Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f] (Read 3072735 times)

Zhnigo · « **Reply #2625 on:** 2016-03-29 13:37:55 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2014-01-08 01:16:04

Non-dialogue documentation can be found HERE. Please remember to look at this before asking questions about character/item/weapon/materia names and so forth.

Line 787, shouldn't it be "Sandals"?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2626 on:** 2016-03-29 13:55:43 »

Well spotted.

That also needs fixing in the relocalization.

edit.

It's now fixed. Thanks.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2627 on:** 2016-03-30 22:19:36 »

OK so... I have been working hard to fix the most important scene in the whole game - Cloud remembering who he is. Let's look at the errors (one's in red are also present in PSX):

1. When using Model Overhaul, Cloud does not correctly disarm Zax (Zax remains with sword). Fixed.

2. Zax disappears for a frame when being disarmed, because the Zax-with-sword model is hidden before showing the one without. Fixed.

3. When Cloud confronts Sephiroth and then takes off his helmet (my favourite part of the whole game), he disappears for the same reason as above. This time the soldier model is hidden before the Cloud-without-helmet is shown. Fixed.

4. When using Model Overhaul, Cloud can still be seen on screen while putting his helmet on. Fixed. [Part of his hair can be seen in the original game too]

5. Zax then turns to Cloud and shrugs. Originally, he turns to the wrong model (the Cloud model that is now off screen). Fixed.

6. When Cloud sits up among the flames of Niblheim, he then goes instantly back into his unconscious stance. This is a huge error, because the whole point is showing how he escaped the flames in time. He's supposed to stay sitting up. Fixed.
[Actually, the entire animation sequence here is wrecked. They have used the opcode that returns to previous state AND, in Cloud main, they've set Cloud's lying down stance to loop by accident, which is why he returns to lying down in error.]

7. When cloud returns to take Tifa to safety, he is not carrying the Buster Sword. Fixed.

8. He then confronts Sephiroth without the Buster Sword (how was he expecting to finish him off?). You can clearly see that the animation here intends a sword but, for some reason, they forgot to use the correct model. Fixed.

To do: 1. The music is ending too soon. It's supposed to end as Cloud throws Sephiroth over the railings. I am going to be looking at the PSX version soon and ascertaining where the issue lies. It could be that Anxious Heart starts the music at the wrong point, but I don't think so.

2. As Cloud takes off his helmet, his hand animates the totally wrong direction (ETBE). Fixed. [The PSX version has block hands, so you don't notice this]

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2628 on:** 2016-03-31 14:22:40 »

Looks like a new version of Anxious Heart is needed

The Final Fantasy VII theme that plays when Cloud takes his helmet off has been edited deliberately to prolong the music by looping around 3 times in a particular area. I assumed it just played from one point to the end. It doesn't. So that's a mistake on my part, and I'll need to create a new one.

Here is a video. This is how it is supposed to loop. The music is actually ending too late here because the emulator I used is crap. But you'll get the point. Also note the script errors I mentioned above (Cloud disappearing for a frame / Cloud going back to lying down position / Zax looking at the hidden model and not the Cloud-with-Helmet model)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbizljHjTJ8

lorywindrunner · « **Reply #2629 on:** 2016-03-31 15:02:08 »

Are animations being drastically sped up with the 60 fps mod ever going to be addressed or is that something that is unfixable and we have to deal with?

Cloud shoots at enemies at lightspeed to attack them and when enemies explode when they die it looks very silly because of how fast the animation is.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2630 on:** 2016-03-31 15:08:48 »

It's very likely there to stay. I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod. NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping. You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not. It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2631 on:** 2016-03-31 17:59:09 »

Another error in the Cloud reveal sequence (nvmkin32). A partial animation (3, frame 99) is being set (in Group7, Script3) that isn't needed and is also wrong. It displays the wrong Cloud-with-helmet stance before the actual animation (4) is played. All that's needed is animation 4, frame 0 being set as a partial animation - and then animation 4 being played after the model is shown.

Which also brings me to another error... I think. During the Nibl flashback, Sephiroth executes 2 villagers. It always bugged me that there was a clownish delay from his sword hitting them to them animating being killed. It made the moment comedic when it wasn't meant to be. I think it was an error. Time to fix.

edit.

Yeah - it's having to wait for the animation. I know a way to fix this

Both these issues are present in PSX version also.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2632 on:** 2016-03-31 20:30:13 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCL73kTcGe8

Fixed.

Also, the Camera Man originally has his eyes open and can blink.

DynamixDJ · « **Reply #2633 on:** 2016-03-31 20:35:16 »

Good work!!

-Edit- I've been thinking, given the fact that you are attempting to fix as many bugs as poss with FFVII, how many battle related bugs are you looking at? While I would love to take a break from my guide to play Reunion, I'm not going to, nor will I have the time to anytime soon, so I don't know the exact extent of your project, but I can list a few easily fixable bugs that are still present in your mod:

Any field map screen that has an encounter rate of 32 or above will overflow, thereby gaining a 100% chance of being encountered, special battles not included (as the special battle check occurs prior to the normal battle check). This glitch does not occur on the World Map.

Because I'm too lazy to edit, I'll just C&P the content of my (soon-to-be released) Formation Charts:

Code: [Select]

      ______________________________________________________________________
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtcrl_4" (Mt. Corel "Rollercoaster" screen):                        |
      |            #504 3x Needle Kiss, 1x Cokatolis  Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #505 2x Cokatolis                  Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtcrl_9" (Mt. Corel "Bridge" screen):                               |
      |            #513 1x Bomb                       Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #514 1x Bagnadrana                 Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtnvl3" (Mt. Nibel "Bridge" screen [during flashback only]):        |
      |            #584 3x Sonic Speed                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #585 2x Sonic Speed                Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      | 
      |                                                                      |
      | "junsbd1" (Junon "Red Submarine Dock" Screen [past barking dog]):    |
      |            #761 3x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #762 2x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "junin2" (Junon "Outside Press Conference" screen [during escape]):  |
      |            #944 1x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #945 2x SODLIER:2ND                Enc 30                 |
      |______________________________________________________________________|

Setting the encounter rate to 17 then duplicating the encounter should fix the problem

blin68_1 & blin68_2 both have formation 451 (2x Zenene, "Pincer" attack) with encounter rate 0. This seems like an error. Also, blin68_2 has random encounters disabled. I suspect that this was intentional for the first time you enter this screen (Sample fight), however they forgot to re-enable them.

Some of the bosses have the incorrect Setup flag used, and as such pre-emptive Strikes are possible. Aps (#386), jenova Birth (#488), Turks Gongaga (#539), Snow (#679) and Turks Midgar (#840) all use the "FFF9" Setup flag (can't escape). Change this flag to FFE9 to disable preemptive chances (and retain the can't escape flag). Note that if random encounters are disabled on a screen then the preemptive chance is off by default. Also note that the Snow battle is a unique formation, and is not the same randomly encountered Snow.

Also, I've spotted a few errors with the cover flags that are used. I wish to God I'd listed all of the errors that I'd found... foolish me, anyway, here's the one that I can remember:
Battle #634. The 2x Kelzmelzer are supposed to cover the 2x Toxic Frog, however they do not.

Lastly, the Bahba Velamyu (#144) has been incorrectly used for 2 groups of "next arenas", meaning that if you are in pool B (set 2), and you land on #144 as battle 6, you will be moved over to pool A as battle 7. This can be corrected by choosing a battle of your choice, and selecting the following battles as "next arena":

0238, 0245, 0248, 0254

I've checked to see if there is a battle formation that has these values set to next arena, but is not called upon via the previous battle 5 (i.e. the "missing" formation), however there are only 3 formations that use these "next arena" formations, so you could literally choose any formation that fits as the fourth "Set 2 - Group B - Battle 6" battle. Remember to edit battles #542 (021E), #545 (0221), #548 (0224) and #554 (022A); the last "Next Arena" must be changed from 0090 to whatever formation ID you have chosen.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #2634 on:** 2016-03-31 21:17:21 »

I never knew about that encounter thing; good find.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2635 on:** 2016-03-31 21:20:07 »

Yeah any bugs with battle will be dealt with. It's going to be a ridiculous task. I'll be happy if I can get something that is fun to play and more or less consistent.

It would be a help if you posted anything you find in a separate thread regarding battle stuff. I haven't started the battle mod properly - and this stuff will need documenting for everyone. And I already know there's a lot of stuff.

DynamixDJ · « **Reply #2636 on:** 2016-03-31 22:04:08 »

As mentioned, I have nearly finished my formation charts. I checked over my work using various FAQs from GameFaq (Tferg and MGSB), and because I'm such a nice guy I have compiled a list for both authors of mistakes that I found in their work. I am absolutely kicking myself for not making a third list of developers errors... I didn't really have you in mind at the time DB.

Seeing as it's all still relatively fresh in my mind, I'm considering giving my chart a complete once-over once it's uploaded, and I'll list as many bugs or potential bus as I can possibly find, and like you said, I'll create a new topic in the "scripting" forum.

obesebear · « **Reply #2637 on:** 2016-04-01 01:50:08 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2016-03-31 15:08:48

It's very likely there to stay. I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod. NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping. You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not. It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

When NFITC1 was working on the smooth 60fps mod, he made it sound like delaying the action scripts would be fairly simple. I would imagine that would include both character movement speed when attacking and the death animation.

lorywindrunner · « **Reply #2638 on:** 2016-04-01 02:21:47 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2016-03-31 15:08:48

It's very likely there to stay. I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod. NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping. You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not. It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

Yeah that isn't surprising was just being hopeful!

Can i get some clarification on the "Incorrect character names" toggle? What names are changed from this? If I want all the original english names do i tick it or keep it unticked?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2639 on:** 2016-04-01 11:13:10 »

You tick it - see the help file

The names that change are:

Code: [Select]

Zax>Zack
Leno>Reno
Yrena>Elena
Gusto>Gast
Elmina>Elmyra
Zeng>Tseng
Mina>Myrna
Sierra>Shera
Godot>Godo
Crean>Chole
Grean>Choco Bill
Greene>Choco Billy
Marin>Marlene
Barrett>Barret

@obesebear The way I am limiting the game means it's a little different - but perhaps that fix can still be incorporated, if it's the same issue.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2640 on:** 2016-04-01 14:07:11 »

I always spot something that makes dialogue a little more natural.

trackin2 [This is actually meant to be "Truck Interior/Inside 2"]

Before
Zax
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
If you aren’t feeling well,how
about taking off the helmet?”

After
Zax
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
If you aren’t feeling well,
why don’t you lose the helmet?”

I assume this works equally in America?

lorywindrunner · « **Reply #2641 on:** 2016-04-01 18:09:06 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2016-04-01 11:13:10

You tick it - see the help file

The names that change are:

Code: [Select]
Zax>Zack Leno>Reno Yrena>Elena Gusto>Gast Elmina>Elmyra Zeng>Tseng Mina>Myrna Sierra>Shera Godot>Godo Crean>Chole Grean>Choco Bill Greene>Choco Billy Marin>Marlene Barrett>Barret
@obesebear The way I am limiting the game means it's a little different - but perhaps that fix can still be incorporated, if it's the same issue.

Yeah i checked the readme but it wasn't clear so I thought I would double check.

Would it be possible to get an option to not change the limit break names as well? I prefer the originals ex Beat Rush, Cross Slash, etc. I love the changed dialogue for the most part but the changed names just don't feel right to me.

obesebear · « **Reply #2642 on:** 2016-04-01 23:04:37 »

I think it sounds good.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2643 on:** 2016-04-02 12:45:14 »

@lorywindrunner

A retranslation is a retranslation. If I start offering original names for everything, not only is that a big effort, it defeats the whole purpose of a retranslation. You can change them yourself soon, when the new touphScript is uploaded.

The concessions above are the only ones being made. The only reason the names don't feel right to you is because you are used to the original names.

lorywindrunner · « **Reply #2644 on:** 2016-04-02 17:26:04 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2016-04-02 12:45:14

@lorywindrunner

A retranslation is a retranslation. If I start offering original names for everything, not only is that a big effort, it defeats the whole purpose of a retranslation. You can change them yourself soon, when the new touphScript is uploaded. The concessions above are the only ones being made. The only reason the names don't feel right to you is because you are used to the original names.

That sounds like a pretty valid reason to me. If it's not a valid reason than why does the retranslation allow us to use the original english names? That is the same exact situation.

The english names for the limit breaks are still used even in later games. I think translating a name and full sentences are pretty different. One seems more deliberate and the other seems like mistakes were made during the process.

Being able to edit things ourselves seems like a pretty cool idea though.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2645 on:** 2016-04-02 18:32:38 »

It's not the same situation, because character names are established (unfortunately) as a canon in a ton of media - even outside of the game franchise. I allowed that as a concession. I am definitely not adding concessions for everything else as well. I am flexible enough to bend on certain issues, but not to the point where I am breaking. The character names and all other mistakes were mistakes that should have been corrected, but never were (apart from Aerith).

All this could have been avoided if Square 1996/7 had bothered to take localization more seriously. Instead, I have to continually see "W Summon" and "Zack" in the media.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2646 on:** 2016-04-03 00:09:47 »

Haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpRfEPAG-vc

Improved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqvHEy9ENgs

DynamixDJ · « **Reply #2647 on:** 2016-04-03 13:20:14 »

Lol, that is brilliant, and even more ominous without sound

jmp434 · « **Reply #2648 on:** 2016-04-03 22:39:05 »

Hi, do you think it would be possible to create the menu overhault with the Neo-Midgar by Acro create patch on ff7.fr to give a possible French-speaking person to get a menu installable on a translated version perfectly in french? (The original version of ff7 is carnage at the translation level and gives no meaning to the game) I managed to translate the space but certain name was too limited to replace with the perfect name has true translation. ..

White Wind · « **Reply #2649 on:** 2016-04-05 20:04:27 »

Back!

All the quirks you've corrected in Cloud's remembering have been added to the list. Thanks for telling if on PSX or not.
Thanks to you too DynamixDJ, yours are also nice discoveries

some were already on my list but others definitely not.

Yes, I'm making a list with the help of Dan, of any bugs, inconsistencies, oversights, oddities I can come accross, and I'll open a new thread for it.
Let's be honest, "complete" is impossible, but so far we have 256 entries and still going (next I tackle the properties/elements, the statuses and the Love Points system). The list is being sorted too.

@DynamixDJ: If you want an early look at it for things related to what you're working on, you can pm me

@jmp (in French): Je vais répondre à la place de Dan, en fait il est déjà sur vingt mille projets personnels donc il n'a pas le temps de se lancer dans des trucs qui concernent les projets des autres.
D'habitude il le dit lui-même, mais suite à une ptite embrouille on lui a demandé de ne plus répondre à ce genre de post.. mais sinon voilà, il ne t'a pas délibérément snobbé.

@Dan: Two things.

Something we're so used to that it doesn't even look out of place, when in fact it's just plain wrong:
On the field, you meet a Shin-Ra blue guard, a battle is engaged, you're fighting a blue guard.. well alright. But those red guards with their cap ! Face them in battles, and you'll also be fighting blue guards, that's plain nonsense.

Second thing. I don't know what Japanese/Beacause tells us, but in the original localization, when we're looking at an undamaged Niblheim:

-Cait Sith (when he didn't speak the first):
"Cloud, did you make up that story just to get out support?"

-Cait Sith (if Tifa is present):
"Cloud, maybe you were just dreaming…?"

Cait Sith was not in Kalm and didn't hear Cloud's story...
And Yuffie's dialogue looks a bit suspicious to me:

-Yuffie
"I thought someone said this town burnt down!"

-Yuffie (if Tifa is present)
"What the…?"

Pretty sure someone refers to Cloud in Yuffie's mouth, sarcasticly.