Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]  (Read 3028676 times)

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2425 on: 2016-01-12 20:35:07 »
There is a reason why it's likely crime more than climb.  Luksy explained to me it's some dopey kind of (japanese?) reasoning.

You see, I think it's that crime is hazardous... in the sense that this is a bad ass move.  That's about what I remember anyway.  It really doesn't work as a name on any level - but they made it that way.  Hell, Omnislash is really "Super Ultimate War-God Supreme Slash"  - but that one HAD to be changed. I did make a few concessions, but I can't just start changing things because they're crap.  They're crap because of the original author then so be it - usually. There does come a point where a localizer can start becoming the writer - and that's not the job description.

edit.

"[Possibly Climb Hazard.
Luksy says Crime is more likely from
a Japanese point of view, as in
the attack is a hazard to criminals.
Either way, this is a silly name that
doesn't work well in English or Japanese]"

<
« Last Edit: 2016-01-12 20:52:43 by DLPB »

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2426 on: 2016-01-12 20:54:34 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropogenic_hazard

Perhaps that's what they're getting at. Ultimately.

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2427 on: 2016-01-12 21:18:00 »
Lol what weird reasoning to give it that name.:-)

Hyperthesis

  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2428 on: 2016-01-12 22:45:04 »
Climhazzard in Japanese is クライムハザード (Kuraimu Hazado). Phonetically, Kuraimu is either Crime or Climb, while Hazado is Hazard. Crime could work, for all the reasons listed above. I, however, am partial to Climb. After running through an enemy with his sword, Cloud essentially "climbs" up into the air. This is consistent with at least one dictionary definition of the word "climb":

Quote from: Merriam-Webster
Full Definition of climb
intransitive verb
1 a :  to go upward with gradual or continuous progress :  rise, ascend <watching the smoke climb>

If you observe Climhazzard in other games, you'll see that while aspects of the swordplay vary, this Limit Break always incorporates a sharp, rapid ascent into the air from either the ground or the enemy itself. (In the case of Advent Children, Cloud quite-literally climbs Bahamut SIN as he bifurcates him, before leaping even higher into the sky).
« Last Edit: 2016-01-12 22:48:09 by Hyperthesis »

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2429 on: 2016-01-12 22:46:56 »
My thoughts exactly though you explained it much better than me.

obesebear

  • *
  • Posts: 1389
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2430 on: 2016-01-12 23:13:21 »
If it doesn't work well in japanese or english, I think climb is the way to go.  He is literally climbing into the air, and I sincerely doubt all of those enemies are guilty of a crime...

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2431 on: 2016-01-12 23:18:49 »
If it doesn't work well in japanese or english, I think climb is the way to go.  He is literally climbing into the air, and I sincerely doubt all of those enemies are guilty of a crime...
Lol that. ^_^

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2432 on: 2016-01-12 23:27:23 »
"Climb" for me is slightly weaker because if the name were meant to be descriptive then "Rise/Rising Hazard" or especially "Jump Hazard" might have been more likely, although the only basis I have for this is a gut feeling.

One of the comments on the Japanese FF wiki makes a circular reference to the English to make the claim that neither crime nor climb is the origin, so it's safe to say that at least some Japanese gamers out there are just as confused by the name as we are, which isn't a good sign.

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2433 on: 2016-01-12 23:35:30 »
Well rising hazard is the most fitting name so far of all.

Hyperthesis

  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2434 on: 2016-01-12 23:38:52 »
"Climb" for me is slightly weaker because if the name were meant to be descriptive then "Rise/Rising Hazard" or especially "Jump Hazard" might have been more likely, although the only basis I have for this is a gut feeling.

One of the comments on the Japanese FF wiki makes a circular reference to the English to make the claim that neither crime nor climb is the origin, so it's safe to say that at least some Japanese gamers out there are just as confused by the name as we are, which isn't a good sign.

You're right. The original name in Japanese is nonsensical, which means choosing climb vs. crime, or vice versa, is completely arbitrary.

That being said, another reason one might consider climb over crime is the nomenclature of Cloud's Limit Breaks in general - each one is more or less a literal description of the physical action/motion:

Braver/Brave Slash (FFT): Self-explanatory. It takes a lot of balls to run up to an enemy and raise your sword overhead, leaving your torso completely open to attack, while you prepare to deliver a crushing blow.  ::)
Curse Slash: A rune/kanji that cuts into the enemy, causing Paralysis.
Rending Light: A light/beam projectile that splinters into smaller, secondary projectiles.
Meteorain: Raining meteors. 'Nuff said.
Finishing Touch: A vortex that causes insta-Death to most enemies, literally finishing them.
Omnislash: Omni = all or every, which is appropriate as this move hits the enemy with every type of slash conceivable. (Interestingly, the Japanese name for this Limit Break literally translates to "Super Ultimate Martial God Supreme Slash", which is just as appropriate.)

Bottom line, in the context of all the other Limit Breaks, Climb Hazard (or some derivative of that) is the only name that fits.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-12 23:52:17 by Hyperthesis »

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2435 on: 2016-01-13 00:12:55 »
You're right. The original name in Japanese is nonsensical, which means choosing climb vs. crime, or vice versa, is completely arbitrary.

That being said, another reason one might consider climb over crime is the nomenclature of Cloud's Limit Breaks in general - each one is more or less a literal description of the physical action/motion:

Braver/Brave Slash (FFT): Self-explanatory. It takes a lot of balls to run up to an enemy and raise your sword overhead, leaving your torso completely open to attack, while you prepare to deliver a crushing blow.  ::)
Curse Slash: A rune/kanji that cuts into the enemy, causing Paralysis.
Rending Light: A light/beam projectile that splinters into smaller, secondary projectiles.
Meteorain: Raining meteors. 'Nuff said.
Finishing Touch: A vortex that causes insta-Death to most enemies, literally finishing them.
Omnislash: Omni = all or every, which is appropriate as this move hits the enemy with every type of slash conceivable. (Interestingly, the Japanese name for this Limit Break literally translates to "Super Ultimate Martial God Supreme Slash", which is just as appropriate.)

Bottom line, in the context of all the other Limit Breaks, Climb Hazard (or some derivative of that) is the only name that fits.

IMO going directly from the Japanese, "Braver" on its own isn't descriptive, and 凶斬り could be interpreted as "slashing/killing the wicked" rather than a literal "cursed slash" (in fact I may have changed my mind on this). I'm the first person to say that Crime Hazard sounds dumb in English, but I think it fits with these other "heroic" moves.

WatashiWaZero

  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2436 on: 2016-01-13 01:15:51 »
The employee that gives you the keycard to the 68th floor says:

"...
  I only did what Dr Hojo told me to do."

Dr -> Dr.

That is assuming you consider abbreviations to have periods; otherwise, ignore post.

Shasta McNasty

  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2437 on: 2016-01-13 02:29:01 »
"Climb hazard" would make the most sense in this context, but in other games that it appears (such as Final Fantasy IX), it doesn't always involve a climbing motion.  So "climb" may not actually be what it refers to.  Check out 4:33-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDNTzskZwY

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2438 on: 2016-01-13 04:53:50 »
The employee that gives you the keycard to the 68th floor says:

"...
  I only did what Dr Hojo told me to do."

Dr -> Dr.

That is assuming you consider abbreviations to have periods; otherwise, ignore post.

That's an American / British thing and is changed by the option.

As for "climb"  - he isn't climbing in that animation.  He stabs, then jumps. We can try to bend and expand the meaning to fit our theory, but that's not really a good answer.  Neither Climb nor Crime make any sense, very likely because Crime is intended for the crap reason above.  It may be wise to change this to something like Blade Hazard, if people are really getting so confused.  But I'd rather not, since this issue is the issue of the writing team - and not a mistake.

edit.  What SM said above too - regarding FF9.  Although the move did originate with FF7.

We really have two options:  1. Keep Crime Hazard, because that's more likely intended.  2. Take a liberty, but that means overstepping the mark.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-13 05:29:03 by DLPB »

White Wind

  • *
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2439 on: 2016-01-13 05:38:55 »
I will just say I'm more convinced by the arguments favouring Crime Hazard. And I see a better connection between the words Crime and Hazard than between Climb and Hazard.

BaconCatBug

  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2440 on: 2016-01-13 08:57:39 »
Ok, I am sorry for causing an argument. Just my opinion. (That being said, is the sadness/anger thing a bug?)

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2441 on: 2016-01-13 09:46:21 »
You haven't caused an argument - it's an important thing to debate. Especially since this particular item pops up a lot.

I'll check Sadness / Anger thing and put it on bug tracker if so.  That's assuming you didn't select the "new colours" option in R04c.

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2442 on: 2016-01-13 09:48:11 »
Well in that case i vote for blade hazzard, its less confusing, or climb Hazzard, its more comprehensive visualy, at least for me.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2443 on: 2016-01-13 09:49:33 »
Climb Hazard ain't in the running.  That would just be substituting something crap and correct with something crap and a mistake :P  If this does get changed from Crime Hazard, there will have to be a nice name given to it at the least.  Containing Hazard so it isn't too far away.  But, like I said, I'd really rather not.  This is not the fault of this project - it's the fault of the writing.  It would be like changing dialogue simply because you don't like it.  In fact, I recall an interview with the person who worked on MGS2 localization. (She?) said that it was a nightmare because there's only so much you can do with crap writing.  Plus Kojima was adamant that certain phrases or words would not be changed.  He had a whole list - like "sneak".  While I sympathize with her, she also didn't seem to accept that this was not her game.  And however bad or silly the writing or phrase, it's not her job or mine to start changing things because they are bad.  Only within certain boundaries.

This isn't THAT much of a deal compared to changing Cloud's age or something - but it still matters.  I'm reluctant to edit things that were clearly intended.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-13 14:00:58 by DLPB »

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2444 on: 2016-01-13 09:57:02 »
You said the raspberry word! :O Omg omg omg i know i know i know! Jump hazard! Or hop hazard! Or or or up(ercut) hazard! You get it? Uper/cut hazard? Ok now im just being (smart) silly. ;-)

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2445 on: 2016-01-13 10:00:21 »
See, if this were my game (or I was given permission to change things that sound ridiculous), that move would be something like

"Rising Sword" "Rising Blade" "Ascension" - or some other phrase or word.  It would not be "Crime Hazard".

But - there is a possibility that this move was meant to convey "Climbing" as in "Rising".  If that were the case, Rising/Climbing Hazard would be viable.  But that's just pure guesswork.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-13 10:06:05 by DLPB »

lionheart82

  • *
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2446 on: 2016-01-13 10:03:49 »
Hey im all for it, hazard part is also cramping the name, rising blade is quite good, has a nice ring to it. Ascencion sounds too strong for it, id give it to some stronger tech though... Well iirc you said you wont give anymore options to change stuff ingame and it was mentioned to use toughscript to change names?  Right? Then ill use that name, it great and goes well with that limit.

Shasta McNasty

  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2447 on: 2016-01-13 13:21:30 »
Quote
It may be wise to change this to something like Blade Hazard, if people are really getting so confused.  But I'd rather not, since this issue is the issue of the writing team - and not a mistake.

Don't do it, man.  My vote is to keep Crime Hazard.  Changing stuff like that is likely to just piss people off, and is less respectful to the original Japanese version of the game (ridiculous as the name may sound), which runs counter to the whole point of the retranslation (to a degree, anyway).

I agree with your assertion that taking too many liberties would seem out of bounds, a la your Metal Gear Solid 2 example.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-13 13:27:42 by Shasta McNasty »

BaconCatBug

  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2448 on: 2016-01-13 13:49:41 »
You haven't caused an argument - it's an important thing to debate. Especially since this particular item pops up a lot.

I'll check Sadness / Anger thing and put it on bug tracker if so.  That's assuming you didn't select the "new colours" option in R04c.
Oh, erm... I am not sure because I am using 7th heaven's version. I did not realise there was an option or I would have mentioned it. Sorry

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2449 on: 2016-01-13 14:05:29 »
It would have helped if the ff9 localization team had fixed it.  But, for some crazy reason, they decided to use FF7's.  They likely had some silly list given to them.  Funnily enough with FF9, it also uses the literal "Annihilated" for Game Over.  Annihilated is what the Japanese says - but a better localization is Wiped Out, which is what I use.  It goes to show you that even the professionals make rather sloppy choices.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-13 14:07:04 by DLPB »