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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zetaman on 2015-12-12 00:24:04
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I created a petition recently to try to create a means to show Square Enix we as fans want the game we have deserved for 20 years.. An episodic release not only hinders the gameplay but the narrative as well, and punishes the fan for not paying a high premium to experience the story we deserve..
https://www.change.org/p/squareenix-mike-fischer-yosuke-matsuda-yasuhiro-fukushima-tetsuya-nomura-demand-square-enix-release-ff7-remake-as-a-full-game
Tell Square Enix WE WANT BETTER!
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I'm afraid that won't fix the other 20 or so complaints I have about it - so I just won't bother ever playing it. And I'm happy with that.
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Well, all we actually know is you'll be paying for multiple releases, which they insist will amount to full-size games. The intricacies of how it will work hasn't been confirmed.
Loading data from the previous release, being able to explore areas in previous installments. All of this stuff we do not know if it will be present. There are things we could surmise, like most of Midgar won't be revisitable in parts beyond the first, but that's true for the original FFVII also.
Wow, I've become a lot less outraged by this whole multiple part thing than I was originally.
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On a technical level there is no excuse what so ever to split it into a multiple release. If games such as Witcher 3 can create a whole world of content easily just as large if not larger than any FF universe with CD Project Ted being a fraction of the size of Square Enix, than I don't see any reason other than to charge a heavy premium to fans of the game. Why would no other FF game in the series be an episodic release including FF 15 which looks just as technically impressive as 7 remake, but 7 remake be an episodic release? Its because they know they can nickle and dime the fan base for an incomplete game. A dual layer Blu ray can fit 50GB of data not including off cd Updates which virtually all games do now a days.. This is just a way to piece meal the game into muiltiple parts and feed it to us in multiple releases so that they can Nickle and Dime the Fanbase. No other rational or technical reason would back up such a decision. Hell If you want more proof WE ON THE FORUMS IN TEAM AVALANCHE HAVE MANAGED TO MOD A 20 YEAR OLD GAME TO BE AROUND 21 GBS WORTH OF DATA. CMON SQUARE YOUR GOING TO NEED A BETTER EXCUSE THAN OH ITS TO TECHNICALLY DEMANDING OR IT WOULD TAKE TO MUCH TIME.. US MODDERS HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR MORE THAN 8 YEARS AND HAVE WORKED WITH A 20 YEAR OLD ENGINE...
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I'd like to defend SE a minute. Just hear me out.
When SE says they can't "fit" the remake into a single release, they don't mean in the physical sense (they could obviously create as many discs as they wanted), they mean that they need a lot of time to create the amount of content that they want to make. It sounds like they want to spend something like 6 years making all the content, and they don't want to make the fans wait that long.
Suppose you were given two choices: (a) SE spends 6+ years making an epic, huge remake with tons of content and expanding on the FF7 universe, etc., or (b) Square Enix spends 2 years making a remake with limited scope. Which do you think most FF7 fans would choose? If they go with (b), a lot of fans will surely be disappointed and want a lot more and wish that SE spent more time on it, given how special this game is. So, SE is obviously going to choose (a).
Now, suppose SE decides they're going to spend 6 years making an epic remake. I think it's perfectly reasonable to charge more than the cost of a single game for 6 years of development. And I like the idea of splitting it up into parts so that we don't have to wait 6 years. (For example, split it into 3 games, 2 years apart each.) A lot of people say they don't want to play it until all parts are done, and that's totally understandable, but they can still do that even if SE releases it in parts, by waiting until the last part is released.
However, I will acknowledge there's a possibility that SE could do something like "release part 1 of 3", then "release part 2 of 3", then instead of "release part 3 of 3", they might do something like "release Crisis Core prequel remake", then "release other expansions", blah blah blah, then finally wait to "release part 3 of 3" until the very end, making such people wait for a very very long time until the whole thing is complete. But, hey, if you have the desire and willpower to wait 6 years, you can probably do 10 years just as easily.
By the way, obviously this is just an example, we don't know many years they'll take, how many parts there will be, how long we'll have to wait between parts, whether we can use our game data from one part to the next, whether there will be level caps, etc. So, it's kind of early to pass judgment until we have more information anyway.
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I don't understand why people are complaining about getting more content. You like ff7, and SE wants to spend so much money and resources on a remake that they are forced to make a developmental and economical decision to split the game into parts. At least TWO full FF7 AAA productions would be the product of this decision instead of one. Go ahead and beg them to put less time and resources into the franchise, you won't be happy with any decision they make anyway. Your petition is silly.
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I'm sorry, but apparently FF15 is a smaller game and that is going to end up being a 10 year development cycle.
I'm sure as fuck not buying a PS5 just for final fantasy 7, so I much prefer this multipart series that is released in reasonable timelines.
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I don't understand why people are complaining about getting more content. You like ff7, and SE wants to spend so much money and resources on a remake that they are forced to make a developmental and economical decision to split the game into parts. At least TWO full FF7 AAA productions would be the product of this decision instead of one. Go ahead and beg them to put less time and resources into the franchise, you won't be happy with any decision they make anyway. Your petition is silly.
More content? You mean more bloat, surely? The vast majority of it will be crazy long cutscenes. And since when did gaming hit such a low that it has to release one game in multiple parts? It's bad all round. Bad management or greed or both.
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More content? You mean more bloat, surely? The vast majority of it will be crazy long cutscenes.
I don't know what you mean or how you would know - do you work at SE?
And since when did gaming hit such a low that it has to release one game in multiple parts? It's bad all round. Bad management or greed or both.
I think you would appreciate a crash course in software development. Everything is perpetually expensive and behind schedule, video games exponentially so. I also think you are missing the point as far as the multiple pieces are concerned, each piece has been mentioned to be a full game and they intend to expand and deepen the story/scenario. It isn't a carbon copy of the original in the form of an action-esque game.
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Deepen = wreck with more bloat, retcons, and shoehorned characters like Genesis, I presume. I know all about software development - enough to know that this is more a cheap trick and suckering the fanbase for more money - and it's evidently working. There is no justification for multiple parts. FF7 1997 came on three discs and as one game. It's 2015 and this kind of thing is ludicrous. Other game companies do not do it and would not do it.
Also, no-one asked for the "remake" they're giving us. It's so far away from what the original fanbase wanted, it's not funny.
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You're making a lot of generalizations there, so I guess we will just have to wait and find out what it really is. I think you've spent so much time tearing apart the original, that anything new just doesn't seem right, I understand that perspective.
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You're making a lot of generalizations there, so I guess we will just have to wait and find out what it really is. I think you've spent so much time tearing apart the original, that anything new just doesn't seem right, I understand that perspective.
It's not that we despise anything new in general, but rather that we have reasonable doubt that Square Enix has what it takes to change the game for the better. I would always welcome changes even in remakes, as long as they're indeed changes for the better, and not for the worse. The problem is, we already KNOW for a fact that when it's the bone-headed blockheads at SE that are doing those changes, they can only be for the worse. And we know that based on our experience with all their RPGs that they released in the past 12+ years or so. Their track record leaves us little reason to remain optimistic.
On topic: I like the idea of such a petition and I fully support it, but I just doubt that it would make an impact on SE's business decisions even if the petition managed to assemble about 100.000 people, because... when was the last time that SE ever listened to their fanbase?
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No ATB / limited atb, story and character alterations, multiple parts, bloated cutscenes, totally unrealistic matrix /bond action, realtime battle with numbers flying all over, poor voice acting, cliche dialogue, totally different style....
What could I possibly have against it? It's as far away from the original game as it could have been - and it's supposedly a remake for the fans of the game.
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I'm not for this kind of petition, however suspicious I am about the way this remake is heading to. In the end, the pressure will fall on the developpers and they can't do a good job if everyone is tearing them apart with their expectations (especially for a remake like this, which should be wrapped in nostalgia and not made in a hurry).
Yes, this episodic thing is a joke. Yes, the reason they gave only hide mercantile strategy. But if the petition gets big enough to make them change their strategy, I'm afraid that it will only mean the developpers have twice less time to do as much work as originally planned (and whether or not I like what they do, I don't wish them that, both for them and for their game's sake).
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I think you would appreciate a crash course in software development. Everything is perpetually expensive and behind schedule, video games exponentially so. I also think you are missing the point as far as the multiple pieces are concerned, each piece has been mentioned to be a full game and they intend to expand and deepen the story/scenario. It isn't a carbon copy of the original in the form of an action-esque game.
I think Square needs more of a lesson in the SDL. YOU DON'T RELEASE HALF A PRODUCT! Isn't that like ordering a burger and giving you the bun and trimmings before the meat is done? I have yet to play Star Craft 2 because it was episodic. I waited for it to be complete, not jumping at every little piece (which they admitted was incomplete) when dangled in front of me. Now not only is it complete, but I'm going to pay less for the full thing than if I had paid full retail when each piece came out. I win, not Blizzard.
Episodic releases are their way of saying "We messed up our time-table, but we won't admit it". It's not like these are even going to be sequels or isolated stories. It's ALL ONE STORY purposefully split into pieces to prevent people from yelling at them for missing their own imposed deadline.
We're heading for another video game crash for nearly the same reason as the last one: rushed titles from AAA companies. Valve honestly doesn't have to release any more Half-Life titles. They don't "owe it" to anyone. But they do have potential for a great game once it's finished. Square announced this remake WAY too early if they weren't far along enough to be certain that they could release it with that ridiculously early release date.
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I can't believe people are actually defending this... Im lost for words.. Why can't we as fans expect better? as that really soo unreasonable.. to Expect better from a dev? No one is going to convince me for my life that Square is doing this to "provide more content" ITS A BLATANT CASH IN.. Cmon guys really? Lets tie the evidence here, what is by far the most popular Final Fantasy in the series? I wonder. Next lets look at SE financial records, they arent doing so hot recently.. Couple that with the fact that the gameplay demo already had ENGLISH LOCALIZATION which is one of the very last steps in making a game, this isn't a question of resources or time, Give me a break.. If Square can spend 10 years working on FF 15, they can put 4 years of effort working on a COMPLETE TITLE.. We have waited for this for YEARS, and they are just gonna return our commitment with charging high premiums for games that are half complete...
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I'd rather have multiple releases of DLC (hoping how they're doing it instead of actual titles like Tell Tale) than condensing the game. Of all the things they could possibly do this is one I don't mind (In comparision to Barret possibly wearing those sunglasses through the whole game).
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Just you wait 5 years from now. We are going to be getting DLC like being able to control volume and gamma settings, and some how people are going to justify it lol
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Just you wait 5 years from now. We are going to be getting DLC like being able to control volume and gamma settings, and some how people are going to justify it lol
Haha, it's not so unlikely anymore is it? ;) We went from fully controllable Aeons and characters in FFX, a world map beforehand, and all the other stuff - to this.
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If Square can't make a full title with a world map anymore and a story with a narrative that follows through till the end in one title I don't think Square deserves our money. Especially if CD Project Red with a fraction of the resources can one-up them in terms of content. Square is one of the largest gaming companies in the world. It's absolute nonsense given the fact that they already have an English localization, that they can make up that they cant make a full game due to time constraints or resources. THIS GAME IS 20 YEARS OLD ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! This game was made 20 years ago with a fraction of the resources with its story told more in depth than what they are currently offering and they are telling me that they cant make a consolidated title with current technology and funds which they already demonstrated they have?! Hell what was the whole FF7 tech demo in 2005 about? Wasn't that them bragging about how they could make the game with their resources? Why does the game already have English localization for a game that supposedly started development only a short while ago? (I know this because there were interviews with Square in 2013 about them saying they would only remake FF7 if another game outdid its "legacy". Now an abandoned gambit because of their financial problems lol). This is a Joke, Square can do better and they know they can, But they also know they can extort as much money out of fans as possible because its Final Fantasy 7 dammit.. This game isn't the Goddamn Lord of the Rings, this doesnt need to be released in 3-6-10 parts however much Square wants to extort out of fans.
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If memory serves me right each episode of Xenosaga on the ps2 full games as well. i not gonna jump down square enix throat just yet until all parts are released. Xenosaga got me worried if its series was gonna be bad but turned out to be good in the end.
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XenoSaga was its own gameseries though, thats different. That would be like comparing Witcher 1, 2, and 3 with what they are doing.. ITS ALREADY A GAME THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED WITH ITS OWN STORY ITS A REMAKE FOR DAMN SAKE.. The best comparison I can to what they are doing is the .HACK series. I thought .HACK was a joke because they basically buffered padding for eachgame with the same engine and same gameplay, to prolong concluding a story they already wrote out. Yet they managed to charge a premium to get people to buy 5 games... Next thing you know youre going to have Nintendo release Ocarina of time into 3 parts.. Are you Kidding? ITS A GAME THAT ALREADY EXISTS ITS NOT ITS OWN STANDALONE SERIES AND MOST OF ALL THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GODDAMN REMAKE!!!
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Well, tough cookies, it's happening and they won't change their minds, Japanese developers are infinitely more stubborn than western devs.
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Really I cant think of any other example though where they have taken a prexisting game (one that is 20 years old mind you), call it a "Remake" and SEGREGATE IT INTO MULTIPLE PRODUCTS. Tell me one that has done that I cant find it!
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Honestly, I overreacted to FF7 remake being released as multiple parts. They claim each game is a full-sized release, and if there is a save carry-over functionality that keeps my stats, items, and such from game to game I'll be fine with it. If they expand each game into a 25-30 hour story with another 10-15 hours of extras, I'll get all the games when they eventually release together as a physical release.
The multi-release aspect is a very small issue in regard to the game in my opinion. What everyone should be focused on, is whether or not any of these parts are good. If they aren't, it doesn't matter if they are all together or released one a a time. At least this way if they are bad you don't have to buy all of it before you realize it, you can just return the first one you buy and stay away from the "remake".
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I love how people are fine with the prospect of paying 180 dollars for a game that should be 60 and for a game that ideally in the past would be and would have been worked on for at least 6 years by square.
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There are a lot of flaws in your argument. I will regurgitate this well known information again: each "episode" is a full game. Did you think that FFX-1,2/FFXIII-1,2,3 were separately worth the weight of a "full game" in your opinion? "Episode" isn't even the right word to use here, it was a term that was loosely translated from a japanese gaming magazine.
Here is a better translation of this information for you. (http://thelifestream.net/news/final-fantasy-vii-news/33873/ffvii-remake-famitsu-and-dengeki-translations/) I think we can all understand how not all translations are created equal.
You are also trying to make a comparison to the cost, time and manpower involved in building games between FOUR console generations, do you see how absurd a comparison that is? Maybe it is because I am a software dev and I see how these things get fleshed out, but I feel like this argument is really misinformed.
I am personally cool with paying for multiple $60 games if each game is long and awesome. There are definitely some holes that I would hope to be covered or expanded on such as what happened to Cloud after crisis core to pre bombing mission, what happened to everyone else from crisis core during FF7 etc.
If they make three "full" games out of FF7 AND they are awesome, I'd certainly rather pay the price of three of these full games than an ultra condensed, verbatim plot and strategy of the OG FF7. I'd also rather FF7 get this multi-volume remake treatment than any of the other FFs.
I really can't understand how I am seemingly in the minority on this. Maybe I am talking about this on the wrong forum lol
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Other game companies do not do it and would not do it.
To be fair, this approach is done in Japan, notably by The Legend of Heroes developers at Nihon Falcom.
These games are split because of size, and so, if truly they plan on expanding the game (1:1 scale open-cities/towns and over-world exploration) in quality of the game-play trailer, then I actually don't see any way they could release this as a single without forcing us to wait at the very least 3+ years and forcing us to pay extra for a 2 or 3 blue-ray disk release, which would essentially make little difference from releasing those disks as they finished them instead of forcing us to wait until everyone is done in either case.
@rest of thread :
As for those drawing parallels to other games -
Almost no other game, Witcher and Xenoblade included, take place on an entire planet with 10+ city locations, 40+ hours of story spanning those locations.
The Witcher's world is quite small for comparatively to what the world of FFVII is supposed to be (an entire planet), and while Xenoblade offers an entire planet, it's a planet devoid of meaningful content, cities etc. where most of the story is told in the 1 hub-city of the game. Non of those titles are comparable in scope and diversity to what a, content-wise, faithful remake of FFVII would have to be.
FFVII issue is that it is a narrative driven game, and an exploration focused game at the same time. Most games pick one or the other. The Witcher 3 is truly an odd one out there, that tries the same, but it limits itself to a single country or continent.
Xenosaga builds an entire world (in dated graphics at that), and sacrifices tight story-telling in favor of boring MMO type game-play where most of the time is spent running through wilderness killing 10 of X and collecting 20 of Y.
FFVII did the best of both - it gave you the vast world of Xenogears and then put Witcher 3-like narrative driven quests at the center of each new area you explored.
This is the biggest factor in making the PS1 era FF games difficult to remake in high-end graphics. Their format works very poorly with the new design trends, costs, and inflation of the industry.
If you're going to have the best graphics you can have for a system, a huge world filled with diverse locations with unique content, and cut-scene driven, motion-captured, heavily directed cut-scenes drive story at every single location whether it's important for plot-progression, or whether it's just Hojo chillin' at the beach, you're easily looking at a game that will take the same amount of space as the 3 first Uncharted games put together, or the 3 first Assassin's Creed games or the 3 Witcher games.
Could you cram all of these unto one disk? Would you release that project in one package at 3 the price of a regular game down the pipe-line many years after having announced it, or split it up into 3?
More to the point - SE has had FF15 in production for a decade now. That game has yet to produce any revenue what so ever.
If you think SE financial backers will float Kitase and Co the money to just develop a game for 3-5+ years without producing anything to sell in that period, whilst FF15 is still in the works and we don't know how well it will sell, then you have no idea how the industry works.
I really don't want to defend SE on this, but the splitting of this game is not a problem. It's the only logical thing to do to make this remake happen at all (at that level of detail), and it's the only thing that answers the concerns of cut content - which was a concern primarily fueled by time, money, and the format, all of which can be addressed by making it a series instead.
If they truly do plan to make a 1:1 scale remake of that world, and everything in it, that game would literally be bigger than any other AAA RPG to date.
The only games it would perhaps make sense to compare it to would be FF15 or FF14 - the former not being out, and the other being an MMORPG that is being updated and added to constantly.
Again, for people who think serialized JRPGs don't work - look to The Legend of Heroes on PS Vita.
It's been done time and time again, and it's worked time and time again.
If Nihon Falcom can do this, SE should be able to as well.
There's a lot of things to dislike about style of the remake if you're a purist - however, the split format, until we know how and how many, is probably the least worrisome on that list.
(Before someone call me a blind fan-boy of SE - I don't even like the new direction of the game. Personally I'd like it to be a cell-shaded traditional JRPG keeping true to the original style and game-play of the game, and I'd be perfectly happy to accept lower graphics for that to be realized (even PS2 level graphics).
Personally, the anime style of the original game, the world map, the transitional encounters etc. are more important aspects of this game to me, than the overarching story - so remaking the overarching story and ditching everyone else, alienates me from the game. I'm not particularly happy with the style they chose for the remake - but they chose it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have FFVII look and play like Advent Children, retain its original content, and still make it unto a single release. You just can't.)
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There are a lot of flaws in your argument. I will regurgitate this well known information again: each "episode" is a full game. Did you think that FFX-1,2/FFXIII-1,2,3 were separately worth the weight of a "full game" in your opinion? "Episode" isn't even the right word to use here, it was a term that was loosely translated from a japanese gaming magazine.
Here is a better translation of this information for you. (http://thelifestream.net/news/final-fantasy-vii-news/33873/ffvii-remake-famitsu-and-dengeki-translations/) I think we can all understand how not all translations are created equal.
You are also trying to make a comparison to the cost, time and manpower involved in building games between FOUR console generations, do you see how absurd a comparison that is? Maybe it is because I am a software dev and I see how these things get fleshed out, but I feel like this argument is really misinformed.
I am personally cool with paying for multiple $60 games if each game is long and awesome. There are definitely some holes that I would hope to be covered or expanded on such as what happened to Cloud after crisis core to pre bombing mission, what happened to everyone else from crisis core during FF7 etc.
If they make three "full" games out of FF7 AND they are awesome, I'd certainly rather pay the price of three of these full games than an ultra condensed, verbatim plot and strategy of the OG FF7. I'd also rather FF7 get this multi-volume remake treatment than any of the other FFs.
I really can't understand how I am seemingly in the minority on this. Maybe I am talking about this on the wrong forum lol
Well I guess no one would argue if they would expand FF7 in an intelegent way. I think what happened to person XY isn't something I really care about. How has Jenova arived the planet and why could the Cetra only seal her? Also the post ShinRa history is somewhat of vague.
My grief with the multi episods is actually that there is no room for a worldmap, which also means they have to summerize content (Cosmo Canyon could be made easiely to a part of a sector in Midgar).
Atm it looks like as if they made out of Pong a Tennis Simulator. Sure Tennis can be much fun but it's simply not the same as Pong.
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My grief with the multi episods is actually that there is no room for a worldmap, which also means they have to summerize content (Cosmo Canyon could be made easiely to a part of a sector in Midgar).
Atm it looks like as if they made out of Pong a Tennis Simulator. Sure Tennis can be much fun but it's simply not the same as Pong.
I would have a pretty big problem with that as well. Stealing vehicles and raising chocobos to get around to places were a big part of the game. Have you played XV Episode Duscae at all? I think that level of "wordmap" would be the worst case scenario for FF7r. They could AT LEAST do that, but I feel that they are motivated at the revenue prospects to do something even more worldmap-esque than that - maybe even something on par with the original.
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To be fair, this approach is done in Japan, notably by The Legend of Heroes developers at Nihon Falcom.
These games are split because of size, and so, if truly they plan on expanding the game (1:1 scale open-cities/towns and over-world exploration) in quality of the game-play trailer, then I actually don't see any way they could release this as a single without forcing us to wait at the very least 3+ years and forcing us to pay extra for a 2 or 3 blue-ray disk release, which would essentially make little difference from releasing those disks as they finished them instead of forcing us to wait until everyone is done in either case.
@rest of thread :
As for those drawing parallels to other games -
Almost no other game, Witcher and Xenoblade included, take place on an entire planet with 10+ city locations, 40+ hours of story spanning those locations.
The Witcher's world is quite small for comparatively to what the world of FFVII is supposed to be (an entire planet), and while Xenoblade offers an entire planet, it's a planet devoid of meaningful content, cities etc. where most of the story is told in the 1 hub-city of the game. Non of those titles are comparable in scope and diversity to what a, content-wise, faithful remake of FFVII would have to be.
FFVII issue is that it is a narrative driven game, and an exploration focused game at the same time. Most games pick one or the other. The Witcher 3 is truly an odd one out there, that tries the same, but it limits itself to a single country or continent.
Xenosaga builds an entire world (in dated graphics at that), and sacrifices tight story-telling in favor of boring MMO type game-play where most of the time is spent running through wilderness killing 10 of X and collecting 20 of Y.
FFVII did the best of both - it gave you the vast world of Xenogears and then put Witcher 3-like narrative driven quests at the center of each new area you explored.
This is the biggest factor in making the PS1 era FF games difficult to remake in high-end graphics. Their format works very poorly with the new design trends, costs, and inflation of the industry.
If you're going to have the best graphics you can have for a system, a huge world filled with diverse locations with unique content, and cut-scene driven, motion-captured, heavily directed cut-scenes drive story at every single location whether it's important for plot-progression, or whether it's just Hojo chillin' at the beach, you're easily looking at a game that will take the same amount of space as the 3 first Uncharted games put together, or the 3 first Assassin's Creed games or the 3 Witcher games.
Could you cram all of these unto one disk? Would you release that project in one package at 3 the price of a regular game down the pipe-line many years after having announced it, or split it up into 3?
More to the point - SE has had FF15 in production for a decade now. That game has yet to produce any revenue what so ever.
If you think SE financial backers will float Kitase and Co the money to just develop a game for 3-5+ years without producing anything to sell in that period, whilst FF15 is still in the works and we don't know how well it will sell, then you have no idea how the industry works.
I really don't want to defend SE on this, but the splitting of this game is not a problem. It's the only logical thing to do to make this remake happen at all (at that level of detail), and it's the only thing that answers the concerns of cut content - which was a concern primarily fueled by time, money, and the format, all of which can be addressed by making it a series instead.
If they truly do plan to make a 1:1 scale remake of that world, and everything in it, that game would literally be bigger than any other AAA RPG to date.
The only games it would perhaps make sense to compare it to would be FF15 or FF14 - the former not being out, and the other being an MMORPG that is being updated and added to constantly.
Again, for people who think serialized JRPGs don't work - look to The Legend of Heroes on PS Vita.
It's been done time and time again, and it's worked time and time again.
If Nihon Falcom can do this, SE should be able to as well.
There's a lot of things to dislike about style of the remake if you're a purist - however, the split format, until we know how and how many, is probably the least worrisome on that list.
(Before someone call me a blind fan-boy of SE - I don't even like the new direction of the game. Personally I'd like it to be a cell-shaded traditional JRPG keeping true to the original style and game-play of the game, and I'd be perfectly happy to accept lower graphics for that to be realized (even PS2 level graphics).
Personally, the anime style of the original game, the world map, the transitional encounters etc. are more important aspects of this game to me, than the overarching story - so remaking the overarching story and ditching everyone else, alienates me from the game. I'm not particularly happy with the style they chose for the remake - but they chose it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have FFVII look and play like Advent Children, retain its original content, and still make it unto a single release. You just can't.)
Have you even played Witcher 3, Really???
http://www.actiontrip.com/images/witcher-3-world-map-header.jpg
That is one of the 4 continents in the entire game.. (and that doesn't even show the whole continent)
there are literally hundreds of locations to explore with their own handcrafted storyboards, and that continent alone has more than 4 main hub cities with Novigrad EASILY being the size if not greater than Midgar..
http://valorabbey.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/witcher3.jpg
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images/2015/07/14/wild-open-spaces-a-visual-guide-to-the-world-of-the-witcher-3-2155-body-image-1436908484.jpg?resize=1000:*&output-quality=75
that there is just 1/10 of the size of Novigrad ALONE!!
How about Skellige?
http://thewitcher3.wiki.fextralife.com/file/view/witcher3_map2.jpg
The Isles are composed of at least 5 islands with at least 3 main cities including the Kingdom in the center, with each island easily taking 10 minutes at least to sail by ship..
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e6/af/e7/e6afe788c420d1047f801acb5362808b.jpg
here is just one of the MANY VISTAS IN SKELLIGE THIS IS A FRACTION OF THAT REGION
When you add the other territories to the mix ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! THE demo they showed us might as well be a BITE SIZE FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s WORLD.. Unless you can plainly see this YOU have to literally be blind..
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Btw the reason FF15 hasnt been released yet is because of a mix of development hell and poor corporate decisions that have stopped them from releasing the game on its intended release. IT was supposed to be FF VS 13 and years later became 15 because they didn't want to cancel the game and waste the assets. This is also coupled by the fact that Square has signed a deal to use Unreal Technologies (a decision im in support of btw) to renew the entire game engine. The same was done with Kingdom Hearts 3, if you look at the original footage of the game the engine was completely different. The newest E3 footage shows the Unreal engine in use.. The big problems for Square that have stopped them from releasing FF15 havent been money or resources (at least not particularly in a linear sense) it was the ABSOLUTE DISASTER that was FF 14 that had the company almost go bankrupt a second time, coupled with a transitional era in technology from past to next gen that put the game in development hell.. Why do you think Type Zero was released YEARS LATER or even the FFX remaster, Because of the Reasons listed above Plain and simple.. Type Zero was a game that was supposed to be released on PSP and 5 years later was released on Next gen consoles because of this transitional technological discrepancy. This is ALSO why they even ported FFX remake to PS4, A relativly simple thing to do seeing as how it isn't a completely new game engine but still evidence of my assertions none the less.
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As far as I'm concerned, whether or not this episodic thing is a good idea is going to depend almost entirely on new content. They already stated several months ago that they'd be expanding on the game significantly, adding new writing, etc., so it really is possible that when they say each episode will be a full game, they legitimately mean that it will be a full game worth of content, some mix of old (good), expanded (okay), and new (ugh) story. I'm not remotely confident they'll get this right, but I won't shit on it until I see it executed, not simply described.
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There are a lot of flaws in your argument. I will regurgitate this well known information again: each "episode" is a full game. Did you think that FFX-1,2/FFXIII-1,2,3 were separately worth the weight of a "full game" in your opinion? "Episode" isn't even the right word to use here, it was a term that was loosely translated from a japanese gaming magazine.
Here is a better translation of this information for you. (http://thelifestream.net/news/final-fantasy-vii-news/33873/ffvii-remake-famitsu-and-dengeki-translations/) I think we can all understand how not all translations are created equal.
You are also trying to make a comparison to the cost, time and manpower involved in building games between FOUR console generations, do you see how absurd a comparison that is? Maybe it is because I am a software dev and I see how these things get fleshed out, but I feel like this argument is really misinformed.
I am personally cool with paying for multiple $60 games if each game is long and awesome. There are definitely some holes that I would hope to be covered or expanded on such as what happened to Cloud after crisis core to pre bombing mission, what happened to everyone else from crisis core during FF7 etc.
If they make three "full" games out of FF7 AND they are awesome, I'd certainly rather pay the price of three of these full games than an ultra condensed, verbatim plot and strategy of the OG FF7. I'd also rather FF7 get this multi-volume remake treatment than any of the other FFs.
I really can't understand how I am seemingly in the minority on this. Maybe I am talking about this on the wrong forum lol
If you honestly thought FFX 2 was a Real game... Than I really am lost for words lol.. And as I said the difference between that and this is that THIS IS SUPPOSSED TO BE A REMAKE>>> Your analogy would be more akin to Hey would you mind if they made FF13 ONE ONE!!! as FF13 ONE PART ONE PART TWO PART THREE PART 4 WHEN IT ALREADY EXISTS??? If they want to make a new installment to FF7 Call it FF7 The after years or whatever but by virtue of calling it a REMAKE the two concepts are mutually exclusive it makes absolutely no sense.. THat would be like if The son of Tolkien were to release a new printed edition of the fellowship of the ring and segregate it into 3 parts to "add and edit the content"... THEN ITS NOT A NEW EDITION OR REMAKE IS IT??
Furthermore I really want to know how much Square is spending on this, If they have been working on this for 2 years and splitting the content of a game that looks like it has the same scope as ONE of witcher 3s cities, please inform me of how terribly expensive this must be for them.. Hell even then what kind of excuse is that? Because the development of a game is expensive you are going to punish your fanbase by giving them a quarter of the content which logically given the years of planned dvelopment thats EXACTLY what it is.. Kingdom Hearts 3 is being worked on as a standalone title for more time (though dont get me started about how square has buffered that projects cost, COUGH COUGH RE RELEASEING PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS 16 times COUGH). TYPE ZERO had 6 years of development time and was ONE title.. Originally FF13 wasnt even going to be a sequential release if you read interviews by square it was a decision made AFTER THE FACT because of how popular 13 was and how popular Lightning as a character was in particular. Lightning returns wasnt even on their minds when they orignally released 13..
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To those still defending Square: UNLESS episode 1 contains AT LEAST as much as the original game and additional episodes have completely new content expanding on the story IN A LOGICAL WAY; Then this is nothing short of greedy and prideful on Square's part.
That said, let's move away from the possibility of it being episodes like we think an anime or manga are episodic. Perhaps these are segmented games the way Pokemon is. You have to have both to get 100% or at least know someone that has the others. This is STILL a cash grab for SE as you aren't getting the full experience with full retail price of a "full game". That's why I never picked up Pokemon and am surprised that ever took off.
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X-2 was a full game, yes.
They have to get money from something NFITC1, I can't imagine the FF-XIII saga sold dump trucks of copies as planned. Good god I hated a lot of those characters.
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My grief with the multi episods is actually that there is no room for a worldmap, which also means they have to summerize content (Cosmo Canyon could be made easiely to a part of a sector in Midgar).
This isn't true though.
If each game part are added to each-other like an expansion system that we use to see for PC games, it's completely possible for the remake to have a world map that will be extended on with each new install, much like what is done with expansions for FF14, or other MMOPRGs.
Also, as I've said before, the OG's world building is, sorry to say, really bad. Towns like Kalm and Cosmo Canyon make no sense, and couldn't possible be self-sufficient and liveable as is - so they'll all probably be expanded and changed for the remake if they plan to make things more "real”.
I mean, the OG didn't even have a system of roads, railroads etc. No farms outside of the towns to provide them food, not enough houses for even the NPCs in the towns, and no indication that there would be enough customers to keep the stores from going bankrupt.
In total, the world was ridiculously underdeveloped, and if they were to address that we're looking at a world then it isn't easy to see how big the various places are going to end up being.
The Famitsu interviews have Nomura and Kitase both explicitly stating they don't want to make a "digest" version of the game - they're purposefully setting out to make a larger version than the original.
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X-2 was a full game, yes.
They have to get money from something NFITC1, I can't imagine the FF-XIII saga sold dump trucks of copies as planned. Good god I hated a lot of those characters.
Between FF13 and 13 2 the They sold 9.3 Million copies.. 13 contrary to popular belief was a massive commercial success with the exception of possible Lightning Returns which recieved poor reviews.. And FFX 2 is considered an embarrassment by anyone who actually considers themselves a FF fan... BY FAR THE WORST GAME THEY HAVE EVER MADE.. And this is coming from someone who takes FFX 1 to be the best game in the series imo.( lets take FFX make Yuna who was a priest into a slutty gunslinger and re use almost all of the same assets, OH and lets have more than half of the bosses be a color swap of Aeons from the last game... MY GOD that game was horrible..)
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Have you even played Witcher 3, Really???
http://www.actiontrip.com/images/witcher-3-world-map-header.jpg
Have you played the game?
http://www.eteknix.com/witcher-3-gta-v-skyrim-far-cry-4-map-size-comparison/
Take your crockshait and peddle it somewhere else.
Also, FFVII takes place across an entire planet - The Witcher does not. End of argument.
Make me a 1:1 scale recreation of a planet and tell me it's going to be smaller or the size of the Witcher with a serious face. I dare you.
That is one of the 4 continents in the entire game.. (and that doesn't even show the whole continent)
there are literally hundreds of locations to explore with their own handcrafted storyboards, and that continent alone has more than 4 main hub cities with Novigrad EASILY being the size if not greater than Midgar..
If you think a Medieval hub city that is easily smaller than most of the cities recreate from actual Medieval times in the Assassin'c Creed series comes even close to Midgar, the fantasy equivalent of modern day Tokyo, you are deluded.
http://valorabbey.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/witcher3.jpg
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images/2015/07/14/wild-open-spaces-a-visual-guide-to-the-world-of-the-witcher-3-2155-body-image-1436908484.jpg?resize=1000:*&output-quality=75
that there is just 1/10 of the size of Novigrad ALONE!!
How about Skellige?
http://thewitcher3.wiki.fextralife.com/file/view/witcher3_map2.jpg
The Isles are composed of at least 5 islands with at least 3 main cities including the Kingdom in the center, with each island easily taking 10 minutes at least to sail by ship..
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e6/af/e7/e6afe788c420d1047f801acb5362808b.jpg
here is just one of the MANY VISTAS IN SKELLIGE THIS IS A FRACTION OF THAT REGION
When you add the other territories to the mix ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! THE demo they showed us might as well be a BITE SIZE FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s WORLD.. Unless you can plainly see this YOU have to literally be blind..
The demo they showed us, showed us a couple of streets of Midgar, which could easily indicate Migard being 10 times the size of any city in the Witcher 3, which would be hard granted that even the biggest city in that game can be run through in matter of minutes.
I wasn't arguing that the Witcher 3 doesn't have large maps - I was making the argument that comparing Medieval towns with Midgar is retarded, as is comparing a couple of kingdoms with an entire planet.
The Witcher 3 is undoubtedly impressive, but if you think it will be larger than a faithful recreation of FFVII's world in a 1:1 scale your intellect and imagination is as limited as that of a lobotomized chimpanzee. Now take your caps lock rage somewhere else.
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lets take FFX make Yuna who was a priest into a slutty gunslinger and re use almost all of the same assets, OH and lets have more than half of the bosses be a color swap of Aeons from the last game... MY GOD that game was horrible
I never said it had a great plot, but it was a genuine effort by SE at trying to make a "full-game" sequel.
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Have you played the game?
http://www.eteknix.com/witcher-3-gta-v-skyrim-far-cry-4-map-size-comparison/
Take your crockshait and peddle it somewhere else.
Also, FFVII takes place across an entire planet - The Witcher does not. End of argument.
Make me a 1:1 scale recreation of a planet and tell me it's going to be smaller or the size of the Witcher with a serious face. I dare you.
If you think a Medieval hub city that is easily smaller than most of the cities recreate from actual Medieval times in the Assassin'c Creed series comes even close to Midgar, the fantasy equivalent of modern day Tokyo, you are deluded.
The demo they showed us, showed us a couple of streets of Midgar, which could easily indicate Migard being 10 times the size of any city in the Witcher 3, which would be hard granted that even the biggest city in that game can be run through in matter of minutes.
I wasn't arguing that the Witcher 3 doesn't have large maps - I was making the argument that comparing Medieval towns with Midgar is retarded, as is comparing a couple of kingdoms with an entire planet.
The Witcher 3 is undoubtedly impressive, but if you think it will be larger than a faithful recreation of FFVII's world in a 1:1 scale your intellect and imagination is as limited as that of a lobotomized chimpanzee. Now take your caps lock rage somewhere else.
I love how incredibly ignorant your assertions are... YOUR VERY OWN SOURCE TO CITE THE SIZE OF WITCHERS MAP SPECIFICALLY STATES WITCHERS MAP BEING 4 TIMES BIGGER THAN GTA 5s ENTIRE CITY!!! Your honestly gonna tell me Midgar is as big if not bigger than Los Santos? Specifically your source sites GTA 5 as being 45 km^2 where as Witcher 3 is 136 km^2.. you know what else was a planet Spira except the freedom of the amount of exploration compared to the any of these game was minuscule.. Just because something spans across a planet doesnt mean the size to scale is even remotely as large.. Hell the planet of FF7 EVEN REMINDS ME OF the way SKELLIGE LOOKS FUNNY ENOUGH..
http://www.ff7underground.s5.com/images/ff7map.gif
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/witcher/images/9/9a/Skelligemap.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150725013001
They might as well be the same amount of territory.. Witcher 3 might as well just be a planet scaled several times larger..
https://www.primagames.com/media/images/news/the_witcher_3_skellige_main_quests_hero_image.jpg
Apparently this doesnt scale with something like Cosmo canyon lol... You gotta love Fanboys
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Size has no meaning, hian is clearly referring to the density of those areas. What is impressive about miles and miles of empty space?
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I never said it had a great plot, but it was a genuine effort by SE at trying to make a "full-game" sequel.
A Genuine effort that used almost all of the same assets as the last game, many of the same world territories and was soo lazy from a narrative standpoint that they made the majority of the antagonists simply a recolor of existing Aeon models. Oh and did I mention the game was shat out a year and a half after FFX release which was worked on ever since 7? Lol Geniune effort my ass.
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Size has no meaning, hian is clearly referring to the density of those areas. What is impressive about miles and miles of empty space?
Youre right, apparently 100s of hand place locations with hand written story driven quests, and over 150 hours of voice acting not to mention 5 years of development time is not a genuine effort in the filling of that "space"
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http://segmentnext.com/2015/05/29/the-witcher-3-novigrad-secondary-quests-guide/
These are only a handfull of SIDE QUESTS all fleshed out with full stories and voice acting, available only in Novigrad only a fraction of the games territory
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If you think a Medieval hub city that is easily smaller than most of the cities recreate from actual Medieval times in the Assassin'c Creed series comes even close to Midgar, the fantasy equivalent of modern day Tokyo, you are deluded.
The demo they showed us, showed us a couple of streets of Midgar, which could easily indicate Migard being 10 times the size of any city in the Witcher 3, which would be hard granted that even the biggest city in that game can be run through in matter of minutes.
I wasn't arguing that the Witcher 3 doesn't have large maps - I was making the argument that comparing Medieval towns with Midgar is retarded, as is comparing a couple of kingdoms with an entire planet.
Also Really you arent being indicative of physical size your whole arguement was based upon the premise that a Medieval Cities scale could never be the scale of a modern city WHEN YOUR OWN ARTICLE TOLD YOU OTHERWISE LOS SANTOS WHICH IS A MODERN CITY IS A FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s TERRITORY
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I love how incredibly ignorant your assertions are... YOUR VERY OWN SOURCE TO CITE THE SIZE OF WITCHERS MAP SPECIFICALLY STATES WITCHERS MAP BEING 4 TIMES BIGGER THAN GTA 5s ENTIRE CITY!!! Your honestly gonna tell me Midgar is as big if not bigger than Los Santos? Specifically your source sites GTA 5 as being 45 km^2 where as Witcher 3 is 136 km^2..
I love how your reading comprehension and flailing about trying to confirm your own biases is at the level of a religious child.
Yes, the entirety of Witcher 3's map is bigger than Los Santos - now tell me if FF7's world is confined to just Midgar?
Ooops, that's right, it isn't. No points for you.
you know what else was a planet Spira except the freedom of the amount of exploration compared to the any of these game was minuscule..
Good thing FFVII's world isn't anything like Spira's then, and that we have no reason to assume that FFVIIR's world will be anything like that either.
Just because something spans across a planet doesnt mean the size to scale is even remotely as large..
It does if they're remaking it in 1:1 scale which was the qualifier to my argument. But then, grasping that would require to to calm the F down and stop acting like a five year old on a temper tantrum.
We don't know that they will, and you're right, it might end up a tiny linear world - but it's an assumption either way. Thing is, I'm not going to get my knickers in a bunch on an assumption like you are right now.
Hell the planet of FF7 EVEN REMINDS ME OF the way SKELLIGE LOOKS FUNNY ENOUGH..
Omg, it reminds you of it. Good for you. That's not an argument.
They might as well be the same amount of territory.. Witcher 3 might as well just be a planet scaled several times larger..
It might, and it might not.
This is a 1/1000 scale recreation of Midgar :
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/8/8e/Midgar_Real_Life_Model.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090416140341)
You do the math, and consider how big the world of FFVII is.
https://www.primagames.com/media/images/news/the_witcher_3_skellige_main_quests_hero_image.jpg
Apparently this doesnt scale with something like Cosmo canyon lol... You gotta love Fanboys
Except I said no such thing. I said that the most of the FFVII world is likely see expansion as well as the fact that the world is quite large as it is.
That's why the assumption that FFVIIR will end up smaller or at the same size as Witcher 3 is not just an empty assumption - it's a poor assumption.
Now take a hike.
Also Really you arent being indicative of physical size your whole arguement was based upon the premise that a Medieval Cities scale could never be the scale of a modern city WHEN YOUR OWN ARTICLE TOLD YOU OTHERWISE LOS SANTOS WHICH IS A MODERN CITY IS A FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s TERRITORY
You're comparing a modern city to all of Witcher 3's territory. I was comparing cities to cities, which is a point you started making - not me.
Again, take a hike. You're arguments are shait, your internet rage is pathetic, and your double/triple posting is a blight on the forum.
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By this assumption we would have to say that Los Santos which doesnt even include all of the city mind you it also includes a ton of outskirts and rural area, is at least the size of Novigrad plus Velen which Novigrad IS PART OF VELEN hell they might as well be equivalent territories seeing as how Vellen and Novigrad are roughly a third of the entire games land mass..
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Omg, it reminds you of it. Good for you. That's not an argument.
Okay, that was hilarious. I can leave this thread now.
Zetaman: I hope SE proves your theories wrong. They might drop the ball, but they also might not. It is just too early to tell.
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I love how your reading comprehension and flailing about trying to confirm your own biases is at the level of a religious child.
Yes, the entirety of Witcher 3's map is bigger than Los Santos - now tell me if FF7's world is confined to just Midgar?
Ooops, that's right, it isn't. No points for you.
Good thing FFVII's world isn't anything like Spira's then, and that we have no reason to assume that FFVIIR's world will be anything like that either.
It does if they're remaking it in 1:1 scale which was the qualifier to my argument. But then, grasping that would require to to calm the F down and stop acting like a five year old on a temper tantrum.
We don't know that they will, and you're right, it might end up a tiny linear world - but it's an assumption either way. Thing is, I'm not going to get my knickers in a bunch on an assumption like you are right now.
Omg, it reminds you of it. Good for you. That's not an argument.
It might, and it might not.
This is a 1/1000 scale recreation of Midgar :
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/8/8e/Midgar_Real_Life_Model.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090416140341)
You do the math, and consider how big the world of FFVII is.
Except I said no such thing. I said that the most of the FFVII world is likely see expansion as well as the fact that the world is quite large as it is.
That's why the assumption that FFVIIR will end up smaller or at the same size as Witcher 3 is not just an empty assumption - it's a poor assumption.
Now take a hike.
You're comparing a modern city to all of Witcher 3's territory. I was comparing cities to cities, which is a point you started making - not me.
Again, take a hike. You're arguments are shait, your internet rage is pathetic, and your double/triple posting is a blight on the forum.
A 1/1 scale of a planet would roughly be 25k miles around... Your telling me Square is going to make a 1/1 scale of a planet? Apparently you didn't graduate middle-school astronomy class. Current technology cant even reach a fraction of this size, better yet the fact that lets face it, you think square would give a strawberries better yet be able to do so in 3 years? wow.. I was comparing btw Novigrad and Velen to Los Santos which Novigrad and Velen are one territory with a major hub city, pretty much the same format as Los Santos. And btw the calculations assuming Velen and Novigrad are 1/3 of the maps territory than Los Santos city scale would pretty much match evenly with Velen and Novigrad in terms of Km2. As I said the scale of a game in terms of physical size is determined by its actual size relative to real measurements such as kilometers. Nothing in the gaming industry has gotten close to Witchers scale.. And with 3 years of development time I doubt Square would even come close as well.
And better yet how about we do some basic math here assuming my approximations are correct. The formula for area is Length X Width. Lets say your Midgar model was 6 feet long by 5 feet wide that seems fair right? judging by its scale with the people in the background and average height being approx 5.9 I would say that's a fair assumption. Assuming this was the case and you multiplied this by a grand that would only equal 2.79 KM^2 in a rectangular area. Far from even a fraction of the area of Witchers Map..
Again Basic Basic BASIC LOGIC PUT IN HERE
Also I fail to see how the english language and all statements must be rendered as arguments.. I merely wished to point out that Skellige and the world of FF7 had very similar land mass structures but apparently that's ridiculous you know.. I mean If I don't structure all of my sentences in an argumentative format that's stupid right???
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A 1/1 scale of a planet would roughly be 25k miles around... Your telling me Square is going to make a 1/1 scale of a planet? Apparently you didn't graduate middle-school astronomy class.
You are making some astronomical assumptions here. Not all planets have the same circumference.
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A 1/1 scale of a planet would roughly be 25k miles around... Your telling me Square is going to make a 1/1 scale of a planet?
Now, I'm saying they might be considering making something to a 1:1 scale of FFVII's world - which is, by any standards, a pretty small world.
It could still very much be bigger than the countries you find yourself in the Witcher 3.
Keep rowing though.
I was comparing btw Novigrad and Velen to Los Santos which Novigrad and Velen are one territory with a major hub city, pretty much the same format as Los Santos.
Except that for your analogy to be correct you should be comparing Novigrad, the actual city areal, to Los Santos's city areal, which you're not doing, so still no cookie.
And btw the calculations assuming Velen and Novigrad are 1/3 of the maps territory than Los Santos city scale would pretty much match evenly with Velen and Novigrad in terms of Km2. As I said the scale of a game in terms of physical size is determined by its actual size relative to real measurements such as kilometers. Nothing in the gaming industry has gotten close to Witchers scale.. And with 3 years of development time I doubt Square would even come close as well.
Except we have no idea how long it's going to take until all the parts of FFVIIR are out, and there's the fact that this game is being outsourced to multiple companies. It's not just Square or CC2 doing the work. The interviews clearly stated that they're using MULTIPLE companies for this game in ADDITION to CC2 and Square.
And better yet how about we do some basic math here assuming my approximations are correct. The formula for area is Length X Width. Lets say your Midgar model was 6 feet long by 5 feet wide that seems fair right? judging by its scale with the people in the background and average height being approx 5.9 I would say that's a fair assumption. Assuming this was the case and you multiplied this by a grand that would only equal 2.79 KM^2 in a rectangular area. Far from even a fraction of the area of Witchers Map..
Which would be that one city. I see you conventiently forgot to do what I actual asked you to do - calculate the size of FFVII's world using Midgar for scale. And on top of that, leave some room for the expanses they have in the works. Come back to me once you've done that.
Again Basic Basic BASIC LOGIC PUT IN HERE
You are not in a position to ask for something you do not possess an inch of.
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To those still defending Square: UNLESS episode 1 contains AT LEAST as much as the original game and additional episodes have completely new content expanding on the story IN A LOGICAL WAY; Then this is nothing short of greedy and prideful on Square's part.
That said, let's move away from the possibility of it being episodes like we think an anime or manga are episodic. Perhaps these are segmented games the way Pokemon is. You have to have both to get 100% or at least know someone that has the others. This is STILL a cash grab for SE as you aren't getting the full experience with full retail price of a "full game". That's why I never picked up Pokemon and am surprised that ever took off.
I wouldn't say that it has to be the exact scope and content of the original in each entry, but at least each entry needs to feel like a complete experience while at the same time being tied to the others to create a cohesive whole.
But my main point is that if each entry is a "full-sized" game like they have said each one will be, and that the games are actually good, there will be no reason to complain. If they are not good, or are not satisfying on their own, there is no point in owning the remake anyways, whether it is a multi-release or not.
The only way this is greedy on their part is if each "game" in the multi-release is just a fraction of FF7 (with no added content) sold for $60, at which point its easy to not purchase the game and protest with your wallet.
I love how people are fine with the prospect of paying 180 dollars for a game that should be 60 and for a game that ideally in the past would be and would have been worked on for at least 6 years by square.
I assume this was directed at me, and so I'll respond by saying that just because I think that the prospect of multiple games is not inherently bad does not mean I have any plan of buying the game $60, let alone $180. Your opinion on the quality of the content should have a much bigger influence on what you purchase rather than holding tightly to a price-point like it is holy.
I believe in capitalism, so I'm not against games releasing at whatever fucking price the company wants to. If at some point my interest in the game = the price that it is set at or is eventually on sale for I will get the game.
Each entry in the FF13 series was available for $20 before the release year was over, so if you thought $60 each was too much you could easily have gotten the entire trilogy for $60. I don't see how it wouldn't be the same for FF7. If it is a quality product and people want it the price will remain high, but if it's not worth what they ask the price will inevitably drop.
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Earth Is one of the Smallest planets in our Solar System.. and 25k miles around is what would be the scale of a planet.. If you where to make it any smaller assuming the world of FF7 follows the laws of physics as you people want to play by, the gravitational pull of the planet would be soo light life would be unsustainable. Assuming Midgar has the same gravititational properties as earth which it seems it does, it would have to be roughly the size of earth to warrent its believe-ability. But even it it wasn't and the developers decided to ignore all laws of physics, this would only strengthen my arguement as the scale of their endeavor practically would have to be counting also on a technical standpoint a TINY TINY planet in real world sense.
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Earth Is one of the Smallest planets in our Solar System.. and 25k miles around is what would be the scale of a planet.. If you where to make it any smaller assuming the world of FF7 follows the laws of physics as you people want to play by, the gravitational pull of the planet would be soo light life would be unsustainable. Assuming Midgar has the same gravititational properties as earth which it seems it does, it would have to be roughly the size of earth to warrent its believe-ability. But even it it wasn't and the developers decided to ignore all laws of physics, this would only strengthen my arguement as the scale of their endeavor practically would have to be counting also on a technical standpoint a TINY TINY planet in real world sense.
This is the most contrived argument I've ever heard. When did FF games ever even slightly care about consistent physics in their games?
I guess by that logic Xenoblade Chronicles X shouldn't exist (big open world planet, that is still way too small to sustain life in the real world).
People in game development don't make planets based on real world physics - they make them based on what works for the game and for the lore.
My argument is simply that it isn't entirely unreasonable to expect a 1:1 scale version of FFVII's world as it is presented in the original, small as it is - and that small as it is, it might very well be bigger than what we've seen in other open world RPGs up until now.
In either case, it all boils down to content times size. You simply cannot make the assumption that this game is going to be smaller than say Witcher 3, or that it would all fit on a single disk, when you literally have no idea how much they plan to make, or what the scale of the world is.
You literally know nothing of the scope of this game as it stands right now.
I am not making the affirmative argument that this game is going to be bigger than Witcher 3, I am making the argument that you have no way of knowing that it will be smaller, and as such, your entire tirade here is unwarranted and ridiculous.
You're working entirely off of assumptions towards a positive claim you have no way of demonstrating to be true, and using that to fuel your own anger and distress. It's utterly beyond me how you can possible think that's constructive in any way shape or manner.
As a caveat though - whether this game would fit into a single installment or not also depends on much more than world-size.
Could you fit Uncharted 1-3 on a single disk? All of FF13 or the three next installments of Tekken for that matter?
Games take space in many different ways depending on content and context.
We know nothing about FFVIIR as of this moment.
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Now, I'm saying they might be considering making something to a 1:1 scale of FFVII's world - which is, by any standards, a pretty small world.
It could still very much be bigger than the countries you find yourself in the Witcher 3.
Keep rowing though.
Except that for your analogy to be correct you should be comparing Novigrad, the actual city areal, to Los Santos's city areal, which you're not doing, so still no cookie.
Except we have no idea how long it's going to take until all the parts of FFVIIR are out, and there's the fact that this game is being outsourced to multiple companies. It's not just Square or CC2 doing the work. The interviews clearly stated that they're using MULTIPLE companies for this game in ADDITION to CC2 and Square.
Which would be that one city. I see you conventiently forgot to do what I actual asked you to do - calculate the size of FFVII's world using Midgar for scale. And on top of that, leave some room for the expanses they have in the works. Come back to me once you've done that.
You are not in a position to ask for something you do not possess an inch of.
On a technical Level in DX 11 A world can be larger than around over 150-200 km2 its just not even possible on a technological standpoint given the fact that DX11 can only handle up to 8 light sources at a time better yet the massive data involved in doing so. Maybe if FF7 was DX12 I would believe it might be possible but it isn't. Add the fact that you were saying they were making a scale of a 1/1 planet that assumed a you know PLANET.. A planet is a very specific size, and assuming the world of ff7 follows the same laws of physics as the real world which it seems to at least follow some gravity exists for example, the planet you speak of would be soo small it would have a gravitational force that wouldnt even be able to sustain basic life. If you make things not to scale you dont have to worry about this you see... Which is why in a practical sense unless the world was the size of the moon and everyone there was jam packed like a street in india it would make no sense from a practical standpoint.. This isnt to "scale" Its not even physically possible.. But I guess Logic to understand that isn't quite obvious
Los Santos btw as I stated before around half of Los Santos is Rural area, Hmm not unlike Velen which btw actually consists of other cities. If you took only the city of Los santos and splintered all other territory including the rural area, and compared it to novigrad which is 1/4 of the size of the entire map scale, than they would pretty much be even.. considering the rural area of Los santos consists of roughly a third of the maps area substract that from 45km2 which would only be 30km2 Novigrad being 1/4 the size of the 136km2 territory Novigrad would actually be SLIGHTLY LARGER lol
Midgar itself is 2.97 km^2
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/7/map2.png this is the world of FF7 rendered by a satellite like view
there are roughly 32 main areas that consist of the world of FF7
Midgar takes up around 1/32 the size of that regions area. Multiply 3km^2 times 32 assuming every other territory was in scale to Midgar the Map size would still be only 96km^2
Not to say that isnt impressive, but its not even close to the 1/1 scale of a planet..
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This is the most contrived argument I've ever heard. When did FF games ever even slightly care about consistent physics in their games?
I guess by that logic Xenoblade Chronicles X shouldn't exist (big open world planet, that is still way too small to sustain life in the real world).
People in game development don't make planets based on real world physics - they make them based on what works for the game and for the lore.
My argument is simply that it isn't entirely unreasonable to expect a 1:1 scale version of FFVII's world as it is presented in the original, small as it is - and that small as it is, it might very well be bigger than what we've seen in other open world RPGs up until now.
In either case, it all boils down to content times size. You simply cannot make the assumption that this game is going to be smaller than say Witcher 3, or that it would all fit on a single disk, when you literally have no idea how much they plan to make, or what the scale of the world is.
You literally know nothing of the scope of this game as it stands right now.
I am not making the affirmative argument that this game is going to be bigger than Witcher 3, I am making the argument that you have no way of knowing that it will be smaller, and as such, your entire tirade here is unwarranted and ridiculous.
You're working entirely off of assumptions towards a positive claim you have no way of demonstrating to be true, and using that to fuel your own anger and distress. It's utterly beyond me how you can possible think that's constructive in any way shape or manner.
As a caveat though - whether this game would fit into a single installment or not also depends on much more than world-size.
Could you fit Uncharted 1-3 on a single disk? All of FF13 or the three next installments of Tekken for that matter?
Games take space in many different ways depending on content and context.
We know nothing about FFVIIR as of this moment.
You know what your right I'm working off of plain assumption especially when it is clear that given the release date, they are in a development cycle for the first installment of this game for at most 3 years.. I'm further working off of assumption when I actually MEASURE the size of content by real world standards an argument you tried to use against me with regard to the 1/1000 scale of midgar.. Im also working off of even more assumption when I look at Squares track record and what they are capable of coupled with what they are offering on the table.. A game that has been in fraction of the development cycle of many of there other projects but because it has FF7 on its package they are already announcing a episodic release.. Why dont they do this for KH3 then or FF15 PART 1 PART 2 PART 3? Why because they know it doesnt have the same name as FF7 by far their most popular project.. Again all assumption though..
Also Im not making an affirmative argument that one game is going to be larger than the other, Im just well lets not say assumming because you would never do that, suggesting is more like it that A modern city scale is quote retarded to compare to a Medieval city.. Oh and further that you wanted me to do the math for the size of the world of FF7 outside of Midgar because apparently I was unfairly singling out "one city" that you said could easily be 10 times bigger than any city in witcher 3
Oh and also about the planet argument I precisely said the difference between scale and non scale.. The majority if not all devs dont claim to make anything to 1/1 scale in land mass because it is physically impossible to unless Xenosagas devs said clearly we are going to make a 1/1 scale planet which you stated earlier, than non scale allows them freedom. I was simply pointing out the assertion that scale implies physical property, when you do something to scale, you compare it to real world properties thats what scale is, If it isnt physically possible well then it isnt to scale lol.
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I wouldn't say that it has to be the exact scope and content of the original in each entry, but at least each entry needs to feel like a complete experience while at the same time being tied to the others to create a cohesive whole.
But my main point is that if each entry is a "full-sized" game like they have said each one will be, and that the games are actually good, there will be no reason to complain. If they are not good, or are not satisfying on their own, there is no point in owning the remake anyways, whether it is a multi-release or not.
The only way this is greedy on their part is if each "game" in the multi-release is just a fraction of FF7 (with no added content) sold for $60, at which point its easy to not purchase the game and protest with your wallet.
I assume this was directed at me, and so I'll respond by saying that just because I think that the prospect of multiple games is not inherently bad does not mean I have any plan of buying the game $60, let alone $180. Your opinion on the quality of the content should have a much bigger influence on what you purchase rather than holding tightly to a price-point like it is holy.
I believe in capitalism, so I'm not against games releasing at whatever ferning price the company wants to. If at some point my interest in the game = the price that it is set at or is eventually on sale for I will get the game.
Each entry in the FF13 series was available for $20 before the release year was over, so if you thought $60 each was too much you could easily have gotten the entire trilogy for $60. I don't see how it wouldn't be the same for FF7. If it is a quality product and people want it the price will remain high, but if it's not worth what they ask the price will inevitably drop.
You know that was actually a statement I could respect, so you have my thanks.. However I still believe people shouldnt be so easily swayed to be anti consumers and to defend sub standard work, not to say FF7 remake is, but its def not imo what square is truly capable of. I honestly respect your opinion though probably one of the smartest things someone has said all night on a moderate stance and not fanboyish stance. (If it sounds like im trying to be a douche I really am not trying Im being honest here)
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On a technical Level in DX 11 A world can be larger than around over 150-200 km2 its just not even possible on a technological standpoint given the fact that DX11 can only handle up to 8 light sources at a time better yet the massive data involved in doing so.
This assumes it's going to be one open world, not a segmented one like FF15, where areas will be loaded in as you travel.
Keep on racking up on those assumptions though.
Maybe if FF7 was DX12 I would believe it might be possible but it isn't. Add the fact that you were saying they were making a scale of a 1/1 planet that assumed a you know PLANET.. A planet is a very specific size, and assuming the world of ff7 follows the same laws of physics as the real world which it seems to at least follow some gravity exists for example, the planet you speak of would be soo small it would have a gravitational force that wouldnt even be able to sustain basic life.
Not of "a planet" of "the planet of FFVII" - there is a pretty large distinction which should be apparent to anyone with basic reading comprehension.
Also, good job conveniently ignoring the point that this would be equally true for Xenoblade Chronicles X, yet no a single F was given about this when they designed their planet. Good job.
If you make things not to scale you dont have to worry about this you see... Which is why in a practical sense unless the world was the size of the moon and everyone there was jam packed like a street in india it would make no sense from a practical standpoint.. This isnt to "scale" Its not even physically possible.. But I guess Logic to understand that isn't quite obvious
No you see, because if you could grasp basic reading, you'd know I wasn't talking about planets in the sense you're talking about them here - I am talking about a planet in a game - and a planet in a game, like physics in a game, or like pretty much everything in a game, does not have to be consistent with reality. "But I guess Logic to understand that isn't quite obvious" (don't you mean "But I guess the logic it takes to understand that isn't quite obvious.")
Los Santos btw as I stated before around half of Los Santos is Rural area, Hmm not unlike Velen which btw actually consists of other cities. If you took only the city of Los santos and splintered all other territory including the rural area, and compared it to novigrad which is 1/4 of the size of the entire map scale, than they would pretty much be even.. considering the rural area of Los santos consists of roughly a third of the maps area substract that from 45km2 which would only be 30km2 Novigrad being 1/4 the size of the 136km2 territory Novigrad would actually be SLIGHTLY LARGER lol
You're saying the free city of Novigrad alone (this : http://www.gry-online.pl/galeria/mapy/77555369_421.jpg) is about the same size of Los Santos city areal. I think your math is way off.
Midgar itself is 2.97 km^2
http://www.finalfantasykingdom.net/7/map2.png this is the world of FF7 rendered by a satellite like view
there are roughly 32 main areas that consist of the world of FF7
Midgar takes up around 1/32 the size of that regions area. Multiply 3km^2 times 32 assuming every other territory was in scale to Midgar the Map size would still be only 96km^2
Not to say that isnt impressive, but its not even close to the 1/1 scale of a planet..
Not of a planet, no - but it would be the 1:1 scale of the planet of FFVII, because that's what it is in the game - a planet - and that's it's scale.
But by all means, keep on getting stuck in semantics and fight a windmill.
So we can agree that if they were to remake FFVII we're looking at approximately 96km^2 of land before we even start to consider added content, or expansions of areas.
Then we consider content, within the world, graphical fidelity, game-play systems etc.
Tell me again how it's inconceivable that this game will need several disks?
You know what your right I'm working off of plain assumption especially when it is clear that given the release date, they are in a development cycle for the first installment of this game for at most 3 years..
You don't know the release date, and neither does anyone else.
I'm further working off of assumption when I actually MEASURE the size of content by real world standards an argument you tried to use against me with regard to the 1/1000 scale of midgar..
No, I was making the argument that if we're going to talk about the size of the remake we should be going by a 1:1 of the original game's world - not real world standards, but whatever.
Im also working off of even more assumption when I look at Squares track record and what they are capable of coupled with what they are offering on the table...
Care to elaborate?
A game that has been in fraction of the development cycle of many of there other projects but because it has FF7 on its package they are already announcing a episodic release.. Why dont they do this for KH3 then or FF15 PART 1 PART 2 PART 3? Why because they know it doesnt have the same name as FF7 by far their most popular project.. Again all assumption though..
Maybe they will?
Also, it's quite obvious that KH aims to deliver a completely different game-play experience from FFVIIR, so why you'd even compare the two is beyond me.
Also Im not making an affirmative argument that one game is going to be larger than the other,
Then how is that you're arguing it makes no sense to put this game on multiple disks?
Im just well lets not say assumming because you would never do that, suggesting is more like it that A modern city scale is quote retarded to compare to a Medieval city..
It is the vast majority of the time, unless you're comparing old empirical capitals to rural modern villages, when you consider history and human development. But hey... Do go on.
Oh and further that you wanted me to do the math for the size of the world of FF7 outside of Midgar because apparently I was unfairly singling out "one city" that you said could easily be 10 times bigger than any city in witcher 3
Which it still could. We don't know one way or the other. I am not making the assumption that it is - I am asking you to consider that you might be wrong in your assumption that it won't.
I also wasn't asking you to consider Midgar's size for it's own sake - I was asking you to do it to grasp the scale of FFVII's world, which you now have, and admit is size-able. And that's the bare minimum if (and only if) they plan on remaking this to a 1:1 scale of the original world.
Oh and also about the planet argument I precisely said the difference between scale and non scale.. The majority if not all devs dont claim to make anything to 1/1 scale in land mass because it is physically impossible to unless Xenosagas devs said clearly we are going to make a 1/1 scale planet which you stated earlier, than non scale allows them freedom.
Again, I was talking about the size of FFVII's world not a planet in the sense of astrophysics and the real world.
The Xenoblade devs made a planet. The FFVII devs made a planet. Both of these are fictional planets.
The difference is that FFVII's planet wasn't made in scale to its characters - as is made patently F'ing obvious by the FFVII world-map.
Xenoblade on the other hand was. Things are scaled to the size of the characters.
My point about scaling of world is only relevant to FFVII because FFVII relied on a miniature abstraction to represent the world around the characters. When I say remaking FFVII in a 1:1 scale I am referring to making the world the size it should be based on the measurement of characters and objects within that world, and silly me, I thought that would be F'ing apparent to anyone who's played the game.
Apparently not to you though.
I was simply pointing out the assertion that scale implies physical property, when you do something to scale, you compare it to real world properties thats what scale is, If it isnt physically possible well then it isnt to scale lol.
You have a quaint idea of scale. Scale is a concept that deals with the abstract concept of measurement.
Remaking the world of FFVII to a 1:1 scale does not mean making it to a realistic scale - it means making all the objects in the world proportionate to standard length in the real world I.E if Cloud represents a human who is 1.75m tall, but the world around him has cities being roughly the size of his body, these cities are not in scale. They are miniatures.
Scaling FFVII to a 1:1 in that context, refers specifically to scaling the in-game world elements to proportion with one another, as they weren't in the OG.
This is readily apparent to anyone who's not a complete idiot.
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Enough of the petty arguing. Zetaman and hian, enjoy your warn levels. Everyone else, enjoy the thread being locked. ~Covarr