Author Topic: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!  (Read 56216 times)

-Ori

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #150 on: 2020-04-12 19:27:16 »
i nonetheless enjoyed it for what it was for me, more of the ff formula i came to love with ff6 :P

FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time

-Ric-

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #151 on: 2020-04-12 20:13:06 »
if it has, you can thank yourself for being a contributor

there are about 5 posts hanging around this forum from you that calls someone (usually DLPB...) "special" or "on the spectrum" (i'd be more than happy to link them all if you'd like)

Why are you trying to make it sound as if I want to/would hide them? Link them all you want, I couldn't care less lol. I've posted multiple times, including in response to moderator warnings that I stand by everything I've posted.

your posts pour fuel into the fire almost every time

That is true. I am trying to be less toxic and no, I'm not being sarcastic. That is why I will not address the rest of your post. If you're so keen on researching my previous posts, you will absolutely find the reason why I'm "mean" towards certain users. I'm going to stick to the topic from now. FF7R-related comments only.

The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #152 on: 2020-04-12 20:20:15 »

FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time
Signed

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #153 on: 2020-04-12 22:18:07 »
Opinion vs fact. Objective vs subjective. Like vs dislike.

It's all fine in a DISCUSSION. But do not, I repeat, DO NOT result to personal insults for justifying your arguments. It's like sl1982 said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." We all need to be above that kind of behavior and act like the civil adults we are.

If the personal insults continue, don't instigate it by responding with your own insults. Use the report button and be on your way. The Rules for these forums are clear. Consider this everyone's freebie warning.

-Ric-

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #154 on: 2020-04-12 22:19:08 »
FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time

Something we can all agree on. 6 is one of the best games ever made.

Opinion vs fact. Objective vs subjective. Like vs dislike.

It's all fine in a DISCUSSION. But do not, I repeat, DO NOT result to personal insults for justifying your arguments. It's like sl1982 said, "It's not what you say but how you say it." We all need to be above that kind of behavior and act like the civil adults we are.

If the personal insults continue, don't instigate it by responding with your own insults. Use the report button and be on your way. The Rules for these forums are clear. Consider this everyone's freebie warning.

Got it.

gjoerulv

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #155 on: 2020-04-13 00:11:28 »
I can see why people would love or hate both systems. After watching my friend playthrough the remake on a stream, the combat is certainly not as hack and slashy as it looks. You have to make a lot of mid-combat choices. And if you don't have a plan, you die.

While I do wish Square stuck with something turn based, it doesn't fully upset me either. It did for awhile.

I think there are tasteful ways to make changes to the original and still be faithful modernization of the original. Resident Evil 2 Remake is fairly close to that mark for me. I loved that game, despite missing some things from the original. I thought it was a faithful modernization.

I think FF7 could have been the same thing. The plot device at the end, and foreshadowed throughout is my main gripe - and what it means for the rest of the series. At the moment is it is a bit vague. I might end up reserving full judgement until all the parts are released. However, at the moment my aprehension is palpable.

Depends on what exactly you mean by modernization. Something is lost from the original RE2 with the addition of free camera. It's not entirely the same type of game anymore. Although, I think they would have made RE1-3 with free camera etc, if they weren't "limited". Probably. I dunno.

In the case of FF7 though, considering battle mechanics only, it was certainly not limitations that made Square chose what type of game to make. Something is gone when you remove battle mechanics entirely (duh), and what you get instead in FF7R is something that feels completely different. Natural evolution? No, this is not the "natural evolution" of turn based games, and it's certainly not a faithful adaptation of it. It could probably be an entirely different type of action game and some people (probably the same people) would still call it a faithful adaptation. Not saying action games are bad btw.

The impression I get however, from reviews and so forth, is that this is indeed thee natural evolution off FF7.
I wonder how people would react if FF7R-2 changes genre again to, lets say, FPS. Would that be bad? Not a natural next step? Why is change bad? Why is it ok for FF7R to change genre from the original, but not FF7R-2 to change genre from FF7R? Personally I would find it interesting if SE does that. To see how people react.

And on the new plot stuff. FF7 originally was a bit too convoluted, imo. The new story elements kinda escalates the convolution exponentially. And is, at least at the face of it, questionable at best, but comes off as horribly juvenile storytelling. It's how I would picture a mid schooler write a FF7 fanfic if they played too much kingdom hearts.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #156 on: 2020-04-13 00:20:01 »
Spoiler: show

https://youtu.be/aRN2bKyf8So

“Nailed it. I know. Thank you. Moving on.”  :-D


Coming in, I thought I’d be cringing at the VA dialog because I’ve always had my own imagination of the character’s personalities. But, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by most of the characters. Biggs is the only one I’m not feeling any connection with so far.

The impression I get however, from reviews and so forth, is that this is indeed thee natural evolution off FF7.
I wonder how people would react if FF7R-2 changes genre again to, lets say, FPS. Would that be bad? Not a natural next step? Why is change bad? Why is it ok for FF7R to change genre from the original, but not FF7R-2 to change genre from FF7R? Personally I would find it interesting if SE does that. To see how people react.

That would be a hard one to swallow for me. I’m not into the FPS genre, so the RPG elements would have to really shine.

Tekkie.X

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #157 on: 2020-04-13 01:19:57 »
It's odd with Biggs because Gideon Emery is a decent VA but it's more the script for Biggs, it really doesn't have much to it with no real chance to stand out.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #158 on: 2020-04-13 02:45:21 »
I think you're right. The script (and maybe director) doesn't give him much to shine upon. Reminds me of Hayden Christensen for the Star Wars prequels. Good actor with mediocre writing and direction to work with.

Mabinog

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #159 on: 2020-04-13 05:02:02 »
You know, aside from a few things like Roche and the Watchmen of Fate, I'm actually enjoying some of the new content they added to expand the story.

Spoiler: show
Visiting Jessie's house in the plate was pretty neat. And chapter 6 had a cool concept for a level, where you're directly underneath the plate suspended above the slums. The backgrounds in this game are really beautiful. And I heard good stuff about the Church and Wall Market portions of the game, even though I haven't gotten there yet.


I'm a little torn. When the game is accurate to the story I think it's very good stuff. But I know by the end the story is going to take the story in a very different direction, and it's concerning. Guess we just gotta wait and see.

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #160 on: 2020-04-13 06:26:40 »
Yup and this is why the Final Fantasy franchise has been ruined since FFX. It’s just not even worth talking about anymore I give up on this company and all it’s new games. Square will continue to make horrible games and these idiots who support them will continue to do so and defend them to the end so it just is what it is. The true fans can only finally throw in the towel and let this company die off with time. We always have our SquareSoft masterpieces to enjoy the new age of “fans” will never understand that.

Final Fantasy died when Hironobu Sakaguchi left.  It's basically been a zombie ever since.

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #161 on: 2020-04-13 06:32:12 »
FF6 is the ultimate proof that graphics should take a back seat to script, gameplay, music, etc

games on the SNES stand the test of time

The ridiculous thing about this is, SE KNOWS how to do good remakes.  They did multiple great remakes of FF4 (excluding the DS remake and it's ports, which are shit, much for the same reasons as this; changing things that didn't need to be changed, although at least there they had an excuse), a great remake of FF5 and a great remake of FF6.  Not to mention decent remakes of FF1, FF2 and FF3.  Why the fuck can't they get the 3D remakes right?

Manakaiser

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #162 on: 2020-04-13 06:41:27 »
ff6 remake being great Is something i cant agree with (although I do admit they made a fair effort). They killed the grim atmosphere of the original due do the new visuals. I commend the fact that they DID give it new visuals, but sadly I think they were bad and didnt capture the originals spirit in many areas, especially the horrible towns (enemy sprite improvements were very welcome and well done btw so those are excluded from the criticism).

Sorry for the off topic btw, I wont mention ff6 any further ><
« Last Edit: 2020-04-13 06:52:05 by Manakaiser »

The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #163 on: 2020-04-13 10:18:05 »
Quote
They did multiple great remakes of FF4 (excluding the DS remake and it's ports, which are strawberries, much for the same reasons as this; changing things that didn't need to be changed, although at least there they had an excuse), a great remake of FF5 and a great remake of FF6.

I would like to say smth about the Gameboy advance versions here:

I really appreciated the additional content especially in FFV Advance because:

a) it has NO effect on the main story
b) it's completely optional to do
c) it's additional content on the gameplay side, new class, new skills, great
d) the new superboss was already mentioned to be the greatest threat of all times a thousand years ago and while it may storywise seem a bit lackluster that there's just an underwater temple containing an entrance to the void where you meet him it is also a pleasure that they did not choose some random thing as a superboss but tried to really implement somebody worthy of rivaling the main villain in coolness and strength(thus making him worthy of the Neo-Exdeath theme). All in all content-wise an extremely good job and I play the Advance versions to this day.

However I also have to note a thing I made thread about a decade ago already. Some new additions, which is not new content but was rather meant as a nice visual addition completely makes me nod my head. The avatars shown when characters talk just do not resemble their sprites IN THE SLIGHTEST....especially ppl like Galuf are just entirely different and there is really no reason why. Newer remakes carried on this trend and it makes me a bit angry, I always have to either ignore that or mod it.....

Not to mention the name changes in the translations.....she will always be Cara or Kururu.....

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #164 on: 2020-04-13 13:30:35 »
ff6 remake being great Is something i cant agree with (although I do admit they made a fair effort). They killed the grim atmosphere of the original due do the new visuals. I commend the fact that they DID give it new visuals, but sadly I think they were bad and didnt capture the originals spirit in many areas, especially the horrible towns (enemy sprite improvements were very welcome and well done btw so those are excluded from the criticism).

Sorry for the off topic btw, I wont mention ff6 any further ><

You're thinking of the Steam version; I'm thinking of the GBA version.  The only problem with the GBA version is the brightness, which was necessary for the screen, and can be fixed with patches.  And actually, the Steam version is much better if you use Project AtmaWeapon on it.  You can even get the SNES sprites back.

However I also have to note a thing I made thread about a decade ago already. Some new additions, which is not new content but was rather meant as a nice visual addition completely makes me nod my head. The avatars shown when characters talk just do not resemble their sprites IN THE SLIGHTEST....especially ppl like Galuf are just entirely different and there is really no reason why. Newer remakes carried on this trend and it makes me a bit angry, I always have to either ignore that or mod it.....

Head avatars are based on Amano's original concept artwork, though I agree they don't match the sprites well.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-13 13:34:17 by Dark Phoenix »

Manakaiser

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #165 on: 2020-04-13 16:00:25 »
You're thinking of the Steam version; I'm thinking of the GBA version.  The only problem with the GBA version is the brightness, which was necessary for the screen, and can be fixed with patches.  And actually, the Steam version is much better if you use Project AtmaWeapon on it.  You can even get the SNES sprites back.

Head avatars are based on Amano's original concept artwork, though I agree they don't match the sprites well.

I have created the worldmap and the shimmering fix within atma weapon :P Its not what im talking about its mainly the town/some dungeon graphics that ruin it for me as the lighting and artstyle in alot of them is off, and many assets are half assed. And the snes sprites clash with the artstyle of the rest of the game and the non snes sprites are too friendly/cartoonish/dunnohowtocallit for me. It just doesnt work for me i guess.

And yes I was thinking steam as i dont really consider the gba version a remake at all. Its a port with some extras (which are admittedly good extras!) :P
« Last Edit: 2020-04-13 16:06:33 by Manakaiser »

LeonhartGR

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The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #167 on: 2020-04-14 20:35:29 »
Quote
Its a port with some extras (which are admittedly good extras!) :P

Now make a graphics overhaul and it is the perfect remake like FF7R should have been:)

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #168 on: 2020-04-14 22:57:34 »
Now make a graphics overhaul and it is the perfect remake like FF7R should have been:)

That's pretty much what the Steam version is; a graphics overhaul built on top of the GBA version (the GBA ROM is even contained in the program archive).  But as Manakaiser says, most of the "upgraded" graphics are shit.  There's a pretty good rundown on it here:

https://www.fortressofdoors.com/doing-an-hd-remake-the-right-way/
https://www.fortressofdoors.com/doing-an-hd-remake-the-right-way-ffvi-edition/

As soon as he mentioned the broken graphics, I remembered what he was talking about.

The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #169 on: 2020-04-15 14:28:46 »
Nice article that shows my agony with FFV^^

mr_nygren

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #170 on: 2020-04-16 00:39:07 »
I wrote on Youtube previously that i didn't like the kid-friendly focus of the Remake. It's pissing on the older fans who wanted a more mature game. It's not realistic after a terrorist bombing to not have blood. Or in the Shinra Headquarters. In the original game there were blood.

But not only this.. When the team is beaten they are all standing on their knee's despite having zero health. They didn't even let the characters lay unconscious on the ground.. This makes the battles seem childish and without any real danger for Cloud and the others. No one will die and as such they aren't real "life and death"-battles. But even if they were just unconscious in the original game and mistaken for dead I do still believe it's hurting the seriousness of the battles when they won't even lay down.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-16 01:03:10 by mr_nygren »

mav

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #171 on: 2020-04-16 08:37:40 »
Just finished the game and figured I'll finally check this thread to see what others on these forums think about it. Honestly I'm pretty surprised at the amount of negativity and even hostility some people here have towards the remake, its creators and fans who enjoyed it, all that mostly coming from folks who didn't even try the game and base their whole opinion on watching trailers and bits of gameplay by someone else. I would expect this level of discussion in a Youtube thread, not on Qhimm's.

If anyone cares here are my 2 cents about this game, coming from someone who's beaten the original several times both back then and recently, watched dozens of hours of videos and streams about it and spent hundreds of hours translating, modding and making tools for it. I'm obviously a big fan of the original game. It's not an exaggeration to say that it shaped me as I am today, because it sparked my interest in programming, which led me to choosing programming as my future career. Also let me just preface it by saying that I believe that what you expected before you even saw it will hugely affect whether you will like the final product. For me, from the very beginning I didn't really expect much of this game, knowing the Square Enix of today. What I expected was a new game in the FF7 universe, a reboot if you will, with modern graphics and mechanics. I just wanted a fun game that would make me nostalgic a bunch of times about 1997. And with that in mind Square delivered, and exceeded my expectations.

First of all I love almost all story changes. Almost all of them fall into one of two categories - expanding on something that was only hinted in the original or totally new elements that still fit the overall narrative. The only two things that doesn't fit them are the Watchmen of Fate and what happened in the last 2-3 hours of the game. I'm still not sold of those, but I'm open on learning more about them.

From a technical point of view this game looks and sound beautifully. Seeing some places make your jaw drop (note that's coming from someone who bought a PS4 Pro just for this game, so I don't have much comparison to other games). Music is beautiful and very thematic, it changes dynamically based on situation - for example in boss fights music will change pace as the battle progresses. Voice acting is superb (reading that someone said it's "objectively" bad made me chuckle), especially Barret's voice acting. And last but not least - the menus are SUPER fluid. They are a joy to work with. Even if the UI can't keep up with you game will still register your button presses and you can fly through the menus one you learn their layout.

Overall my personal score of this game is probably around 9 out of 10. It's not perfect, it has its flaws, both story-wise and technical flaws (I did encounter one game-breaking bug plus there were some texture issues here and there, but nothing major), but for me personally, it was totally worth the money, and I'm excited to both play it more on Hard mode and to see the next parts when Square finally releases them in 5 or 10 years ;D.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-16 09:04:37 by mav »

mav

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #172 on: 2020-04-16 10:35:27 »
"the only thing" - retconning the entire story / making it a crazy illogical sequel is somehow a minor thing that couldn't possibly piss people off.

Being pissed at some company releasing a new game is something I just can't understand. It's a new game. If it's not right up your alley then just don't play it, but also don't piss on people who did and did enjoy the experience. They didn't destroy anything. They didn't take down the old game from the stores and remotely uninstalled it from people's computers. They've just released a new game in the FF7 universe with the same characters and mostly similar plot elements. And it's not that they've promised us they will release a remake following the original story 1:1. From the very beginning they showed that they want to reimagine the original story and that's exactly what I expected from it, and got in the end. Sure, having the original FF7 with updated graphics and sound would be nice, but in my humble opinion what we got is much better than that. If I wanted to play a game that's exactly like the original but with better sound and graphics I can still play the original with community mods :).
« Last Edit: 2020-04-16 10:38:40 by mav »

Caledor

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #173 on: 2020-04-16 12:07:43 »
People are pissed off at the lie, not at the new game. They asked for a remake for 18 years and it was promised as such for the last 5 years. Now we're getting a reboot instead.

Careful though, nobody wanted or expected a carbon copy of the original. It's not a problem how Cloud and Aerith gain the dresses in WM, the important thing is that they do so.

epsilon

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #174 on: 2020-04-16 12:16:28 »
Sure, having the original FF7 with updated graphics and sound would be nice, but in my humble opinion what we got is much better than that. If I wanted to play a game that's exactly like the original but with better sound and graphics I can still play the original with community mods :).

This strikes me as a fair position, but as I stated here http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=19696.msg274987#msg274987 it depends on the assumptions you bring to the discussion. One can turn the tables and ask the question: the original FF7 endured for more than 20 years as these forums are a testament. Novelty is the shallowest of aesthetic experiences and shinyness wears off fast; replay value, a vibrant modding scene that shows the enduring value of the original vision, etc. are the true testament to a game's quality. Will the remake endure 20 years? Only History, the finest and most accurate aesthetic judge we ever had, will tell.