Author Topic: Level 99 break?  (Read 9585 times)

FF74EVER

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Level 99 break?
« on: 2012-09-27 23:06:42 »
Tried searching level 99 break, over level 99, beyond level 99, etc. No dice. Just curious if anyone has ever tried it or if it's even possible? That would be sooooo awesome. Considering I usually hit 99 on the first disc ;)

Vgr

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #1 on: 2012-09-27 23:53:11 »
Can you be a bit more precise?

If you meant to go over level 99, it's possible, up to 255, by cheating. If you can get to level 99 on the first disc (considering you've got more patience than me and spend at least 200 hours levelling at Mideel) then you can use Black Chocobo. Or something the like.

nfitc1

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #2 on: 2012-09-28 02:57:16 »
It's possible, but there are SO many checks at play to limit the level to 99 that it's a very large task. Just checking on level up isn't enough. There are lots of places in damage formulae that force the level back down to 99 if it goes over. Presumably it was part of an old structure where enemies could have higher than level 99. I'll give it a look tomorrow though and see how much it effort it would take.

omega res novae

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #3 on: 2012-09-28 03:01:55 »
i like the idea but i personally would only like it with a super hard difficulty where super grinding is what you need. also with only 127(i think cant remember) weapons i feel like youd still be grinding long after you get best equipment

DLPB_

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #4 on: 2012-09-28 05:06:41 »
The level is a number.  It is neither awesome or bad.  If you find it too easy to reach level 99 then make the game harder with many of the tools available.  And I don't mean make harder just by raising stats, that's the way a game like Final Fantasy XII would do it.  Change AI of enemies, make a game where you have to think.

There is an unhealthy obsession around these parts with "big numbers".  Break HP, Break damage limit, break level, more ap, more battle points, more experience, more HP for enemy.

They are all numbers.  Understand that.  There is nothing good or bad about a number.  Nothing intellectually stimulating or clever.  Good game design can work with HP limits of 1000 or HP limits of 10000000.  It can work with numbers or health bars.  This idea that numbers are important is in your mind.  Good game design exists based on content and quality of the game itself.

An enemy isn't amazing because it has super quadzillion HP (See that brainless joke called Final Fantasy XII), nor is it cool that you get "level 255" or "99999 HP".  Realise this, people.

End rant.

Edit.

Although, saying that... level 100 does look better than 99... so from aesthetic pov, I understand it.
« Last Edit: 2015-03-23 22:31:00 by DLPB »

omega res novae

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #5 on: 2012-09-28 10:18:08 »
True i agree with that statement. Still never beat yiazmat legitimatly or cheating. Level 255 first thing that comes to mind is star ocean til the end of time. The only way i beat that gem was grinding for long periods of time. But in ff7 to me it would have to serve a point and be implemented effectively

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #6 on: 2012-09-28 10:40:54 »
star ocean was designed for lvl 255
ff7 isn't

omega res novae

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #7 on: 2012-09-28 10:44:55 »
As i said to serve a point and be implemented effectively

Bosola

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #8 on: 2012-09-28 12:52:33 »
The level is a number.  It is neither awesome or bad.  If you find it too easy to reach level 99 then make the game harder with many of the tools available.  And I don't mean make harder just by raising stats, that's the way a game like Final Fantasy XII would do it.  Change AI of enemies, make a game where you have to think.

Quite. If you're so desperate for 99,999 HP and 9,999 MP, make the typical range of HP 0-999 and use the thousands as your 'grind' space.

DEFIANT

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #9 on: 2012-09-28 15:03:04 »
Damn, I went through and doubled all the enemies HP/MP trying to make myself a harder FF7. I thought it might be a good challenge plus it seemed like a easy hard mod. That explains the lack of such a mod for FF7.

With the above statements, I'm curious to know which enemies/monsters are [ai broken]? Meaning they're not living up to their full potential. Is there a list any where? Some documentation on it? I would much rather try to change them.

The hard mods that exist change too much of the items, armor and weapons for my taste. I would prefer a simple hard mod that changed just enemies behavior that, like was mentioned before, made you think. Everything else would be left intact.

nfitc1

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #10 on: 2012-09-28 16:58:04 »
I wouldn't say they're broken (as in don't work or overpowered), but about 5 out of every 7 enemies have the generic "Normal attack, but every now and then attack with a "special attack"" AI script about it. Even most bosses follow very predictable patterns. As in, if you see it attack for about four or five rounds it's just going to do the same thing over and over again. Then it just becomes a beat-down survival battle.

Serpent has a decently dynamic AI pattern for a common enemy. The biggest problem in this game isn't numbers or AI, it's too many OSKO moves that can kill some bosses before they get a chance to act. That's part of what I like about FFIX, no multi hit attacks. Ozma is still more terrifying to me than any of the WEAPONs in this game.

If you want a lesson in complexity of AI, study Eligor's Main script. Now THAT'S now to prepare an enemy. Too bad it's so big there's not enough room for anyone else. :(

FF74EVER

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #11 on: 2012-10-04 01:06:39 »
I was actually thinking more of like just the experience points to keep leveling past 99, just to make materia building more fun. ;) obviously you wouldnt really need the stats to go up because you can just use black chocobo for that. :)

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #12 on: 2012-10-04 01:08:14 »
too much effort for too little gain

Bosola

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #13 on: 2012-10-04 12:38:51 »
If you want a lesson in complexity of AI, study Eligor's Main script. Now THAT'S now to prepare an enemy. Too bad it's so big there's not enough room for anyone else. :-(

How much space would we save by using common script code across different scenes? Does the ZIP compression look 'across' multiple scenes to find common symbols, or is analysis performed on a per-scene basis?

Quote
Serpent has a decently dynamic AI pattern for a common enemy.

The thing is, many dynamic scripts aren't actually that fun to play against unless they're handled very carefully. Making enemies respond to debuffs and prioritize their actions sounds like a neat idea, but the result is often that the player no longer has a reason to do anything other than attack. What's the point of using silence if an enemy just switches from magic to physicals? Why use reflect if a monster will just cast it on itself? I might as well just use attacks and save myself the MP.

With Rebirth, I tried to get around this through stat and encounter design (eg make a monster's physical attacks weaker than its magic, and give it silence vulnerability), but in practice I just wasn't satisfied with the results. I didn't feel that players could easily perceive how, despite the change in behaviour, the monster was still less threatening. I also found that 'vindictive' AI behaviour (like prioritizing weakened targets and compounding status effects) just made the game more punishing for the weakest and least experienced players.
« Last Edit: 2012-10-04 12:52:22 by Bosola »

nfitc1

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #14 on: 2012-10-04 14:45:09 »
Does the ZIP compression look 'across' multiple scenes to find common symbols, or is analysis performed on a per-scene basis?

per-scene. There's only ever one scene unpacked in memory at any given time. That's why you can't have more than three unique enemies in a formation. Hojo gets around this by having each of his battles be in a different scene with the "load next battle" field populated (0x0002 in the setup).

ajthedj747

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Re: Level 99 break?
« Reply #15 on: 2012-10-08 09:28:16 »
I was actually thinking more of like just the experience points to keep leveling past 99, just to make materia building more fun. ;-) obviously you wouldnt really need the stats to go up because you can just use black chocobo for that. :?:
On my PSP 3000, I leveled up Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart to Level 99 because I did not want to send Aeris to her death just yet. How many hours did it take to get there? Try 67 hours of gameplay. :-D