it just loops constantly, and never tells the CPU (via a HLT) that it isn't doing anything important so it could cool off now.

***End rant***

[Threesixty]

Like I said before....I have a 1.2 Athlon (rev C). And my temp never goes above 50, and I haven't had any problems with it. I've heard that the Athlons start doing wierd things when they hit a temp of 60C. but it won't fry until you hit a temp of about 95C. Put that new heatsink on and see what happens.....you really don't want to see that temp over 50C. Actually the temps that are perfered are in the 30's. (usually a Delta fan is needed for these temps, with one of those GlobalWin heatsinks...and they are not quiet.)

It's probably a cooling problem, more than anything else. Just keep in mind, a heatsink can only get the chip as cool as the case. If the case temp is at 40C or something......you need better air-circulation. Cheapest way to do this is to buy some 60mm or 30mm Case fans...and start drilling holes in the case. (but you need a good quality PSU to keep up, with the extra fans...at least 300watt non-generic.)

Athlons are finicky. They like pure juice, and they like pure memory. And the cooler they are, the less finicky they get. (kinda like me)

Don't worry about the V-ram.  That was an old rememdy for the World Map crash, problem....actually I don't think I've heard that complaint in a long time....I just threw it out there, because it worked in the past.

---------------

If you want a reliable case, and you don't mind spending about a 100+ dollars for it. I would recommend the Antec 1040. Really, I think the 1030 will be fine, its a lot cheaper than the 1040. But the 1030 (Antec 300watt) isn't on AMD's recommended list, only the 400watt version is. I'm sure it's just an oversite. Antec's PSU are real good.

But really, as long as you see the Powersupply on the AMD's  webpage, and the Case looks nice and roomy, and comes with a few case fans (or at least openings for some, 4 is good)...you should be Okay.  

The only ones I can really comment on are the 1030/40, and maybe the 830/40. the 1030 and 1040 are exactly the same, except for the PSU that it comes with.....and the 830/40 is basicly a 1030/40 without the front door, and minus an internal drive holder.  (you can see it in the pics).

Antec 1030:
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=16
(the forth fan is right in front on the harddrive holder...nothing better than a little extra Harddrive cooling.)

Antec 830:
http://www.kdcomputers.com/exec/productProfile?id=18
(The harddrive holder is missing, in front of that forth fan)

type "antec" in the search, to see all of them:
http://www.kdcomputers.com/

I'm sure there are hundreds of  cases that are just as good or better (The Aluminum Cases are getting real popular)....but the Antec1030 is what I have, so it's the only one I can recommend.
[edited] 65 2001-12-28 00:52

[dgp9999]

About power. My Dad's going on about 300W will cost loads more to run than my current one, i believe 200W. I expect it won't be much more.

Also, I read that a case should be room temperature. I've had my PC running 15 mins and my CPU is 45oC, case is 35oC. Don't forget my case side is removed with my AMD underclocked by 366mhz.

I think I need one, what do you lot think?

-Dan

[ficedula]

No, it won't. I'm 99% sure that the power rating on a PSU is the *maximum* it can output, not that it always does.

In other words, if you're drawing 200W to run your PC, you could use either a 200W PSU or a 300W PSU and they'd both use just as much electricity - the 300W simply wouldn't be drawing it's maximum. It shouldn't draw the full 300W unless your components are actually *using* 300W of power.

Case won't be room temperature, often, since the heat from the CPU has to go *somewhere* ... and while your fans should circulate air through to move the heat out into the room, unless you've got an optimal setup, there always will be some heat lingering around in the case.

35oC seems a *bit* warm for a case with no cover, but since the CPU's only 45oC - and that's perfectly safe - I wouldn't worry. >60 would be worry time. 50-60 is "keep an eye on it", under 50 is great. At least, that's how I judge temperatures.