Kingdom Hearts series

[Vgr]

Now, let's talk about another of Square's greatest games; Kingdom Hearts. There are (to my knowledge) 4 of them out at the moment : Kingdom Hearts (PS2), Kingdom Hearts 2 (PS2), Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days (NDS) and Kingdom Hearts : Birth by Sleep (PSP). I played the last two named and intend to play all four. I found them to be pretty good games. What about you?

If you don't know (in any case), Kingdom Hearts is a fusion between Final Fantasy and Walt Disney, with lots of new characters aswell. As a Final Fantasy fan, you MUST at least play once one of them. My opinion.

[DarkFang]

There's six currently out not including remakes or remixes. Kingdom Hearts (PS2), Kingdom Hearts II (PS2), Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (GBA/PS2), Kingdom Hearts: coded (DS), Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep (PSP), Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days (DS), Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance (3DS), and possibly Kingdom Hearts III (PS3?).

I personally couldn't understand half of the story when I was finished with the first one. Then I skipped Chain of Memories and went straight to II which caused even more confusion. I also thought the characters were annoying most of the time. But I did like the gameplay.

[Vgr]

Yeah, pretty good. Thanks for updating me If I could ever put my hand on Chain of Memories, I'd buy it for sure. For Re: Coded, I won't bother buying it before having myself a DS. Emulators might do, but since I already have a GBA, I'd rather play it on that

[Covarr]

Re:Chain of Memories is really good, and in many ways my favorite of the series. I really liked the card system (and I'm probably the only person who did), and combined with a more fluid 3D environment like I and II, it's really fun, but the GBA version obviously couldn't handle it so it plays mostly the same but less fluid and not as 3D. The only real problem is that it seems to be based on KH1's engine, not KH2's, and so it has the same broken camera.

[DarkFang]

I absolutely DESPISED the card system in Chain of Memories. That's exactly why I skipped it and went to II.

[Vgr]

Hehe, so my friend (a very big fan of the Kingdom Hearts series) wrote me all 6 in chronological order :

Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts Re: Coded
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
Kingdom Hearts II

I played two of them already, and intend to play all 6 sooner or later. Very good games. Even better than Final Fantasies, IMO.

[DarkFang]

It depends on how you look at it.

Birth by Sleep (Main Story)
Kingdom Hearts (Begun)
358/2 Days (Begun)
Kingdom Hearts (Ended)
Chain of Memories
358/2 Days (Ended)
Kingdom Hearts II (Main Story)
coded
Kingdom Hearts II (Epilogue)
Birth by Sleep (Epilogue)

I got that from the Kingdom Hearts Wiki.

However, in my opinion, I think the order goes like this:

Birth by Sleep
Kingdom Hearts
358/2 Days
Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts II
coded

The story is so convoluted, the order could go any way you want and it still wouldn't make sense.

[gjoerulv]

Weren't these games aimed at kids?

lol I've never tested 'em thus may seem prejudicial here. In all fairness I suspect I wouldn't like any of these games, mainly 'cause of the characters. In the clips I've seen they appear very annoying.

I must admit they fit in a disney world. The gameplay looks fun. Still, I believe I'll never try 'em out.

[Vgr]

Well, I am currently playing Kingdom Hearts, the first one on PS2, and I don't like it so much. I prefer 358/2 Days or BbS.

[Raestloz]

Well, I am currently playing Kingdom Hearts, the first one on PS2, and I don't like it so much. I prefer 358/2 Days or BbS.

I skipped right to KH2. The first is troublesome both in control and camera

Besides, KH's story is BS anyway. It's so confusing you don't know which is first. In fact, even if you switch them around, they can still fit in somehow

The best system seemed to be either Birth By Sleep's or Re:Coded's (which is a tweak from BBS's). KH2's system is prety fun, but with all kinds of context sitting at triangle button, I can't figure out how to execute a proper combo

KH series will need to stop someday, right now they're throwing in so many stuff it's starting to look like FFVII

Also, I'm not one to call, but their artist seriously lacks creativity. How many times have Roxas and Riku's design been used? Just about anything that needs serious babysitting can become Riku somehow

[BlitzNCS]

Besides, KH's story is BS anyway. It's so confusing you don't know which is first.

The Same's been said about FFXIII's story - I don't think complexity of a story is at all a bad thing - most of the time the inablility to understand it fully is counterracted by playing it again a short while after. If anything, KH's complex story only adds to it's appeal, it's not written to be completely accessible from the get-go.

I like the systems of the portable KH games a lot, but they're a lot less 'free' than KH2's system is. Also, combo's in the KH games are generally done by mashing X a lot (sometimes square depending on how many ablilites you have/how much you understand the battle system)

How many times have Roxas and Riku's design been used?

Well, Roxas' heads' design has admittedly been used twice for two different characters - but it was used as a plot device, so you can't really blame nomura for doing it. To my knowlege, Riku's design was only ever used for Riku. If you're referring to Vanitas, the similarity was also used as a plot device, and he was still redesigned slightly. You can't honestly be trying to say that the KH series lacks creativity because there is just no way.

...Not that I'm trying to passionately defend KH or anything. xD

Well, I am currently playing Kingdom Hearts, the first one on PS2, and I don't like it so much. I prefer 358/2 Days or BbS.

I heavily reccommend sticking with it so long as you make it to KHII. In my rather biased opinion, KHIIFM+ was the best game for PS2 ever

On the idea that it was aimed at kids, I think it was supposed to be aimed at a really wide range of audiences, not just kids. Obviously, they use some Disney elements to get the majority of children on board, but the age of the Disney films they incorporated allowed them to create nostalgia in a much wider array of people. Added to that, I think some of the aspects of the main story are pretty out of reach of young kids anyway. I dunno really, just my thoughts.

As you can probably tell, I am/was a bit of a KH fanatic. Haven't played any of the games recently though.

[Raestloz]

The Same's been said about FFXIII's story - I don't think complexity of a story is at all a bad thing - most of the time the inablility to understand it fully is counterracted by playing it again a short while after. If anything, KH's complex story only adds to it's appeal, it's not written to be completely accessible from the get-go.

I don't know, it seems more like they didn't plan on making KH a big series (a series maybe, but not THAT big) and kinda add stuff like Aqua and the likes to fill demands

Kind of like how Angeal and Genesis got added just so Crisis Core is not all about the mighty Sephiroth, or the addition of "the first generation of AVALANCHE"

I like the systems of the portable KH games a lot, but they're a lot less 'free' than KH2's system is. Also, combo's in the KH games are generally done by mashing X a lot (sometimes square depending on how many ablilites you have/how much you understand the battle system)

Portable KH games offer much more varied system. KH2 combos are pretty much predetermined (which kind of attack executed depends on how many times you've mashed X button)

But seriously. Final Form. 'nuff said.

Well, Roxas' heads' design has admittedly been used twice for two different characters - but it was used as a plot device, so you can't really blame nomura for doing it. To my knowlege, Riku's design was only ever used for Riku. If you're referring to Vanitas, the similarity was also used as a plot device, and he was still redesigned slightly. You can't honestly be trying to say that the KH series lacks creativity because there is just no way.

I'm talking about how they seem to use the same character for just about every type:

For the "Golden Hearted", go with Sora (which becomes Roxas when he got a much deserved haircut, and finally the guy with Sora and Roxas' half clothings sewn together)

For the "looks awesome but actually weak", go with Riku (you need a plot key that is in danger? Make it look like Riku and have him fall to darkness! Seriously, even Simba or Mulan can take care of themselves. What is with the guy?)

For the girl, just go with Kairi (which becomes Namine, and that girl in 358/2 Days, and Aqua)

They need to stop creating generations of basically the same people

[BlitzNCS]

I think I've read in Ultimanias/ Interviews with nomura that he creates the visions for the entire timeline and mysteries surrounding certain events a long time before the next game is developed, in fact I think he already knew what was going to happen in the 3 latest portable games before KHI was even finished. Secret endings sort of tell you that, and plot mysteries are left open generally. (As opposed to with FF7 and CC, where the plot was blatantly closed and solid, yet they prised it back open in stuck in genesis at completely inappropriate parts just so they could advance CC's story a little bit more).

As for the characters being similar to eachother, I said it before - the plot lines involve characters having deep links with one another, on many occasions they're actually the same person in some form or another. I doubt Nomura wrote the storyline based on how much effort he would have to put into designing all the characters later on. Whether this idea is a good plot device is completely down to your own opinion, but I think they've done a good job making every character unique.

And the point of Birth by Sleep was that each character Mimicked the corresponding character from the original game somehow - there are character links which have a lot to do with the plot of the series.
Also, just because Aqua's a girl, doesn't mean she's basically the same as kairi, although there is a vague link. Different characters altogether.

[Raestloz]

I think I've read in Ultimanias/ Interviews with nomura that he creates the visions for the entire timeline and mysteries surrounding certain events a long time before the next game is developed, in fact I think he already knew what was going to happen in the 3 latest portable games before KHI was even finished. Secret endings sort of tell you that, and plot mysteries are left open generally. (As opposed to with FF7 and CC, where the plot was blatantly closed and solid, yet they prised it back open in stuck in genesis at completely inappropriate parts just so they could advance CC's story a little bit more).

As for the characters being similar to eachother, I said it before - the plot lines involve characters having deep links with one another, on many occasions they're actually the same person in some form or another. I doubt Nomura wrote the storyline based on how much effort he would have to put into designing all the characters later on. Whether this idea is a good plot device is completely down to your own opinion, but I think they've done a good job making every character unique.

And the point of Birth by Sleep was that each character Mimicked the corresponding character from the original game somehow - there are character links which have a lot to do with the plot of the series.
Also, just because Aqua's a girl, doesn't mean she's basically the same as kairi, although there is a vague link. Different characters altogether.

That's the beauty of leaving things open: you can fit literally anything (well, okay not ANYthing) and it will be fine

Secret Endings are usually vague at best, or point at predictable future at worst (BBS secret ending points to Sora and Riku gaining even more strength, oh, and KH's version of Aizen is coming back. What? More strength, more final boss?)

I guess it's more because of my principle: I'd rather have movies that patch things up (like telling us how they live their normal life back in the Island) and close things up solid than secret "Endings" that simply point to vague future (and open new project opportunities)

Too much stuff in a series with intertwined stories kinda make it go bad after a while.

[DarkFang]

As for the characters being similar to eachother, I said it before - the plot lines involve characters having deep links with one another, on many occasions they're actually the same person in some form or another. I doubt Nomura wrote the storyline based on how much effort he would have to put into designing all the characters later on. Whether this idea is a good plot device is completely down to your own opinion, but I think they've done a good job making every character unique.

*SPOILER ALERT*

That's the part I really don't understand. According to the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, there's like four different Ansems. There's so many people in the Kingdom Hearts series, it's so confusing trying to figure out who's the Nobody of who, or who the actual person is. Does the game ever tell you about each member of Organization XIII and who their human counterpart is? Isn't Roxas the Nobody of Sora, and Namine the Nobody of Kairi? They both lost their heart in the first Kingdom Hearts, thus creating those two, correct? That's about the only part of the whole story I understand.

[Raestloz]

*SPOILER ALERT*

That's the part I really don't understand. According to the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, there's like four different Ansems. There's so many people in the Kingdom Hearts series, it's so confusing trying to figure out who's the Nobody of who, or who the actual person is. Does the game ever tell you about each member of Organization XIII and who their human counterpart is? Isn't Roxas the Nobody of Sora, and Namine the Nobody of Kairi? They both lost their heart in the first Kingdom Hearts, thus creating those two, correct? That's about the only part of the whole story I understand.

Those two are also a lot more badass than their original counterpart

Sora needs at least one other soul to wield two Keyblades, Roxas needs only manly rage to go (on a side note, Roxas is pretty much Vanitas, so there's that)
And Namine can alter memories, Kairi can only go unseen all the time

Also, if Sora loses his heart once again, will it create another Roxas? I mean, you can go Heartless mode in KH2

That's a lot of Keyblade Badasses

[BlitzNCS]

*SPOILER ALERT*

That's the part I really don't understand. According to the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, there's like four different Ansems. There's so many people in the Kingdom Hearts series, it's so confusing trying to figure out who's the Nobody of who, or who the actual person is. Does the game ever tell you about each member of Organization XIII and who their human counterpart is? Isn't Roxas the Nobody of Sora, and Namine the Nobody of Kairi? They both lost their heart in the first Kingdom Hearts, thus creating those two, correct? That's about the only part of the whole story I understand.

Well, there's only really one Ansem - Ansem the wise. When Terra becomes Xehanort, Xehanort becomes Ansem's apprentice. Eventually, Xehanort becomes a heartless and a nobody, both of whom steal Ansem's name and use it as their own.
The past identities of the entire Organisation XIII aren't known, however it is known that 5 or 6 of them were previously Ansem's apprentices, some are the nobodies of the townspeople who lost their hearts (Axel, Saix), and the rest are recruits that were obtained after they started looking for help (number 9 onwards, I think).
Roxas was the nobody of Sora, and he took on the form of Ventus because Sora's heart comprises partly of Ventus'. Naminé is only the nobody of Kairi in the sense that her heart was within Sora's when he became a heartless.

Will finish this reply later xD

[Nightmarish]

I have KH for ps2. Never really played much of it. 
Found it boring and the chars are just too cartoony.

[Raestloz]

I have KH for ps2. Never really played much of it. 
Found it boring and the chars are just too cartoony.

You certainly have never fought Proud Sephiroth

Heck, Normal Sephiroth is already a pain in the ass if you don't whack him when he starts levitating

But then again, if you already know you have to whack him, Normal and Proud Sephiroth really don't have any difference.

[Tenko Kuugen]

The only actual reason to ever play KH2 for me was to look at all the plotholes and make my own novel based on the universe but without all the disney happiness and the plotholes.
That, and to piss off the yaoi fangirls so that they all kill themselves.

[Nightmarish]

You certainly have never fought Proud Sephiroth

Heck, Normal Sephiroth is already a pain in the ass if you don't whack him when he starts levitating

But then again, if you already know you have to whack him, Normal and Proud Sephiroth really don't have any difference.

I played max 2h of it, so i'm still at the beggining.

[jeffdamann]

I owned sephiroth in KH1 and KH2, but then again IM THE ORIGINAL!

[wall of text] I tried to make it a proper document.

Really though these were great games, even now, and had loads of RPG goodness contained inside. It may not be the most standard of RPGs, but it is a refreshing detour from the mainstream RPGs being pumped out nowadays.

Now I dont know about you, but to me every RPG is worth its weight in gold(albeit some titles dont weigh very much  ) If you can fight to get stronger, find secret items, and have a little story inbetween, you've created a game that I AM going to play, and most likely enjoy.

When they came out, you know you loved it if you played it, why everyone did. The odd mix of Disney and FF and brand new characters oddly wasnt out of place. Never was a like " I have to fight alongside Goofy and Donald?" Contrarily, they were welcome and needed members in my party, who actually had character development, and personality(if only for the games purpose) Even the disney characters you meet in their worlds have their own mini-story and personality.

Personality is a trait that to me isnt seen in many games, and this one has it in spades.Maybe its because I know all the characters, but still, their personalities are even unique when compared to their movie/show personalities.(Save maybe Scrooge Mcduck, hes still an old codger lol, and I guess the winnie the pooh characters, as they act the same as on tv) While on the subject, even Poohland was very entertaining to me, and I thoroughly enjoyed being swept up in Pooh and Co.'s antics.Now if only I could find that last missing page...

And what about Gummi Ships? They were some seriously fun flying machines. Who didnt enjoy custimizing these bad boys for interplanetary battle, I know I did.This one mini game added HOURS of gameplay for me, collecting all the parts, beating all the challenges, etc.

And the music, although forgettable, is very good. I cant play any of it in my head right now like every FF7 music file, but when hearing it I was impressed with the orchestration and its just really enjoyable.

As far as the difficulty goes, if you play it on hard mode these games can get CHALLENGING at times. Made me throw my controller more than once.

Now I've only played 1 and 2, but as i was playing them never once was I confused with the story. It all made perfect sense to me. Sure there were mysteries and things I didnt know, but what story doesnt contain those elements. However mysterious and secretive things were, I was certainly not confused by it.

All in all, after playing 1 and 2, I see nothing wrong with the games, but thats just me, let me leave you with a thought.

I may just be in an antagonistic mood this morning(trust me im not trying to be, dont take offense) But do you guys ACTIVELY look for flaws in games AS you play them? Dont forget how games where for you when you were a child. You werent going around seeing games as "limited" or"confusing" or even "annoying", you were thinking "Awesome Im having so much fun! Woah I kicked that guy! Look I can drive a car!" Maybe my examples suck, but what I mean is you were just happy to be able to kick a guy or drive a car. Hell stomping a goombas head was one of the sweetest moments in my gaming history

[/wall of text]

[Raestloz]

But do you guys ACTIVELY look for flaws in games AS you play them?

No, I don't. In fact, I kinda forgot the difference of graphics settings' effects except for antialiasing during gameplay

That's how uncaring I am about games when I am playing. But now that I'm not playing, I can think clearly and see things differently

And once I begin to play, I start to forget about what I thought before again 

[Opine]

I really loved the first one, but I could not get into the second one.

*SPOILERS*

1st KH) Start off by running around your beautiful island home.
2nd KH) Start off by... getting a job? Seriously..? I already have a job, that's how I afforded this game. I am playing this game to not think about work!

1st) KH, run around exploring new worlds and sealing them all.
2nd) Run around all the same worlds that you already sealed, because they need to be sealed again... Why even have me play the first one?

1st) Run into characters you love in scenerios you didn't expect.
2nd) Run into characters you love as pint size fairies?

/SPOILERS

Meh, just not my thing. I didn't get rid of it, though.
Maybe I'll get around to finishing it some day.

[Covarr]

1st) KH, run around exploring new worlds and sealing them all.
2nd) Run around all the same worlds that you already sealed, because they need to be sealed again... Why even have me play the first one?

You're not re-sealing them. In fact, you're opening them back up, because Sora dun goofed, and sealing them was a non-solution which has prevented him from actually defeating the true villains.

Meh, just not my thing. I didn't get rid of it, though.
Maybe I'll get around to finishing it some day.

I strongly suggest playing this game all the way through. The story REALLY picks up around the final act, and the battles get more fun once you have all of Sora's forms. Some of the later bosses are quite unique and exciting also.