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Sad Jari:
Most of this is based on the notion:


--- Code: ---The moderation here has always been very lax. Lately, with the influx of stupid people, it has become too lax. Or people have become too stupid for it, take your pick.
--- End code ---


If you disagree with this notion (I would certainly like to hear how you possibly can, considering the events), you will not get much out of it, since it's aimed at fixing that problem.

It's somewhat disorganized, but should be readable. Oh yeah, my spelling chequer is not working with DP Alpha 1, so there might be boo-boos.


Moderator/admin side of things

1) Rules must be written down, as specifically as possible. Moderators are not mind readers - unfortunately.

If they do not know what the appropriate action is, they will choose the most lenient option, just to err on the side of caution - like you would in any social situation. This erring on the side of caution is one of the reasons for the current situation; if the idiots are given free reign, they will take advantage of it.

It's lot of work trying to create as complete and foolproof set of rules as possible, but it will save you from even more work; namely fixing things after your moderators.


2) Rules must be made a whole lot more strict. While the humane "let all the flowers bloom"-approach (otherwise known as a hippy way) is all fine and dandy, it will not work with large, heterogeneous crowds. Which has been seen here.

The old system worked as long as there were only very few users, it's not working now. The time of the old system is over, do not even think about the old rules anymore; you'll have to start fresh.

Don't get overly worried about what is "fair" or humane; it's a forum, not a civil right. You do not have to make every person in the world happy, you need to make most of the people in the forums happy.


3) The yellow card is nearly useless and should be removed entirely. Reasoning; it will only work if the person is really concerned in what other people think of him. The card system itself is good, because it gives the moderators more power. And that is exactly what they'll need.


4) Multi-forum moderators, or supermods are a good idea. To certain extent. The problem is that if there are not enough of them, the workload will get too large.

The thing that admins can moderate is kinda tricky in this sense; since their names are not listed on the forums (as moderators), it can create the illusion that only the moderators are responsible for the forum. This in turn can create more stress for them, if they feel that they have to do all the work, since they'll obviously get blamed for not doing it.


5) So called Judge Dredd-moderator. Term coined by yours truly. Moderator who is the law; police, judge and jury in one person. You'll need them. Since it seems that there are more idiots and mods have less time in their hands you  must give more responsibility to the mods. Lots more.

This basically means that moderators act independently, based on the rules. They'll ban users independently. If you can get this to work, you'll get the forum you dream of (lot less work for you, that is).


6) Rules must be enforced in much more strict way. Seriously much more strict. No more yellow cards. No warnings.

a) Ban on the first offense (no, I most certainly am not kidding, I've seen it and it works).

[*]Person breaking the rules for the first time gets a one week ban. Period. This will send the message that you or your moderators are not someone to fuck with.

[*]After the week has passed and if there has been no bitching about it, they'll be unbanned.

[*]People bitching about banning of other people get a ban.[/list:u]


b) Permaban on second offense. Or for bitching about the first ban.

[*]Person breaking the rules for the second time gets banned permanently, no questions asked.

[*]Person bitching about the first ban gets a permaban. Asking for the reasons of the first ban is ok, but there must not be a hint of attitude.[/list:u]


c) IP Block ban on further offenses. Not single IP ban, they are nearly useless. Simply ban the entire block at once.

[*]Sometimes innocent people might get banned by this. Well, boo-hoo. Go get a life instead posting to forums, or go beat up the person who caused the block ban, chances are that he's living nearby anyway.[/list:u]


7) Moderators must be responsible for their forum.

[*]If there's shit going on in the forum, the moderator will be stripped of his powers. No point in pulling dead weight.
               
[*]If the moderator for some reason feels that he is not capable of performing his duties for a while (school, work, vacation, whatever), he must notify the admins. Then his name gets taken off the moderator roster, until he is capable again. This removes the effect where the moderation appears lenient, since the person whose name is up there is not around doing his job.[/list:u]


8) Moderators, especially supermods and mods for high-volume forums simply must be fluent in English. Not speaking, but they must be able to read between the lines, see hidden meanings, notice attitude and get jokes. It also helps if they write well, or at least well enough that there will be no misunderstandings because of that, but understanding written English is a must.

[*]It would be most good, if these same mods would be at least reasonable proficient at reading people's behaviour.[/list:u]


9) Registration needs to be more strict, if you want to control the idiot flood. Sure, it will prevent people just from popping in and asking things, but then again... most people seem to be rather pooping in than popping in these days.

[*]Close the registration. Seriously. Close it for three months, then open for one. Repeat year around. This forces n00bs to lurk and read first.

[*]Approve each member manually. I'm serious about this too, even though it's lot of work (that's one reason for 3 off / 1 on cycle). Or have someone approve them for you.

[*]Make them write something short when they register; what is their interest in Final Fantasies, how they found the forum, whatever - as long as they have to write it and it's longer than 10 words. If they can't produce decent text for the registration, they sure as hell can't produce decent text in forums.[/list:u]

Surprisingly I've seen only one forum that does these things... and it works so well for them.

[*]Perhaps ask even some personal details. They don't have to be public, just ask them. Sure, some people would lie, some decent people would not register because of it, but it might get rid off few idiots. It takes bit more to make a fool out of yourself, if people (even the admin) knows who you are. Do note that there might be a genuine legal issue about this; at least some countries demand few things, if you are going to keep a register of people.

[*]One option might be this; when person registers, he can't write. He must stick to reading for some time... 2-4 weeks? After that he automatically gets the rights to write. Should cut down the "This has been asked 10001 times before, but I must know it"-questions.[/list:u]


10) Karma system. This has been talked about before, but for different reason. It might help, though. But is there per-post-karma-rating mod for phpBB?


11) Titles. It needs to be very clear who is admin or mod. Make it so with their title. Use the colors and bold to make it stand out. Remove possible "Moderator" custom titles, if the person is not one anymore. Vice versa, mods and admins with custom titles still need to have the "Mod" or "Admin" visible.


For users

1) Rules must be written down, as specifically as possible. For several reasons:

[*]People are stupid. However, this can be used both ways; You can use strict set of rules that is _not_ available for users to read with Judge Dredd-moderators to increase the average IQ of the forums. Ban on first offence, let them figure out what the offences are. After 50 or so examples they'll start getting it. If not... not a great loss.

[*]These written rules can be quoted in a case of an argument. Then again, there should be no arguments about rules or moderation. It is not up to the users to decide.

[*]Some things, like distributing warez might not even need a mention. It's freaking obvious that you are not allowed to do that, it's not only illegal, but can get the forum into legal trouble. If someone is stupid enough to try that, they might deserve a permaban instantly. Sort of a Darwin Awards thing.[/list:u]

..I might have more, I have to think about it. Use them if you wish, they won't cost you a dime.

Alhexx:
Wow, I haven't seen such a constructive post from you for a long time, Jari.
It seems like there'S still a part of you which does not want to see the board end as you predict it will be...
I'm not going to make hundrets of quotes here, I'll just refer to your numbers. I'll quote only if I think it's necessary.

3)
I do not think that the yellow card is senseless. It maybe does not matter for the ones who got the warning, however this member is "brandmarked" on this forum. That means that other members, especially new ones, can see that this member has not been so innocent as he might look. So leave the warning system alive.

5)
In my opinion, banning is a thing that only an admin should decide, and we have 3 of them now here. Banning is not a 24-7 job here, we do not have to ban 10 users per day (even if some of us would like to).
If a moderator thinks that someone is making so much trouble that he should get banned, he (the mod) can talk to an admin about that.
And I think that banning (I mean the action, not the decision) is not a lot of work, so this can be done by the admins.
So our admins are our Judge-Dredd-Moderators.

6) a)
Banning for the first rule break? I think this is a bit too hard. If it was a heavy rule-break (e.g. posting warez, rude offense, bitching admins or mods, offense spamming, rassistic/ sexistic post, or any illegal action) then it's okay.
But I don't think that someone whould be banned for having a too big avatar or things like that. We have our warning system for that.

7) (Second point)
You cannot expect that someone sits 24-7 in front of this monitor and browses this forum, even not from a moderator or admin. So that's the reason why there should be a moderator crew for each forum, at least 2 per forum.

10)
Uh...This somehow reminds me of the StaSi...
This is a forum, and forums should be available to everyone after all. You cannot understand what kind of human someone is by letting him writing a few lines about himself.
There are people, who are just browsing the web, find this board, just want to register to post a quick question... and some of them even become honorable members...
Then, on the other hand, there are a lot who want to register, who would take their time to fill out that "character test" form, and after 2 weeks they start pissing other members off...
No, I don't think that is a good idea. Registration should be free for everyone.

10) I'm not sure if you're talking about that what I think about. Is this karma system that, where members can "rate" another members behaviour?
If yes, this might be a good idea.
(But it is more or less equal to the yellow-card system)

I agree to all other points more or less...


And there's one thing I have to add:
I think it would be a good idea to open a "moderator Forum", which only admins and mods are allowed to visit. This would be a good place for discussing moderative questions, coordinating work between moderators etc...

Let's see what the admins have to say to that...

 - Alhexx

Sad Jari:
I'll use quotes, since it makes the specific points I'm addressing more obvious.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---It maybe does not matter for the ones who got the warning, however this member is "brandmarked" on this forum. That means that other members, especially new ones, can see that this member has not been so innocent as he might look.
--- End quote ---

But what good comes out of this? That they can make fun of the person? That they can switch into the "daddy's little moderator"-mode, where they start to criticize what he does?

I was under the impression that the point of the warning was to prevent similar behaviour in future, not to make a circus freak out of the person.... which would be ok, if it actually would prevent the said behaviour.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---And I think that banning (I mean the action, not the decision) is not a lot of work, so this can be done by the admins.
--- End quote ---

It sure ain't, but how long does it take before your admin has the time do that? I dunno if you have noticed, but ironically all three of them are very busy.

Because while the banning does not take long, all kinds of stuff can happen while you are waiting for one of your admins to show up.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---But I don't think that someone whould be banned for having a too big avatar or things like that. We have our warning system for that.
--- End quote ---

Can you prove to me that your warning system actually works?

It's not a ban for life, one week is a nice amount of time, during which they can think about the rules.

Besides, the concept is that it is a proactive measure. Ban enough idiots - preferably make a list of banned users - and you'll see how it starts to work.

7) Well, I was referring to weeks, not hours.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---This is a forum, and forums should be available to everyone after all.
--- End quote ---

Since when? It's not democracy, it's not right to vote, it's a forum. Not a civil right, like I said.

Do you have experience of forums that limit their registration, for one reason or another? They are pretty darn nice, in general.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---You cannot understand what king of human someone is by letting him writing a few lines about himself.
--- End quote ---

But you sure can see if he's capable of producing something that even remotely resembles English language. ... Although my real point was that it takes some effort, that alone will cut down the idiots. Plus as a bonus, it will prevent the ad-bots from registering.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---There are people, who are just browsing the web, find this board, just want to register to post a quick question... and some of them even become honorable members...
--- End quote ---

Very few. Remember the active/inactive members statistics? Most of them ask a question that has been answered many times already. Rest can wait for some time. You have to think about the good of the many before good of the few.


--- Quote from: Alhexx ---Then, on the other hand, there are a lot who want to register, who would take their time to fill out that "character test" form, and after 2 weeks they start pissing other members off...
--- End quote ---

Are you basing this on personal experience, or...? The "lot", I mean. Certainly there are some, no doubt.

10) Yeah, that's karma.

Gee, and I thought that I was the only person abusing the Remake forum as a moderator forum. In other words; the idea certainly has some merit, but I'm willing to bet a sizeable sum on that forum being very quiet place.

Bunnie-Maru:
On the subject of warnings/bannings:

1st Card: 1 week suspension
2nd Card: 1 month suspension
3rd Card: Gone

I would say keep the cards and add in the suspensions. If anything, I'd consider this a psychological reminder. If I were to ever get a card, I would remember why I got it for the rest of my time here.

I like the idea of temporary suspensions, but I think it should be a three step phase, not two. 1 week to permanent banning seems a little steep, there should be some transition between the two.

Also, is there a way to limit an IP to only one account at a time?

Relf:
I think that ban-on first offence should be a sliding scale method, you'r avatar's too big, 'you double post or you revive should be the use of those yellow cards, a nice sign saying "you screwed up big time". Anything worse than that should be an instant permaban, any second offence thats not painfully obvious as an accident should also be a permaban.

Mabye there should also be a third portion of the sight, the main website, the forums, and the FAQ section where you can get the answers quickly so that you dont spam the fourms.

I also think that Mods should'nt be able to ban unless its the short time ban, might lead to abuse if you just decide you dont like someone because of say, a political view.

Im not really the best person to be making or even suggesting rules (I've broken several myself) but I'd really like to see these put into effect. I wasn't here for the Illustrious "Days of Olden Tymes" but I do remember how great it was when I first showed up.


Also, Qhimm, mabye it would be a good idea to post who you would want as a mod to skip some of these pointless "Applications".

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