Author Topic: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!  (Read 56719 times)

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #175 on: 2020-04-16 12:34:53 »
Novelty is the shallowest of aesthetic experiences and shinyness wears off fast; replay value, a vibrant modding scene that shows the enduring value of the original vision, etc. are the true testament to a game's quality. Will the remake endure 20 years? Only History, the finest and most accurate aesthetic judge we ever had, will tell.

I'm more aligned to this. I have enjoyed the FF7:R (mostly) for its moment in time, but I still believe another 20 years from now the original will be dearest to my heart. The reason we continue loving certain things in life is from its original experience we had with it. Trying to relive any of those moments is great and all, but it never recaptures the original. I imagine 20 years from now, the younger kids experiencing FF7:R and the FF7 universe for the first time will argue the same.

mav

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #176 on: 2020-04-16 13:09:51 »
People are pissed off at the lie, not at the new game. They asked for a remake for 18 years and it was promised as such for the last 5 years. Now we're getting a reboot instead.

Did they promise a 1:1 remake, though? I know I personally didn't expect one, from the first trailer it was pretty apparent that they will take many liberties in terms of the story and combat, so that's what I was expecting from them for last couple of years.

I'm more aligned to this. I have enjoyed the FF7:R (mostly) for its moment in time, but I still believe another 20 years from now the original will be dearest to my heart. The reason we continue loving certain things in life is from its original experience we had with it.

Agreed, that's the case for most of us who played the original when we were young, so nostalgia drives us. This is a totally new game that couldn't possibly bring us the exact same feelings like the original did. But for me personally it came really close. Especially the music got me real hard.

Manakaiser

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #177 on: 2020-04-16 15:16:10 »
Anyone else here hates aeriths VA with a passion (and her face design but im likely alone on that one)? I skip most of the cutscenes focused on her at this point because i dislike her voice so much. Not even necessarily because its a bad job from the speaker (it might be but thats not the reason i hate it), I really cant put my finger on it. She just doesnt work for me :p

Minor complaint though, really like the remake overall despite the few flaws (flaws aside from story which is arguably silly but doesnt bother me)!
« Last Edit: 2020-04-16 15:17:49 by Manakaiser »

unab0mb

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #178 on: 2020-04-16 17:56:49 »
Anyone else here hates aeriths VA with a passion

YES. I don't know why they picked a random YouTuber to do professional voice acting for what would turn out (despite anyone's personal feelings) to be an extremely popular game, and for such an iconic character at that. Something about her...just doesn't bring in the high quality "feels" I expected. Barret? On point.

cbudd

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #179 on: 2020-04-16 23:23:00 »
As a non-PlayStation owner I can’t buy the game.  As a long time FFVII fan, though, I really wanted to see how the remake would look and where the story would go.

I’ll admit, I have always been a fan of the original game, but have invested zero time in any of the additional games or movies.  My knowledge of them is only passing, and I can’t say that the things I heard were all that encouraging, so I never pursued them.  I did read a let’s play on Dirge of Cerberus by the Dark ID that was pretty hilarious, though.

With that said, I watched a play through of the remake with an open mind.  My opinions are as follows...
Spoiler: show

Graphically, I thought it was very nice to look at.  I don’t have a frame of reference for comparing it to a lot of other AAA titles, but from an average Joe it was visually interesting.  The slums were kind of boring by nature, but Wall Market was quite a bit more interesting in my opinion.  The destroyed Sector 7 was a great addition and really gave the devastation much more gravity. 

Sound:  no complaints, but hard to mess up in a game like this. 

Voice acting:  My opinion is that the voice acting was actually really good.  This is always touchy, especially when we are dealing with a situation where there have been prior expectations set for how these characters should sound.  For me, I haven’t been exposed to other voice actors for these characters so it was only what I imagined they would have sounded like reading the text. 

As far as the main group...

Cloud:  I liked his voice.  Granted, he is pretty non-emotional in general, but he was believably emotional at the right times.  He never jarred me as being too high or low pitched, which is usually my issue with voice acting.

Barret:  I’ll be blunt:  he needed to sound like Mr. T, and that’s what we got.  He’s over the top, but it’s completely in line with the character.  At the same time, he hits the right notes on the emotional parts.

Tifa:  it took a chapter for her to grow on me, but by the end I feel like she was the right voice for the character. 

Aerith:  This one is tough.  She is a bubbly sounding VA, and in certain situations it felt like she couldn’t quite get the serious parts right.  At the same time, she was really good in other parts.  Just a little inconsistent, but not enough to totally break my immersion.

Red XIII:  My least favorite.  Not sure what I expected, but he remains the one I am least comfortable with.

The rest:  there are a lot of characters in the game, and in general I thought they were pretty good for the most part.  I think that people complaining about the voice acting acting are generally being too critical, but again it’s always very touchy and personal in my opinion.

The story:  overall, it was entertaining to me.  I definitely think that the Avalanche team benefits greatly from the remake.  In the original, they are basically just set pieces for Barret’s backstory.  While the game wants you to feel for them when they are killed, it is hard to be too invested because they are gone early and don’t get much chance for characterization.

I think that the Cloud flashbacks are well done, although the characters are seemingly oblivious to his episodes, especially towards the end when he basically passes out after rescuing Aerith from Hojo.

In general, the small story changes didn’t bother me, and in many cases I thought that they improved and expanded on the story.

Finally, I do have a few criticisms and storylines that I am not sold on or have concerns about...

#1- Avalanche members surviving.  As much as their deaths in the original are somewhat empty, having them survive in this one is almost worse because their deaths actually have more meaning in the remake.  The story is better with their loss.

#2- The whispers.  I understand the point, it’s just not a trope that I enjoy in storytelling.

#3- while I liked the shock value of killing Barret, the Sephiroth reveal and killing of the Shinra president in the original is more powerful.  Losing that for a Hojo research dungeon was not a good trade off.

#4- I’m not sure what the implications of the ending are... I am reserving judgment for the time being.

Caledor

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #180 on: 2020-04-17 01:24:51 »
Did they promise a 1:1 remake, though? I know I personally didn't expect one, from the first trailer it was pretty apparent that they will take many liberties in terms of the story and combat, so that's what I was expecting from them for last couple of years.
Never said I expected a 1:1 remake. Cause that's no remake, that's a remaster. I won't even bother discussing gameplay aspects, cause those are not what decides remake vs reboot. Only the story does. And a good 85% of the game is a proper Remake.

Spoiler: show
But if you add an entity that has prior knowledge of what has happened in the original, pieces from the original are thrown in your face at every attempt, actively interferes when things deviate, and finally the game makes you destroy said entity to "open up the future", well, that's a reboot.


That said, IMO everything unrelated to those whispers, aka a good 85% of the game is worth a solid 8.5~9. Gameplay is good, plot expansion is good, visuals are stunning, character interactions are good and faithful, plot changes are actually good. I'm thinking of the entire wall market quest here. It's ok, that's the kind of change i expect from a Remake. This game is good and enjoyable.

Spoiler: show
The reboot part is complete shit though. I could've been interested in a "what if" alternate version of FF7, but the way they handled it, with 3 nonsense useless boss fights in a row where enemies are just HP sponges, 3 IQ lines like "he's the bad guy" "yeah!", "destiny" repeated a hundred times... how can that be considered good storytelling by anyone's standard? The quality drop in the narration is huge.

Also if i had any interest in a "what if" it's now gone. How can i trust them if that's what they come up with when left to their own devices?


That said, the way they used those whisperes makes the overall vote drop to 7.5~8.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-17 01:26:39 by Caledor »

gjoerulv

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #181 on: 2020-04-17 11:42:50 »
.

Fast reply as I don't have time now.

Not pissed, but disappointed (and ammused at the "whisperers" stuff,  lmao, what a mess).

FF7R is a blatant marked-research game with some crazy, over the top kingdom hearts crap thrown in.

Added/changed/retconned story: There are good things here, but mostly main-stream cringe. Would work great in a cartoon with a returning villain each episode. Like TMNT or something.

Graphics, music and overall technical presentation is good.

Music is all good afaict.

The gameplay is not my cup of tea, so I'm not the right person to judge. I tire of these kinds of games very easily. I'm still baffled that not more people are disappointed that this "remake" is another genre then what it's based on.

The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #182 on: 2020-04-17 14:41:35 »
Quote
Did they promise a 1:1 remake, though? I know I personally didn't expect one, from the first trailer it was pretty apparent that they will take many liberties in terms of the story and combat, so that's what I was expecting from them for last couple of years.

Combat yes. When was it ever "apparent" in the slightest that they would take "many liberties in terms of the story"? As in the main story arc? They may do that and may have hinted it on unnecessary things like Tseng not appearing with a helicopter to show the captured Aerith but it being shown on a screen, ok, fine.

But letting characters survive that die, let Shinra blow up their reactors which are their income along with probably hundreds of security robots, hard- and software in there (which is again far different from blowing up sector 7 where there is nothing but junk that doesnt even belong to Shinra (and in addition they knew the Avanalanche hideout was somewhere in sector 7 at that time which makes blowing it up perfectly logical)), give everybody DBZ matrix abilities like flying, telekinesis (and oh don't forget Cloud slicing the Shinra main building in half with his freaking sword), implement time travel and Watchers of fate implying that all that happened in the original was fate anyway and at no point where you in the slightest danger because everything had to be like that....is just utter crap. It shows that the current devs either have never paid attention to the originals story at any point in time or not even played it or just don't care because this new stuff sells.

Quote
FF7R is a blatant marked-research game with some crazy, over the top kingdom hearts crap thrown in.

Sums it up pretty perfectly.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-17 14:43:11 by The Black-caped Man »

Izban

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #183 on: 2020-04-18 07:28:31 »
40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

That being said there are plenty things I have issue with like the lack of player character ai adjustment, the weapon upgrades having little to no drawbacks for building them poorly, some optimisation issues on older hardware.

Story wise it's close enough to original that if you exclude the last 2hrs and a couple of 15min blocks it's the same story just fleshed out a bit, the more I play the more I have fewer issues with the watchmen/whispers, the more I think about it they are there to allow for amazing DLC that doesn't effect main story continuity

-Ori

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #184 on: 2020-04-18 16:09:59 »
40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

That being said there are plenty things I have issue with like the lack of player character ai adjustment, the weapon upgrades having little to no drawbacks for building them poorly, some optimisation issues on older hardware.

Story wise it's close enough to original that if you exclude the last 2hrs and a couple of 15min blocks it's the same story just fleshed out a bit, the more I play the more I have fewer issues with the watchmen/whispers, the more I think about it they are there to allow for amazing DLC that doesn't effect main story continuity

they already split into 3 parts to make it 3x more expensive than the original, if they release paid dlc for each one, the whole game will cost more than the ps4 it is played on... ridiculous

i'm waiting for a price drop

unab0mb

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #185 on: 2020-04-18 18:24:04 »
they already split into 3 parts to make it 3x more expensive

Genuinely curious where that information is coming from? I don't recall seeing anything from SE that says how many parts it will be, but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this? Would be good to know how many of these we'll be buying (or not).

-Ori

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #186 on: 2020-04-18 18:30:29 »
Genuinely curious where that information is coming from? I don't recall seeing anything from SE that says how many parts it will be, but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this? Would be good to know how many of these we'll be buying (or not).

its not official, its just assumed to be 3 just because its obviously going to be more than 2, and there will be outrage if they do 4 or more

cbudd

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #187 on: 2020-04-18 19:11:52 »
YES. I don't know why they picked a random YouTuber to do professional voice acting for what would turn out (despite anyone's personal feelings) to be an extremely popular game, and for such an iconic character at that. Something about her...just doesn't bring in the high quality "feels" I expected. Barret? On point.

I do want to point out that this is a little disingenuous.  She is still a professional actress, even though she does do a lot of Youtube stuff as well.  I wouldn't say that she is totally "random."

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4628145/


cbudd

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #188 on: 2020-04-18 19:16:31 »
I don't really see the problem with the game being broken up into multiple pieces, as long as each piece is compelling and makes sense. 

What is wrong with having two FFVII games?  Or Three?  Or ten?  As long as each game is individually satisfying and you are getting your money's worth, I just don't see a problem.  The original one didn't cease to exist with the release of the remake.  In fact, I would not be surprised to see some resurgence of interest for the original with the remake having now been released.  Evidenced by the fact that I just downloaded Reunion R6 for a fresh run :)

sackyachouchie

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #189 on: 2020-04-18 20:34:05 »
FF7 is my all-time favorite game. I play the game through basically annually, so not as hardcore as some people around here, but my love for the game is great. I have played Dirge of Cerberus and watched Advent Children, and was disappointed by both. Over time, I have grown to hate all FF7 compilation material. I have a special dislike for the Kingdom Hearts appearances of Cloud, which I blame for the source of "emo Cloud", where he is mopey and edgy, which is a complete departure from the original.

You guys remember Sephiroth?

With my FF7 background out of the way, I went into FF7 remake with low expectations. I expected the game to follow the story beats of the original, but with a few new additions here and there. I knew it was likely going to be worse than the original, but as long as they didn't F up a few key moments, I would be fine.

Key moments from Midgar to not F up:

  • WallMarket Sequence
    Really cements the lawlessness and shadiness of the lower-plate life. Everything needed to be dingy, dank, repugnant, slimy, etc.

    Wallmarket music is replaced with carnival music that sounds more fitting for the gold saucer. Nothing is dingy or slimy at all, everything is very glam and fabulous. I consider this the first major f up.

  • Death of avalanche members and sector 7 plate dropping
    The death of all the avalanche members are not only heartbreaking, but also establish Shinra as a super power that Cloud and crew cannot take down with some losses along the way.

    Since none of the characters die in the end and Wedge doesn't even die to begin with, I consider this the first major f up.

  • Shinra HQ massacre by Sephiroth
    Establishes not only that Sephiroth is evil, but an unstoppable force that utterly destroyed the world's super power when Cloud and crew could not. It was an awesome and horrifying mystery so be let out of the prison cell only to see everyone had been slaughtered. One of my favorite moments in the whole game, let alone the Midgar section. This is completely cut from the game so I consider it the third, final, and most egregious f up.

You guys like Sephiroth, don't you?

Gameplay: Playing through the game was not bad, actually. The combat was worse than turn-based in my opinion, but good enough I still enjoyed it. The biggest fatal flaw, IMO, is the boss fights. As good of a spectacle as they are, the pacing is severely hampered by the in-combat cutscenes. Each boss has around 3-4 cutscenes that interrupt the flow of battle. Even worse, they put a hard cap on damage (you cannot drive a boss's health down past the 75% in a single attack, the game makes the cutscene play out first). Trying to get a boss's stagger meter up? Better do it before the arbitrary in-battle cutscene that resets it. Manage to get that stagger? Don't waste a big attack on it or you'll reach the health cap and waste it. You naturally want to save a limit break for when a boss staggers for massive damage, but the game goes out of its way to make sure that rarely happens or is borderline useless when you manage to pull it off.

Sephiroth is pretty cool.

New minor story additions: the new additions to the story were pretty good leading up to the end of the game. Visiting Jessie's family's house was nice, and would have made the Avalance group dying off all the more impactful.

Minigames: were fun and done pretty well, IMO.
Why do I keep mentioning Sephiroth?

Sidequests: complete garbage. Fetch quests and monster-slaying quests with no imagination, thought, or care put into them. Complete filler garbage.

Voice acting: for the main cast was really well done except Zack and Aerith, whose respective voices felt amateurish and out of place. Voice acting for NPCs and side characters ranged from mediocre to complete trash.

Well you like when I bring up Sephiroth, don't you?

Dialogue and writing: dialogue between main party members was actually pretty good and faithful to the original characters leading up to Shinra HQ. Writing was generally good because it followed the beats of the original story. That is until the end. One big complaint though, Sephiroth is shoved in your face and shows up all the time with no reason or justification, destroying any interest or mystique the original set up for him. Square Enix knows you love him, they don't know why though. But here is again! You like it don't you? You filthy little fanboy...

Ending of the game: Nomura unleashed. Double-dose injection of Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children out of left field into the end. Completely unjustified "EPIC!!!" set pieces and unimaginative plot twists. Alternate timelines, retconning every meaningful death, obliterating all storytelling techniques, etc. Watch any video analysis from the youtube channel Resonant Arc (I recommend the following: https://youtu.be/YDF5GorOauY and https://youtu.be/B7t0E-OsN3I and https://youtu.be/A9JZrZ7VROs ) and watch in amazement and disbelief that all story-telling magic of the original is disregarded in the remake. All setups and payoffs are cut, and Nomura-isms are inserted.

In summary:

If you have no experience in the FF franchise and have yet to play any FF games, this game is a mediocre action and adventure that is as likely to make you a fan as it is to validate your current skepticism of Japanese-styled RPGs. 7/10

If you like the FF13 franchise and all the time-travel/alternate timeline bullshit, and you internally orgasm with every Kingdom Hearts plot twist and big heartless baddy, you will probably love this game. If you every wanted to play the Sephiroth fight scene from Advent Children, this game randomly has that too. Plus a copy of the fight scene from the end of the original. In space! 10/10

If, however, you are only a fan of the original because of the expert way it told its story, and the methods it used to set up characters and plot twists with payoffs that borderlined on magic, then stay away from this game. It is not a remake, it should have been labeled FF7 Nomura's Final Mix 432/83 Days in a Week 1.5 Edition. 5/10






-Ric-

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #190 on: 2020-04-18 22:51:48 »
but everyone keeps repeating that it will be in 3 parts. Is there something official from SE where they've said this?

There is no "official" word but 3 is a pretty fair guess.

Also, 60$ for a piece of entertainment that keeps you busy anywhere from 50 to 80 hours is pretty fair. I've paid more than that for 3h concerts that ended up being far less entertaining.

Besides there are discounts, price drops and the game will have resale value. If money is an issue, you could absolutely get most of it back.

mav

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #191 on: 2020-04-18 23:21:35 »
I prefer a game that has quality - the original game is leaps and bounds ahead of this ... thing.  We shouldn't accept mediocrity at $60 a part.

How you can pass judgements saying that it's 'mediocre' without even playing it is still a bit beyond me.

This game has quality. Playing it was a great emotional roller-coaster for me. I laughed, I cried, I was excited, confused, sad and then happy. Easily worth $80 I spent on it. I'm almost 50 hours in and I'm still having loads of fun with it. If next parts are anywhere as close as good as this one, I will buy them without a blink in the eye.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-18 23:24:27 by mav »

Izban

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #192 on: 2020-04-18 23:51:48 »
People running through it on easy are finishing it in 25hrs, there is a YouTube rip of the story content that clocks at 15hrs.

For every $10aud I spend I want a minimum of 1hr use or 1 required use(tools) on easy you get 10hrs gameplay and 15hrs of cinematic either way you look at it I've got my money's worth because I've enjoyed every minute and at 40hrs unfinished on normal which is around 15more hours then I got out of ff15 and about on par with my average ff7 playthrough, the whispers are growing on me as I previously stated

People are suggesting 3 games because midgar is about 1/3 of the text in game from memory

destroyedweapon

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #193 on: 2020-04-19 00:26:06 »
Story and gameplay aside, the game really shows the potential of Unreal Engine 4, and is a free open engine. I wonder what is the modding potential of this game if it comes out for PC when is complete, I guess 5 more years? being an open engine helps a lot with this. Would SE stop me with a cease and desist if I made a ff7classic mod on top of this? I would mod the first mission for fun/study and love for this game, with dialogs in text and all that.

Mendelevium

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #194 on: 2020-04-19 00:34:20 »
I replayed the original in December. Midgar was about 1/10 of the time experience. Never really thought about how much text it took up compared to the original. My playthrough was a fairly standard 40 hour affair with minimal grinding.

After having a lot of time to digest the ending, and the overall gameplay experience that I viewed... I don't hate it in theory.

Spoiler: show
I dislike anything that adds timeline bullshit to something that didn't need it.


To me that is a lazy plot device unless done in a proper and compelling way. This was.... A lot of Nomuraisms. I am not a big fan of Kingdoms Heart, and the ending had those storytelling tropes written all over it. I could find a "what-if" and an alternate "retelling" quite compelling if it was done by a writer and director I trusted. Nomura is neither of those things. Worst of all to me is now  he has essentially lifted up the chains of the original's plot and severed them. I am a bit apprehensive of where the next parts are going with that in mind. He has free reign to turn this into another mess like the what is it... ten Kingdom Hearts games? And I dont think the the enigmatic spectres of fate will ever stop bugging me.

The ending and spectres aside, I don't have too many gripes with the minor changes made to the plot. In fact that's how I would want a remake to be done tastefully. Characters get a lot of expansion, and the NPC hubs like the sector 7 slums and especially Wallmarket look amazing (if not quite as charming as the handdrawn backgrounds of the original, but certainly far more gritty). The place looked legitimately lived in. A lot of work, effort, and polish went into the visual presentation of this game. The graphics in Square games have never really been a sticking point for me (at least not in the past 5 to 10 years).

My main gripe is the zones seem too big in some places. The sewers in particular. I can ignore shitty side quests, I expected those - but the game spends a lot of mandatory time in these expanded zones that add little to the narrative. Maybe it is more fun to play through, but even the friend I was watching stream it said some of it was needless and exhausting and he just wanted to get to the next story beat. The original game had stellar pacing, and I am sad to see that is something that is lost.

Overall I am not too terribly torn up that they are splitting it into parts - I just want each part to be compelling and content rich. Nomura has a penchant for padding, buildup, minigames, and fairly lack luster and long winded payoffs with Kingdom Hearts in mind. So as I said before, I am tremendously apprehensive where the next parts would even go. Nomura isn't really known for respecting a player's time or intelligence.

As it stands from a viewer's perspective the first part of this remake looks like the first 90% of the game would be enjoyable for me - especially reliving that childhood nostalgia but expanded upon and deepend in parts. It's the ending and needlessly large sub-areas that I can't really agree with. I'd say from just viewing my friend stream it the game.... The game would be a 7 out of 10 for me up to Jenova in the Shinra building. Everything to do with Jenova and after is a much lower score from my own metric. So that first 90% the game while not the best score still looks perfectly playable to me and quite good. I just can't really get behind the ending and call it respectful or tasteful to the original

Spoiler: show
I feel like Nomura could have done this what-if scneario without involving a time traveling Sephiroth or as my friend puts it "anime-bullshit" that cheapens the narrative buildup to that point.


I just want them to make a decent FF16, which I don't think will ever happen for me. I kind of want a break from gaming remakes at the moment.

So for me it's really mixed! To those of you who liked it, I am really happy for you! Legitimately. I kind of wish I could be in your camp.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-19 00:40:36 by Mendelevium »

Caledor

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #195 on: 2020-04-19 01:45:24 »
Midgar is exactly 24% of the original game text.

Izban

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #196 on: 2020-04-19 02:50:31 »
How much of the total game text is side-quest related out of curiosity

gjoerulv

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #197 on: 2020-04-19 03:37:07 »
40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

The fact that they changed it into an action game is alone "pandering to the masses".
The storytelling is, for the most part, also easy on the masses. One could go in depth here, but let's just say, it's nothing wrong enjoying a main-stream story like this. The original also had a lot of "pandering to the masses" going on. No need to pretend it didn't.
Design choice, story beats, gameplay, is all there mainly due to marked research. Most, if not all, AAA companies does this. It's no big secret. The only thing I think is not heavily influenced by is all this kingdom hearts stuff. But kingdom hearts is a commercial success so... "Hey, Nomura those KH stuff you made were pretty successful, can you put some of that stuff in?"

There are risks involved though. I would say the most risky move SE has done here is splitting it up into multiple games. It can backfire hard. Depending on sales they may decide to end it early and pretend that it was the plan all along. To be honest, I don't think they have a complete story ready yet. But at least they haven't promised X amount of games like Disney promised ep 7-9, which I don't think need to explained how hard failed as a story.

If they continue to being somewhat "faithful" to the original I'm guessing the next games will do good overall. But if they decide to go all in KH crazy... welp, not easy to say what'll happen. SE will probably look at feedback to decide how much to tone down the KH stuff in the naxt game.

Izban

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #198 on: 2020-04-19 08:08:47 »
I hardly think making it an active rpg is base on market research.... As the majority of action RPGs are fairly niche groups that enjoy them, as are tactical action games so why would they put the effort into creating a new subgenre

Mendelevium

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #199 on: 2020-04-19 08:45:22 »
I kind of get the impression Square thinks turned based RPGs are out. That part of it is missguided to me, because just look at how successful things like the Persona series is? I think it is entirely Square wanting to "modernize". Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with them making it an action rpg in theory.

It's just the game Nomura wanted to make first as a consultant and now as a creative director after the firing of CyberConnect2. Though none of that has enough documentation to make real claims about. It's just what's been working for him until now, why change? I think its the mentality itself that is missguided. However, they are ultimately going to make the games they want to play - as a business and as creative professionals. As long as the game is fun, has content that is mostly satisfying, and I all around like I will be okay.

Sadly, the ending of this particular game fell really short for me. It is the one thing I couldn't overlook or forgive to have an all around "okay fun experience." Endings are paramount, and different people are going to take it differently. It didn't land with me, but given how popular Kingdom Hearts is it will probably land well with some people - especially those who never played the original.