Author Topic: Long time No See! (DXTweaker, Truform, FF7/8, and You) (Read 13527 times)

KojiroTakenashi · « **on:** 2005-06-07 21:22:18 »

Is Fice still around? If so...I've found somethin'

I remember a while back wondering if there was any kind of filter like SuperEagle that could be added to spiffy up the backgrounds...With the work that's being done on things being at Higher Res...this seems more important.

He said it would be very difficult because it would involve intercepting DX Calls and stuff...

Well, there's this program called DXTweaker that does just that, uses a plugin system.

Also...I had an idea that would apply for all games, but REALLY spiffy up the classics like FF7. Using DXTweaker...shouldn't it be possible to take ATI's software-based source code for Truform and make a DXTweaker plugin for it? Think about the possibilities!

Edit: HERE http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=312 Dag mentions months of work to interface with DirectX, wouldn't DXTweaker also take care of that?

Here is the link for DXTweaker: http://www.nonatainment.de/portal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=7&tabid=19

MaTiAz · « **Reply #1 on:** 2005-06-08 07:11:57 »

Doesn't work for me... Propably it's not working because FF7 is DX6, and DXT doesn't have DX6 support. It has only DX7 and up

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #2 on:** 2005-06-08 16:45:47 »

Really? I could've sworn FF7 was DX7, and FF8 was DX8...

MaTiAz · « **Reply #3 on:** 2005-06-08 17:33:23 »

Nope, FF7 is DX6. DX6 came with FF7. But let's hope that nonatainment makes a DX6 plugin for it

EDIT: FF7 is DX5 or 6... can't remember. One thread says it's DX5.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #4 on:** 2005-06-08 18:00:18 »

Shouldn't some kind of wrapper be easy enough? This prog could really speed up making enhancements for FF7...Even FF8

I mean think of it! Truform! On any system with a good enough CPU to counter the overhead!

MaTiAz · « **Reply #5 on:** 2005-06-08 18:30:16 »

Hmm... wha games use truform? And isn't it a ATI-only feature?
It propably is easier to just smooth the models. This is what a truformed tifa may look like (untextured):

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #6 on:** 2005-06-08 19:05:33 »

No, considering ATI currently does Truform in software via its drivers anyway.

There's a software Truform that's being developed for N64 graphics emulation, as well.

One of the software sources for ATI's Truform is available here:

http://www.ati.com/developer/sdk/Npatch/npatchresource.html

The "exporter and viewer".

Using DXTweaker it's possible for "Force N-Patches". Truform is ATI's little marketing name for N-Patches. I use it because it's just easier to type.

However, you can only force N-Patches on DXTweaker on hardware that supports it, which isn't nVidia cards since they want to be anticompetitive (the cards now can do it just fine). However, using DXTweaker one *should* be able to write a plugin for the Software Truform, making it run on any system.

Anyone with 3DsMax (which isn't me) should be able to export an FF7 model into the Truform viewer for a more accurate view of what a Truformed model might look like.

Threesixty · « **Reply #7 on:** 2005-06-08 21:28:47 »

I thought FF7 came with DX5.1

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #8 on:** 2005-06-08 21:30:45 »

I don't suppose anyone could bother to check, could they? One of my CD's got broken by a very large orange cat >_>;

Coulda sworn it was DX7. Or could be DX6...definately NOT DX5 though. I'm pretty damn sure FF8 used DX8, though.

Reunion · « **Reply #9 on:** 2005-06-08 22:05:12 »

FF7 and FF8 are rather old you know...

FF7 uses DX5.0

FF8 uses DX6.1

Mod Edit: Replaced the image tags with links.

corpse · « **Reply #10 on:** 2005-06-08 22:24:07 »

I think ff7 plaitinum came with dx6

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #11 on:** 2005-06-08 23:02:57 »

Wow, err...I had taken for granted how old they are.

Still...does that completely discount the use of Truform/N-patches or...?

The SaiNt · « **Reply #12 on:** 2005-06-09 03:19:04 »

It will be hell tweaking all the models since Truform will make even stuff like swords become well........."blunt"

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #13 on:** 2005-06-09 03:59:03 »

Explain. I've heard that it can make some objects pudgy...but a Truform'd link maintains his edges...his sword hilt was kind of pudgy, though.

MaTiAz · « **Reply #14 on:** 2005-06-09 11:02:40 »

Well actually, if we want Truform, it propably is easier to just write a new engine, than hacking the old crappy one just to get truform. The hacked one would be still as crash-prone as the old one.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #15 on:** 2005-06-09 18:40:46 »

You know, it was never crash-prone for me.

MaTiAz · « **Reply #16 on:** 2005-06-10 17:45:19 »

Well for me it is

and for many other ppl.

StarkRaven · « **Reply #17 on:** 2005-06-16 05:02:47 »

DirextX Tweaker already has a truform plugin. They use the generic non-ATI term, N-patches.
from the read me:

Quote

4. Force NPatch: Forces global activation for N-Patch Tesselation if available on the graphics adapter.

For an example of npatches/truform working on N64 games, check out these screen shots using Orkin's experimental plugin. The results are phenominal. But look at Link's sword handle in the last shot for an example of "bloating" that can happen with truform.

And the current version of DXTweaker contains partial support going back to directX7. Perhaps it will extend father back as the deveoper works on it.

That being said, I have been totally unable to get the program to do anything on my radeon x800, even in dx9 games that it specifically supports. I am virtually positive I have configured it correctly.. And the n-patches plugin doesn't seem to be included in the archive.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #18 on:** 2005-06-16 19:18:28 »

It is, and if you're getting no results you must not be using it correctly.

Anyway, that's not what I meant. nVidia cards do not have any higher order surface support whatsoever. The hardware does, but it's all disabled in the drivers.

The plugin I'm suggesting would be one that runs the software code, similar to what Orkin's doing.

MaTiAz · « **Reply #19 on:** 2005-06-19 18:33:48 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

Anyway, that's not what I meant. nVidia cards do not have any higher order surface support whatsoever. The hardware does, but it's all disabled in the drivers.

Yea but someone could hack the drivers and enable N-Patch for Nvidia and Truform for ATI :wicked:

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #20 on:** 2005-06-19 23:24:58 »

N-Patches ARE Truform. N-Patches are the technical name, Truform is the marketing name.

nVidia cards have had support for RT-Patches, which were nVidia's answer to Truform. However, when a truform-enabled game detected an nVidia card, it would mistakingly think that it had N-patch support. The card would then take the N-Patches and convert them to RT-Patches _very_slowly_. This was around the time of the Geforce 3. Now, there WAS a patch to unlock RT-Patches, but that was for the Detonator drivers, not Forceware.

The software workaround seems more efficient, IMO.

Edit: Saint, about tweaking the models...not really. Apparently it's a simple matter of telling the software "this is a crease" and that's that, for the edges that is.