Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)  (Read 4048459 times)

Otonashi

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11375 on: 2022-07-24 03:10:41 »
So I won all 20 battles in condor
Spoiler: show
and I see a lot of posts about getting masamune. But I received Ziedrich. Did I do something wrong? I checked with ochu and I have 15 battles, and 20 wins.

BiOMEGA

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11376 on: 2022-07-24 07:58:41 »
So I won all 20 battles in condor
Spoiler: show
and I see a lot of posts about getting masamune. But I received Ziedrich. Did I do something wrong? I checked with ochu and I have 15 battles, and 20 wins.

Since that item prompted my first visit here, too...
Spoiler: show
Masamune is still made by giving the right materials to the weapon smith in the little house near Gongaga. He tells you what he needs to make the Masamune.

Otonashi

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11377 on: 2022-07-24 19:59:48 »
Did I do something wrong though? Or was the reward just changed at some point?

BiOMEGA

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11378 on: 2022-07-24 20:45:32 »
Did I do something wrong though? Or was the reward just changed at some point?
I'm not sure when/if something changed about that, but the item in question was to my knowledge always obtained how I described; granted I only played a long long time ago and now very recently, so it's entirely possible it moved somewhere else in between. But I've only ever known it to be obtained in one way, and it's still that way.

Otonashi

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11379 on: 2022-07-24 20:50:04 »
Alright thank you. Sometimes my googlefu fails.

DefMettle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11380 on: 2022-07-25 16:24:16 »
Hey SC! Your changelog for 2.0996 states "Adjusted Ultimate Weapons; removed special formulas and gave them high base power instead (+30 ahead regular weapons)"
I had a peek at the Kernel and the Ultimate Weapons still have special damage formulas as of 2.0997.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11381 on: 2022-07-28 15:41:36 »
Hey SC! Your changelog for 2.0996 states "Adjusted Ultimate Weapons; removed special formulas and gave them high base power instead (+30 ahead regular weapons)"
I had a peek at the Kernel and the Ultimate Weapons still have special damage formulas as of 2.0997.

Ah, I was testing things out with them one more time (was on the fence about whether removing those formulas was a good idea or not) and must have gotten my kernels mixed up. I'll sort that out in the next update.

DefMettle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11382 on: 2022-07-28 22:24:41 »
In game mode B you can morph the Organics and Enhance Sword from
Spoiler: show
the C S Yin Yang Boss in the Shinra mansion safe.
Organics is a cool reward at this point, but I feel as the Enhance sword has 40 attack, full paired slots and double growth this may be a bit early to get this "end game" weapon, my thoughts are maybe adjusting the weapon's stats or changing these enemies morph items.

Just my 2pence, I think the ultimate weapons should keep their special damage formulas :)
it makes them more interesting to use, I like how cloud's ultimate weapon has an opacity visual as to the damage it will do, and Yuffie's can use morph at full attack power. Things like this make experimenting with them more fun.
« Last Edit: 2022-07-28 22:34:26 by DefMettle »

DefMettle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11383 on: 2022-07-28 22:59:57 »
Just an idea. I think removing one of Cloud's weapons and replacing it with the Masamune would be nice, making it exclusive to Cloud (maybe the Rune Blade or Crystal Sword, I never liked the look of these). I like the idea of the quest to get it (though I would make it alot more difficult).... and also maybe changing the name of the weapon as the Masamune is Sephiroth's sword, kinda doesn't make sense that your party and Sephiroth both have it.
I would suggest possibly naming it Kaneuji. http://www.nihonto-museum.com/blog/shizu-saburo-kaneuji

"Shizu Saburo Kaneuji
(兼氏—Kaneuji)
Lived in Yamato province before going to Mino to study under Masamune where his style radically changed. His swords are most like those of Masamune and quite often confused with his. The Mishina school can trace its history back to Kaneuji and Masamune."
« Last Edit: 2022-07-29 00:15:08 by DefMettle »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11384 on: 2022-07-29 10:35:55 »
In game mode B you can morph the Organics and Enhance Sword from
Spoiler: show
the C S Yin Yang Boss in the Shinra mansion safe.
Organics is a cool reward at this point, but I feel as the Enhance sword has 40 attack, full paired slots and double growth this may be a bit early to get this "end game" weapon, my thoughts are maybe adjusting the weapon's stats or changing these enemies morph items.

Just my 2pence, I think the ultimate weapons should keep their special damage formulas :)
it makes them more interesting to use, I like how cloud's ultimate weapon has an opacity visual as to the damage it will do, and Yuffie's can use morph at full attack power. Things like this make experimenting with them more fun.

Yeah you're right, I'm taking the easy way out there; I should track down the remaining formulas and modify them, rather than remove them, that's the proper way of doing this.

Will also look at that boss' morphs.

Just an idea. I think removing one of Cloud's weapons and replacing it with the Masamune would be nice, making it exclusive to Cloud (maybe the Rune Blade or Crystal Sword, I never liked the look of these). I like the idea of the quest to get it (though I would make it alot more difficult).... and also maybe changing the name of the weapon as the Masamune is Sephiroth's sword, kinda doesn't make sense that your party and Sephiroth both have it.
I would suggest possibly naming it Kaneuji. http://www.nihonto-museum.com/blog/shizu-saburo-kaneuji

"Shizu Saburo Kaneuji
(兼氏—Kaneuji)
Lived in Yamato province before going to Mino to study under Masamune where his style radically changed. His swords are most like those of Masamune and quite often confused with his. The Mishina school can trace its history back to Kaneuji and Masamune."

It'd be interesting to add the actual Masamune model for Cloud to use but I'm reluctant to replace other weapons for it.

BiOMEGA

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11385 on: 2022-07-29 15:19:43 »
Just my 2pence, I think the ultimate weapons should keep their special damage formulas :)
it makes them more interesting to use, I like how cloud's ultimate weapon has an opacity visual as to the damage it will do, and Yuffie's can use morph at full attack power. Things like this make experimenting with them more fun.
To be fair, the ACTUALLY interesting ones are few - and half of them are Yuffie's Conformer, both because of the lvl-scaling and because of the Morph quirk.

For most of the others, the formulas aren't great. HP/MP based ones are boring, and feels-bad moments when you happen to get hit/drained. Missing Score is tough to get right between totally OP and sub-par, but also feels like a somewhat bland hoop to jump through for what's nothing but a static modifier that barely if ever affects how you play. Limit-Bar-based is interesting, but I personally also never liked it because it's either discouraging you to use limits or makes you feel like a wet rag during downtime when you do use limits.

I guess the question is: what role are ultimate weapons supposed to play? Are they supposed to be the #1 no-questions-asked go-to pick at endgame? Are they supposed to be extremely good in extremely specific circumstances, and not that great outside of them? Or somewhere in between?

Ironically, the gameplay that probably feels most like an actual ultimate weapon is the status shenanigans with Tifa - charging a weapon's power by balancing negative statuses feels like an actually meaningful gameplay decision (even though Curse Ring, and to some degree Death Force/Added Effect stuff, kind of makes Death Sentence way too easy to deal with). I'm not sure how much can be done given engine/combat system limitations; FF7 isn't the most complex in that respect.

Possible ideas that come to mind (with no regard as to how feasible they are to implement): dealing magic damage (vs. MDEF not DEF); auto-debuffs (e.g. Berserk, Dual, etc.); buff immunity; negative status buffs (e.g. -255 DEX etc.); zero materia slots; zombified.

I like that in some cases earlier weapons can remain competitive; I don't like that most of those involve DEF-ignoring weapons that make certain fights a joke (e.g. Ruby Weapon). Of course a mid-game weapon shouldn't be an endgame contender all the way through except in very rare circumstances; certainly they shouldn't just eclipse every weapon between when you get them and endgame (hi there, Powersoul). The lower AP burden in ANT has done a good job weakening the power of double/triple growth weapons, which is good; but there's also too many too good triple growth weapons still (hi there, Powersoul. What, again? geez.) which makes differentiation more difficult.

Overall, though, NT has a lot more variety in weapon choices - and, above all, MEANINGFUL choices - than the original which is fantastic.
« Last Edit: 2022-07-31 01:03:47 by BiOMEGA »

Otonashi

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11386 on: 2022-08-03 02:29:44 »
So according to the documentation and my google search of this site.
Spoiler: show
Godo should drop the leviathan scales. I did the pogoda right before midgar raid and did not receive them. Is there something I'm missing?

BiOMEGA

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11387 on: 2022-08-03 12:10:06 »
So according to the documentation and my google search of this site.
Spoiler: show
Godo should drop the leviathan scales. I did the pogoda right before midgar raid and did not receive them. Is there something I'm missing?

You're not entirely wrong, but also not quite correct:
Spoiler: show
You can fight Godo twice in NT: once as usual, after completing the Wutai quest; and then again on Disc 3 (I think? maybe earlier?), in an upgraded version. That one is where you get the Scales.
« Last Edit: 2022-08-03 12:11:37 by BiOMEGA »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11388 on: 2022-08-03 12:45:03 »
Ah my bad, the documentation doesn't specify which Godo encounter; I'll update it.

DefMettle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.997)
« Reply #11389 on: 2022-08-06 23:20:04 »
Yeah you're right, I'm taking the easy way out there; I should track down the remaining formulas and modify them, rather than remove them, that's the proper way of doing this.

Will also look at that boss' morphs.

It'd be interesting to add the actual Masamune model for Cloud to use but I'm reluctant to replace other weapons for it.

Yeah man, I think this is the way to go.

So far the morphs I've found pretty spot on apart from this boss.

yeah that's fair enough, I assume adding another weapon to Cloud is feasible, but looking into it briefly with my knowledge I don't know how.

Spoiler: show
loved this btw  :'(
« Last Edit: 2022-08-06 23:23:17 by DefMettle »