Terence's Party Mechanic FAQ is wrong ?!

[Armorvil]

If you don't know what it is, check out GameFaqs' FAQ section of FFVII PSX. His great FAQs detailing the game mechanics are in there.

Here is the reason for this topic's creation. In the Party Mechanics FAQ, HP Plus section, Terence says this :

Notes:
  The maximum additional HP that can be gained through Materia is +100%
  Extra HP Plus Materia over this will only help balance out extra negative
    percentage modifiers

In my mod, for balancing purposes, I decreased the characters' MaxHP. At level 99, no one has more than approx. 1500 HP. The thing is, HP Pluses materia do stack. In my mod, you can easily reach 9000 HP, if not more, with enough mastered HP Pluses. So, either the mechanics are different in the PC version, or he's wrong. Can anyone confirm that they also stack in the PSX version ?

Also, I created a Super HP Plus materia. At level 1, it has the same effect as a mastered HP Plus : HP + 50%. The other levels are :

Level 2 : HP +100%
Level 3 : HP +150%
Level 4 : HP +200%
Level 5 : HP +250%

It works great, and stacks with the other HP Pluses, of course (it will take ages to master ). I was wondering if I could do the same with the EXP Plus and Gil Plus materias (ie. give them more levels)... ...But in Wall Market, their bonuses are displayed differently from HP Plus.

Looking at Exp Plus, for instance, we can see its data :

Level 1 : 24 (exp +50%)
Level 2 : 32 (exp +100%)

So, apparently, 16 means no change (=100%), 8 means half experience (-50% ...so yeah, I guess you could create a materia that would prevent you from gaining exp), 24 is +50%, and 32 means double experience. Since Terence says the maximum bonus to Exp Gain is an additional 100% (+200% total), would it work if I inserted 40 as the modifier for level 3, so exp could be +150%, and insert 48 as the modifier for level 4, so exp gets to +200% ?... ...And couldn't it go even higher ? What's the maximum value for this field, actually ? Something tells me it's FFh, or in other words 255 - so experience could potentially get to +1593,75% ?... ...And is it the same for Gil Plus ?

[Vgr]

I believe Terrence was talking about original game, with the maximum of a HP plus 2 times, so it's 500% for. It will most likely work for the other ones, too, altough testing is yet to be done

[Armorvil]

Mmm... ...Apparently Gil Plus' bug (the first level will already double your gil, instead of adding 50% to it) consists of the materia always doubling your gil, no matter the value you set as its modifiers.

EDIT:

Got off my lazy butt and anwered my last questions through testing. Gil Plus materias don't stack, since +100% is the max. Same with Exp Plus : +100% is the max, but since Exp Plus's first level works right, you can use two one-star Exp Plus to reach the maximum bonus.

There is also another mistake :

Materia Name: Gil Plus
Desc: Earn more Gil after battles
HP:    -     Str:  -    Vit:  -    Dex:  -
MP:    -     Mag:  -    Spr:  -    Lck: +1

Lvl  Ability Gained                                      Total AP Req
 1   +150% Gil Gain                                      0
 2   +200% Gil Gain                                      80000
 3   --                                                  150000

Notes:
  Maximum bonus to Gil Gain is an additional 100% (200% total)
  BUG: Due to a bug in the game, even a 1-star Gil Plus Materia will give you
    the maximum of 200% Gil per battle

It should read +50% Gil Gain and +100% Gil Gain respectively, since +200% means the amount triples, whereas Gil Plus only doubles gil earned. And the word "additional" is confusion-inducing, since you're led to believe equipping another could triple your gil (it can't).

Now, only my question regarding HP Plus remains.

[Aali]

If you didn't know this already, the 9999 limit break patch removes (or atleast greatly increases) the HP plus limit. So if you're using that it would explain the results you're seeing.

[Armorvil]

Ahhhh, I didn't know that ! Thanks Aali, this explains everything

And there goes my Super HP Plus
Does anyone know how to implement this "HP Plus cap removal" into the psx version ? Or am I forced to remove it from the pc version for consistency's sake ?

[Kudistos Megistos]

Question:

Why is this thread in General? Surely this is a Reverse Engineering topic?

And I'm now absolutely terrified. Terence Fergusson's Game Mechanics dox are like Holy Scripture 'round these parts. All of our work is based on his teachings. If they're wrong, we're all in trouble.

[Armorvil]

I wasn't sure this would fit into Reverse Engineering. Still, aside from the small mistake I mentioned (probably a typo), Terence's FAQs are yet to be proven wrong. I read them all, and I couldn't spot any mistake based on my own experience of the game.

[nfitc1]

Question:

Why is this thread in General? Surely this is a Reverse Engineering topic?

And I'm now absolutely terrified. Terence Fergusson's Game Mechanics dox are like Holy Scripture 'round these parts. All of our work is based on his teachings. If they're wrong, we're all in trouble.

Calm yourself, child. Terence isn't wrong. He's just not explaining things technically.
Stat bonuses get saved as percentages. Since the percentage is stored as a word and cumulative it can go up to 65535%.
CAVEAT: before they're applied they're all forced to be no greater than 100. So while it is possible that your HP Pluses can grant you +255% of a stat each, the total bonus will be reduced to 100%.

Gil is also forced to be between 100% and 200% of the defeated enemies' gil. It will never be greater than double and never less than single.

[poofacetherisen]

Calm yourself, child. Terence isn't wrong. He's just not explaining things technically.
Stat bonuses get saved as percentages. Since the percentage is stored as a word and cumulative it can go up to 65535%.
CAVEAT: before they're applied they're all forced to be no greater than 100. So while it is possible that your HP Pluses can grant you +255% of a stat each, the total bonus will be reduced to 100%.

Gil is also forced to be between 100% and 200% of the defeated enemies' gil. It will never be greater than double and never less than single.

Do you think that "forcing" value would be in the .exe in a raw form (e.g. 64h = 100%)? Maybe the value could be found alongside some simple algorithms too near battle related addresses.

[nfitc1]

Do you think that "forcing" value would be in the .exe in a raw form (e.g. 64h = 100%)? Maybe the value could be found alongside some simple algorithms too near battle related addresses.

I don't just think it. I personally confirmed it before typing that response. That whole limiting section could be skipped over easily and unlimit quite a few things. It limits 14 11 stat bonuses like strength, dexterity, vitality, etc. The Gil bonus limiter is elsewhere, but it's not handled correctly in the code. The materia assumes that the modifiers will become the Gil bonus, the exe ADDS the modifiers to the bonus which is inited as 16 (I think).

Edit:
To justify this being in Reverse Engineering: change 0x1CD932 in the exe from 7D to EB and you'll remove the limiter on those eleven stats. My notes say these are: Strength, Vitality, Magic, Spirit, Speed, Luck, Attack, Defense, HP, MP, Exp, and something to do with Level. Now they can go up to 65535%, although stats will still be limited to a single byte. Exp Bonus being that high would be sweet though. Exp bonus is limited to a byte too.

The Gil reward is in a different place, but is essentially the same change: 0x1CD833 from 7E to EB AND 0x1CA66C from 7E to EB. That'll let you win as much as 255 / 16 times the amount of gil you normally would out of a battle.

[Armorvil]

Great! I wish we could do the same of the PSX version...

[Vgr]

Some MNU file?

[nfitc1]

It happens as the materia's equipped if that helps any.

[Vgr]

That could.