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Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: yarLson on 2011-07-30 04:22:12
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who here believes that pharmaceutical companies are actually here to help cure our illnesses?
Who here actually believes that this money that we all donate to all these "cancer research" foundations actually goes towards finding a cure?
And finally, for now, how many of you believe that the cure for cancer is right under our nose, and that actually, there is more than one known "cure" and "somebody" is funding a massive cover up of information, and cutting the funding to anyone who is trying to research these alternatives?
These are issues that I am being faced with more and more on a personal basis and I am interested in hearing what some of you might have to say about it.
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Well pharmaceutical companies are in business to make money, but they make money by weakening illness and eventually curing it. While I don't know if some drugs actually require $300,000,000 in R&D, they do certainly cost many millions of dollars to produce. If we didn't regulate such things, then perhaps they would be much cheaper to produce and would come out more frequently, hundreds or thousands of people would probably die in the process, which is usually considered an unacceptable risk. So yeah, I think that the money, primarily, goes towards finding a cure.
The cure for cancer is like the Powerball Lottery Jackpot.<--- **EDIT: I don't remember wtf I meant by this** People may have been exposed to a cure for cancer, but just did not know it, or it is something you just simply can't fix. What if we had been trying to find a cure for death? or aging? Well we kind of have, but we still die, and we still get old; people still get cancer. I don't think it is a cover up or consipiracy. It is too revolting to imagine.
If you are facing these issues on a personal basis, then I suggest consulting with actual oncologists and reading textbooks on the subject. Also, seek psychological counseling. When the fate of a loved one, or yourself if you mean a really personal basis, hangs by a thread for an extended period of time, it will eat you alive every waking moment without help.
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If you are facing these issues on a personal basis, then I suggest consulting with actual oncologists and reading textbooks on the subject. Also, seek psychological counseling. When the fate of a loved one, or yourself if you mean a really personal basis, hangs by a thread for an extended period of time, it will eat you alive every waking moment without help.
Will do you better than polling the public.
My two cents, since you asked for them:
1. Medicine is made to cure or treat illness. The pharmaceutical industry relies on that necessity to overcharge for drugs, but medicine won't make it to market, or won't be recommended by anyone's doctor, if it doesn't have at least some credible proof of efficacy. Health care is a business that will always be in demand, so there's no reason to create false business by distributing weaker drugs or making up diseases just so you can sell sugar pills for it. Even if you did, another company would just release a legitimate one and drum you out of business.
2. Like all charities, it depends who you're dealing with. When at all possible, it's advisable to donate money directly to the source you want to receive the funding, or as close as you can get.
3. Since cancer comes in so many flavors, I doubt there's any one overarching "cure for cancer." I don't see any reason to cover up a cure for cancer -- there is a lot more to be gained, even money for the heartless businesses, by releasing such a thing. I'm very curious what reasoning anyone's giving to that theory. However, while curing cancer is out of grasp, treating cancer has improved remarkably. Again, there's a lot of variety so it depends on the details of each situation, but it's not generally a big scary death sentence like it used to be.
My father is a family physician with whom I have worked very closely, so I feel confident in saying that there are flaws to the system, mostly in costs and anything to do with for-profit health insurance, but the products of modern medicine are designed to heal you.
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who here believes that pharmaceutical companies are actually here to help cure our illnesses?
Who here actually believes that this money that we all donate to all these "cancer research" foundations actually goes towards finding a cure?
And finally, for now, how many of you believe that the cure for cancer is right under our nose, and that actually, there is more than one known "cure" and "somebody" is funding a massive cover up of information, and cutting the funding to anyone who is trying to research these alternatives?
These are issues that I am being faced with more and more on a personal basis and I am interested in hearing what some of you might have to say about it.
The two posters above me handled this pretty well. As a medical student, I am nipping this thread in the bud before anyone spreads misinformation.
1. Pharmaceutical companies are here to cure illnesses. Why would they do otherwise? They are not the final point of care and if a drug does not perform to specifications it will not be approved by the FDA, it will not be prescribed by doctors if many patients have undesirable effects, and its long-term efficacy will show it to be ineffective. Pharmaceutical companies are not trying to make you sick. I cannot emphasize this enough. Yes, some drugs have had serious complications after coming to market but that has more to do with the approval process than malfeasance on the part of the companies. The number of drugs that have had complications is dwarfed by the number of drugs that are regularly prescribed with little ill effects.
Speaking of approval, it costs more than a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market. The first step is to identify potential areas of weakness in the market that could turn a profit to support new research and development. Next, potential compounds are identified that have potential to act at the target site. Of these thousands of potential compounds, probably 1000 will head to in vitro testing. Of those, about 200 will make it to animal studies. Through animal studies the efficacy profile and side effect profile will be initially established. Most new drug studies fail at this stage. In many cases, our animal models are not good enough to approximate the human conditions so it is difficult to create studies that have enough data for human testing. Only about 10 potential compounds will be approved for initial human studies. Phase I is a small human trial typically <10 healthy people used to establish safety. 0-5 compounds will make it through this phase. Yes, a company can get all the way to Phase I only to have all their potential drugs fail. Phase II is a larger study usually in individuals with the target disease that establishes dosing. Usually 0-1 drug(s) make it through this phase. Phase III is the large double-blind randomized study that establishes approval for the drug. It costs around 50-100 million dollars just to run a Phase III study. If the 1 drug makes it through Phase III, it still may not be approved for market. If it is approved, it will enter Phase IV which is the long-term phase evaluating for safety in the general population.
I haven't touched on how difficult it is to run drug studies or the legal expenses involved but I hope you can now see why new drugs can be expensive. It is a huge risk, literally billions of dollars that can easily be lost forever, and companies need the income to fund R&D for additional drugs. Also, drug formulations are major indications to use brand names over certain generics due to different dosing requirements. Less dosing (as in one per day instead of 2-3) is associated with increased patient compliance and better control of medical conditions.
2. There will not be a cure for cancer in our lifetimes. Cancer by itself is not a diagnosis. Cancer is a broad term for a huge number of diseases caused by abnormal genetics and increased growth of cells. Different types of tissues develop different types of cancers and in many cases two people with the same type of cancer may have developed that cancer through completely different genetic mechanisms. There is no cure for cancer lying under our noses and nobody is funding a massive cover up of information. There are cures for certain types of cancers such as chronic myelogenous leukemia with a 9:22 translocation. Gleevec blocks the specific abnormal protein caused by this mutation that causes uncontrolled cell growth. Gleevec is made and marketed by Novartis (a pharmaceutical company) so your assertion that these companies are not interested in cures is wrong.
Funding for different cancer foundations is devoted to researching those diseases. This is especially important for rare but deadly cancers such as pancreatic cancer where it is difficult to receive grant funding from the NIH.
It is my professional opinion that you should seek counseling if these issues are affecting you on a personal basis.
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Why would anyone want to keep more people alive longer? :evil:
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2. There will not be a cure for cancer in our lifetimes. Cancer by itself is not a diagnosis. Cancer is a broad term for a huge number of diseases caused by abnormal genetics and increased growth of cells.
In an easy-to-understand comic form:
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1162
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allow ME to put an end to this thread by revealing my motive for starting it in the first place. First of all, I am not sure how many people are aware of this, so i think it is important to note a few things before I begin my arguement.
Firstly, that most medical careers do not require a single course on nutrition. The primary medical studies fall mostly under two categories which are drugs and surgery. And in fact if these types of doctors are found recommending alternative or nutritional treatment to their patients they will be sued for malpractice, not by their patients, but by their peers, thus there is no desire to learn of alternative methods or anything to do with nourishing the body. Surgery and drugs fall under a category of treatment that I like to call symptom stomping for obvious reasons.
Secondly, another important thing to note before I even take another step is that the average drug mark up (from cost of making to cost to you) is about 2,000%. This is a very precious market and not one that any of the Big Pharma companies are willing to lose. There are literally more pharma lobbiests in washington than there are senators and congressman in the entire country.
Thirdly, it is virtually impossible to expose the human body to a chemical that it has never seen throughout the course of human history (i.e. synthesized drugs) without expecting to see some unusual and undesired effects. Furthermore most drugs are designed to interfere with entire systems of the body, for example anti-inflammatory drugs completely shut down the cox 1 pathway. This pathway is responsible for protecting the lining of your stomach and it is the first line of defense for the immune system thus the side effects of ulcers and weakened immunity.
Now I will begin to explain. There is a cure for cancer, I don't really care for your opinion because I have seen it with my own eyes and I work with the people who should be dead right now according to traditional medicine. There is no one single end all cure however, there are a series of steps that can be taken that will virtually erase cancer every single time. In order to protect myself and my company I won't be using any specific names (we try to stay friendly with the FDA). But basically I have found myself fortunate enough to begin working under a 35 year experienced Doctor. This man started his medical career by founding and heading a large cancer clinic in a metropolitan area. The difference being that this was an alternative treatment center. At any given time he had approximately 15-20 doctors underneath him. They would give people medicines for free that the other hospitals would throw away, and he had a very generous and knowledgeable friend who supplied patients with free medicinal herbs. Among many other nutritional and alt protocols there success rate was astounding to say the least. He ran this clinic for about a decade and a half. He has been all over the world, worked with the man who founded NASA, and headed numerous clinics of various specialties, from performance to illness. He still practices today and is semi retired but runs an impressive clinic in a small town.
My experience under this man was so profound that I have decided to change my major to a medical career to help spread the word that alt treatments work. Now that was almost 20 years ago that they were running this clinic and technology has come a long way. Basically there is one company (which is the company that I work for) that began about 15 years ago to start research medicinal organic compounds on the same level as pharma companies. In fact by definition we are a pharma company ourselves. We employ HTP, LCMS, GCMS, Bio-chemistry Proton NMR a host of other technologies and most impressively full scale genomics research. Again the difference is that we do this research on plants and herbs rather than synthetic compounds. I won't get into to detail but the results are astounding to say the least. We are able to identify the actual components (molecules) responsible for the benefit in any given plant or herb.
I will only use one example, as I have said earlier most anti-inflammatory drugs shut down cox 1 pathway completely. We have developed an entirely organic anti inflammatory proven through independently run placebo controlled double blind human clinical trials to be 300% more effective than the leading prescriptions. Funny thing is that there are no dangerous side effects and it only alters the cox 1 pathway every so slightly rather than completely shutting it down.
As for cancer, study rife therapy, AND the works of a man name Robert C. Beck for cleaning out the immune system of toxins parasite and pathogens. This will allow it to focus on the cancer, see the great thing is, OUR BODIES THEMSELVES are the best cancer killers. Once this is done a simple organic and healthy diet with allow your body the raw materials it needs to kill the rogue cells. This is for informational use only and I am not trying to treat, cure prevent or diagnose any illnesses here.
As my mentor so brilliantly put it, "when working with chemicals that our body has never been exposed to, finding a cure for cancer is like trying to find a needle in a haystack the size of the sun. However when you give our bodies the organic and natural substances that they have adapted to for millions of years the answer becomes clear."
The biggest problem today isn't that the pharma companies don't have enough money and time to find a cure. Its that our food is less potent and more polluted then it was 50 years ago. In fact we don't even have half the potency of standard nutrition in our soils as we did 50 years ago.
The simplest "cure" for cancer is prevention, which is knowing how your body works and what it needs. If you wanna argue the genomic argument that "cancer is genetic and there is nothing that you can do." I will just say that thanks to thorough studies on identical twins, we now know that genes have about a 35% responsibility for genetic illness. The other 65% percent is up to you. Or so the saying goes, "a man owes very little to what he is born with, a man owes everything to what he makes of himself"
Believe what you want, it is of little consequence to me if you decide that mother nature is the enemy (which is common in virtually every profession). My bottom line is, if I can help people without exposing them to a host of dangerous side effects and life threatening treatments then I am sure I will always have a patient or two to keep me going. In my genuine opinion, pharma drugs and invasive surgery do have a useful place in medical science and should by no means be eradicated but SHOULD be the alternative form of medicine to less harmful, more effective, more direct and more natural forms of treatment.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8)
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Indiscriminate distrust will cause you to be a very lonely individual in the future. You're applying a type of logic that is vaguely reminiscent of KM's style of interpretation. Not all facts/examples are generalizable to the extent you make them out to be. Any example is pretty much only relevant to that particular example. If the cure for cancer is known to some, it would not be a secret for long. I don't mean to come off as condescending, so I apologize if I have. You can't only pay attention to the most salient facts; the truth is often revealed by examining the subtleties.
That being said, I believe in the healing power of plenty of nontraditional medicines, and also in modern pharmaceuticals. Also, idk what you are talking about with the identical twins 65/35% thing...different behavioral traits and different genetic traits all exist with different degrees of heritability and are basically only minimally predictable. If two parents both have brown hair and both have schizophrenia, their child doesn't have an equal chance of developing schizophrenia as he/she does of having brown hair. With an entirely contrived set of genes in an entirely contrived environment, we still could not say for certain that this person would develop this disease or not develop that disease.
Cleaning out our body of toxins etc? Our body produces things that can be toxic to us...
There are people that worked in coal mines and smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day and did not develop lung cancer, and there are others that lived in areas with fresh air and engaged in healthy lifestyles who have developed lung cancer.
Sorry...after rereading this, it has probably only made me sound like an ass, and pissed you off. Not my intention.
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Cleaning out our body of toxins etc? Our body produces things that can be toxic to us...
There are people that worked in coal mines and smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day and did not develop lung cancer, and there are others that lived in areas with fresh air and engaged in healthy lifestyles who have developed lung cancer.
This is where genetics factor in. I know there are real-world examples of this happening so I won't bother siting any. Smoker coal miner might have a high tolerance to higher carbon concentrations because he worked in a mine. That's how most immunizations work too. Expose the subject to small and weakened amounts of a virus and they'll develop an immunity when they get exposed to larger concentrations of the same thing. Do this when the subject is young and the immune system will be strong. I'm not saying give inoculations to every baby (although I will give them to mine). It's just as acceptable to allow them to be exposed to things when they're young too. The same thing will happen.
Also, perhaps the "clean-air" person might have been exposed to something else that caused said person to develop lung cancer. They don't have this tolerance to higher levels of pollutants in their bodies and their lungs "object" by developing cancer.
The twins thing goes beyond genetics. It goes back to while they're in the womb. It's impossible for twins to receive the same "treatment" in the womb together throughout the whole term. A hormone given to one fetus in a higher concentration than the other at any time would instantly make them different. Genetically identical or not, twins are never identical on the inside.
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All cancer is is damage to your dna which causes the cell to mutate improperly. It can happen by environmental causes, genetic causes, or by sheer dumb luck. On the other hand people may not be exposed to environmental causes, genetic causes, or maybe they just dont get it from sheer luck. Cancer has been around for as long as humans have, and I dont see it going away before we are gone either (unless they figure out some way to repair dna)
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sl1982 is exactly right, and don't worry I'm not taking anything personally but I as for your argument, I have met enough people who are cancer free to convince me there is something here beyond anecdotal evidence. As for DNA damage the key here is DNA polymerase which is a quality control gene that uses vibration to find errors in the DNA then travels to that area of the strand and corrects the error. Funnily enough, the company that I work for has designed another formula that has been proven through independently run, double blind, randomized, human clinical trials to increase DNA polymerase and decrease DNA damage in as little as 14 days.
Just allow me to ask you this one simple question, if you have any sort of faith or belief that the process that is used to design and distribute traditional pharma drugs is genuinely effective, why is it so hard to believe that substances that are designed using that same rigorous scientific process only on organic compounds can be just as or potentially more useful?
Anyway I am not ignoring subtleties I was simply trying to streamline my explanation without taking a million years going over detail by detail. If you really wanna I can break down the anabolic and catabolic processes and outline how different cancers and disease form and progress. If you look at the stats from just a hundred years ago, there was less cancer, less heart disease, less diabetes and less of a million other illnesses. Back then people were eating even more butter, even more steak and even more of the "unhealthy" foods that we are told to avoid. In my personal opinion this is because of the level of synthetic chemicals that have been introduced combined with less and less nutritious soils and therefore foods and animals. And nowadays, genetically modified products only serve to multiply the problem. Our DNA hasn't changed much at all in 10,000. We have spent literally hundreds of thousands of years on this planet steadily gaining intelligence, the whole time, as far as we are aware, we were most likely only exposed to natural compounds and pure soils and waters. The problem is purity and quality not the human body itself.
The human body is a miracle plain and simple. Pharma is just a profit engine, I notice everyone saying "why wouldn't the pharma companies wanna cure cancer"
DUH! if they cure cancer, then what need do you have to buy more drugs? no no, the perfect pharma drug in their eyes is one you have to take for the rest of your life. Talk about a fucking profit engine. I am sorry but snap out of it. These fucking people want your money, bottom line, of course if thorough and proven science helps them do it, then that's what they will use. I won't even get into the population control.
Bottom line it really doesn't matter if you believe it or not. There are people out there in this world, with a lot of money and/or a lot of power who DO believe that the population is out of control, that would do anything to retain that power and that money. Including killing you and your whole family while cleaning out your savings account. All the while they genuinely believe that they are only doing what is necessary by getting rid of the weakness and keeping population under control.
Come on, be real.
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I thought maybe by reading this thread we as a community of FF7 enthusiasts could cure my father's case of Merkel-Cell Carcinoma. Yarlson, you seem to be suggesting that his best hope for survival outside of the traditional tools (chemotherapy, radiation, surgery) is "cleaning out [his] immune system of toxins parasite and pathogens". I can't say that I think doing that would ever be a bad thing. . . but I was really hoping perhaps we might be able to do more for him than an enema or whatever that entails. Prevention is certainly the way to go, but when you're looking at losing your old man, and his long-time love for processed foods and soda haven't met up with that approach, where do you go from there? Is there something NEW on the horizon?
Well... maybe. As it turns out my dad's body IS actively fighting this "infection". Indeed this type of cancer and a lot of others basically act like viruses, from what little I have understood about it. Merkel-cell is typically extremely resistant to the bodies immune system. But for whatever reason, his T-cells are actively attacking the cancer, keeping the mass he's developed small. It's in a place where surgery isn't feasible. Since his medical team noticed the immune response, they've been working to replicate the potency of his immune agents, which are apparently vastly more effective than is typical--the hope being that the substance they eventually develop can be infused into Merkel-cell patients. The development process has been going on for several months now, and I'm getting anxious; I'm worried he will run out of time to get to test it out himself. The word is that within a few weeks he will for the umpteenth time since this all began 6 months ago, fly to Seattle, WA (the center of the Merkel-cell world) and begin receiving the treatments. That seems remarkably fast to me. Is the Pharm industry involved with this at all? I don't know at all. I really don't know any details AT ALL about the project. It does suggest some communication between the medical community/research/pharmo industry. Maybe this type of research is exactly what you are suggesting is really fighting/attempting to cure cancer, Yarlson. I hope so... I like to think we're really doing everything that can be done to extend his life. I've been told he has a 20% chance of surviving, though I'm unclear of how LONG hes supposed to live for in the positive scenario. We try not to dwell on it.
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sl1982 is exactly right, and don't worry I'm not taking anything personally but I as for your argument, I have met enough people who are cancer free to convince me there is something here beyond anecdotal evidence. As for DNA damage the key here is DNA polymerase which is a quality control gene that uses vibration to find errors in the DNA then travels to that area of the strand and corrects the error. Funnily enough, the company that I work for has designed another formula that has been proven through independently run, double blind, randomized, human clinical trials to increase DNA polymerase and decrease DNA damage in as little as 14 days.
Just allow me to ask you this one simple question, if you have any sort of faith or belief that the process that is used to design and distribute traditional pharma drugs is genuinely effective, why is it so hard to believe that substances that are designed using that same rigorous scientific process only on organic compounds can be just as or potentially more useful?
Anyway I am not ignoring subtleties I was simply trying to streamline my explanation without taking a million years going over detail by detail. If you really wanna I can break down the anabolic and catabolic processes and outline how different cancers and disease form and progress. If you look at the stats from just a hundred years ago, there was less cancer, less heart disease, less diabetes and less of a million other illnesses. Back then people were eating even more butter, even more steak and even more of the "unhealthy" foods that we are told to avoid. In my personal opinion this is because of the level of synthetic chemicals that have been introduced combined with less and less nutritious soils and therefore foods and animals. And nowadays, genetically modified products only serve to multiply the problem. Our DNA hasn't changed much at all in 10,000. We have spent literally hundreds of thousands of years on this planet steadily gaining intelligence, the whole time, as far as we are aware, we were most likely only exposed to natural compounds and pure soils and waters. The problem is purity and quality not the human body itself.
The human body is a miracle plain and simple. Pharma is just a profit engine, I notice everyone saying "why wouldn't the pharma companies wanna cure cancer"
DUH! if they cure cancer, then what need do you have to buy more drugs? no no, the perfect pharma drug in their eyes is one you have to take for the rest of your life. Talk about a fucking profit engine. I am sorry but snap out of it. These fucking people want your money, bottom line, of course if thorough and proven science helps them do it, then that's what they will use. I won't even get into the population control.
Bottom line it really doesn't matter if you believe it or not. There are people out there in this world, with a lot of money and/or a lot of power who DO believe that the population is out of control, that would do anything to retain that power and that money. Including killing you and your whole family while cleaning out your savings account. All the while they genuinely believe that they are only doing what is necessary by getting rid of the weakness and keeping population under control.
Come on, be real.
Let me set a few things straight about what I believe on this subject. I believe that there can be 'cures' for cancer. While not a cure in a general sense more of a fix. Like a broken bone. While setting a bone and letting it heal for 6 weeks will fix the problem it is not exactly a cure, you can easily break another bone later in life. I believe cancer works the same way. While living a healthy lifestyle and eating certain foods will help prevent a reoccurance or help prevent entirely getting cancer it is no guarantee that someone will not get it. While there are some substances that will help get rid of cancer it is only a fix. There is a reason they say you are in remission and not cured. As for big pharma drugs vs homeopathic, I believe that both have the potential to help prevent or fix a current cancer. There is absolutely no reason at all that a synthetic molecule has to work better then one found in nature. My problem with homeopathic is the snake oil salesman that convince people that their product will cure a person so they forgo all traditional medicines. I would like to see some of these homeopathic medicines go through a controlled double blind and see how they fare. Honestly I believe that our best bet to find something to 'cure' cancer will be derived from a natural substance, but you wont see me taking something like that exclusively over traditional medicine without clinical trials and published literature in a reputable journal.
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I was trying to be subtle, not really trying to cure anyone here. But if you really want a better explanation then here it is. Rife therapy was developed in the thirties. royalrife.com It actually has the ability to destroy cancer cells using electronic sound. The only reason why it is not in common practice now is because its inventor refused to sell out to a big corp, so they tried to crush him and kept his machine down. Anyway it works, I've seen it, and its been scientifically tested and proven by multiple alt doctors since then. If you've ever seen a glass break when a certain sound wave is hit, its very similar to that. As for robert c becks protocol, well you might want to take it a bit more seriously. I dunno about you but I trust my immune system more than any prescription. The problem is that cancer is not the priority for your immunity. This is part of our dna. If there is an infection, a bug, a bacteria, a virus the bodies immunity is programmed to focus all its attention on this instead of cancer, because 10,000 years ago that probably would have been the more viable threat. If there is nothing else but the cancer the immune system kicks in to gear and is designed to kill off these rogue cells when "it has nothing better to do". Robert C. Beck's machine has even been shown to clear out any virus in the blood stream. *hint* *hint*
anyway he was so upset at the fact that they wouldn't publish his works and machine that he made a book and gave it away for free and also made an electronic copy. you can find it without much effort. It explains how it works, how to use it, why it works, what you need to make it, a detailed blueprint and safety instructions.
as for published literature, we were about 90% complete ready to publish our double blind I described above on the anti-inflammatory being more effective than the leading pharma anit-inflam but guess who had an ad in the journal. Unfortunately getting these things published in this oppresive pharma controlled FDA system is kinda like a fairy tale. It would be really nice if it happened, but don't expect it to actually go down any time soon.
I am not sure if you are aware of this but, there is an FDA law that states essentially this. One cannot handle, access, or share clinical information unless that individual is a licensed professional. Meaning that, if you really wanna see some trials, I could introduce you to my doc and he will have no problem letting you know all the clinical trials we have done so far as well as the rest of the clinical information but as for me, my hands are tied until I receive a degree. I would do it anyway, but I have no easy way to access the info without hacking into servers and putting my job at risk; no thanks, I love what I do too much. By the way, I am serious, I will give you his phone number and you can ask him yourself.
You may be thinking "that's not a real law, what a phony" well check it out. The law is too valuable not to exist if you think about it, its a double edged blade. Not only does it serve to keep the nature based scientists at bay; if a pharma company finds that one of their big expensive "experiments" ends up getting the job done but along the way it killed say, 30% of the using population, well that's okay because as long as nobody spends their time and money exposing these facts, they are not required and in fact legally protected from this information ever getting out. Thus they can sell the drug for at best a few years before anyone connects the dots and at least get there moneys worth. Viox for example. Of course since they are a huge corp no one will be held accountable anyway and they will chalk it up to human err and ignorance.
there is another thing we agree on though, as my mentor often says to his patients "as much as I love what I do, its sad to say that the world of nutrition makes the world of used car salesman look like saints." Unfortunately there is mostly nothing but hype in the holistic and alternative realm which is what makes the really effective stuff so damn hard to learn about, get your hands on and trust in its effectiveness.
The snake oil salesmen are real, and of course be wary of any information you receive especially over the interweb. But I dare any single one of you to prove me wrong conclusively. Of course this would force you to make your own decision about all this which is why I even bother in the first place.
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If you have valid scientific proof that Rife's machines and methods work, it needs to see the light of day. Maybe mainstream publication will deny it, but one of the double-edged wonders of the internet is the ease of leaking information that somebody with a dollar to gain wants to keep down.
I also suggest submitting it to the James Randi Educational Foundation. If it qualifies for their challenge of homeopathy (I don't know what specific alternative medicines were addressed in their recent announcement), there could be a million dollars in it, which could be infinitely helpful to propagate the knowledge and use, as well as get some licensing to stop all the fraudulent "Rife machines" that've been in circulation.
As a skeptic, I'd love to see this scientifically proven true, but remain merely intrigued until then.
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well my mentor has been using it for over 2 decades now so I am no longer a skeptic but I can understand. The problem here is mostly the quality of the machine you get. Some are incredible, while some are incredibly shitty. I might just take you up on that proposal. As far as educating yourself on it, that's why I posted the link.
royalrife.com
the machine recommended by the man who publishes on that site is the highest quality model that I know of and it is the one I have personally seen in action. But more than that, it is a valuable resource for learning more about the therapy, how it works, how its administered, so forth and so on.
you can also read a book entitled "The Cancer Cure that Worked" - Barry Lynes
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I was trying to be subtle, not really trying to cure anyone here. But if you really want a better explanation then here it is.
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like total BS.
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Not that you'd bother to find out for yourself, right? I'm sick of lazy people like you just eating from the hand that kills you. Be my guest, DON'T BELIEVE ME. Go ahead and choke on all those pharms for all I care. I have no regard for unscientific opinions boy.
have a nice day :]
p.s.
science = organized experimentation
not senselessly believing in popular opinion
good luck. you're gonna need it
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Sorry to hear about your dad, Template.
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My layman's perspective on this is that natural compound could be just as effective as synthetic ones. After all, we don't "create" synthetic compunds from thin air but we extract them from nautral sources and process them so I don't see why a ntural plant can't be as effective as an extracted compound. Maybe there's aisde effects associated with some plants and potency issues though but I'm sure some plants are suitable but some ailments.
Ancient medicine used teas and herbs to heal and people don't usually do things like that when they don't work. They might not be extremely effective but they did have some positive impact which we now have the tools to assess and quantity.
As for the whole conspiracy theories, I just don't buy it. I agree there would be challenges in getting people to adopt natural compound but a company doing research in those fields, doing the double blind studies and having the marketing funds to advertise and make their research and products known will succeed at doing so. Maybe it'll be divisons of big pharmas doing that as I'd expect these natural compounds to come in pill form as well. Pharmas have been complaining that the "easy" molecules have all been looked at and that it's increasingly expensive to do R&D. Sooner or later, they'll need to take a different approach.
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conspiracy theory is such a convenient word isn't it. It allows for such blatant disregard of REALITY its just sickening. If your so blind that you can't see the policies and procedures set in place that are obviously and clearly designed and implemented to kill people and control population then I can't help you. If your so ignorant of evolutionary theory than you think that something like HIV can just come out of a monkey one day and wind up being the most unstoppable virus ever designed I can't help you. If you don't realize how many CHILDREN are starving to death as we speak as cooperation make a profit off of destroying their land and economies then I really can't fucking help you.
As for natural compounds, nobody seems to realize that synthetic compounds can't even be absorbed by the body. On average, only 5 to 10% of a prescription drug is absorbed. Again if your too ignorant of evolutionary theory to understand why this makes sense, I can't help you. Take a class. Anyway, the problem is not potency, plants can be concentrated.
It is of little consequence whether you believe me right now or not, ten years from now my company will be a household name and 50 years from now we will completely revolutionize medicine as we know it today. So I assure you, you will be jumping on the bandwagon sooner or later, given that you survive long enough. Everyone has an agenda, you can't trust ANYBODY, no matter which journal they publish in, no matter their profession, no matter their background. People distort the truth for monetary and social gain, this is a widely known fact. I assume you will accept that much.
The man who runs my company has an agenda as well. His father owned the first insurance company in South Korea and became a billionaire. His father was diagnosed with liver cirrhosis and given six months to live. Desperate, this man tried everything until a friend convinced him to try drinking aloe vera, that it "might give him an extra few months". To his great amazement it ended up curing his disease and he lived for 22 more long years (and might I add, didn't die from liver cirrhosis), which were dedicated to growing and researching aloe on a scale that nobody have ever done on a plant in history, that is with pharmaceutical grade equipment.
When the company was handed down to his son, this new leader expanded his fathers vision. In short we are now responsible for contracting numerous organizations and universities who in turn send out trained ethno-botanists into these cultures. They live with them, they study them, they go with them to pick the plants, they write down which part of the plant is picked, at what time of the year, and how they prepare it. once they have all this information recorded, they bring a sample back to lab where they can divide it into 88 fractions, further isolating the active compounds. Using pharma grade R & D, we are able to identify the specific natural molecule responsible for the benefit, as well as find new potential uses that were not in practice by traditional healers. You cannot patent a plant, but you can patent a specific compound or specific molecule that no one prior to our company has found. With both our labs combined, we have collected about 17,000 known medicinal herbs and plants and brought them in for complete study. This is about half of all the known medicinal plants on the planet, which there are about 35,000 of. This has taken approximately 14 years to do. In total our global conglomerate has been around 35+ years. We outsource a lot of our patents to other companies as well as the fact that we have our own unique fully family owned and globally initiated distribution company of our very own, so believe me their is no shortage of money to fund this research and millions of dollars worth of clinical trials and testing.
To date, we have over 177 patents and patents pending. I think the next nutrition company behind us as about 4. So perhaps this will put into perspective the uniqueness of this specific company. We also have land purchased in every climate zone, so that when we find a plant of interest, we can grow it, at the highest standard of organic farm that I have ever seen, and supply the highest quality ingredients, which can then be concentrated at our manufacturing site, which has a lot of the same equipment as the lab for isolating the compounds and concentrating the dose. All of this is owned fully, by the same man, who's vision it is, ultimately, through a 100 year plan, to revolutionize medicine completely. One last thing, we are the only nutrition company with any sort of quality control to speak of. Which means that before and after packaging we test the potency and purity and if there is not as much of exactly what we say there is in the bottle and nothing else then we don't send it out. Plain and simple.
But hey don't believe me. This family is literally the most honored family in South Korea. I will give you a hint, our CEO's mother and sister run the highest regarded University in their country. Right now, our CEO gives away more food than any man in the world, and our charitable branch is probably the fastest growing charity in the world. So don't believe me, plenty of people will come along who see the opportunity, see a genuine purpose, and we have no shortage of brave thinkers who are not afraid to push boundaries.
In the end, in every generation there are always a majority of people saying that something can't be done, or that it is impossible, but ultimately, in every generation, there are those who say "no, your all wrong". These are the people who revolutionize our understanding and eventually become widely accepted. Praise to the brave souls who aren't afraid to see the truth without having to wait a hundred years for the majority opinion to change.
So I'll say again. Good luck, because if your putting your life and trust in Big Pharma, your definitely gonna need it.
so you might be wondering at this point, "why haven't I heard of this company." Two major reasons, our distribution is the latest adition to the family. We had the farms, the labs and the manufacturing all getting set up and ready to go for about 2 and a half decades before we started distributing anything under the family name. We have only about 10 years under our belt which is what it usually takes a company to get everything up and running. We haven't wasted it and in fact far exceeded what most companies do in their first ten years. In another ten years I assure you we will be a household name. We are actually the first company of our kind to be allowed access to distribute in China. We are expanding all the time. So keep your eyes out.
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Metabolites from chemical compounds, whether inherent or pharmaceutical, are formed as part of the natural biochemical process of degrading and eliminating the compounds. The rate of degradation of a compound is an important determinant of the duration and intensity of its action.
,
A conspiracy theory is a fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end.
According to political scientist Michael Barkun, the appeal of conspiracism is threefold: First, conspiracy theories claim to explain what mainstream narratives cannot. They appear to make sense out of a world that is otherwise confusing. Second, they do so in an appealingly simple way, by dividing the world sharply between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. They trace all evil back to a single source, the conspirators and their agents. Third, conspiracy theories are often presented as special, secret knowledge unknown or unappreciated by others. For conspiracy theorists, the masses are a brainwashed herd, while the conspiracy theorists in the know can congratulate themselves on penetrating the plotters' deceptions.
also,
Snake oil...the most common usage of the phrase is as a derogatory term for quack medicine. The expression is also applied metaphorically to any product with exaggerated marketing but questionable and/or unverifiable quality or benefit.
It seems that the people who oppose your viewpoint the most are the ones that have close relationships with someone who has one or another form of cancer. When you describe your understanding of cancer and its cure, these people feel insulted because you are practically telling them their loved ones developed cancenr because they did not engage in a healthy lifestyle and they have misplaced faith in modern medicine - when many of these people have only survived this long due to modern medicine. If the method you speak of is as effective as you claim it is, I would suggest making as much noise about it as possible so that you can get on with saving people's lives. For those of us close to cancer victims, we would probably gladly try your machine it was available to us and it actually works, but until that time arrives perhaps you shouldn't call them idiots for utilizing other options to extend their lives; especially those who have experienced successful remission.
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stop acting like I have never been close to anyone with cancer. I am sure just about everyone has in this day and age. In case you weren't paying attention I changed my major to a medical field so yeah, I will be making plenty of noise don't be worrying about that. I would like to help as many people as possible, which is why I try. Insults are of little injury if somebody finds positive benefit from anything I say.
Anyway I love how its always assumed that conspiracy theories are the work of uneducated individuals. I won't say any more. I know people who work for the NSA, I know people who worked at NORAD, my best friend is a poli-sci major who is it close with a lot of these politics and there ain't no theory involved. I have seen with my own eyes the corrupt agendas of these individuals. But I know for a fact that nobody will listen so I won't bother with that. Believe what you want, maybe someone will actually do their research and benefit off of what I have to say here. As I said before modern medicine has a place, don't twist my argument. I am simply saying that dangerous pharms and chemo should be a last resort and not the only option. As for not living a healthy lifestyle, I am sorry but that's just the way mother nature is. She doesn't care how much you love your mother, unfortunately if you don't take care of yourself (many times through no fault of your own, because of lack of accurate nutritional information) your body will begin to degenerate. I suppose there are some people who like to pretend that life ain't so brutal. As a future healer, I do not have that convenience. I am forced to look at the truth which is that mother nature does not like weakness. I have plenty of compassion and empathy for these people, I have lost a lot of loved ones myself. But mother nature unfortunately has strict rules, and if you follow her law, she will reward you with a long productive life. If you don't well, you know.
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I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows the president. I also know a guy who knows a guy who was a friend of a brother of the CEO of a big Pharma Corp. See how silly that sounds? I have never once said that your intent wasn't to help people or that your methods wouldn't work. I just expressed scepticism of the information you've provided. I most certainly agree that living a healthy lifestyle and keeping a good diet etc. are good for you. Hell, I would even agree that such a lifestyle probably reduces your likelihood of developing cancer. But it definetely does not prevent cancer. And you are not working on something that eliminates cancer from any person with any cancer. The prescence of corruption is not the prescence of absolute corruption. Once again, I agree there is corruption and sinister motives for many establishments. It has been proven time and time again! But you do not assume absolute corruption indicriminantly. "Trust no one" may be a beneficial motto to live by for some, but that does not mean that there are not those worthy of your trust. Do you think these people emerged from the womb as CEOs of Medical/Drug/etc. companies? At some point, some of them also decided they would help people. Mother nature may have her blueprints and her laws, but a blueprint is far different from the product is represents and laws only have power over that which they govern. Many cancer survivors would argue that emotional support, family ties, and faith in God are responsible for their survival. Many of these people were given a prognosis of death. Certainly they aren't subject to the same set of laws that you speak of.
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Thats not even close to what I said. one my friend's dad has a bachelors in electrical engineering, bachelors in computer science and a masters in physics.he worked for the nsa for twenty years. Thats just one example. My mentor specialized it cancer treatment for 30 years. Never once has he administered surgery or chemo. Hes got something else that works. Ive seen it. I dont have time right now to break down all my connections as I am typing from a phone. But instead of mocking me why not look into it yourself and " prove me wrong if you can." As far as god family and faith, thats part of nature. There is no stepping outside of mother nature, no matter our attempts to distort her image. Proven fact, a sense of community boosts anabolic hormones which in turn help your body fight much better. Its all part of the same cycle. I am not demonizing pharms. Nor the world at large.
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I dont think that is the way it works yarLson. If you are trying to convince skeptics of something making them prove you wrong is not the way to go about it. You need to prove yourself right. Telling us that you have seen these treatments work is not proof either. As it stands I cannot make an honest opinion on the matter, i have no evidence either way. I did look at that link you posted but the site is not very well designed and I was not able to find what I was looking for.
At one time people believed the sun rotated about the earth. It took more then a few people just saying it was the other way around before belief changed.
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Well I hope you're right man. Sorry for communicating so strongly, but if your cure for cancer does not do what you claim, it would do some serious psychological, and therefore physiological, damage to those fighting cancer once they heard these claims and it did not cure them. <--- This is the only reason I asserted my skepticism so strongly. If I saw your mentor on the news with his cure and took my mom to go try it out for $XXXXX.xx and it failed to work, we would be in a much weaker position to fight the cancer than we previously were. I'm sure you can understand this, and I hold no hard feelings towards you personally. I understand that you wish to help people, and that is admirable. Good luck with your cure, I hope it becomes commercially available sooner than later (if it works as you say it does).
*I don't think we can escape the hold of Mother Nature, but I do think that we, as a species, have a fatally flawed understanding of such things. Language itself is partially responsible for this - some of the things that you include in the category of mother nature, I include in the category of human existence, which I do not consider the same. Thoughts, beliefs, and emotions exist because humans create them; mother nature just created the potential for them to exist.
I often disagree with your Philosophical position, but I think your projects are great and I share a deep interest in the types of topics you post about. I'll try and keep it more objective next time a good discussion comes up, maybe you should too.
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Sorry to hear about your dad, Template.
Thanks so much, sincerely. I think that's what I was secretly hoping to get from posting that, anyway, just some empathy. Which is kinda selfish, I guess.
Not that you'd bother to find out for yourself, right? I'm sick of lazy people like you just eating from the hand that kills you. Be my guest, DON'T BELIEVE ME. Go ahead and choke on all those pharms for all I care. I have no regard for unscientific opinions boy.
have a nice day :]
p.s.
science = organized experimentation
not senselessly believing in popular opinion
good luck. you're gonna need it
But yah, we wont be zapping my dad with any sound waves so he's probably as good as dead. Anyway, pharmaceuticals aren't really an issue here because there aren't any being offered. Chemo-therapy isn't a good option because it tends to weaken the immune system. For a merkel-cell patient that generally just kills them faster.
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Template, you totally have my sympathies and need not feel selfish for it. (I have to admit this thread got so long-winded that I missed your post the first time around -- since Opine is the only one who properly responded to it I assume I'm not alone). I'm pleased to hear that your dad's case is presenting hope for himself and future patients. I'd recently wondered the viability and effectiveness of transferring or replicating extraordinary T-cells -- sort of like an immune system transplant. Keep us (or me, at least) updated on both your dad's condition and the treatment's development.
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Thanks so much, sincerely. I think that's what I was secretly hoping to get from posting that, anyway, just some empathy. Which is kinda selfish, I guess.
Not at all. It's hard to have someone close to you go through something, without knowing of a way to help them. I hope he is able to fight the "infection" off.
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So the plan is for infusion of replicated blood cells mid September... really good news. There has been some recent success in fighting Leukemia this way. They will follow this up with something called interferon, which I don't know much about. I guess it's supposed to help the immune-system recognize cancers as a threat. The team is also planning to use some sort of radiation following the infusions.
Also, I looked into it a little bit, and radio-frequency ablation is certainly not BS, it's just not for every situation. I think that was the Rife machines' technology? Similar anyway. This was specifically what I was referring to when I said something sounded like BS, just seems far-fetched, but it isn't. Honestly the website you pointed to made it look really hokey. Sorry :D
/cheers
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Most pharmaceutical companies make their money by treating symptoms not the illness itself, no money in healthy people.
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Most pharmaceutical companies make their money by treating symptoms not the illness itself, no money in healthy people.
No money in letting people die when you could offer a treatment, either.
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for the record, sounds waves do not zap anything...
in any case. I give up for now. I'll come back this when I have my doctorate and am more thoroughly informed on the inner workings of the process
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Isn't there some sort of rule about not trying to sell stuff on here?
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Although I'm not good with arguments, personal experience is my point here. In many ways am I effected by the Pro's and Con's of pharmaceuticals.
Pro's being that personally, my mother has recently undergone surgeries and such to help her deteriorating body to at LEAST prolong the inevitable. The fact that it is working is good enough for me to be able to have that extra time with someone I love dearly. The fact that she can live this life with as little pain as possible through the medical achievements that she is able to benefit from makes it that much more worth while.
The Con's Being that I personally went through many years on different medications for ADHD. Ritalin, Adderall and such. Even Medications for Depression ( as they believe that goes hand in hand with ADHD, Which i personally believe ADHD to be a personality trait not an ailment.) Zoloft ( HA... one of the side effects is depression go figure...) Dexidrine and more.
My point being, We can't exactly say that pharmaceuticals are for health alone. Everyone's gotta make money somehow. Medications that are helpful, and medications that are created just for monetary gain are just a way to make money whether or not its purposeful.
All in all, Given the chance, I would support Pharmaceutical companies completely in all aspects. May be strange, but I believe in a portion of the work that comes out of there and that portion has actually been proven to work.
I'm not trying to argue for, nor am I arguing against. Just stating opinion and I'll leave it at that
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That sucks about your expereiences with ADHD medication as it is one of the more research-rich areas in psychotopic pharmacology. The different types of medications are because certain companies will procure patents on certain chemical combinations. Also, as new generations of "cleaner" medications are developed, they may have had you try them out in an effort to reduce the number of side effects you were experiencing. While as many as 1 in 4 individuals with ADHD have comorbid depression, they may have been prescribing anti-depressants because many anti-depressants have similar effects to stimulants likes Ritalin and Adderall, but require fewer maintanence doses and once the serum levels plateau in your system offer a more consistent pattern of symptom reduction. Or it could be that you had a PCP prescribing your Psychotropic medication instead of a Psychiatrist which, unfortunately, occurs ~85% of the time.
I know that was a bit unneccessary, but I saw an opportunity to use some info from a recent grad course so I took it.
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I'm not selling anything either. In fact I went out of my way to keep my companies name a secret. I dunno about you, but if somebody I loved was in trouble I would at least be willing to look into any possible treatment available from a scientifically objective viewpoint. Rather than just making uneducated remarks and tasteless jokes and just assuming that I am wrong. But hey, to each his own. I'll say one more time. I don't care if you believe me. This information was intended for anybody with a little bit of courage to step outside the box of what is traditionally accepted. If you don't have any faith in the miraculous capabilities of the planet that miraculously gave birth to our entire reality... then honestly I can't argue with you and you win. At least in your own little way. Hopefully personal satisfaction is worth forsaking something that might be of value to you.
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Two documentaries that make my case for me.
http://www.archive.org/details/BurzynskiTheMovie (http://www.archive.org/details/BurzynskiTheMovie) Burzynski
http://freeviewdocumentaries.com/2011/04/30/cancer-the-fobbiden-cures/#more-6251 (http://freeviewdocumentaries.com/2011/04/30/cancer-the-fobbiden-cures/#more-6251) Cancer: The Forbidden Cures
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was looking back to see when i originally got into this conversation, which my only attempt at support from the internet about the subject (which obviously shows i wasn't really looking for it on the web, but that I have some genuine respect for the level of minds and compassion found on this forum)
because my dad finally lost his battle with Merkel-Cell Carcinoma a few hours ago.
hurts when you lose a friend.
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I am very sorry to hear about your loss. I hope that his life was rich and fulfilling.