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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mirenheart on 2010-07-02 21:02:24
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This is something I've always wondered. Zack's death was voted as most memorable of TheLifesteam.net, but Aeris' death has been considered as the saddest video game moment for quite a while. What do you guys think? Aeris, or Zack?
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn285/thuthuy62/03ta8lw5.png)(http://blogs.the217.com/anothercastle/files/2008/08/aeris-kebob.jpg)
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Zack lives on, under the name Cloud, his living legacy. Aeristh died for reals, and for keeps.
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I cried so much at the end of Crisis Core... ;0; It was all like fuck off no one likes you go die. T_T
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Saddest FFVII moment?
Probably when you find out Cloud is kinda a bitch. Not at all as cool as you thought.
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Zack's death was voted as most memorable of TheLifesteam.net
F*CKING NEWFAGS!
Also, bitches don't know bout mah petrified Seto crying
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6329/setotears.jpg)
I found it much sadder than Aeris' death; it was on a par with the death of Littlefoot's mother in The Land Before Time. I seriously had to hold back the tears during this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxn1kxzwL4s).
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I dont know about you guys, but the saddest moment for me was the first time I played FF7. It was at the end when sephiroth uses supernova, and you didnt know it was coming and was nowhere near prepared for it.
Consequently, death comes knocking, and suddenly you get a creen that says.....Game Over,
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I vote Aeris. Sure, CC was good and the ending was sad, but the whole concept of CC felt like something of a cash-in, and i never really felt the things they added were needed. Idk, i didn't even like aeris when i got up to the part that she died on my first playthrough, and it still upset me.
Or i vote meryl in mgs if you give up torture :lol:
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I vote Zack. Its just like Aerith is waiting for Zack to go to her but he never accomplished it to save his best friend Cloud. That's the saddest part for me. :'(
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I really don't know why but Aeris dying really didn't affect me. I didn't dislike her but I didn't particularly like her that much. She was kind of annoying and always running off doing things on her own and I guess I kinda thought "Oh Aeris... if any sh*t happens to you it's your own bloody fault, you should have stuck with us..." and that in that sense she kinda deserved it for being that way. But that makes me feel heartless so that can't be why. :P
Maybe I was too young to feel sad about it, I was 7 when I first played it and I guess I was just like oh that sucks, it's ok she was week anyway.
My friend told me the first time he saw that scene he was laughing really hard cuz it was funny to see chibi low res models stabbing and killing each other. o.o
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I hated Aeris when she was alive for similar reasons.
When she died, I realised that I'd never see her again and never get to know her. I had abused her and rejected her all that time and now she was gone. My face:
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9253/youmaekkohakusad.png)
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I hated Aeris when she was alive for similar reasons.
When she died, I realised that I'd never see her again and never get to know her. I had abused her and rejected her all that time and now she was gone. My face:
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9253/youmaekkohakusad.png)
Tsukihime! Now that's a story that has some REAL tears in it. FFVII's story doesn't hold a candle to it.
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I felt like my mind had been raped by that game after I played the fourth route. And then again after the fifth one. Nasu seems to be very good at fucking with people's brains. He did the same thing in Heaven's Feel in Fate/Stay in the Kitchen, so I should really have known better, but I didn't... :'(
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Zack > Seto > Aerith
special note: Zack is first if we're including CC. If not, he gets placed last.
Prove me wrong
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Zack > Seto > Aerith
special note: Zack is first if we're including CC. If not, he gets placed last.
Prove me wrong
Zack was unlikeable, we knew he was going to die already, there wasn't the same dramatic setup, the music wasn't as sad and it lacked the emotion and importance to the character of the Seto scene and the symbolic importance of Aeris' death. And Zack was a faggot. Wait, I've kind of said that already... ;D
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And Zack was a faggot. Wait, I've kind of said that already... ;D
NO U!
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And Zack was a faggot. Wait, I've kind of said that already... ;D
Thank you, finally someone who has some sense :lol:
"embrace your dreams" - how about embracing my fist in your face? :evil:
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The problem with Zack was that everything was so over the top.
When a character in a story is constantly the helpless, innocent victim who never deserves any shabby treatment, I find it very hard to feel sorry for them. This isn't because I think that such characters are pushovers who should stand up for themselves (which is the reason most people give), but because I find such setups hard to believe. When a story presents one side as being always the victim and another being always the bad guy, my bullsh*t and bias detectors go off and I stop taking the narrative seriously.
His personality is also over the top, if what he has can actually be called a personality. I can no longer stand the stereotypical badass anti-hero, but Zack was such a naively optimistic goody-two-shoes that it was sickening. He reminded me of a less selfish version of Tidus. What's worse, his selflessness was done in such a way that it made him less appealing. I suppose the character closest to him would actually be Selphie; the difference is that in FF8, Kitase had the good sense to make the sickeningly sweet happy-go-lucky character into an annoying sidekick with hardly any role in the game, rather than the protagonist.
I can see what Square were going for with Zack and the way they presented what happened to him, but they laid everything on far too thickly and left me unable to feel much sympathy for him.
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damn, if only i had a ps2 to play Crisis Core... i feel left out...and chrono cross
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Zack's death isn't sad to me either. I haven't actually played CC, though.
I agree that the Seto scene is the saddest. Especially since Red XIII was my favorite character out of the party members when I first played. You don't expect that kind of revelation either. It got me by surprise.
As for Aeris, well, that's very sad as well. But I saw it coming the minute she left the party. Others will disagree, but I didn't find it all that shocking. But I must say, the dialogue after Sephiroth impaled her was quite powerful.
Isn't Crisis Core on the PSP?
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Isn't Crisis Core on the PSP?
Yes.
And the PSP can be emulated, although in order to play CC on it you'll need to do things that are frowned upon here...
Oh, and Chrono Cross is for the PSX
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i would put seto as the saddest, then zack, then sephi (final battle) cuz it means the game is over, then aeris.
As to zack's character, although over the top, I appreciated a character with some optimism and some degree of confidence. He's not the greatest example, but it was refreshing to have a little of both.
Tidus - optimizm, nothing else worth noting
Vaan - same shit diff FF
A number of good confident characters, but often lacking on the optimism... like
SOLID SNAKE and auron (i suppose auron had some optimism for the next generation, with all his story crap, hoping their stories wouldnt end like his o.o)
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Cait Sith's death, because you get a brand new one a minute after you think you don't have to brag that thing around anymore. :'(
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Cait Sith's death, because you get a brand new one a minute after you think you don't have to drag that thing around anymore. :'(
^This.
Maybe if he had been replaced by the real Reeve, we'd all like him a little better.
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My vote is on aerith over Zack. Personally I think if they ever did come out and update FF7(remake) and actually show all of her death scene(sword going through her, splattering blood and all that) it would be as shocking and sad as everyones first innocent playthrough.
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i think blood effects would take away from the scene, its become such a pristine, and innocent scene of violence, that high quality effects would influence the feeling greatly.
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I felt like my mind had been raped by that game after I played the fourth route. And then again after the fifth one. Nasu seems to be very good at f*cking with people's brains. He did the same thing in Heaven's Feel in Fate/Stay in the Kitchen, so I should really have known better, but I didn't... :'(
Did not like Heavens Feel that much, UBW was the best, because it was the only ending in which I see the Hero doesn't get massively screwed over. Well, except for the whole Grandfather paradox bit.
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I'd have to say saddest for me was Red XIII and his pops after that one Gi fight.
Happiest moment (you all will hate me) Aeris death scene :-D
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i think blood effects would take away from the scene, its become such a pristine, and innocent scene of violence, that high quality effects would influence the feeling greatly.
more like censored to me when I got a taste and idea of what it could looks like from ACC. I sorta imagine Cloud and Aerith being in their own clean and glowy world, flashes of Sephiroth descending, back to glowy world, then *SHIIK!* blade runs through Aerith, like an intruder between Cloud and Aerith.
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i think blood effects would take away from the scene, its become such a pristine, and innocent scene of violence, that high quality effects would influence the feeling greatly.
more like censored to me when I got a taste and idea of what it could looks like from ACC. I sorta imagine Cloud and Aerith being in their own clean and glowy world, flashes of Sephiroth descending, back to glowy world, then *SHIIK!* blade runs through Aerith, like an intruder between Cloud and Aerith.
I agree with Timu on this; also, blood would make the scene look like any other murder scene in an action movie aimed at teenage boys. The scene is also so stylised that realism isn't much of an issue. Nope, it works much better without blood everywhere.
Oh, and have a look at the legend of Masamune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune#Legends_of_Masamune_and_Muramasa); it's extremely relevant. ;D
I felt like my mind had been raped by that game after I played the fourth route. And then again after the fifth one. Nasu seems to be very good at f*cking with people's brains. He did the same thing in Heaven's Feel in Fate/Stay in the Kitchen, so I should really have known better, but I didn't... :'(
Did not like Heavens Feel that much, UBW was the best, because it was the only ending in which I see the Hero doesn't get massively screwed over. Well, except for the whole Grandfather paradox bit.
I didn't like Heaven's Feel because of the aforementioned mind rape :-P
I didn't much like UBW either, because I'm not particularly fond of either Archer or Rin. I actually enjoyed Fate, even though the storyline was more obvious and it was the least Nasu-like of the routes. Hmph, maybe nostalgia is influencing me ;D
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Oh, and have a look at the legend of Masamune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune#Legends_of_Masamune_and_Muramasa); it's extremely relevant. ;D
This. Not really on topic but the masamune is supposed to be a good sword right? Wonder why it was used by Sephiroth to kill innocent people.
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Has anyone even voted? "View Results" ain't showin' anythin'.
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It's showin' sumthin' for me... ???
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Ah, there we go.
Okay. Never mind then. It was nothing :)
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Oh, and have a look at the legend of Masamune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune#Legends_of_Masamune_and_Muramasa); it's extremely relevant. ;D
This. Not really on topic but the masamune is supposed to be a good sword right? Wonder why it was used by Sephiroth to kill innocent people.
I can understand what she meant that it was not supposed to be bloodthirsty. But then again it wouldn't have been able to kill Aerith in that style.
Sad to say that Cloud gets the unholy of the two.
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the saddest part in ff7 is when zack dies. but not because of zack's death.
because he egoistically pushes his own dreams onto cloud, as if trying to live on through him (as seen in ff7cc ending).
also, if you saw ff7acc, you'll know that zack desperately wants cloud to live, because he is the proof of zack's existence. that's probably why cloud is resurrected at the end of the movie (i doubt he survived that explosion).
when i saw that, it ruined all ff7 for me. cloud looks like he is merely doing zack's will, when he is not doing sephiroth's will. it really watered down the importance of cloud in the story. also, the movie makes us feel as if it's not cloud that defeats sephiroth - it seems as if zack and aeris did it.
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Zack was just there for emotional support. But the minute Aeris invisibly casted Fury Brand on Cloud, poor Sephy was screwed...
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the saddest part in ff7 is when zack dies. but not because of zack's death.
because he egoistically pushes his own dreams onto cloud, as if trying to live on through him (as seen in ff7cc ending).
also, if you saw ff7acc, you'll know that zack desperately wants cloud to live, because he is the proof of zack's existence. that's probably why cloud is resurrected at the end of the movie (i doubt he survived that explosion).
when i saw that, it ruined all ff7 for me. cloud looks like he is merely doing zack's will, when he is not doing sephiroth's will. it really watered down the importance of cloud in the story. also, the movie makes us feel as if it's not cloud that defeats sephiroth - it seems as if zack and aeris did it.
I think differently. I see it as Zack being an inspiration for Cloud to defeat Sephiroth and he does defeat Sephiroth while Meteor is still going to fall on to earth. That's when Aeris comes in. So for me Cloud defeats Sephiroth while Aeris protects their world from being destroyed. All of this wouldn't happen if Zack didn't defended Cloud till his death so Cloud is all that connects this people. :)
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Honestly, I wasn't even a little bit sad when Aeris died. I didn't like her at all. She sucked in battle and was an annoying character (at least for me).
On the other hand I liked Zach and his death in Crisis Core was sad for me.
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Honestly, I wasn't even a little bit sad when Aeris died. I didn't like her at all. She sucked in battle and was an annoying character (at least for me).
On the other hand I liked Zach and his death in Crisis Core was sad for me.
Actually I felt alittle sad that Jessie died. I think her and Cloud pairing is awesome. She'll make him go BOOM BOOM BOOM!
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in FF7 zacks death didn't effect me much, neither did aerith's. Seto's scene seemed to touch me the most.
however when i played CC, during the whole story i knew he was going to die. Yet i never stopped wishing that somehow, someway Zack would not die.
Too my disappointment he did die, and i had to hold the tears back, even though i knew this was how it was going to end.
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in FF7 zacks death didn't effect me much, neither did aerith's. Seto's scene seemed to touch me the most.
however when i played CC, during the whole story i knew he was going to die. Yet i never stopped wishing that somehow, someway Zack would not die.
Too my disappointment he did die, and i had to hold the tears back, even though i knew this was how it was going to end.
I felt the same way like you too. Although I think I could've really shed a tear there its just that I already that Zack was going to die so its like the ending was already spoiled to me.
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I know someone whose first Final Fantasy game was Crisis Core. He didn't even realize that there was another FF7. He thought that was it. So he had no idea that Zack was doomed.
It's funny, though, because he played to the end of the game and was utterly confused to no end by Zack's death. He approached me one day, said something along the lines of "you play Final Fantasy, right? You know FF7? What was up with the ending? I mean, after everything that happened in the game, he just... died in the end? WTH!?"
It confused me at first, but after some more conversation, I figured out what he was talking about, and I was like "uh... dude..."
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I know someone whose first Final Fantasy game was Crisis Core. He didn't even realize that there was another FF7. He thought that was it. So he had no idea that Zack was doomed.
It's funny, though, because he played to the end of the game and was utterly confused to no end by Zack's death. He approached me one day, said something along the lines of "you play Final Fantasy, right? You know FF7? What was up with the ending? I mean, after everything that happened in the game, he just... died in the end? WTH!?"
It confused me at first, but after some more conversation, I figured out what he was talking about, and I was like "uh... dude..."
What, a martyr ending is very classic. Joan of Arc, King Arthur, Jesus!
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Martyr endings are very clichéd and hard to believe due to the stories sounding so one-sided.
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Martyr endings are very clichéd and hard to believe due to the stories sounding so one-sided.
But Jesus and King Arthur are two of the most well known stories.
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Martyr endings are very clichéd and hard to believe due to the stories sounding so one-sided.
But Jesus and King Arthur are two of the most well known stories.
In these cases, they are responsible for the clichés rather than being guilty of them, but they're still both very unrealistic, one-sided stories.
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Martyr endings are very clichéd and hard to believe due to the stories sounding so one-sided.
But Jesus and King Arthur are two of the most well known stories.
In these cases, they are responsible for the clichés rather than being guilty of them, but they're still both very unrealistic, one-sided stories.
ITT we trivialize people who died for something they strongly believe in?
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ITT we trivialize people who died for something they strongly believe in?
How about:
ITT we recognise that things aren't as simple and black-and-white as good guys dying at the hands of bad guys for what they believe in. Leaving aside the fact that both stories almost certainly have very little basis in fact, we're only getting one side of the story in both cases. The stories say that Arthur and Jesus died fighting barbarians, but their opponents (had they cared to write about them) would have said that they were the barbarians and were no more martyrs than anyone else who died in war or was executed for political reasons.
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ITT we trivialize people who died for something they strongly believe in?
How about:
ITT we recognise that things aren't as simple and black-and-white as good guys dying at the hands of bad guys for what they believe in. Leaving aside the fact that both stories almost certainly have very little basis in fact, we're only getting one side of the story in both cases. The stories say that Arthur and Jesus died fighting barbarians, but their opponents (had they cared to write about them) would have said that they were the barbarians and were no more martyrs than anyone else who died in war or was executed for political reasons.
It wasn't all black and white for both stories. Author had his part in creating his own end (Mordrid), and had been weakening in his faith. The roman general in charge or whatever his postion was, actually didn't want to kill Jesus but had to in order to keep control of the local church and state.
I tend to read alot X3
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They're still black-and-white enough to make them hard to believe, thus reducing the amount of sympathy I can feel for them. ???
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They're still black-and-white enough to make them hard to believe, thus reducing the amount of sympathy I can feel for them. ???
Well there is that one version where Jesus told his apostles to buy swords even if they have to sell the clothes off their backs. I wonder what Jesus's apostles need swords for hmm?
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They're still black-and-white enough to make them hard to believe, thus reducing the amount of sympathy I can feel for them. ???
Well there is that one version where Jesus told his apostles to buy swords even if they have to sell the clothes off their backs. I wonder what Jesus's apostles need swords for hmm?
Maybe something to do with the thing he was executed for? ;D
Could Mr Peace and Love and I'm Such a Perfect Martyr have actually been executed for leading an armed rebellion? :P
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They're still black-and-white enough to make them hard to believe, thus reducing the amount of sympathy I can feel for them. ???
Well there is that one version where Jesus told his apostles to buy swords even if they have to sell the clothes off their backs. I wonder what Jesus's apostles need swords for hmm?
Maybe something to do with the thing he was executed for? ;D
Could Mr Peace and Love and I'm Such a Perfect Martyr have actually been executed for leading an armed rebellion? :P
I wouldn't be surprised considering he kicked around a bunch of priests and threw them out of their church.
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Could Mr Peace and Love and I'm Such a Perfect Martyr have actually been executed for leading an armed rebellion? :P
If you ever said that directly to him, I wonder what his response would be?
Probably somewhere along the lines of "go to hell" ;D
Apologies if this post is in ill-humor...
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i find it interesting how this thread moved to saddest ff7 moment, to the death's of jesus and arthur xD
and well, i don't really want to get started about all that xD
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That's what happens when threads get too conversational :P
So! Aeris and Zack, guys!
Weirdly, I didn't think the death of Aeris in the game itself was particularly sad... but for some reason, I felt sad every time Aeris showed up in Advent Children. I guess it feels more real when the graphics are that good.