[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[DLPB_]

The text in question:

Code: [Select]

Niblheim
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Huh!?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“But… this all burned down?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then how is this possible?
  My house is still here too.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“The hell’s goin’ on!?
  You imagine it all or somethin’?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Something’s not right.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“What does this mean?”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“{CLOUD},maybe ye
  juist imagined it all?”
------------------------------
x1
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“What the…!?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You said the whole
  village was torched,yeah?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“This is Niblheim,right?
  The village looks fine to me.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“Is this Niblheim?
  You told us it had all burned down.”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“The whole village was wiped
  oot thanks tae Sephiroth.
  At least,that’s what ah heard.”
------------------------------
x2
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“I got told that this
  village was gone!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Were you jus’ messin’ with us?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What’s going on?”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“{CLOUD}…
  Did you lie to us?”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“{CLOUD},
  did ye make up your story
  juist tae gain our sympathy?”
------------------------------
x3
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“What’s wrong?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I was telling the truth!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I remember… the intense
  heat of the flames…”
------------------------------
“…Urrrgh…
  …Calling…
  …Sephiroth is… calling.”
------------------------------
#cy 8
Obtained Mind Source!
------------------------------
“… Great… Sep…hi…roth…
  … is… near.”{NEW}
“…Inside… mansion…
  …Urrrgh…
  …Great… Sep…hi…roth.”
------------------------------
“… Great…Sephi…roth…
  …Gone.”{NEW}
“…Over… the mountains…
  …Gone.”
------------------------------


[White Wind]

Okay, Yuffie's alright, but for his 3rd dialogue  Cait Sith's definitely acting like he was there when Cloud told his story.

and
{BARRET}
“The hell’s goin’ on!?
  You imagine it all or somethin’?”

not "imagined" ?

[DLPB_]

Nah.  It's short for "Did you imagine"

Are you sure Cait isn't present at the Gold Saucer?  He retells the story there.

[White Wind]

Oh okay.

ah.. I don't even remember Cloud talking about it again at the GS  x)  So I can't tell, but if CS heard about it at that moment, then np.

Something else's catching my attention: Sep..hi ? A syllable is cut in half there, the one for the 'f' sound. That reads "sep" + "ee".

[DLPB_]

That's how it is spoken.  It isn't "seph-i-roth"  it's "sep-i-roth"

Also, Cloud doesn't mention that Niblheim was burned down to Cait - so your issue is still relevant. He shouldn't be acting as if Cloud lied.  Although, you can still imagine dialogue took place between different members off-screen, I guess.

[Covarr]

That's how it is spoken.  It isn't "seph-i-roth"  it's "sep-i-roth"

That sounds wrong. Literally every time I've ever heard it in any official media (which I know isn't a solid basis in many cases), it's been pronounced sef-i-roth. But more importantly, in Hebrew it would be sef-ee-rote. Hell, even some Japanese materials call him Sefiros or Sefirot. I can't find any linguistic basis for a hard p there.

[White Wind]

I can assume it with a phrase like “{CLOUD}, maybe ye juist imagined it all?”
but “{CLOUD}, did ye make up your story juist tae gain our sympathy?” seems to imply he has heared the full story.. Like Cloud took another hour to talk about it a second time? in an ellipsed moment.. meh

And anyway, depending on members, Cait Sith says he heard it from Cloud, or that he's just heard of it, like randomly: "At least, that’s what ah heard." So even there that's not consistent.
That 2nd sentence likely implies that Reeve got to know about it due to his position in the Shin-Ra.

[DLPB_]

That sounds wrong. Literally every time I've ever heard it in any official media (which I know isn't a solid basis in many cases), it's been pronounced sef-i-roth. But more importantly, in Hebrew it would be sef-ee-rote. Hell, even some Japanese materials call him Sefiros or Sefirot. I can't find any linguistic basis for a hard p there.

I forgot about the hebrew, but yeah I guess you're right, because it comes from "sefirot". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephirot  is that "sef" or "sep".

; Hebrew: סְפִירוֹת‎ Səphîrôṯ

@whitewind -  yeah, the second one might even be my attempt to make sense of it.  I#ll have to speak to Luksy.  But I wouldn't be surprised if this is an original writing error.

edit

セフィロス (Sefirosu?)

That puts pay to it, really. It's a hard f.  Not sure why I thought it was sep - I used to use Seph as a kid.

[DLPB_]

“… Great… Seph…i…roth…
  … is… near.”{NEW}
“…Inside… mansion…
  …Urrrgh…
  …Great… Seph…i…roth.”
------------------------------
“… Great…Sephi…roth…
  …Gone.”{NEW}
“…Over… the mountains…
  …Gone.”
----------------

Corrected in nivl_3

[White Wind]

"ph" is always pronounced 'f' I think, like in "catastrophe".

But in your correction, the syllables are still not correctly separated (if we're basing it on syllables, that is). The syllables are Se - phi - roth. That's how the word is naturally divided. "Seph - i" just breaks "phi" in the middle of it.

[DLPB_]

Seph is the same as "sef" - and these dudes are just talking strangely.  I don't think it matters if it's seph-i-roth or "se-phi-roth".  However, to me, the fact this comes from "sef" means seph is actually the first syllable? Seph is one syllable, the same as Sef.  When I say Sephiroth it is Sef-i-roth.

Seph is one syllable, the same as the male name Seth.

[DynamixDJ]

Lol, legitimately curious as to why you've made Cait Sith sound Scottish?

@White Wind - Hey nice one for compiling that list, I would most definitely like a sneak peak at it. I've started compiling my own starting with the post I made the other day, I've added one thing to it regarding "Special" enemy formations being incorrectly placed in a normal battle slot, and vica-versa. I was going to (eventually) start my own topic, but with 256 entries (or the magic 100h) you're definitely the appropriate candidate.

I'm going to be actively looking for bugs and anomalies from now on, and reporting them here (I really wish I'd started doing this sooner, because I've spotted quite a few things in the past few months). Which brings me to my next question - DB, do you think that the optional Gongaga scene involving Barret ("gonjun1") was intentionally removed.... before posting I looked at your flevel.lgp, and I can see that you have deleted the line in the back of the Church (variable [3][129] Bit5) that disables this scene from playing.... So i guess you DO regard this as an unintentional mistake.

So.... what exactly were they trying to do in the back of the Church with variable 3-129 Bit5 d'ya think?

And in regards to the pronunciation of Sephiroth.... to me I think Se-phi-roth sounds more fitting than Seph-i-roth... but that's just me 

[DLPB_]

No idea - it's just a rogue var that ended up being set - and wrecked the Gongaga scene.

[White Wind]

If the word was 'sef' or 'seph', then it has just one syllable (one 'breath' to pronounce it, and it has one vowel). Now add any one vowel to it, and you have two syllables: se-fi, se-fa, ... (two 'breathes', two vowels)

also: se-fir
but: se-fi-ro
se-fi-rot
se-fi-ro-tu
and so on

[DLPB_]

"i" can surely be a syllable on its own? 

Seph-i-roth  is how it would be spoken when considering "seph" as one syllable.  Or maybe it can be both.  It depends.  I can pronounce either correctly.

Regardless, it still works in the scene, because "seph" is the correct pronunciation.

[DynamixDJ]

No idea - it's just a rogue var that ended up being set - and wrecked the Gongaga scene.

A scene that could have been valuable for the PS4 players, given the trophy criteria (Best Bromance). I particularly like the dialogue if you choose "not interested"

[White Wind]

"i" can be a syllable yeah, but it depends on its position in the word.

"Seph" is a syllable when there's no other vowel after. Add any vowel after it, and "Seph" is not the syllable anymore, because "-ph" becomes the beginning of the 2nd syllable.
"Is" = 1: is
"Iseph" = 2: i-seph ('s' not part of the 1st syllable anymore)
"Isepho" = 3: i-se-pho ('ph' not part of the 2nd syllable anymore)

In the case of "Seph-i-roth", "i" alone is not a syllable but a phoneme, as are the sounds "S" "e" "f" "r" "o" "t".. all phonemes.
A syllable is a group of phonemes based on a pronounced vowel. In "Seph-i-roth", "i" should be the base for a syllable, but here it's not, here it's just a phoneme.
Basically, "i" (or any vowel) can be the sole phoneme of its syllable when it's beginning a multi-syllable word. ( like i-seph.. with a real word: a-ffect )

[DLPB_]

I still think it's fine in the original scene - since you can say it like that.  It's just a choice, really.  They aren't supposed to be speaking in syllables in the scene - just the name is broken up. Another part I have used sephi.

[White Wind]

Yup it is fine!

[Kaldarasha]

Hell, even some Japanese materials call him Sefiros or Sefirot. I can't find any linguistic basis for a hard p there.

He is called like this in the flevel script.

At the time at Nibelheim Cait was never in the group when Cloud was talking about his past. The Goldsaucer scene is after Rocket Town, though it's also after Nibelheim. However you can assume that the characters do speak with each other. The Cosmo Canyon is for example a place where your party splits a few times and there they have the time to talk with each other.
It feels strange to read the sentence, but it's not unexplainable

[Ver Greeneyes]

Spoken as someone struggling to get the words out, I can certainly see "Seph.. i.. roth" working (imagine coughing to get the second and third parts out), though I agree that it's not how you would split the name into syllables (but that's probably not the intent here).

[DLPB_]

so I fixed the music for the Cloud Revealed scene; it's now around 4 minutes long.  Spy_dragon, you were right - it also needs a modification in nvmkin1 to stop music0 playing.  It's a complete mystery to me why this instruction is ignored in the PSX version  but, for some reason, it is. I think I'm going to have to ask Mystere.

Unfortunately, that also didn't completely fix the issue - because the PC version is getting to the Sephiroth scene too early - and I don't know why (my guess is the screens load faster in PC).  So now I am recording both scenes and checking them side by side.

[DLPB_]

Yup, it's the fades.  PC is faster.  I know that fading can be set at a specific time too and I'll probably have to do that to the fields in question to make the time add up.

[DLPB_]

Update:

So... the fades are bad on PC.  The default times are different to PSX.  The fade out is slower, but the fade in MUCH faster (I expect that, since PCs can load the maps faster than the PSX - so maybe the porting team tweaked the values).

We don't really want to fix the latter...  slower fades are not a good thing. So - I've corrected the fade out to be 15-16 frames (looks like that's what the PSX is) - and left Fade in at around 30.  This does mean the cutscene above is broken (since it relies on perfect timing for the music to sync) - but I can correct the script to get the same outcome.

[cold_spirit]

Thank you so much for looking into that music issue! I'm seriously stoked that it's being recognized and addressed. Cloud's revelation is my favorite scene in the game and I could never get into the PC version solely because that scene was off (I'm picky, I know).

I'd like to address other music issues between the PC and PSX release here:
1. "Turk's Theme" quits playing during the scene where Reno walks over the flowers in Aerith's church. In the PSX version, it plays continually without any interruptions.
2. "Who are you?" is replaced by "Infiltrating Shinra" when Cloud sees Jenova in the Shinra Headquarters. "Who are you?" plays briefly when Cloud is looking into the chamber, but then immediately quits once he falls over. In the PSX version, it played until Cloud, Barret, and Tifa were done talking.
3. "Those Chosen by the Planet" is replaced by "Under the Rotting Pizza" when Cloud runs into the mako reactor during the Nibelheim flashback. Having "Under the Rotting Pizza" interrupt it seriously messes with the mood between the scenes.
4. Opening a chest in the Cargo Ship causes the sound effect of the ship's motor to stop playing.

I was able to fix issue 1, 2, 3 by simply editing the game's script with Makou Reactor. If you're interested I can post the solutions here, but they aren't particularity interesting. Most can be solved by simply moving the line that calls for the music to play.