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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Intel-Xeon on 2002-02-19 20:29:00
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I will call him Eric, used to love the FF series. Now it seems AD&D and all games related (Such as Baldur's Gate) have spoiled him into something else. He complains about random battles and how stupid the battle system is in FF7. He also cannot "Figure out" the plot of FF7. "It is to complicated and stupid..."
I agree that FF7 has some ups and downs but...
It is weird that he insults the FF series when he used to be more of a fanatic than me...
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I can kinda sympathize with you Intel... I play D&D 3rd Edition with a couple of friends from school. The person who got me into it, his dad is our DM... well now he doesn't like D&D anymore because he thinks that it is satanic... :weep:
the complicatedness (is that a word?) of FFVII is the coolest thing about it... I have the players guide for it and I refuse to read ahead so that nothing is spoiled becuase it's cool... that is the whole point of FFVII is to mess with your head... and the random battles in D&D are basically the same as in FF (you simply roll a 20 sided die to see if there is a random encounter every hour and everytime you go to a new room...)
Sorry,
Kendrilian
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I am a definate 2nd editioner. True sometimes there are random battles in AD&D but usually Eric just ties in battles whenever they are a part of the plot. Most of our sessions are just roleplaying and rarely battles. Eric is a crude DM.
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Intel-Itanium:
Usual. Most people, after playing something extra complicated/detailed, tend to think that FF is too simple.
Just respect Eric's opinions.
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On 2002-02-20 02:23, Joey wrote:
Intel-Itanium:
Usual. Most people, after playing something extra complicated/detailed, tend to think that FF is too simple.
Just respect Eric's opinions.
oh and II it's hard to be a good dm.
so what are you saying? that eric is too simple for either?
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Joey is right, so what if your friend Eric doesn't like Final Fantasy anymore. If he doesn't like games with a good story, but likes just the action of the game, then respect his decision. It's not a problem for you, is it?
-vvalentine
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His loss I guess...
~LuniNutz~
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You're right, it is his loss and there is nothing we can do about it except mourn for him... :weep:
Kendrilian
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FF does have pretty simple gameplay.... i still need to actually spend time on one of those AD&D games.
[edited] 249 2002-02-20 21:48
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Dungeons and Dragons is so much harder than FFVII and FFIX... compairing it to FFVIII the first time is a little different... but D&D is more battle oriented unless you have a DM who (like mine) likes confusing the crap out of you... (We play in a world alot like the Lord of the Rings.) I don't know...
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I used to play D&D with a sadistic DM, he always conveniantly forgot that my charecter was the weakest so I always fell down holes into hordes of monsters grrrrrrrrr:(
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LOL.......
If only D&D allowed you to learn spells like "Ultima".....
It would be a little humorous for someone to cast that during the game.
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*Starts thinking about developing a Final Fantasy D&D game...* I need to play more board-like games...
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com (http://www.sephiroth3d.com)
[email protected]
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I like D&D, i was playing with two DM so far .. and got to say that it was really interesting. When I got home i went to my bedroom and i was telling it to my brother as if it would be some adventure story, and he really enjoyed it. I think that i had a good DM's.
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They made a Legend of Dragoon D&D charater, called the Dragoon. It made fighters look obsolete, but it was pretty stupid since all of the names were from Legend of Dragoon and Final Fantasy VII, like Volcano and Omni-Slash. If someone makes an actual FF based D&D world that would be pretty cool.
Kendrilian
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Why I like FF games:
The summon sequences. They are really cool.
Plenty of FMVs. This is also another cool feature which PC games usually don't have too much.
Storyline. Of course. I play FF for its story line. And also new GFs, or Eidolons, Magic, fighting new bosses, mini quests, etc.
I've played Baldur's Gate for a while ... but I quit as it was rather too hard to play IMO... and I don't really like the battle system in Baldur's Gate. I'd prefer Diablo II:LOD Battle.net in killing/ adventure/ real time.
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I'd prefer Diablo II:LOD Battle.net in killing/ adventure/ real time.
Diablo... all you do in Diablo is click... left or right it doesn't matter you just click... and the faster you click that faster whatever you're fighting dies. Not my style, it doesn't require thinking...
Kendrilian
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Diablo... all you do in Diablo is click... left or right it doesn't matter you just click... and the faster you click that faster whatever you're fighting dies. Not my style, it doesn't require thinking...
Kendrilian
Try killing Diablo in D2 before you say it doesn't require thinking.
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com (http://www.sephiroth3d.com)
[email protected]
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hey don't go hitting up on d2. i's more that just killing thinks and clicking. trading is most of hat game. and while it's puzzel based and so on it's fun. i mean what about first person shooters? or star shipe fighters? basicly when you come down to it all games are stupid.
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I just got on this thread. I can't stand any other RPGs usually, because they either totally lack story, or it takes too long to get to it in them. I love FF because it has a story, but I don't think it's complicated at all. In fact, I think they are usually downright simple.
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lol. i just stand there and firewall his ass. even in nightmare he cant hurt me with his red flame.
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That's nice... Now try it with a necromancer!
Sephiroth 3D
"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sephiroth 3D.com (http://www.sephiroth3d.com)
[email protected]
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*Finally gets around to casting that "Ultima" spell*
Whoa! A one-hit kill on Diablo! Sweet!!!
:D
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Or try to make diablo with some melee player, like mine Paladin. I just have one hatchet, nothing to throw, shoot, or cast. It is little harder then. At least that i have resitances at 50.
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Druid kicks the most butt. The elemental skill tree is poor!
-Dan
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Try killing Diablo in D2 before you say it doesn't require thinking.
Well Mr. Sephiroth I am not "hitting" on Diablo at all... the begining doesn't really require that much thought... I am not putting down Diablo at all... it's the kind of game that I would play when at home sick because it doesn't require thinking. Which isn't a bad thing. Please no offense intended.
*a humbled* Kendrilian
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This is my outlook on RPGs. You can expect this to be long.
Final Fantasy is good but has a VERY stupid battle system. AD&D is an awesome RPG system with flaws that me and my friends are going to fix in our game that we are currently working on. The only problem is finding a publisher to get it out there.
FF1, FF1, FF3 sucked, period. FF4, was okay. FF5 rocked as well as FF7, FF9. FF6 is the best. FF8 was bad. FF10 is the only one I have not played so I can't say anything about it. Though the battle systems sucked in all of the games, the plots for the games are a lot better than any AD&D campaign ever created. (Including anything with Elminster you freaks...)
Diablo is a dungeon crawl. It was designed for the average American, not for some nerd like me. You think that Blizzard could have taken up some other system then mana which too many games use. And for all those people who say Diablo 2 is better than Diablo 1, I say "Umm.. No. It is still a dungeon crawl, how is that any improvement?"
The Baldur's Gate series has yet to be defeated. It is simply the best.
Me and my group of "nerds" have spent countless hours finding these flaws in other games and eliminating them. One flaw is with the fighter in AD&D. Mostly they just hack the enemy's head off and don't do anything creative like the mages. We fixed that by splitting your turn into 3 segments. You may do whatever you want in these segments. Here is an example of a turn.
A fighter spends his first segment loading his bow. He spends his second aiming. His third he fires the arrow. This allows for more creative battling.
You may defend for multiple segments to add defense bonuses when they attack if you wish.
Another point we need to make is that people with super-human powers are not common. To make a game more realistic, it should be a lot harder to level up and you won't get as many bonuses when you do.
Think about it like this. Do you get power from killing things? No. You gain experience. You learn how to deflect blows and aim better. You do not get to do more damage unless you develope a technique to hit a weak spot on an opponent.
Another point is that mages are a form of sholar. No more ELMINSTERS!
Classes should not affect your ability scores in any way. Okay, so because I am a fighter I automatically get super strength. That makes no sense whatsoever. You should have to build that strength to be able to call yourself a fighter. Or you can just spend some of the ability points in the beginning to meet the class requirements.
I will continue my arguement later. I have a meeting to discuss plot and beta test the battle system for our game now.
ADDED:
In the newer Final Fantasies, the attack animations are too long. The game becomes a slightly interactive FMV, watching Knights of the Round over and over... It gets boring.
To bring this all together, Final Fantasy has plot. That is it. AD&D has a good battle system with some flaws and has okay plot if you have a good DM. Baldur's Gate is the best so far. Diablo does not deserve to be called an RPG.
Anyone who says otherwise is an average American. Not a true nerd. Gamer does not mean you are a nerd, you just like games.
[edited] 264 2002-02-22 22:32
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I haven't played many RPGs, only FF7, FF8, FF9, Xenogears, a bit of FF6 and a bit of Chrono Trigger. My PC isn't really for gaming, and I don't think I'd be into those D&D type games.
On 2002-02-22 17:12, Intel-Itanium wrote:
In the newer Final Fantasies, the attack animations are too long. The game becomes a slightly interactive FMV, watching Knights of the Round over and over... It gets boring.
I don't know about the new PS2 FFs, but on FF9 once you've used a summon once, I think it shortens the summon sequence so it only shows the monster's attack. I can't compare it to any other games, but I find the FF sequences quite fast. Summons can be long, but if you make 2 characters attack, while one steps down form the attack the next character is already up there doing whatever you told it to (in FF8 & 9 anyway).
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Eerrrr: You're half right about the summons in FF9. The part about the first time is the full animation is correct, and while MOST of the time it displays the short animation, it will RANDOMLY do the full animation from time to time. If only I could figure out how to force it to show the long animation....
*Remembers seeing Bahamut's full animation in glorious Full-blown 3dFX Glide Acceleration for the first time*
hehehe :naughty:
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Oh yeah, I forgot, I have a friend at school who has FF10, and according to him, it also has a shortened version of each summon's animation.
[edited] 239 2002-02-23 23:01
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in ffx you can choose to shorten the opening aeon scenes. its cool, cuz you actually give your aeons commands.
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I discovered the secret to when FF9 uses the long summons, if you are on a time limit it will use them most of the time whereas in normal gameplay it won't, must be something to make the game harder for people who only use summons to beat monsters
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On 2002-02-23 18:38, Darkness wrote:
in ffx you can choose to shorten the opening aeon scenes. its cool, cuz you actually give your aeons commands.
Just wait 'till you see Bahamut's opening summon scene. I heard Yuna gets comically knocked off her feet when he lands. :D
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already beat it :)
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Maybe I should of got a PS2 instead of a spiffy PC. :z
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Intel-Itanium
FF1, FF1, FF3 sucked, period. FF4, was okay. FF5 rocked as well as FF7, FF9. FF6 is the best. FF8 was bad.
Think about it like this. Do you get power from killing things? No. You gain experience. You learn how to deflect blows and aim better. You do not get to do more damage unless you develope a technique to hit a weak spot on an opponent.
Okay about your first quote... I agree about all of it except FFVIII, but that part doesn't matter.
Yes you do get power from killing things! You get stronger when you go to a weight room and work out don't you? All you are doing is working the muscles (sp). When you kill things, since you are a fighter you should know, you swing a large, heavy, metal/wood object and if one continues doing so they gain strength... but after fighting the same-type thing over and over again you should learn how to kill them better... And since alot of the creatures in D&D are based on the same basic design (in a way) you gain techniques on how to kill that creature!
*Whew* that took alot of consentration.
Kendrilian
[edited] 299 2002-02-24 19:49
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Hey darkness, how often is the "Motion Blur" effect used in FFX? FF9 seems to have a lot of it (which is so dang cool! :D).
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First of all, that would only work for a fighter. Second of all, you don't get superhuman powers from swinging a sword. You just get improved strength.
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You can??
*Swings sword once and gains the power to leap over tall buildings in a single bound*
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theres actually quite a bit of motion blur. mostly centered around tidus. looks pretty cool.
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Intel Itanium: maybe that system of yours could be more realistic, but wouldn't it get boring ? You allways have to ballance it between real and interesting. If it would be too real nobody would play it.
And when I choose that Im a fighter, that means that i was training to be a fighter from my early age, so im stronger then average human.
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Let me put it this way. You start out at level 1. The more experience you gain from killing things, the better you get at fighting things. That is what leveling up is. Sure you get better but you don't get the power to jump over a building. You get a little bit stronger and maybe a special ability to go with that as well as some HP. Not a lot of HP but a little.
You know how I said there are 3 segments in a turn? A fighter can use 1 segment to slash upward, the second to slash downward again and the last to slash sideways. That is a real sword fight.
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Yup, it is real, but IMHO it would be Boring. Whole game would be the same. If there would be other things that would improve (special moves, abilities...) then ok.
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*gets their attention*
both of you, please repeat after me:
IT'S ONLY A GAME.
That in itself gives it a license to be unrealistic in certain ways.
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PS: that's what i was trying to explain to Intel.
[edited] 171 2002-03-01 12:11
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The strangest thing just happened. I think I found out how to force FF9 to do the full summon animation in fights that DON'T have a time limit.
First, I selected "Summon" then one of the Eidolons, then, on the menu when you select who to attack, I think I either pressed L2 or R2 (Whichever one you push to open the target window), then pushed ok to start the summon. Appearantly, you only need to do that ONCE(well, one for Eiko and one for Dagger), because ever since then, I keep getting to full summon animation, EVERY TIME.
Can someone else try it to confirm this?
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On 2002-03-02 13:15, Goku7 wrote:
The strangest thing just happened. I think I found out how to force FF9 to do the full summon animation in fights that DON'T have a time limit.
First, I selected "Summon" then one of the Eidolons, then, on the menu when you select who to attack, I think I either pressed L2 or R2 (Whichever one you push to open the target window), then pushed ok to start the summon. Appearantly, you only need to do that ONCE(well, one for Eiko and one for Dagger), because ever since then, I keep getting to full summon animation, EVERY TIME.
Can someone else try it to confirm this?
Well if I'm not mistaken only Eiko and Dagger can do that... (Full summon sequence EVERY TIME)
Yes, I think you're right goku, though I have forgotten a bit.
Now... to comment about Diablo II. You say it is click click and click and dungeon crawling. But I disagree. In certain aspects some of you are right, but you have to consider that D2X needs strategy as well. You don't go blindly in PvP and smack people; smarter people can easily beat you.
Though Diablo II is more of a click-fest, you need to think as well. You don't go whirlwinding in Chaos Sanctuary with a barb, do you?
As for D & D, I agree, they're much tougher to play. I love D & D games as well, but they take a lot of time to play. But I can tell you I hate Baldur's Gate battle system; pausing and planning attacks?
Story line wise, it rox. BG II and Pool of Radiance II seems really cool to me as well, but I don't have the time and $$$ to play them.
I've only finished a D & D once, which is an old DOS game called Menzoberranzan. Another game I like is the Ultima series. Just that they're too buggy though. One mistake, that's it..... you will never end the game..... ^_^
Back to FFs.... I love to play them because:
1. Storyline. Yeah. It is fun.
2. Cool summons.
~ Battle system in FFs are simple, yes, agreed. But try fighting Omega Weapon equipped poorly. :D
Anyway..... it's just a game......... afterall....
And you have to consider.... FFs are ported from consoles; consoles always have limited gameplay.........
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hehehe thunderstorming in hell :)