Author Topic: What truly happened in Nibelheim??  (Read 32783 times)

nikfrozty

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What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« on: 2010-05-27 13:32:49 »
This has been bugging me. In Cloud's memory Nibelheim burnt down but he wasn't their it was Zack right?? So I assumed that Nibelheim didn't really burn since Cloud's memory has been twisted. But when in the lifestream with Tifa the truth was revealed that Cloud wasn't the Soldier Sephiroth came with but he's still with them as a Shinra Soldier. But the problem is when Zack came outside the Shinra Mansion Nibelheim was burning. So that means it did happen right?? But when you progress into the game Nibelheim didn't burn down and the villagers say the town was never burnt down. So what really happened?? I'm confused. ???
« Last Edit: 2010-05-27 13:34:50 by nikfrozty »

Marc

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #1 on: 2010-05-27 13:37:22 »
Shinra rebuilt it.

It's explained in a letter to Hojo on Tifa's desk the first time you come across it in the field (when you have the buggy after Cosmo Canyon).  In fact, I encourage you to put Tifa in your party at that point and talk to townspeople.

As to why they did well that's another question entirely.

DarkFang

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #2 on: 2010-05-27 13:38:43 »
The incident at Nibelheim was 5 years prior to the beginning of the game. Yes Nibelheim did burn down, but the town was repaired.

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #3 on: 2010-05-27 13:43:51 »
So that means all the real townspeople in the game died and was also replaced by Shinra?? But how do you explain Vincent?? In Crisis Core Zack came to the mansion and he sees the tomb of Vincent but he don't touch it right?? So Shinra does not touch or change anything in the Shinra Mansion only the town houses?? And what happened to Zangan and Tifa's dad?? Have too many questions sorry.

EDIT:Forget about the question about the townspeople I've seen the report.
« Last Edit: 2010-05-27 13:55:12 by nikfrozty »

nfitc1

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #4 on: 2010-05-27 14:46:11 »
So that means all the real townspeople in the game died and was also replaced by Shinra?? But how do you explain Vincent?? In Crisis Core Zack came to the mansion and he sees the tomb of Vincent but he don't touch it right?? So Shinra does not touch or change anything in the Shinra Mansion only the town houses?? And what happened to Zangan and Tifa's dad?? Have too many questions sorry.

EDIT:Forget about the question about the townspeople I've seen the report.

Zangan left. The letter to Tifa you find later says such. Tifa's dad was killed by Sephiroth (probably trying to stop him from getting inside Jenova's chamber). As for the Shinra Mansion, it wasn't touched. We don't know how or why Sephiroth decided to burn the town or how he did so so quickly after leaving the Mansion's basement. Shinra covered it up because they wanted Sephiroth to remain a hero in the eyes of the people. If word spread that one of Shinra's best SOLDIERs went crazy and torched a town they'd lose faith in Shinra. So they rebuilt the town completely and hired people to pretend like nothing happened.

DLPB_

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #5 on: 2010-05-27 15:12:45 »
It is simple, forget the prequels and sequels as they were never intended.  But yes it has been answered above :)

BlitzNCS

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #6 on: 2010-05-27 15:18:33 »
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nibelheim.png
http://ff7.fr/screen/nibelheim.png

This might be of some relevance. I hadn't noticed it until recently, when Espio showed me.
The games uses 2 different renders of nibelheim, one before and one after it was rebuilt

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #7 on: 2010-05-27 15:20:44 »
So that means all the real townspeople in the game died and was also replaced by Shinra?? But how do you explain Vincent?? In Crisis Core Zack came to the mansion and he sees the tomb of Vincent but he don't touch it right?? So Shinra does not touch or change anything in the Shinra Mansion only the town houses?? And what happened to Zangan and Tifa's dad?? Have too many questions sorry.

EDIT:Forget about the question about the townspeople I've seen the report.

Zangan left. The letter to Tifa you find later says such. Tifa's dad was killed by Sephiroth (probably trying to stop him from getting inside Jenova's chamber). As for the Shinra Mansion, it wasn't touched. We don't know how or why Sephiroth decided to burn the town or how he did so so quickly after leaving the Mansion's basement. Shinra covered it up because they wanted Sephiroth to remain a hero in the eyes of the people. If word spread that one of Shinra's best SOLDIERs went crazy and torched a town they'd lose faith in Shinra. So they rebuilt the town completely and hired people to pretend like nothing happened.
So that's what happened. Thanks for the explanation. Vincent really sleep well that day he didn't hear any of the ruckus outside the mansion. Well in fact he was in the basement or he doesn't care that time.

obesebear

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #8 on: 2010-05-27 15:32:31 »
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nibelheim.png
http://ff7.fr/screen/nibelheim.png

This might be of some relevance. I hadn't noticed it until recently, when Espio showed me.
The games uses 2 different renders of nibelheim, one before and one after it was rebuilt

I thought so.   Something always seemed a little off with the scene, but I could never put my finger on it

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #9 on: 2010-05-27 15:41:40 »
The first thing I noticed was that it was brighter and their seems to be this post in front of the mansion which is not present in the first one. Their are round things on top of what I think is the chimney of the house and many more but not too obvious. Hmm :-\

DarkFang

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #10 on: 2010-05-27 15:44:57 »
I actually never noticed they used two different renders of the town.

jeffdamann

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #11 on: 2010-05-27 17:21:26 »
So that means all the real townspeople in the game died and was also replaced by Shinra?? But how do you explain Vincent?? In Crisis Core Zack came to the mansion and he sees the tomb of Vincent but he don't touch it right?? So Shinra does not touch or change anything in the Shinra Mansion only the town houses?? And what happened to Zangan and Tifa's dad?? Have too many questions sorry.

EDIT:Forget about the question about the townspeople I've seen the report.

Zangan left. The letter to Tifa you find later says such. Tifa's dad was killed by Sephiroth (probably trying to stop him from getting inside Jenova's chamber). As for the Shinra Mansion, it wasn't touched. We don't know how or why Sephiroth decided to burn the town or how he did so so quickly after leaving the Mansion's basement. Shinra covered it up because they wanted Sephiroth to remain a hero in the eyes of the people. If word spread that one of Shinra's best SOLDIERs went crazy and torched a town they'd lose faith in Shinra. So they rebuilt the town completely and hired people to pretend like nothing happened.


I always try to put myself in characters positions and also more in a novel sense than a game sense. I forget the limitations provided by the games gprahical and animation procedures and try to imagine their world as my own,as If I were really cloud or sephiroth.

Here's my analysis.
Sephrioth's entire life and being were challenged when he saw the experiments going on in that reactor.In an already troubled life not knowing exactly where you came from, coupled with the horror of reality, made him snap.

After studying to learn his past, cloud comes, and sephiroth enters the final stage of his insanity.

Seeing how Sephiroth is so powerful, it would make sense that he is VERY fast, I always assumed he was MUCH faster than cloud, and upon exiting the mansion, he cast the mother of all fire spells on the town so that he would not have anyone in his way and could slow you down.

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #12 on: 2010-05-27 17:29:10 »
So that means all the real townspeople in the game died and was also replaced by Shinra?? But how do you explain Vincent?? In Crisis Core Zack came to the mansion and he sees the tomb of Vincent but he don't touch it right?? So Shinra does not touch or change anything in the Shinra Mansion only the town houses?? And what happened to Zangan and Tifa's dad?? Have too many questions sorry.

EDIT:Forget about the question about the townspeople I've seen the report.

Zangan left. The letter to Tifa you find later says such. Tifa's dad was killed by Sephiroth (probably trying to stop him from getting inside Jenova's chamber). As for the Shinra Mansion, it wasn't touched. We don't know how or why Sephiroth decided to burn the town or how he did so so quickly after leaving the Mansion's basement. Shinra covered it up because they wanted Sephiroth to remain a hero in the eyes of the people. If word spread that one of Shinra's best SOLDIERs went crazy and torched a town they'd lose faith in Shinra. So they rebuilt the town completely and hired people to pretend like nothing happened.


I always try to put myself in characters positions and also more in a novel sense than a game sense. I forget the limitations provided by the games gprahical and animation procedures and try to imagine their world as my own,as If I were really cloud or sephiroth.

Here's my analysis.
Sephrioth's entire life and being were challenged when he saw the experiments going on in that reactor.In an already troubled life not knowing exactly where you came from, coupled with the horror of reality, made him snap.

After studying to learn his past, cloud comes, and sephiroth enters the final stage of his insanity.

Seeing how Sephiroth is so powerful, it would make sense that he is VERY fast, I always assumed he was MUCH faster than cloud, and upon exiting the mansion, he cast the mother of all fire spells on the town so that he would not have anyone in his way and could slow you down.
Or he could've summon Bahamut to destroy the town or Ifrit. There's no better explanation than magic or summon to the burning town so fast.

Furzball

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #13 on: 2010-05-27 17:52:25 »
He could've also been stressed out cause he had lost both of his only friends during that time. Genesis and Angreal in Crisis Core. Though obvious not in the original game.

Timber

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #14 on: 2010-05-27 17:52:57 »
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nibelheim.png
http://ff7.fr/screen/nibelheim.png

This might be of some relevance. I hadn't noticed it until recently, when Espio showed me.
The games uses 2 different renders of nibelheim, one before and one after it was rebuilt

Wow I never noticed this either.
Very cool, thanks for that.

nfitc1

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #15 on: 2010-05-27 18:16:34 »
http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nibelheim.png
http://ff7.fr/screen/nibelheim.png

This might be of some relevance. I hadn't noticed it until recently, when Espio showed me.
The games uses 2 different renders of nibelheim, one before and one after it was rebuilt

I noticed they were different, but I've never seen them side-by-side.

The top one has street signs and the bottom one doesn't, the well's fan is different, the roof over the building in the lower left is slightly different, the ground isn't cobblestone in the bottom one, and it looks like some different construction materials were used between the two of them. Those are the only differences I see. Other than time of day.

ultima espio

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #16 on: 2010-05-27 18:21:32 »
burnt down and rebuilt over the 5 years. Some people DID survive, those were the people that you see in Nibelheim in black cloaks. Hojo used them as Sephiroth test subjects like Cloud and Zack. The most noticeable one is the two kids in the house next to Tifa's, when you visit them as Cloud in the flashback, one copies the other, and the two in black cloaks do the same when you visit them during disc 1. Due to one being in Tifa's house, its quite possible that Sephiroth didnt actually kill Tifa's father at all, but left him unconscious for Hojo to experiment on.

DarkFang

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #17 on: 2010-05-27 18:22:46 »
burnt down and rebuilt over the 5 years. Some people DID survive, those were the people that you see in Nibelheim in black cloaks. Hojo used them as Sephiroth test subjects like Cloud and Zack. The most noticeable one is the two kids in the house next to Tifa's, when you visit them as Cloud in the flashback, one copies the other, and the two in black cloaks do the same when you visit them during disk 1. Due to one being in Tifa's house, its quite possible that Sephiroth didnt actually kill Tifa's father at all, but left him unconscious for Hojo to experiment on.

It's disc not disk.

Ah ha you changed it. Good.

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #18 on: 2010-05-27 20:01:07 »
burnt down and rebuilt over the 5 years. Some people DID survive, those were the people that you see in Nibelheim in black cloaks. Hojo used them as Sephiroth test subjects like Cloud and Zack. The most noticeable one is the two kids in the house next to Tifa's, when you visit them as Cloud in the flashback, one copies the other, and the two in black cloaks do the same when you visit them during disc 1. Due to one being in Tifa's house, its quite possible that Sephiroth didnt actually kill Tifa's father at all, but left him unconscious for Hojo to experiment on.
So they were made clones of Sephiroth?? So everyone who stayed alive in there was made an experiment like Zack and Cloud. How sad. :-( Last Question, Cloud carried Tifa to the side when she was slashed by Sephiroth right?? It means she was there when Zack and Cloud was used as experiments. Question is what happened to Tifa?? Who healed her and why did she end up on midgar?? I thought it was Zangan who healed her but as you said, Sephiroth killed Zangan.

Gemini

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #19 on: 2010-05-27 20:12:38 »
Sephiroth did not kill Zangan. The game clearly says that Zangan helps Tifa by seeking medical help in Midgar, but then he leaves her behind and continues on his journey.

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #20 on: 2010-05-27 20:39:32 »
Oops I mistook Zangan for Tifa's father. Sorry. I understand the story more. Hmm But I wonder why she ended up working with Barret. Maybe she joined since they were fighting Shinra and its the reason for the loss of many important persons in her life.

Furzball

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #21 on: 2010-05-27 23:17:20 »
Oops I mistook Zangan for Tifa's father. Sorry. I understand the story more. Hmm But I wonder why she ended up working with Barret. Maybe she joined since they were fighting Shinra and its the reason for the loss of many important persons in her life.

DarkFang

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #22 on: 2010-05-27 23:27:49 »
Why wasn't Genesis or Angeal mentioned in Final Fantasy VII or Advent Children?

nikfrozty

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #23 on: 2010-05-27 23:42:19 »
I guess back then they do not exist yet or square-enix don't have a story for Zack so there's no Genesis or Angeal. I saw in some site that square-enix saw that there was actually a story for Zack written by Tetsuya Nomura. I'm not sure if its Tetsuya I can't remember but I'm sure he was also involved in the main game. When they knew about the story of Zack Crisis Core was born. :)

Jaitsu

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Re: What truly happened in Nibelheim??
« Reply #24 on: 2010-05-28 03:06:54 »
oh, cloud was there, he was just one of the MPs though, not an actual soldier.