[SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!

[gjoerulv]

I just want a 1:1 carbon copy of the original story. Anything added or removed is blasphemy. 

[The Black-caped Man]

And the original soundtrack, no KH/AC shit.....Just the FMV graphics or the anime graphics of the original manual/menu avatars and we could embrace it.....

[Caledor]

My 2 cents, from someone liked what saw from the E3 till 2 days ago, before "spoilers day".

Spoiler: show

I just don't care about this "ff7 remake saga" anymore. They can (and will) do whatever they want with the game now, it won't affect me in any way. The one thing i'm angry about is that they lied to us for 5 years, cause this is not a remake but a sequel. But that's it. My care meter reads zero.

Now, it's highly likely that this first game will be the worst in the entire compilation since the WoF are no more, hopefully the rest will have some linear plot. Even though i don't know how it could end differently: if they ultimately defeat Seph as the last boss this whole parallel timeline mess would be meaningless. Why try to make a different story if the end result is the same?

Even better, hopefully Square will be forced to apologize for lying from the backlash.

One thing i know, I hope Square won't "Remake" anything anymore, or at least won't use the word "remake" for stuff like this.

BTW, the Watchman of Fate are the in game representation of all of us that played the original. Those that wanted things to adhere to the original faithfully. Dunno how i feel knowing that Nomura slew us so he could have free hand in it.

PS. Aerith is not meant to be cute beautiful, innocent and pure. Aerith is meant to look, at first glance, innocent and pure. it takes anyone 5 minutes to realize she's anything but a sheltered princess. Everything else about the contrast with Tifa is obviously true. Hot combat girl is actually shy and beautiful gentle girl is actually very extrovert (for lack of a better word).

[LeonhartGR]

Spoiler: show

lol  time travelling Sephiroth

To mods:  Why do we need to use spoilers when the actual subject has SPOILERS?

I guess for the same reason the whole world is in quarantine instead of just the vulnerable groups! Haha.

[Kefka]

Attention, another spoiler coming up! I just read on some other forum that:

Spoiler: show

this time it is actually the Shinra themselves who are blowing up the reactors to blame it on Avalanche. This was apparently done to make Avalanche look "nicer", and less terrorist-like, to make it fit into today's time, and to draw a much clearer picture of good guys vs evil guys (ugh!)...

And it gets even more hilarious when they argue that "the original game already hints at that", lol! Maybe some of you remember: in the original game, in the Avalanche hideout, Jesse was a bit surprised that her bomb's explosion was stronger than intended, and she wonders whether she made a mistake. Now I (and any sane person too, I presume) always figured that she simply miscalculated, since she's an amateur, afterall. But Nomura (or Nojima?) apparently interpreted that as Shinra being behind this with a bomb of their own. 

Honestly, what on earth were they smoking when they made up stuff like this?

[-Ric-]

Attention, another spoiler coming up! I just read on some other forum that:
Honestly, what on earth were they smoking when they made up stuff like this?

Did you even play the original?
Cause Shinra 100% blows up reactor 5 as well as the pillar that supports sector 7.
The first explosion is hinted at being caused by Shinra as well by the very same scene you mentioned...

The remake is so triggering that some of you are going above and beyond looking for stuff to hate on.

I mean, we got socially awkward, on the spectrum, basement virgins debating if Aerith is innocent or slutty... WTF!

And sure, Sephiroth is a transgender super soldier far less manly than y'all. You extremely macho folks. 

This thread is a hilarious pool of tears. And the salt... Oh my. I love it.

Stay triggered my friends, stay triggered.

[Kefka]

Did you even play the original?
Cause Shines 100% blows up reactor 5 as well as the pillar that supports sector 7.
The first explosion is hinted at being caused by Shinra as well by the very same scene you mentioned...

LOL, you're not really serious about that, are you? I could return that same question.

For reference, here's Barret's exact words when they first meet president Shinra in reactor 5:

Barret: Don't give a damn 'bout none of that! This place's goin' up with a big BANG soon! Serves y'all right!

Avalanche DID place a bomb in reactor 5, in case you've forgotten. Just the timer wasn't visible this time for gameplay reasons (there was still a cutscene and a boss battle coming up, so they probably didn't want to pressure the players too much), but the original game never left any doubt that this was Avalanche's bomb.

And on a side note, it wouldn't make any sense for Shinra to blow up the reactors themselves. They are ruthless, yes, but like any company their prime objective is earning money, and as an electric power company the reactors are their main source of income. If they wanted to denounce Avalanche as evil-doers, they could've easily done so in other ways. From a business point of view, demolishing your own production is devoid of all logic. (And I'm actually surprised that Nomura, who is also among the leadership of a big company, seemingly doesn't understand that.)

And Jesse wondering about her bomb's strength isn't really a "hint" for any sort of conspiracy from Shinra. It's far more likely that she just made a mistake when constructing her bomb. Everybody makes mistakes from time to time, that's normal, and Jesse even made another one with Clouds ID card on the train, so we already know her work isn't always the most reliable.

Oh, and to answer your initial question, I've played the original more times than I can count over the past 22 years.

[-Ric-]

, I've played the original more times than I can count over the past 22 years.

"And such a waste of good fireworks, just to get rid of vermin like you..."

"We'll destroy Sector 7 and report that AVALANCHE did it. Then we'll send in the rescue operation care of Shinra, Inc. ...Heh, heh, heh... This is perfect."

Go back and play it some more.  lmao.

[Caledor]

Love it how there's no evidence of Shinra actively blowing up Reactor 5 (other than just letting Avalanche's bomb go off) yet you act like you're enlightened.

[-Ric-]

Love it how there's no evidence of Shinra actively blowing up Reactor 5 (other than just letting Avalanche's bomb go off) yet you act like you're enlightened.

Jessie was surprised her bomb caused such a massive explosion. *cough cough*. Yet the 2nd bomb causes exactly the same kind of explosion. Yeah, she definitely made the same mistake twice.  There's absolutely no possible way that Shinra would've. Especially when soon after they purposely blow up an entire sector of Midgar and kill everyone in there. Shinra would never.

They definitely had to be smoking something to come up with that for the remake. There was absolutely no possible way. 

Oh and they definitely didn't have a "Neo Midgar" plan as well. Must be my head-cannon.

Bunch of geniuses here...

And on a side note, it wouldn't make any sense for Shinra to blow up the reactors themselves. They are ruthless, yes, but like any company their prime objective is earning money, and as an electric power company the reactors are their main source of income. If they wanted to denounce Avalanche as evil-doers, they could've easily done so in other ways. From a business point of view, demolishing your own production is devoid of all logic. (And I'm actually surprised that Nomura, who is also among the leadership of a big company, seemingly doesn't understand that.)

Pure gold right here...

[-Ric-]

also using flawed original English translation to make a point about original story prob isn't a good idea

Point made.

Sorry but, your translation work, regardless of the time you invested and how good it might be, never was and never will be... "original". The game is what the game is.

s7 convo is about the pillar which shinra do deliberately blow up to kill avalanche.

Correct. it's just to prove a point that Shinra would've no issues blowing up a reactor.

[MysticLord]

We're well into best girl territory at this point, someone should make a poll.

If FF7R is released on PC you can always mod it to remove the retcons and restore original outfits. It's not a big deal, though it is funny that SE can't tell a decent story to save their lives.

[Caledor]

Jessie was surprised her bomb caused such a massive explosion. *cough cough*. Yet the 2nd bomb causes exactly the same kind of explosion.

First reactor has a massive explosion from the top, while the flames cover up the bridge completely.
5th reactor's burst barely makes the bridge outside it tremble.

Yeah, totally the same explosion. Not to mention that Reactor 5 is shown working to charge up the Sister Ray later, unlike Reactor 1.

Shinra would never.

I said that there's no evidence that they blew up Reactor 5, not that they wouldn't.

your translation work, regardless of the time you invested and how good it might be, never was and never will be... "original". The game is what the game is.

Original is the japanese. Anything else is prone to errors. Anyone using that even more so. Chinese whispers/telephone game.

[-Ric-]

First reactor has a massive explosion from the top, while the flames cover up the bridge completely.

That's a pretty good point.

Don't Cloud and Barret plant the bomb somewhere near the bottom of the reactor?

Again, not saying Shinra did but to claim people have to somehow be on drugs to come up with that is pretty sad. It's an absolute possibility.

Original is the japanese. Anything else is prone to errors. Anyone using that even more so. Chinese whispers/telephone game.

Yes. European, American, Australian, African players all around the world are going back and looking at the Japanese release for references whenever they think of Final Fantasy 7.

Absolutely.

[Caledor]

4 out of 5 fields in reactor 1 and 5 look identical, except a different shade of color. Including the two where the bomb is placed. The one that's different is the entrance/exit. R1 has the Biggs/Jesse code doors, R5 has the buttons minigame.

Yes. European, American, Australian, African players all around the world are going back and looking at the Japanese release for references whenever they think of Final Fantasy 7.

If you build up a conjecture from a translation mistake, and someone shows proof of that mistake, what do you do? you keep stubbornly clinging to it? Again, I didn't say you should. I said you're exposing yourself to a risk. This is the second time in a row you twist my words, try to be more careful.

[-Ric-]

If you build up a conjecture from a translation mistake, and someone shows proof of that mistake, what do you do? you keep stubbornly clinging to it? Again, I didn't say you should. I said you're exposing yourself to a risk. This is the second time in a row you twist my words, try to be more careful.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though? Is there a major translation mistake in the two quotes I posted earlier? Please do share if so.

[-Ric-]

The original English PSX version of VII had Zeng die and tifa's bar was a shop.  Should we keep those too?

The story is the Japanese source from 1996.  Nothing else.  None of the retcons. None of the material afterwards.  And certainly not a totally flawed English translation from 1997.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep" but they should absolutely be taken into account. That's how 99.9% of the world played the game. It's kind of a big deal, you know?

[-Ric-]

It doesn't matter if god played it - the story is what the original writers intended - not what a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen.

What a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen is what you, I, and most of the world got to experience.

You can argue all you want that it's not right, that there are mistakes and there definitely are.

It's still what most of the world experienced and therefore, it's an absolutely valid thing to take into consideration.

And I'm still waiting to get educated on the "proper" translation for the two quotes I posted. I'd love to know what is wrong in them. Do tell.

[-Ric-]

It's not valid at all. And certainly not when you're using that flawed translation to then explain a title 20 years later by a totally different localization team again working from a new Japanese script. You're not making any sense.

Ahem.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though? Is there a major translation mistake in the two quotes I posted earlier? Please do share if so.

What are the big mistranslation in those quotes exactly?

[Caledor]

Again, not saying Shinra did but to claim people have to somehow be on drugs to come up with that is pretty sad. It's an absolute possibility.

Yes, the chance is not 0%. But it's definitively not 100% like you claimed earlier. Again, there's no evidence.

If we wanna talk about the remake, it doesn't prove anything about details the original as long as the end result doesn't change.

Spoiler: show

Remember we're dealing with a different timeline here. For what it's worth, it could'be the Watchman of Fate's doing to tone down or enhance the explosion so it suits their needs. Or any other minor difference we spot. Like Cloud and Reno fightning. Nobody should care about changes from the original game. Cause it's literally not the original game.

I'm open to changing my mind. Where is that "proof" though?

I just said be careful. Don't treat it like gospel cause it's far from it. I did not argument it further cause it's a mere warning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep" but they should absolutely be taken into account. That's how 99.9% of the world played the game. It's kind of a big deal, you know?

This is the most frequent argument brought up against any retranslation. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion like this is, so i'll just share mine: I don't care. If whatever percentile of the world has been lied to and i can amend, i'll do it. And i'm not talking about name transliterations or meaningless stuff like that, but big character personality and plot altering mistakes.

If the whole world still thinks that Red XIII is stoic and brave and when given the chance you don't amend it "cause the masses know him like that" you've sinned twice.

Again, my opinion.

[-Ric-]

It doesn't matter if god played it - the story is what the original writers intended - not what a localizer on a tight deadline accidentally made happen.

But you're arguing FF7r is status quo and you have no leg to stand on.  Or pillar.

https://imgur.com/a/0wPOXoV

Isn't that your work? Certainly seems to suggest Shinra blew up R 5. Or that they were at least comfortable with letting it explode. Which matches pretty well with the "bad translation".

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_LtQ-Pvzkg

So, what exactly was the issue with the two quotes I posted? Am I going to find another similar outcome if I waste my time checking this walkthrough out for the 2nd quote?

[-Ric-]

So basically all the posts about my use of two "flawed translation" quotes turn out to be bullshit as your "accurate" one can be interpreted exactly the same way as the original.

Waste of time...

This remake retcons utterly huge parts of the original story.  That isn't a statement of opinion.

No one's arguing that the remake is 100% faithful to the original, at all. You'll find no one to debate you on that.

[gjoerulv]

If there are conflicts in interpretations, I say go for the most reasonable one. A LOT of things are possible, or, not impossible.

It is not impossible for Shinra to blow up the reactor(s) themselves, but the most reasonable interpretation, imo, is that Shinra let Avalanche blow up r5 after r1.

If they retcon Shinra to being the ones who 100% certainly blew up the reactors, it's not necessarily a bad retcon. But, I dunno, did Han shoot first? We can't have the good guys do bad stuff now, can we?

Anyway, it's not technically a retcon if this is a brand-new story.
But if it is indeed a sequel, then it's 100% retcon territory.

[The Black-caped Man]

Rofl Shinra could blow up sector 7 and blame it on avalanche because everything existing there was JUNK!
The reactors are their income so no way in hell would they blow that up to fight "vermin" like avalanche, they would rather extinct all their possible hideouts, interrogate every slum citizen, etc.
Anything else would be unreasonable. God what a stupid world do we live in if ppl honestly swallow that shit and think it's a believable story twist. Reminds me of Kathleen Kennedy explaining the return of the Emperor because quote "GEORGE LUCAS NEVER GAVE US A BODY!" Whats next? Sephiroth is really a girl?! And that was hinted in the original game, long hair, female looks....jup I buy it. Same level of stupidity....

[-Ric-]

If there are conflicts in interpretations, I say go for the most reasonable one. A LOT of things are possible, or, not impossible.

It is not impossible for Shinra to blow up the reactor(s) themselves, but the most reasonable interpretation, imo, is that Shinra let Avalanche blow up r5 after r1.

If they retcon Shinra to being the ones who 100% certainly blew up the reactors, it's not necessarily a bad retcon. But, I dunno, did Han shoot first? We can't have the good guys do bad stuff now, can we?

Anyway, it's not technically a retcon if this is a brand-new story.
But if it is indeed a sequel, then it's 100% retcon territory.

Very fair take.