Author Topic: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!  (Read 56563 times)

TheSlumDrunk

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #25 on: 2020-04-06 15:27:30 »
Yup and this is why the Final Fantasy franchise has been ruined since FFX. It’s just not even worth talking about anymore I give up on this company and all it’s new games. Square will continue to make horrible games and these idiots who support them will continue to do so and defend them to the end so it just is what it is. The true fans can only finally throw in the towel and let this company die off with time. We always have our SquareSoft masterpieces to enjoy the new age of “fans” will never understand that.

LeonhartGR

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #26 on: 2020-04-06 16:45:36 »
Spoiler: show
https://i.4cdn.org/v/1586151057035.webm
Someone watched too much of the "The Flash" series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TYsbK0973U

What the f*uck exactly is going on, is this Jenova reassembling herself or time is going backwards and then throwing a meteor... duh! I was hoping at least to watch Zack fighting all those troops sniff  :'( :'(
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 16:48:45 by LeonhartGR »

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #27 on: 2020-04-06 19:02:56 »
Also, anyone else noticed how the big gaming reviews are
Spoiler: show
massively understating these changes
?  Once again, slapping 8,9,10 on it and glossing over it with their verbose waffle.  Every time.  Can't expect any of them to be truthful.  The verdict will come from the end user as always - gonna be fun.  I'm already seeing huge backlash.


Spoiler: show
I think the biggest issue with changing the story, is Nomura isn't a good writer at all. I would go as far as to say this is probably a case of someone's ego getting in the way. Nomura probably looked at the story of FFVII and thought "You know what? I can do better." Which is insane and stupid for two reasons:

1. FFVII's story is great as is and at most would only need certain elements fleshed out more to deliver a better experience.
2. Fans have been asking for almost two decades for a remake of the original game, just with modern technology. Then after years of teasing, blue balling, and flip flopping on whether or not they'd remake it, they finally decide to do it, with thunderous applause.

So to drastically change the story is just an insane move, and to be frank, in bad taste imo. I wonder how many people involved in making this game thought this was a bad idea, but couldn't do or say anything. But more to the point, IF Nomura had a track record of being a well respected and talented writer, I think a lot of people disappointed that this isn't a true remake, would be willing to give it a chance and see where it goes. But Nomura isn't a good writer. He's the kind of writer who just does whatever comes to his mind, without thinking about how coherent and logical the overall narrative would be as a result of it.

What we're probably going to get from this whole thing, is a great roleplaying game, but an absolutely butchered retelling of FFVII's story. And unfortunately, as fun as FFVII was to play, it was the story and characters that made people fall in love with it.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 19:12:06 by DLPB »

MysticLord

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #28 on: 2020-04-06 20:34:29 »
Spoiler: show
https://i.4cdn.org/v/1586151057035.webm

What the f*uck exactly is going on, is this Jenova reassembling herself or time is going backwards and then throwing a meteor... duh! I was hoping at least to watch Zack fighting all those troops sniff  :'( :'(


Theme for that video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

-Ric-

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #29 on: 2020-04-06 20:56:20 »


To be fair, he was pretty chill in the original when the party meets him in the Shinra HQ, then when the party randomly runs into him in Costa Del Sol, when he first witnessed that WEAPON were real and even when he was about to blow Midgar (and himself up) with the cannon.
He wasn't really "afraid" of anything, quite the opposite so... THAT one reaction is not really out of character for Hojo.

LeonhartGR

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #30 on: 2020-04-06 20:57:16 »
Spoiler: show
Maybe they are just thinking of creating a cross over with the DC Universe or a future DC/Marvel crossover game like they did with Kingdom Hearts and Disney. I know it sounds stupid but as I can judge by this video those ghosts remind me so much of The Flash timeforce ghosts https://youtu.be/WG-ne__nTpo?t=112
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 21:00:36 by LeonhartGR »

LeonhartGR

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #31 on: 2020-04-06 21:13:12 »
Spoiler: show
Even if I've not completely finished the original game, I've gone deep into the research of FFVII's storyline and watched most of the gameplay and walkthroughs of all different FFVII versions like DOC, Crisis Core, AC movie throughout all those years before the remake. I've never noticed any reference in any time ghosts in the original storyline, even in the rest of the versions that came out and by watching this for a first time my immediate reaction was jaw-dropping and giggling which means that it's rejected by my subconsciousness  and looks, if nothing else, ridiculous.

I would be amazed though if there was a nice directed cutscene with Zack fighting all the troops and dropping down like a real hero or a realistic scenario of Cloud wondering around the city after the bombing mission instead of getting pointless Sephiroth visions with no connection to each other and with meaningless hints that Sephiroth is about to return for restoring his former bad actions from the Crisis Core story. Which also makes you wonder in which way are they going to connect all this with the AC story where Sephiroth is merely evil!
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 21:23:16 by LeonhartGR »

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #32 on: 2020-04-06 21:26:59 »
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D  Hahahaha  tell me it's a late April fools?  Sounds like another bad Terminator movie.

If this is true then i won't really like the game that much. I disliked most of the compilations for not looking or being like the original.

A remake should be true to the original, not to the compilations.

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #33 on: 2020-04-06 21:32:43 »
Alright, so this game is not at all what was expected after reading some of the early leaks, and the marketing has been completely deceptive. Massive spoilers, of course.
Spoiler: show
So, the "remake" is essentially a sequel to the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII that involves a future Sephiroth traveling back in time to undo what lead to his demise in the original game, including undoing Zack's death in the outskirts of Midgar.  The "ghosts" seen in the trailers are there to prevent the original timeline from being disrupted, and any action Cloud takes that influences a divergence in the timeline, like almost dealing a fatal blow to Reno in the Sector 5 Church, is physically prevented. They're present because Sephiroth has already arrived in the timeline at that point, and the game ends with Sephiroth tricking Cloud and co into killing these Watchmen and severing the chains of fate, leading to an unknown future, and in turn entirely different sequels post-Midgar.

In my opinion, this is better than just unfaithfully remaking the game. It's a sequel that requires full knowledge of the original game and extended universe. It doesn't serve to "replace" anything for a younger audience after all.


If this is true then they've been totally inspired by the DragonBall Z Xenoverse games.

I really dislike that type of format. Instead they should just make the game the original timeline.. I don't think the second or third games will succeed if they take this route. Frankly that's not a remake of the story everyone wanted to see in modern graphics.

The first part is good or even great as far as i can tell, but if they go down this route it will not be a good thing.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 21:34:19 by mr_nygren »

TheSlumDrunk

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #34 on: 2020-04-06 22:01:10 »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0nHCm6nuw&t=607s

This review of the “Remake” is spot on with everything that is presented. Make sure to support this guy and share your thoughts on the video. I wonder if the fan base all comes together to let Square know that this is NOT what we as fans wanted if they will cave and take all this stupid stuff out via a update or something and just go back to the original story? I think it’s a strong possibility honestly if the backlash is great enough.

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #35 on: 2020-04-06 22:04:51 »
Let me explain what i've seen in reviews (spoilerfree) and in trailers that i didn't like and why:
Spoiler: show

1. Sephiroth showing up in the first scene with Aerith as a clear hint at what's to come. Let's just say that i don't like when they hint at later events. This is true for more scenes than the scene with Aerith- It's a mistake in my honest opinion to spoil future events in later titles by having Sephiroth be present in scenes where he wasn't originally. Most people know of Aerith's fate but there are still the new players who might not know about it- that's why that scene is spoiling things for the new audience if they didn't know. That ruins one of the most impactful moments.

And just to be clear this goes for any other story-element hinted at as well. Like the clip above with Hojo telling Cloud something about his past. That shouldn't be revealed until much later and i didn't like how it's spoiled early because SE thinks everyone knows about it already. They're ruining the original surprises by going ahead of themselves thinking new players know everything. I don't think they do. And it's unfortunate if they wanted the same surprises that we got back in 1997.

2. Those things connected to time doesn't have a place in the game. That's just screaming they're there to mess up the original timeline. And no-one asked for the original timeline or story to be messed up obviously. It's all fine to enhance the original story, add more scenes like for example the scene in the second trailer where you see a glimpse of Tseng when he kidnaps Aerith in exchange for Marlene - that's the type of additional story everyone would like to see more of. An event that happened in the original but that were never shown. I can only praise Square Enix for adding scenes like that to enhance the original story. - But to have time watchers that disrupts the story is to take away from the original. They just weren't needed at all.

Final Fantasy VII Remake will never stand a chance against FF7 Original if they mess up the original timeline. Then it will go from a true remake to a compilation sequel fan-service that will quickly be forgotten as a failed attempt to remake a classic.

Also, as a final point - FF7R can only challenge FF7 whenever it's a full story. When all the three parts are finished and released they could challenge the original. But if they've messed up the timeline it won't stand a chance.


On a final note i didn't enjoy how you could only give the flower to one character now. I see no problem with the second option of the original.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-06 22:31:20 by EQ2Alyza »

Mabinog

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #36 on: 2020-04-07 00:35:08 »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0nHCm6nuw&t=607s

This review of the “Remake” is spot on with everything that is presented. Make sure to support this guy and share your thoughts on the video. I wonder if the fan base all comes together to let Square know that this is NOT what we as fans wanted if they will cave and take all this stupid stuff out via a update or something and just go back to the original story? I think it’s a strong possibility honestly if the backlash is great enough.

Given what happened with Final Fantasy XV's story, an update isn't totally out of the realm of possibility. It's probably not gonna happen though. The best you could hope for is future Remake installments edging back towards the original story,

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #37 on: 2020-04-07 00:38:51 »
One thing i think is really bad is Sephiroth's hair in the Remake. He used to be the best looking character, heck even the chibi model had better hairstyle - he should have two bits pointing out. Now he looks like a girl which is lame.



Back in high school i literally couldn't think of a more bad-ass character in a videogame. Most of it was due to the hairstyle seen in the picture above.

In the Remake he has a woman's hairstyle. The coolness is gone.. It's like realistic isn't always good.

His clothes are spot-on but not his hair.

« Last Edit: 2020-04-07 00:46:49 by mr_nygren »

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #38 on: 2020-04-07 01:13:22 »
His face is also wrong.

What's wrong with your faaaaaaace!

Yes, and his face is the same as in Advent Children i believe.

I were never positive to his looks in any of the compilation games.. Either it was the hairstyle, or it was the clothes.

His face is way more "manly" in the old anime art. They should have kept it manly.

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #39 on: 2020-04-07 01:15:15 »
i actually hate the Cloud model as well, looks more like Tidus than Cloud IMO

but the sephiroth one is even worse, i feel like i could bitchslap that dude to the ground, and i'm supposed to believe he can blow up a planet?

mr_nygren

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #40 on: 2020-04-07 01:31:00 »
i actually hate the Cloud model as well, looks more like Tidus than Cloud IMO

but the sephiroth one is even worse, i feel like i could bitchslap that dude to the ground, and i'm supposed to believe he can blow up a planet?


Exactly, the old Sephiroth had this coolness in his looks that made you kind of respect him. And at a certain age you even wanted to be him. But the new real-life version is too feminine in his looks and won't give the same impression because of it. I would have removed his lips and made them almost non-existent. Then fixed the hairstyle and made the face slightly more muscular. The old FMV had a more manly face as well.

About Cloud Strife i were pleased to see that his old pants were back, after years of those ugly oridinary pants.. But his hairstyle could have been way more spikey.

The difference between Cloud and Sephiroth is that Sephiroth made the game after the Midgar-section- while Cloud i guess wasn't that important for his looks. I can live with the current Cloud, but Sephiroth who is all about being this elite soldier that no-one can defeat, should not be feminine.

BahamutSIN

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Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #41 on: 2020-04-07 02:55:07 »
Sephiroth who is all about being this elite soldier that no-one can defeat, should not be feminine.

Remake Sephiroth is probably based on how he looked like in crisis core and ac. He's always had a very graceful/noble appearance and he actually looks decent in the remake.

Japan has a tendency to making feminine male anime villains. Yet, he's not even that feminine except for a bit of eyeliner and mascara. He's very tall, got a deep voice, his manspreading stance with legs wide apart makes him look very macho and territorial, and his personality is as stoic, dominant and aggressive as ever.

This perception that feminine appearance = weakness is a boring, outdated trope.

The Black-caped Man

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #42 on: 2020-04-07 17:00:58 »
Quote
Back in high school i literally couldn't think of a more bad-ass character in a videogame. Most of it was due to the hairstyle seen in the picture above.

In the Remake he has a woman's hairstyle. The coolness is gone.. It's like realistic isn't always good.

This is EXACTLY smth that a freaking graphics designer and character artist like Nomura just doesn't get: The old FFs characters were partly so iconic because they were FANTASY characters and not real ppl. They looked half like anime characters at best and even the ones of the Super Nintendo games looked bad ass because you were not given every single detail and pixel of a man/woman: You were given some sort of a mantle(sprites on the SNES and polygon models on the PS) that had little detail to it and yes that was the best one could produce in those days, however a completely forgotten positive side effect of those games was that by that everybody playing this game could INTERPRET this characters details in his own mind and thus easier project himself into a character, a world and live it through in ones mind and it became his own personal fantasy. And that was the magic of Final Fantasy.
That doesn't mean that bad graphics is good and newer suck always or anything but at least in a Final Fantasy game I expect some little space for my own fantasy, some space for my interpretation of things and not another mans 4k HD vision of every pixel forced into my head.
The best and closest approximation of FF7 characters (that I am sure everybody would have liked btw) is the artwork of the manuals and the models of the FMV sequences. Those are the characters as we got to know them and they will be like that forever. With todays methods you can make them look pretty much exactly like that in a smooth way and everybody would be happy....except for Mr. Nomura

gjoerulv

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #43 on: 2020-04-07 18:51:25 »
Spoiler: show

Hmmm, I was just thinking....
*Commencing useless postulations*
It seems they expand on the FF7 "expanded universe" (EU) here. I'm guessing there will be retconning (haven't there already?).
That means EU is not part of the original game, and that EU + FF7R is a complete different story than the original.

Why?

Because, if it's true that Sephiroth is traveling in time (I'm not convinced yet, perhaps I'm in disbelief) back to the "original story", and every character acts different from what they did in the original, then isn't it logical to assume that what we see is not the original story? And that all EU stuff added to FF7R makes the EU relative to FF7R's story and not the original's?

Still baffled about that this may be a sequel to f*****n AC, lmao. If SE actually intend that to be true my head will collapse into a black hole.

epsilon

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #44 on: 2020-04-07 22:24:34 »
This is not my battle as I have no intention to buy the game, but one obvious weakness of making the game more realistic is that character acting stands out much more, and from the what I have seen of the trailers it can be atrocious: Barret's histrionics are so damned awful... I will say though that, contrary to DPLB, I do find Aerith very beautiful and not slutish in any way, shape or form.

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #45 on: 2020-04-07 23:38:53 »
This is not my battle as I have no intention to buy the game, but one obvious weakness of making the game more realistic is that character acting stands out much more, and from the what I have seen of the trailers it can be atrocious: Barret's histrionics are so damned awful...

very true, even though i liked FFX, it made almost mandatory expectations of voice acting in every RPG thereafter and the classic turn-based RPG died


I will say though that, contrary to DPLB, I do find Aerith very beautiful and not slutish in any way, shape or form.

i actually agree with him on that one, her cheeks should have been more rounded to give her that innocent look that she had in FF7

she's hot though, it was evident in FFX-2 (SE's first game IIRC) that was the new direction, i'm kinda surprised they didnt just say fuck it with aeris and put short shorts on her like they did with Yuna

Caledor

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #46 on: 2020-04-08 00:39:26 »
i'm kinda surprised they didnt just say fuck it with aeris and put short shorts on her like they did with Yuna

they wanted to, but the watchmen of fate forced her into a skirt

Devina

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #47 on: 2020-04-08 08:20:58 »
Quote
Point about Aerith is she isn't meant to be hot - she's meant to be cute, innocent, pure.  That's whole point of that love triangle - Tifa and Aerith are opposites.  Her longer dress was deliberately to contrast with Tifa's for example (developer interview from '90s).

I heard someone mentioning that their clothing is meant to be the opposite, in order to make the player surprised by their true personalities.

Aerith wears pink, a dress, does her hair in braids, etc. Someone could be led to believe she is innocent and introverted by her appearance. However, she is quite extroverted personality-wise. She is a young woman who knows the slums. When you first see her after the explosion, she's calm when everyone else is running around panicking (sure, she gets knocked down, but she immediately stands up by herself and brushes herself off instead of having Cloud give her a hand). She catches Cloud by surprise when he sneaks out of her house and she decides to choose the sexiest dress in the clothing store, a striking red dress showing off a bit of her cleavage, and she also does her hair and has earrings. She sees through Cloud's bullshit "macho" exterior, having experienced Zack, and tries to see him for who he really is. Aerith tries to dismantle Cloud's persona, asking him questions that challenge his core, while Tifa plays along with it and hides several truths. That's sort of the thing, Aerith's already been toughened up by her relationship with Zack and the grief she's experienced after, so I don't really get it when people say she's meant to be "innocent". She's also a flower peddler who tries to sell flowers in downtown, and if you've ever been in retail, then you'd know you have to grow a thick skin to deal with people. Another example is when they're threatening Corneo, Aerith says "I'll rip it off" before Tifa's threat. Aerith is very playful and a bit of a fun-loving troll.



Tifa wears no distinctive feminine colors and shows a lot of skin, especially her midriff. One would assume she's extroverted, but Tifa is actually very shy and introverted, and has difficulty asserting her true feelings openly. For example, during the Gold Saucer date, Tifa says "Okay, I'm just going to say it... Aerith probably be able to just come out and say it... Cloud... I..." but then becomes silent and is unable to assert her true feelings (her love) for Cloud. It's pretty clear that Tifa is jealous of Cloud's attention to Aerith and feels like a second banana.

I think a lot of players judge Aerith and Tifa by their appearances and accidentally switch their personalities. Aerith is cute, like you said, but once you analyze their personalities, I think it's pretty evident Aerith isn't supposed actually "pure and innocent" like some fragile flower. Imo, it gives them a lot of depth.

epsilon

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #48 on: 2020-04-08 10:35:18 »
Just as a point of clarification and a parting shot, because as I said this is not a fight I want to have: I did not use the word "hot", Orichalcon did; I used the word "beautiful". Every man has had the experience of finding a woman beautiful without having his lust aroused (now, there's a double entendre for you), especially if you are past a certain age, are weary and jaded, to the point where virtue and exhaustion are indistinguishable. Neither do I disagree with DPLB's characterization of the love triangle, which I do not, I just disagreed with his assessment of Aerith (the "tart" part) in the remake -- from the little I have seen of the trailers, that is.

And Barret's histrionics are really awful (in one of the review's someone said a "bad impression of Mr. T". Ah!) And Cloud does look like a dweeb. And I do not like action RPG's. And the parallel universe storylines with overseers, quite apart from the fidelity to the original story, is a crap plot device inserted to give the authors leeway to retcon willy-nilly, with no rhyme or reason. And I have better things to do anyway.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-08 10:37:51 by epsilon »

Devina

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Re: [SPOILERS] FF7 remake discussion time!
« Reply #49 on: 2020-04-08 10:48:42 »
Tifa and Aerith are contrasts, I'm not debating you there, I agree with that.

I was just explaining that the whole "Aerith is a gentle/pure/innocent/demure/girl" notion is heavily flawed in many ways. She is in some aspects, others, not so much.



Haven't played the remake yet but I have no issues with Aerith's appearance and it's always how I imagined her. I got to say tho, her voice is a bit nerdier than I imagined, but I hope it will grow on me.

I do think Aerith is beautiful in both the original and remake, altho I wish she was a bit more dirty looking, perhaps with some parts of her outfit looked a bit ragged, dirt on her jacket, etc. It would help the idea that she's a slum woman easier and think make her look a bit more sympathetic.

I have no issues with Cloud looking a bit slender or tired, because (spoilers)

Spoiler: show
He's been in a coma for years so it'd make sense he'd look a bit atrophied and malnourished.


There's already a million buff and muscular dudes in gaming.

As for the story,

Spoiler: show
I'm actually interested in the idea of FF7 being an alternate timeline, it makes the story very exciting, I think a 1:1 story adaptation would be boring, especially for people who play the original. I hope Zack and Aerith stay dead and that confusing information for newcomers is kept a bit on the minimal side. If they aren't, then that's really butchering the original story and cheapens their deaths.