Qhimm.com Forums
Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: sl1982 on 2010-08-04 01:58:45
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Seriously guys and gals this is getting a bit out of hand. This is a forum for discussion not game playing. It is starting to turn into one of the many other ff forums out there and that isn't cool. Look guys, I am not trying to prevent people from having fun but completely unrelated does not mean completely pointless. Lets have some real discussions.
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agreed :) not that I read this area.
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It IS called "COMPLETELY unrelated". If qhimm didn't want a place for unrelated discussions then that board shouldn't have been created. Besides, it's better to flood that board than one of the technical or general ones.
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Help keep the forums clean and easy to read! If you have unrelated stuff you need to post, do it here.
It says need to post, some of the stuff really doesnt need to be posted. Look guys, I have no problems with 99% of the topics in unrelated as they have some sort of point to discuss. In fact I enjoy reading much of it. Other things serve no purpose other then to increase peoples post counts.
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That's easy to solve. Just remove the postcounts :)
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Or just outright delete the threads that are considered to be pointless.
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Actually I agree with the removing post count idea. Wasn't there like a karma system that could be added to these boards? You know, where other people give you brownie points. For things that they like. Therefore removes peoples needs to start useless , such as [reference] recent "rate my brothers world of warcraft", threads.
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How about we get some real evidence that people are posting just to increase their count before removing it, hmm? I don't think that "I don't like this thread, therefore this thread has no place in completely unrelated, therefore the person must be trying to raise their post count" is entirely convincing.
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How about we get some real evidence that people are posting just to increase their count before removing it, hmm? I don't think that "I don't like this thread, therefore this thread has no place in completely unrelated, therefore the person must be trying to raise their post count" is entirely convincing.
Really? I know you like arguing just for the sake of it, but can you even come up with a good reason why the ban thread should have existed in the first place? I left the elimination threads because they do serve some limited purpose.
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I don't necessarily think people are posting just to up their count (though the ones who do/have is abundantly obvious). However, there was a point a week or so ago when it was genuinely annoying seeing all the threads in Completely Unrelated. There are thousands of other forums... the only reason I come here is for the general higher class of people, and seeing all the "game" threads was a little much.
Having some fun to break up the monotony is all well and good, but when it's ALL fun, it becomes like every other forum.
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I agree, I mean, I contributed to the annoyance, but i see the point you make.
I personally didn't post to up my count.
I posted because The only thing I can really contribute to these forums is an opinion and seeing the games and bullsh*tting threads is something relatable and easy to be involved in lol
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I only really post in Completely Unrelated because I like bullshitting with you guys. I don't look at the other forums too much. Although I do wanna change that.
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Really? I know you like arguing just for the sake of it
No, I like arguing when I see something happening on the forum that isn't right. Let's not get into arguments about who does what for the sake of it.
I'm not particularly interested in ban threads either, but it is *completely* unrelated, and the game threads aren't breaking any rules. They also keep the forums active when nothing else is happening. There's a big difference between disliking the ban threads and implying that they are the cancer that is killing /qhimm/ and exist only to increase people's post counts. Don't forget Hanlon's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor).
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How about we get some real evidence that people are posting just to increase their count before removing it, hmm? I don't think that "I don't like this thread, therefore this thread has no place in completely unrelated, therefore the person must be trying to raise their post count" is entirely convincing.
Really? I know you like arguing just for the sake of it, but can you even come up with a good reason why the ban thread should have existed in the first place? I left the elimination threads because they do serve some limited purpose.
Woah you don't like the elimination thread? Well I can delete or lock it happily myself if you want.. I just got bored with qhimms nowadays since not many interesting stuff is happening so I started that thread. Sorry for that.
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don't like
That shouldn't be the basis for locking or removing threads. Anyway, it seems that the gods have deemed your thread worthy of survival.
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This forum's primary purpose is to mod FF7, mostly to improve the game. I have never been a fan of this section for obvious reasons (this place seems to be used a lot to just piss about or piss people off). But, there needs to be some proper rules laid down and then everyone will know where they stand. It doesn't matter to me much because I don't post here and seldom even look at the topics anymore.
I just think that people are missing the point about what Qhimm's is, and it isn't a generic fool around forum. It serves a purpose. I understand that not everyone can mod or contribute but there has to be some sort of limit on any offtopic section otherwise it just turns into spam and that doesn't exactly look good for the community.
Just my 2 cents.
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I quite agree that we should always remember the purpose of the forums, but off-topic is just that.
I also don't think there's any danger of the forum turning into spam just because threads of questionable value are made here. Completely unrelated was completely unmoderated until very recently, and things didn't degrade into spam. The ban thread, whatever its value, attracted posts. Some people besides the OP seemed to like it, so it wasn't spam.
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In an ideal world, the forum software would automagically differentiate the crap from the contributions - 'knowledge leechers' from those who genuinely return the investment and try and add to the knowledge base. It would be intelligent enough to recognize which double-posts were valuable (for instance, new info about a program, or bumping a technical thread with new discoveries) and which were patently not. It would take an immediate distrust of those who came in asking yet again about DERP OF CERBERUS and that godawful compilation, put txt spk users on its watchlist and imprison Akari, offering him morsels of food in return for more wiki data. Alas, my AI still needs work (it's around 80% complete), so we'll just have to compromise.
What do I have in mind? Well, I think making unrelated a no-count board is an excellent idea. If Sl1982 is correct in suspecting it's mostly +1ing, it'll stop it dead in its tracks; if Kudistos Megistos is right that postcount has nothing to do with it, then there's no harm done, and a great way for us to differentiate technical contributors from those who use Qhimm as their own personal blogs.
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What do I have in mind? Well, I think making unrelated a no-count board is an excellent idea. If Sl1982 is correct in suspecting it's mostly +1ing, it'll stop it dead in its tracks; if Kudistos Megistos is right that postcount has nothing to do with it, then there's no harm done, and a great way for us to differentiate technical contributors from those who use Qhimm as their own personal blogs.
But what would my post count be? ;D (still well over 1000, actually).
BTW, I'd estimate the chances of those threads being designed to increase post count at being roughly 1%. When I first saw that suggested, I thought it was a joke or a purposeful attempt at justifying closing threads by making them out to be far worse than they actually are. Some people just like forum games; there's no ill intent behind it.
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I am not saying that that was the reason the topic was made, only that it is the only reason I can see a thread like that existing in the first place. Do I think that the topic was made with malicious intent? No. But I also do not think that the thread needs to be here either. I was given a responsibility to keep the forums clean around here and have to do many things that are my own judgement. In this case I did ask others opinions on what they thought of it. Anyway I or one of the other mods does things around here is not going to please everyone and I know that.
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I am not saying that that was the reason the topic was made, only that it is the only reason I can see a thread like that existing in the first place. Do I think that the topic was made with malicious intent? No. But I also do not think that the thread needs to be here either. I was given a responsibility to keep the forums clean around here and have to do many things that are my own judgement. In this case I did ask others opinions on what they thought of it. Anyway I or one of the other mods does things around here is not going to please everyone and I know that.
Everything you do is your own choice, just as it was your choice to become a mod in the first place. You don't "have to" do anything.
I've also heard that "I can't please everyone" excuse a lot recently. It's true that you can't please everyone; it's an unachievable goal, but you can make an effort to get as close to it as possible.
Ultimately, everything you do with the powers you are given is your own choice, and you have to take personal responsibility for it. A job that one takes on as a volunteer does not allow one to say that one is just doing one's job.
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I am not saying that that was the reason the topic was made, only that it is the only reason I can see a thread like that existing in the first place. Do I think that the topic was made with malicious intent? No. But I also do not think that the thread needs to be here either. I was given a responsibility to keep the forums clean around here and have to do many things that are my own judgement. In this case I did ask others opinions on what they thought of it. Anyway I or one of the other mods does things around here is not going to please everyone and I know that.
Everything you do is your own choice, just as it was your choice to become a mod in the first place. You don't "have to" do anything.
I've also heard that "I can't please everyone" excuse a lot recently. It's true that you can't please everyone; it's an unachievable goal, but you can make an effort to get as close to it as possible.
Ultimately, everything you do with the powers you are given is your own choice, and you have to take personal responsibility for it. A job that one takes on as a volunteer does not allow one to say that one is just doing one's job.
Of course it was my choice. It was also my choice to get Qhimm's opinion on the matter before I did anything about it. I am not out to make Qhimm the fall guy here though. His opinion echoed my own so I decided to act on mine. Nowhere have I tried to deflect responsibility for anything I have done on here. As for your last comment I disagree entirely. Just because one volunteers for a job doesn't mean he cannot say he is doing his job. The president of the US volunteered for his job too. Many people disagree with things he does, but it is his job to do them. (No I am not comparing myself to a president or any such thing. It is just an example)
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Nowhere have I tried to deflect responsibility for anything I have done on here.
Really? Because it often seems that way. When you keep pointing out that something is your job, there is a risk of what you write being read as "I was just following orders". I'm sorry if I misread you, but that's how it came across.
As for your last comment I disagree entirely. Just because one volunteers for a job doesn't mean he cannot say he is doing his job. The president of the US volunteered for his job too. Many people disagree with things he does, but it is his job to do them. (No I am not comparing myself to a president or any such thing. It is just an example)
I should have added a clause along the lines of "so long as there are no major consequences to abdicating the responsibility he has taken on. Actually, I thought I had; serves me right for not proofreading my posts. ;D
The president can quit his job or do things his way any time he wants, but he'd end his career by doing so.
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Really? Because it often seems that way. When you keep pointing out that something is your job, there is a risk of what you write being read as "I was just following orders". I'm sorry if I misread you, but that's how it came across.
No harm no foul.
The president can quit his job or do things his way any time he wants, but he'd end his career by doing so.
Well I am sure I would lose a bit of respect if I decided to quit because I had to make difficult decisions. Not as drastic as the president, but a concern nonetheless.
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Qhimm once "considered closing" (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=3458.0) Completely Unrelated altogether, although in the end, no (drastic) action was taken on the grounds that people enjoyed having Completely Unrelated there, even if it served no other purpose. At least, that's how I interpret that situation, which isn't too dissimilar to what we have here.
Just out of interest, how easy would it be to make Completely Unrelated a "no-count" board? Although that would more than half my unworthy post count, I actually think that's a pretty good idea. If the post count measures how much a member contributes to the forum, and Completely Unrelated is off the point of the forum, then posts in it would best be uncounted.
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In truth. I'm sure it sucks donkeyballs to mod the completely unrelated thread. Since there is no "off-topic". But you still are required to make sure none of the general rules are being broken.
I don't know exactly how the forums are modded but I would reccomend maybe moving to a "report only" moderation of the CU forum.
People will always shoot there shit.
Another option IS to eliminate the thread : Let them shoot their shit elsewhere
A third option is possibly to add some strict rules in completely unrelated, such as limiting people's ability to CREATE posts so many times in a week. That would prevent Mirenhearts games and surveys ;P (nothing personal, just noting how he dominated the CU for a while :P) in other words : Make rules for the b*llsh*t :P
Just some thoughts.
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I don't think it's even that important to moderate Completely Unrelated. The only real problem with it is that it gives people who don't contribute anything to the community a way to up their post counts. I think it makes sense that mods should have the ability to moderate Completely Unrelated so as to deal with "destructive" posts and spambots, but if posts in Completely Unrelated come not to affect post counts, then no more should need to be done.
In any case, I don't wholly agree with the "this forum is becoming just like every other Final Fantasy forum" argument. Completely Unrelated can hardly be considered to be a part of the forum. As long as the other boards maintain their quality, it will be fine as far as I'm concerned. (Who knows? Maybe, if Completely Unrelated became a no-count board, people would start putting their Completely Unrelated threads in General Discussion specially to keep their post counts going. In that case, it'll be obvious that they're in it for the post count.)
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Qhimm once "considered closing" (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=3458.0) Completely Unrelated altogether, although in the end, no (drastic) action was taken on the grounds that people enjoyed having Completely Unrelated there, even if it served no other purpose. At least, that's how I interpret that situation, which isn't too dissimilar to what we have here.
I think that having an off-topic board is good for the community. Even if it doesn't contribute directly to the goals of the forums, it contributes indirectly by keeping people interested in coming here.
Just out of interest, how easy would it be to make Completely Unrelated a "no-count" board? Although that would more than half my unworthy post count, I actually think that's a pretty good idea. If the post count measures how much a member contributes to the forum, and Completely Unrelated is off the point of the forum, then posts in it would best be uncounted.
Post counts are simply a measure of how much people post. It's dangerous to start thinking that "higher post count = better member". People can still have high post counts on the on-topic boards and not really contribute anything and people can have very low post counts and be vital. In fact, I'm starting to believe that the arguments in favour of making this a no count board are actually better as arguments against that. We should avoid anything that makes people think that high posts counts mark some users as better than others.
A third option is possibly to add some strict rules in completely unrelated, such as limiting people's ability to CREATE posts so many times in a week. That would prevent Mirenhearts games and surveys ;P
That might be the best idea, if it can be done. However, I'd rather have a daily limit; I would want someone to use up all their threads on Monday, realise they have something important to bring up, and have to wait a week before posting it.
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We should avoid anything that makes people think that high posts counts mark some users as better than others.
Problem: That's virtually inevitable. There's a natural subconscious bias against members with low post counts because they appear to be newer members, who stereotypically don't know what they are doing. Members with high post counts, however, appear as if they've been around for a while, so they're presumed experts at everything; they know exactly what they're doing at all times.
Maybe not everyone, but most members who've worked their way into the community here are predisposed to respect members more or less based on their post counts. At least, that is the trend I've observed. Am I imagining it?
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We should avoid anything that makes people think that high posts counts mark some users as better than others.
Problem: That's virtually inevitable. There's a natural subconscious bias against members with low post counts because they appear to be newer members, who stereotypically don't know what they are doing. Members with high post counts, however, appear as if they've been around for a while, so they're presumed experts at everything; they know exactly what they're doing at all times.
And we shouldn't do anything to encourage that; we'd be fanning the flames by saying that some posts are worth counting and some aren't.
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Wow, this is getting to be quite the hot topic.
I would like to clarify one thing just for my own sake. I could not care less about how people feel I am performing my "mod duties". As moderators it is up to us to make decisions based on what we feel is best to keep the forum in tip top shape. If it could be HIGHLY controversial, we talk amongst ourselves before deciding.. the GP really has no say, sorry. A nice recent example was Halkun's decision to ban discussion of ripping models. Almost no one agreed with it, but it didn't matter.
The post count really doesn't matter either. Once a member has been here a month or so, it's very easy to catch on to who the ...errr "important" members are, and who just posts in every thread they can. Honestly the post count is just as important as having signatures is.
Anywho, SL is the bad guy! Get him!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpE_STh3E8I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpE_STh3E8I)
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Jes leave completely unrelated alone. :P It's fine the way it is. If there are threads you're not interested in, just don't post in them, don't even read them. I know I'm not gonna be posting in any new Elimination games anymore (if there are any) cuz they're pretty boring to me, so just do the same if you feel that way.
This has already been said before but I would just like to reinforce it:
It's silly to think that a high post count means a good qhimm member. All it really means is that they post a lot, or have been here for a while. Besides, if you check stats in people's profiles you can see where most of their posts go. And anyone who's been here for a while knows who the "contributing" members are anyway so it's not like anyone's getting fooled.
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My two cents
I'm happy there's activity. There were a few years where nothing was going on here...
...and there was a time that (*shudder*) there was no one with mod access in here.
Now everything's hunky-dory, as long as nothing spills out of Unrelated. Talk about whatever. I'm happy with the social interaction that goes on. If it helps build the community, I'm pleased.