Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kudistos Megistos on 2010-10-07 16:22:02
-
Squeenix should really give up
Gamespot gives FFXIV 40% (http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html)
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6192/ff14launchreviews004.png)
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2841/ff14launchreviews003.png)
What's intersting about the second picture is that not a single person gave it over 90%. A poor showing indeed!
-
Seriously, if they make another MMO, it needs to be based on Crystal Chronicles. I could EASILY see that working well.
-
i think they will eventually start making only online final fantasies.
that's because there is more money to be made there. who cares about fans of singleplayer when you can earn much more on mmorpg no-lifes?
-
If they make one more online FF game after 14, I'm never buying an SE game ever again, regardless of if it's FF or not.
-
At what point did this horrible transformation of square/enix begin? as far as I know each of these companies produced primarily for the fans before the merger and were happy with making tens of millions, likely hundreds of millions of dollars. FFX i thought was the beginning of the end since the fans were pretty split on whether they liked it or not...i guess the younger fans won and since then Squeenix has been producing for those mindless idiots who think pretty colors and asburity are what makes games good. Money + Stupidity = everything wrong in the world today.
-
Square Enix still makes all sorts of great games, it's just the Final Fantasy series that's started sucking. Dragon Quest IX kicked ass, Space Invaders Extreme kicked ass, and Kingdom Hearts II kicked ass.
-
At what point did this horrible transformation of square/enix begin?
The horrible transformation happened when they joined. Square raped Enix and the result of that night of passion is the deformed demon baby that is Squeenix
-
That's pretty shocking considering the ridiculous fan service that can't wait to slap 10 on a FF game....
-
Too bad you guys couldn't submit the mods here to game review magazines. "FFVII: Qhimm Remix 10/10 FFXV -6/10"
-
I don't know why they decided to get into the MMO business, I tried XI and hated it and played a bit of XIV and hated it as well. It's a shame that they're both in the main series. I like Covarr's idea though, a CC MMO might actually turn out to be pretty cool.
As for where the FF series is going, I love X-2, LOATHE XII and love XIII. So for me, the quality is pretty sprodiac (but it's always been) so wheter or not I find the series is going downhill will depend on the quality of the next FF game.
-
The horrible transformation happened when they joined. Square raped Enix and the result of that night of passion is the deformed demon baby that is Squeenix
Kudistos you always have the most...colorful of interpretations...
-
At what point did this horrible transformation of square/enix begin?
The horrible transformation happened when they joined. Square raped Enix and the result of that night of passion is the deformed demon baby that is Squeenix
I remember being abused on one forum for saying that but unfortunately it is absolutely true. After FFX (imho the last brilliant FF game), we started having a huge shift in the number of games being made and the quality went the other way. We had spin off cash ins of VII by the bucket full, we had remakes, and then we had what I feel are disasters, FF12, FF13, FFX-2. I remember with Square, when you bought Final Fantasy, you KNEW it would be quality and you would be hooked.
Then Hironobu and Nobuo jumped ship, Enix merger... bye bye.
-
The horrible transformation happened when they joined. Square raped Enix and the result of that night of passion is the deformed demon baby that is Squeenix
Kudistos you always have the most...colorful of interpretations...
That's pretty bland by most of his comparisons.
-
Heh. The series the company murdered left behind spin-offs... to haunt us all!
-
i personally don't consider ff12 a disaster. merely an unfinished game. i like how different and non-mundane it is.
after merger, squeenix started releasing games developed by other companies, e.g tri-ace or vanillaware. actually some of those 3rd party games are pretty decent. and in comparison their own in-house games look pretty bad.
-
The horrible transformation happened when they joined. Square raped Enix and the result of that night of passion is the deformed demon baby that is Squeenix
Kudistos you always have the most...colorful of interpretations...
That's pretty bland by most of his comparisons.
Awww, sowwy to disappoint you.
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1700/01f.png)
I'll come up with something more colourful next time, OK NFI-kun?
Then Hironobu and Nobuo jumped ship, Enix merger... bye bye.
I think the loss of some of the most important members of the Square team isn't mentioned enough when people talk about why the compnay jumped the shark. It's the same with the decline in quality of the Simpsons. The original writers, the people who made it great, aren't all there any more. How could it possibly be as good if the people replacing them aren't equally brilliant?
-
Yeah and Sakaguchi made a pretty decent attempt with his new team, for the game Lost Odyssey. He was obviously a bigger part of Square than some people gave him credit.
-
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-final-fantasy/705893
OMG! Absolutely terrible, I think the question is no longer "can square regain there former glory?" rather "is that company still in business?".
Such a shame I have such font memories of Square games Ahhh...warm glow of the picture tube snacking on my assortment of junk food. This simple fan girl is very disappointed in the latest events :x!. In fact giving that I dont really like most FF games on has to wonder was FF7 a fluke?
-
I don't know why they decided to get into the MMO business, I tried XI and hated it and played a bit of XIV and hated it as well. It's a shame that they're both in the main series. I like Covarr's idea though, a CC MMO might actually turn out to be pretty cool.
As for where the FF series is going, I love X-2, LOATHE XII and love XIII. So for me, the quality is pretty sprodiac (but it's always been) so wheter or not I find the series is going downhill will depend on the quality of the next FF game.
dun kill me for saying this but i actually liked XII a bit, i hated the story and the characters were... well lame, but i actually found myself enjoying battle and the amount of grinding i had to do to get 100 percent
-
I don't know why they decided to get into the MMO business, I tried XI and hated it and played a bit of XIV and hated it as well. It's a shame that they're both in the main series. I like Covarr's idea though, a CC MMO might actually turn out to be pretty cool.
As for where the FF series is going, I love X-2, LOATHE XII and love XIII. So for me, the quality is pretty sprodiac (but it's always been) so wheter or not I find the series is going downhill will depend on the quality of the next FF game.
dun kill me for saying this but i actually liked XII a bit, i hated the story and the characters were... well lame, but i actually found myself enjoying battle and the amount of grinding i had to do to get 100 percent
The battle system in XII was fantastic. It had no business being called Final Fantasy, but it was fun.
The dungeon layouts, on the other hand, were very "needs improvement".
-
I don't know why they decided to get into the MMO business, I tried XI and hated it and played a bit of XIV and hated it as well. It's a shame that they're both in the main series. I like Covarr's idea though, a CC MMO might actually turn out to be pretty cool.
As for where the FF series is going, I love X-2, LOATHE XII and love XIII. So for me, the quality is pretty sprodiac (but it's always been) so wheter or not I find the series is going downhill will depend on the quality of the next FF game.
dun kill me for saying this but i actually liked XII a bit, i hated the story and the characters were... well lame, but i actually found myself enjoying battle and the amount of grinding i had to do to get 100 percent
The battle system in XII was fantastic. It had no business being called Final Fantasy, but it was fun.
The dungeon layouts, on the other hand, were very "needs improvement".
don't remind me, my friend and i had to grind in thoughs mines with all the skeletons, and i absolutely hated that place, i also liked how characters standed slightly differently from eachother with weapons, so one character holding a 2-handed sword stands differently from another character holding a two handed sword, still, i'd like to see a game with great dungeons and an awesome storyline, using XII's battle system
-
Yeah... big surprise...
I knew 14 would suck balls. I absolutely despise all kinds of MMO. Hearing 14 would be one was a disappointment. The music and graphics are the only things good with this pile of s**t.
The 1st time I was sceptic towards a FF, was with 10. Tidus can go f**k himself, the voice acting was awkward and the overall design was messed up. But it was still a good game imo. X-2 sucked monkey balls. I must admit the gameplay was quite good though.
11 was... well, a mmorpg. One of the better ones (mmorpg not FF) imo, but still a mmorpg.
12... you probably think I'm gonna say it sucks, but it doesn't, so I won't. :x I can understand where the hate comes from, on the basis that change creates hatred ,but, still, it doesn't suck.
Imo 12 was better than 10 for a number of reasons: The lack of that "anime feel" most of the FFs have (story, design, characters etc). Vaan is less annoying than Tidus. 12 got better overall design. 12 has better voice acting. 12 is less linear.
But there are problems with 12 as well: Like wtf is Vaan and Penelo doing in the story? Random treasures, wtf? Why the hell shouldn't the player start with all gambits and 12 gambit slots? Why can't I control the guests or the espers?
But, hell, I can come up with multiple problems with all FFs. If you dig deep enough the true sh*t will eventually emerge.
13... haven't played yet. But I don't like the overall "anime feel" I get by looking at it. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate anime, I just can't stand the design and the in most of 'em. It's so effin awkward. Wtf is up with those huuuge eyes?
14... I'm not gonna try it. Really, I couldn't care less about it.
I bet 15 will be a game targeted at 12-16 year olds who loves anime. It will have an emo lead character who got nothing to do with the main story. I am hoping squeenix, however, will make a bit more mature FF sometime. If the designers of the next FF get inspiration from Berserk or Conan the barbarian I wouldn't mind. :evil:
-
Wtf is up with those huuuge eyes?
Big eyes are kawaii!
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6622/angryosaka.jpg)
-
In both 10 and 12, there are characters who are utterly pointless.
In 10 we have Tidus, despite being the primary player character he could actually be removed from the game with little effect, since the plot is actually about Yuna and her journey.
In 12 you could dispose of Vaan and Penelo because the game is more about Ashe and her story.
10, 12 and 13 were 3 of the worst JRPGs of the last 10 years, in both 12 and 13 I actually gave up part way through because I was so fed of playing the damn games, I got the Judges fight on the Airship in 12 and was so underleveled I had to spend hours grinding only get back up there and still get my ass handed to me, in 13 however the game is so damn linear and the characters so damn shallow/dull/rehashed from previous games(mostly rehashed from VII infact)/annoying that I just could take it.
As for 11, I felt is was a good lesson in how now to make an MMO, boring combat that tries to emulate earlier menu driven FF games in an MMO universe, the worse interface I have even seen in a game outright, we have a mouse let us use it for fucks sake, the game is also a massive grind, in the time it takes to get your first couple of levels in FF14 you've already hit 10+ in most other MMOs, a long boring grind is not a substitute for longevity.
14 from what I've heard is little more than a streamlined version of 11, they've simply fixed up the graphics slapped a new world in, kept the boring grind and not even bothered properly testing the game since I'm hearing reports of regularly falling through the map and broken battles.
-
>Stuff about Tidus not being important in the story of FFX
...what?
I'm not understanding any this FF10 hate to be honest, there isn't a single character that doesn't have a really good story behind them. Fair enough, the voices were a bit hit and miss, but they'd never done voice acting in an FF before - you can't expect square, as good as they were, to have gotten everything 100% perfect the first time.
-
I do not believe Tidus can be removed in the story mainly because he has lots of ties like his father being sin and he is being helped by Auron and his father and Auron and Yuna's father are friends. It adds little drama to the story so no Tidus just makes the game incomplete.
-
Wtf is up with those huuuge eyes?
Big eyes are kawaii!
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6622/angryosaka.jpg)
Azumanga Daioh... Good times, funny show! ;D
In both 10 and 12, there are characters who are utterly pointless.
In 10 we have Tidus, despite being the primary player character he could actually be removed from the game with little effect, since the plot is actually about Yuna and her journey.
In 12 you could dispose of Vaan and Penelo because the game is more about Ashe and her story.
10, 12 and 13 were 3 of the worst JRPGs of the last 10 years...
You could in theory remove Tidus from 10 and still have story. The story wouldn't make much sense as it is now if you do however (or maybe make more sense :-o). Annoying and wimpy as he is, it's still his f***ing story.
10, 12 and 13 worse than, lets say, Enchanted Arms? I haven't played 13 yet, but nooo...
I'm not understanding any this FF10 hate to be honest, there isn't a single character that doesn't have a really good story behind them. Fair enough, the voices were a bit hit and miss, but they'd never done voice acting in an FF before - you can't expect square, as good as they were, to have gotten everything 100% perfect the first time.
There were more miss than hit in this one. At least in the English version. And I don't think anyone were expecting 100% to be honest. It's still a valid effort.
-
In both 10 and 12, there are characters who are utterly pointless.
In 10 we have Tidus, despite being the primary player character he could actually be removed from the game with little effect, since the plot is actually about Yuna and her journey.
While yes, vaan and penelo can utterly be removed from the story, I wouldn't quite say the same of tidus in ffx. You could take him out completely, and have a very similar game, perhaps better, perhaps not. Tidus did at least, have some effect on other characters, and allowed for the world of spira to be easily illustrated in a "fish out of water" style. He also provides some contrived inspiration for other characters, and plays into a somewhat insignificant romance plot.
vaan and penelo.... really do nothing for the plot. the extent of their involvement is vaan fucking everyone over numerous times by being a loudmouth, and penelo gets kidnapped, giving an excuse to have all the cast chase after her. after the first segment or so of the game... they cease being in most cutscenes... thats how important they are.
-
I wonder who would win the competetion of being the most hated and useless main character
The top 2 picks are definitely Tidus and Vaan, personally Vaan leading.
I mean seriously, what makes SQX think we want to play as some sort of overgrown vermin?
Thats not to say that MOST Final fantasy lead characters have their issues.
-
I do not believe Tidus can be removed in the story mainly because he has lots of ties like his father being sin and he is being helped by Auron and his father and Auron and Yuna's father are friends. It adds little drama to the story so no Tidus just makes the game incomplete.
An incomplete game is better than a complete one with that whineyass bitch. I think that when FF6 fans call Cloud an emo, they're getting him mixed up with Tidus. Since both have spikey blond hair, it's easy to see how they might get confused.
-
Removing Tidus still leaves about 99% of the plot intact, Jecht and Auron would still be linked, Jecht would still have been a Guardian, but yeah Tidus can easily be removed with little plot changes.
-
Well, I tried the beta of FF XIV the best I could, and the only thing I really liked was the music. At least Nobuo still knows how to make something good.
-
I would have tried XIV but then I read about the feature that starts reducing your XP gain after you played for a couple of hours until it hits 0, I think the only thing you can really do after that is either crafting or log out ans un-install the giant steaming turd of a game.
-
I wonder who would win the competetion of being the most hated and useless main character
The top 2 picks are definitely Tidus and Vaan, personally Vaan leading.
I mean seriously, what makes SQX think we want to play as some sort of overgrown vermin?
Thats not to say that MOST Final fantasy lead characters have their issues.
I wouldn't consider Vaan the main character in 12. He is ass much main character in 12 as Terra is in 6. I guess in each 6th FF there'll be difficulties pointing out a lead. Not counting MMOs of course.
I've heard people say Lost Odyssey is FF10 true follow-up. Well, in LO you you're half party is in theory useless to the plot, except for the parts they're introduced etc. FF6 got tons of "useless" characters. FF7 got some as well.
-
dun kill me for saying this but i actually liked XII a bit, i hated the story and the characters were... well lame, but i actually found myself enjoying battle and the amount of grinding i had to do to get 100 percent
No, I don't mind if other people like it, it's just not for me. I found the battle system too slow for me and the amount of grinding you had to do ridiculous. So, as I didn't like the gameplay and the story and characters couldn't compensate for it, I just... really didn't like it.
-
I wonder who would win the competetion of being the most hated and useless main character
The top 2 picks are definitely Tidus and Vaan, personally Vaan leading.
I mean seriously, what makes SQX think we want to play as some sort of overgrown vermin?
Thats not to say that MOST Final fantasy lead characters have their issues.
I wouldn't consider Vaan the main character in 12. He is ass much main character in 12 as Terra is in 6. I guess in each 6th FF there'll be difficulties pointing out a lead. Not counting MMOs of course.
Generally, to me the main character is the character I start out with ( lets forget abotu Reks for a second here ) and which I have to look at in the field ( most of the time ) in battle ( most of the time ) and whose annoying personality I have to endure for most of the game. Vaan very much fits thats descriptions.
I will never forget SQX for taking away Basch's role as main character and giving it to the "player-can-relate-better-to" moron Vaan ( as it was stated, that was the reason they shifted the story from Basch to Vaan )
I've heard people say Lost Odyssey is FF10 true follow-up. Well, in LO you you're half party is in theory useless to the plot, except for the parts they're introduced etc. FF6 got tons of "useless" characters. FF7 got some as well.
-
I wouldn't consider Vaan the main character in 12. He is ass
Agreed.
-
Whether Terra is the main in FFVI is a subjective matter, true, but you still gotta admit she is the best suited character for the role. You can't remove Terra and have the same storyline, it's impossible. The entire World of Balance revolves around her, and she is an essential part of the ending credits. This is not the case about Vaan at all (the guy is 99% useless). That was some weird comparison, Joe. :?
-
The dissapointment never ends...
http://technabob.com/blog/2010/09/17/final-fantasy-xiv-computer-peripherals/
-
Whether Terra is the main in FFVI is a subjective matter, true, but you still gotta admit she is the best suited character for the role. You can't remove Terra and have the same storyline, it's impossible. The entire World of Balance revolves around her, and she is an essential part of the ending credits. This is not the case about Vaan at all (the guy is 99% useless). That was some weird comparison, Joe. :?
Yes I agree. The way I worded myself was supposed to be a joke :P. He is an ass of a character compared to Terra. Though some obviously are worthy the title more than others, I still don't consider anyone a main character in 6 or 12.
And to stay on topic: FF14 sucks...
-
Oh dear, oh dear. Things aren't looking very good for Squeenix
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1859/metacritic.png)
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/final-fantasy-xiv-online
I had some lulz reading through the user reviews and seeing all the shills and butthurt fanboys giving it a ten. Even most of them didn't seem very impressed with it; it was obvious they were exaggerating their score just to bump up the average.
-
Look at the cover...i just wanna ask that guy, "Who the **** are you, and what association do you have with Final Fantasy?" I mean, i thought some recent characters in the series were pretty generic, but that guy doesn't look cool or unique at all. WHy would i wanna play this game?
-
It follows in the grand tradition of horribly bland American boxarts. I bet the Japanese box looks a lot nicer.
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1fQKQSzPFi7GSBh8YX7YaJ_OsxLZKSUeAGdb9MjxRvqMPXkU&t=1&usg=__retG09LYWYMKb3ErB0_qXO9Sc_8=)
I don't know if this is what the Japanese boxart looks like, but even though it looks nicer, I don't think it will make up for how poor the game appears to be. It might sell more copies becuase it looks nicer though heh.
On a side note, that 'horsebird' we heard about...I think this is it. What has this world come to?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnDW2OjqRj8fmv5D5gcezKrRN05yvG-51jxUjfpHPKnmddmks&t=1&usg=__7IoxgXLbXQMjiW_Ago8yMUYyo8M=)
-
this is reaching new levels of disappointing
-
Next, they're going to remove cactaurs and tonberries. and then it won't even be final fantasy anymore.
-
Next, they're going to remove cactaurs and tonberries. and then it won't even be final fantasy anymore.
Final Fantasy hasn't been Final Fantasy for a long time.
-
Next, they're going to remove cactaurs and tonberries. and then it won't even be final fantasy anymore.
Final Fantasy hasn't been Final Fantasy for a long time.
Sad but true. It is FF in name only these days. And does anyone here know why they are called Tonberry? The japanese does suggest ton and berry...
I have never understood the name.
-
Next, they're going to remove cactaurs and tonberries. and then it won't even be final fantasy anymore.
Final Fantasy hasn't been Final Fantasy for a long time.
Sad but true. It is FF in name only these days. And does anyone here know why they are called Tonberry? The japanese does suggest ton and berry...
I have never understood the name.
While I kinda agree, I wouldn't rush statements like this. Who decides what a true FF is? The fans? Then who are the fans? The ones who likes the true FFs?? Who has the right to decide? Is it an objective observer, the developers, the creators... Or is it decided by gameplay and/or design. In that case, one could argue that FF4 isn't a true FF.</unnecessary philosophy>
-
It isn't a true Final Fantasy game to the fans who've been following the series, and have become attached to the earlier games. Because FFXIV is so different (and so bad), many would argue that it isn't a true Final Fantasy game because it seems to deviate so far from Final Fantasy tradition.
-
The only FF games I'd argue aren't true FF games are the online ones.
-
Well FF 13 isn't strictly speaking an RPG. Not in the sense that you need to have proper towns, proper battle system (not AI), shops and so on...
an RPG is a list of criteria, not just "role playing". And when gameplay is second fiddle to story, there is a problem. There should always be balance.
-
I suppose there's a belief that a series' identity is not undermined by continuous evolution, but can be heavily undermined by sudden, massive changes in areas such as gameplay or in terms of less tangible ideas such as the "spirit" of the game. It's reasonable to say that such a revolution has happened in FF.
I mean, if someone's personality changes slowly (evolves, if you will), you'd say that he's still the same person. However, if his personality suddenly changes overnight to the point where he is unrecognisable, you'd have to ask yourself whether he's really the same person that he was before. You might even doubt whether someone is the same person they used to be if the changes are slow but still huge.
Of course, this debate is all just philosophy, a subject where actual answers are rarely found and intellectual masturbation is the order of the day, so maybe we should go no further.
What can be said with confidence is that there is some "quality" that used to belong to Final Fantasy games that has been lost. Exactly what that "quality" is, and whether its loss is important enough for us to say that the series is now FF in name only, remains to be seen.
-
It would be interesting to compare views of different groups of FF players. For example, what do those who started with FF1 and played through the whole series think versus what players who started with FFVII, or FFX think. I imagine that those starting with earlier games view current FFs as more of an atrocity than those who began later in the series. FFVII is perhaps a unique case for a variety of reasons that you can all imagine. Those who started with FFX probably think that FF is better than ever and look forward to future "improvements" to the series. Those who's first encounter with Cloud and Sephiroth was in KH or Crisis Core probably think FFVII's Cloud is gay and Sephiroth not as cool (or something idk, just speculation now). I started with VII and hadn't really played any RPGs before that. However, I made sure to go play the previous games (mostly due to the time between FFx+1 releases).
My personal opinion is that most all of the FFs were awesome with no game-ruining flaws. I loved FFIX and played it many times, but there were a few issues that left a bad taste in my mouth. Zidane wasn't as cool as previous main characters, but I shouldn't have been so critical since Tidus was his successor. Then my PS2 broke and i got an Xbox. Years later I found that I really had no interest in newer FFs. I played half way through XII, started XIII but didn't do much with it (partially because I didn't have long-term access to a PS3). FFVII is still, and always will be King for me though. Fine-tuning it here makes it even better. Ideally I would like to experience FVII 'for the first time' again, and modding is the closest thing to that.
Another important distinction, I think, is to be able to assign these titles a grade based on “Is it a good game?” and a different graded based on “Is it a good Final Fantasy?” Many of the newer games qualify as ‘good games’ although I wouldn’t call them “excellent games,” but certainly do not qualify as “Good Final Fantasies.”
*side-note* @Kudistos, What are studying/is your profession? I ask because you seem to have a fairly good grasp on many psychological concepts, and are also able to explain things in a psychological way. That is what I’m going to school for, but much of what I ‘know about psychology’ wasn’t taught to me. I was just curious if you’ve had any formal schooling in psychology or if most of your perspectives are just due to some naturalistic intelligence and/or respect for the empirical method :)
-
It would be interesting to compare views of different groups of FF players. For example, what do those who started with FF1 and played through the whole series think versus what players who started with FFVII, or FFX think. I imagine that those starting with earlier games view current FFs as more of an atrocity than those who began later in the series. FFVII is perhaps a unique case for a variety of reasons that you can all imagine. Those who started with FFX probably think that FF is better than ever and look forward to future "improvements" to the series. Those who's first encounter with Cloud and Sephiroth was in KH or Crisis Core probably think FFVII's Cloud is gay and Sephiroth not as cool (or something idk, just speculation now). I started with VII and hadn't really played any RPGs before that. However, I made sure to go play the previous games (mostly due to the time between FFx+1 releases).
I'd say that FFX is actually the last of the old games. The most noticeable change has been that from a traditional, turn-based JRPG to a game that's closer to real time and has more of a "Zelda with three people" feel.
I also doubt that there's much of a difference between the way people who started with 7 will see the direction the series is going in and how people who started earlier will see it. FF7 is definitely one of the "old" games now, no matter what the SNES fanboys and bandwagon jumpers may say.
That said, there's a chance that people who joined FF with X might see things differently if we suppose that they only played one main series game before the style change and didn't get hooked on the JRPG style. They may have started with an old-fashioned FF, but they didn't have time to get used to it.
On the subject of how people whose first experience with Cloud wasn't FF7, I've noticed a huge difference between how the old FF7 fans see him and see the characters and story as a whole, and the way the fans who joined later on see things (I'm thinking mainly of those whose first experience with FF7 was AC or CC).
Another important distinction, I think, is to be able to assign these titles a grade based on “Is it a good game?” and a different graded based on “Is it a good Final Fantasy?” Many of the newer games qualify as ‘good games’ although I wouldn’t call them “excellent games,” but certainly do not qualify as “Good Final Fantasies.”
This is an important distinction to make. None of the hated FF games would have got the same amount of flak if they didn't have FF on the cover, and not just because expectations would be lower.
*side-note* @Kudistos, What are studying/is your profession? I ask because you seem to have a fairly good grasp on many psychological concepts, and are also able to explain things in a psychological way. That is what I’m going to school for, but much of what I ‘know about psychology’ wasn’t taught to me. I was just curious if you’ve had any formal schooling in psychology or if most of your perspectives are just due to some naturalistic intelligence and/or respect for the empirical method :)
I have absolutely zero formal training in psychology. I am somewhat trained in philosophy, however (there's a lot of overlap), and Classics (Oxford degree in Literae Humaniores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literae_Humaniores)).
-
Your opinion on FFX seems to be the general concensus. I can agree with that for the most part. If the FF series started as a sunrise and the middle games in the series were a bright and sunny afternoon, I think that FFX is the sunset right before dusk. Yeah, it is still daytime, but it isn't as bright or warm as it was earlier in the day. On that note, recent FFs are a cold, damp, autumn night. I just hope that the FF series has no winter season and instead goes from autumn to spring.
It seems a strange phenomenon that FF players who began with VII (it was a massive influx of players) seem to have gotten that "FF feeling" and felt it in a way similar to those who had played previous FFs. This means it should be possible for that feelings to exist in the new games as well. It is not there though. I think that the changes in decision-makers in Squeenix intentionally molded FF into what it is today. In this sense, FF is dead. I think its time to stop the CPR and grieve.
@Kudistos Ah, the Philosophy background. Just another shining example of the fact that everyone should be educated to some extent on Philosophy (and Psychology), and not just things like Algebra, Civics, Biology, etc. (although not everyone learns about these things even). As an undergrad had a minor in Philosophy, although it was probably nice to study at Oxford. It seems like there are nothing but Hermoors in some of my classes.
-
@Kudistos Ah, the Philosophy background. Just another shining example of the fact that everyone should be educated to some extent on Philosophy (and Psychology), and not just things like Algebra, Civics, Biology, etc. (although not everyone learns about these things even). As an undergrad had a minor in Philosophy, although it was probably nice to study at Oxford. It seems like there are nothing but Hermoors in some of my classes.
They need to study it to some extent, yes (philosophy in particular would be helpful to modern populations whose critical thinking skills are poor). However, I'd say that humanities subjects work better as minors rather than majors.
-
They need to study it to some extent, yes (philosophy in particular would be helpful to modern populations whose critical thinking skills are poor). However, I'd say that humanities subjects work better as minors rather than majors.
Humanities in general, yes I agree. Psychology is "behavioral science." It just gets grouped with humanities and people's connotations of Psychology seem to incorporate some idea of Freud and Oedipus Complex/Penis Envy etc. Contemporary Psychology is not very much like the idea that most people have. Also, i meant students should be taught Philosophy and Psychology at a basic level in middle and high school so they can learn to think about things and also learn about what is going on behind thoughts/emotions/opinions. Personally, i believe the human species is beyond repair, but thats not what we're talking about heh.
So...FFXIV has been panned by critics and users. Interesting.
Edit: Well I may have discovered something that will cause XIV to be a huge success! []Mature Content[] http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-09-16/ffxiv_miqo_te_nudity_mod_emerges.shtml#ue_pic []Mature Content[]
-
I refuse to even buy 14. I refuse. I agree with most of you here when i say, I despise mmo games. Especially mmorpg's.
I never played 12 or 13, but once again. I dont plan to.
I tried 11, and it was a complete disgrace, if it wasn't for the previous FF's. I would have lost all respect for Square.
Now before i say what I am about to, lets get something straight. I hated both X and X-2. The thing i wanna get across is that Tidus may not seem like an important character and can be removed, but he isnt! I have seen and heard many people say this, My family, friends, on other forums, and right here. ON A PURELY FF FORUM?! Come on now people. Tidus is the son of Ject. Now if you all can think back, Ject is like God is this story line! Ject is Sin. The only reason Yuna goes on her journey, is to defeat Sin. Sin being Tidus' father, is somewhat important. He is supposed to fight his father for the sake of the world along side Yuna.. Now am I the only one in the WORLD that see the significance Squeenix was trying to portray here?
Now about IX... I bought it. I played it for a day or so. And I don't know exactly what it was, but something rubbed me the wrong way. So wrong I had to put the game down before I tried to file for a restraining order.. So that game is somewhere in the depths of my closet. If it was a good game, I apologize. I also didn't really care for the whole 'little people' thing. No offense if anyone here is, or knows somebody who is a 'little person'
Ahh yes. Final Fantasy VIII. I am sorry you die hard 7 fans. This one was most definitely my favorite. Actually it is my favorite game in general. Everything was great. Especially the story line, it was the perfect balance between The fight for the greater good, maturing/growing up, of course the love inside of it (everyone knows about Squall and Rinoa, I know I am not the only one that noticed Zell and his library girl, Irvine and Selphie maybe? Cid and Matron! Laguna and Julia, and Raine!! the list goes on =] ) Quite possibly my favorite part of the game, and I know that this is a very controversial thing so please don't attack me for it. But I just loved the new junction system, I was very saddened that square never used it again ]= FMV!!! Need I say anymore about that? Well I will. They were stunning. Especially for their time. Yes VII had great strides with the graphics and such, But VIII really doesnt get as much credit as it deserves since everyone was waiting for something to blow them away from VII like VII did from everything else, yes it was an improvement. But we asked for too much from Square and expected more after how well VII was made compared to everything else, there are limits people! I feel as though I am going to far with talking about VIII so I will stop here, even though I could go on for hours =]
VII. It was great. As I just previously stated, nothing like it was out at the time. No game even came close. Everything was astonishing. This game came out when I was just a wee lad (9 to be exact =] ) and Tifa was my little boy crush for the longest time XD hehe VII is always talked about, everyone knows how great it was, so I don't feel I need to spend anymore time on this.
And I will end at this, instead of going further back in time I will stop, as I know this is a very long post, and after all this typing I would be devastated if it got deleted or nobody at all read it ]=
EDIT: By the way, I do apologize for such a long post to those who can't help but read everything like me =]
-
I refuse to even buy 14. I refuse. I agree with most of you here when i say, I despise mmo games. Especially mmorpg's.
I don't despise MMORPGs. I just despise paying every month for a game I already bought. I'm loving Lord of the Rings Online, because it's free. I just can't afford to invest over $150 a year in a single game.
-
@endlessdamage
First of all, you should go dig IX out. Based on your preferences, I can understand why it may have been difficult to get into, but it was quite good. It was a bit slow in the beginning, but the game is simply trying to adequately develop the characters. If you don't like it, at least try zoning out and mashing the X button until you make it to Lumbridge (here you can actually start making decisions), and if you can't get into the game at that point then you may as well put it back away.
We can probably all agree that VIII was excellent. Of course some enjoyed it more than others, and some enjoyed it more than VII...i guess we can allow this. The junction system was pretty fun, although I feel like Square could have done a lot more with it (specifically how, idk...but it feels that way). I don't really think people should be allowed to compare VII an VIII though. Well of course they are allowed, but both games were incredibly unique and both quite good. They both stood on their own merits which were pretty distinct from one another. Junction-Awesome, GFs-Cool, Limit Breaks-Fun. I won't bother saying what is good about VII, except that the materia system will always hold a special place in my heart. Someone should calculate the actual # of combinations sometime.
Don't bother with XII or XIII, especially considering what you've told us so far.
I don't hate MMOs...but i acknowledge that they are evil. Abrupt Ending...NOW!
-
These damn discussions always send us all on rants :P
I agree that VII and VIII shouldn't be directly compared, as they were both great, unique, and greatly unique.
The only real problem I saw with the junction system, was that no matter what level you were at, if you got a hold of the right magic, the game became way too easy. The only real thing I could think of to better it would be to only have certain magics unlocked depending on what your level was. I know that people will disagree with this, and not to sound like a d*ck or anything. But I don't really care XD I liked it, that is my opinion.
As for the MMO's, I completely agree with your "evil" statement. No offense to anybody, but I especially couldn't stand WOW. I felt like they were trying to baby everyone through it, and all I wanted to do was play the game. I used to like these mass online games. I am not exactly sure what turned me away, but it was most definitely between 3 games that ruined it for me. WOW being the first, FFXI, and last but definitely not least COD. Call of duty was great in the beginning. And by the beginning I mean only the first one. Then there were all these little kids, glitches, somehow someone always found a way to cheat. That pretty much ended my online career. Well with one exception. I happen to be addicted to Madden games =] But I guess this last little section here probably belongs in some other forum entirely, but it somewhat pertained to our discussion.
[END OF MINI-RANT]
EDIT: I know COD doesn't really fit in there, I was merely explaining which games turned me away from the online world. I was merely giving my reasoning.
-
I know you guys love bashing squenix, but you need realise that being an online RPG, it will be constantly updated, for the next 10 years or so.
Now I agree the game shouldn't have been released in its current state, but Squenix have even already detailed a patch that fixes a majority of the issues that reviewers and players mention, that will be released in a few weeks. They have also extended the free trial period.
If you guys actually read the reviews, you will find the important things such as story, graphics, the class and battle systems, are actually good.
The major gripes are with the horrible interface and menus, the economy, the maps. These are things that can, and will, be fixed.
-
I know you guys love bashing squenix, but you need realise that being an online RPG, it will be constantly updated, for the next 10 years or so.
uhh yeah, just like ff11 on ps2.
-
i know i'll get bashed, but again, i actually liked XIII, i was uber-pissed it was so bloody linear and you could only use one character in the party, but for some unkown reason, i did enjoy playing it. maybe it was the idea of using thoughs style transformation thingy's (dun remember what there called) but i loved the idea that strategy was needed against bosses, and at least it didn't end the game after the final boss. i like games that let you keep playing after.
-
The boss fights are the biggest reason that I really enjoyed XIII. It feels like the game is designed with sort of a "trial run" mentality, where you are pretty much expected to lose against a boss your first time (or more) and in fact not even try to win so much as try to develop a strategy. It seems that the time investment in bosses is about the same overall as in other games, but it's more focused on repeated attempts that are either failed or completed in under a minute each, as opposed to a long, drawn-out survival-fest where the goal is just to not die for ten to fifteen minutes, healing when needed and attacking when possible as seen in most other FF games.
It's really interesting to me how whether you win or lose, you do it quickly. In that sense, I feel this would be a good game for speedrunning, because of the way a good strategy is infinitely more useful and faster than grinding.
Although, I also loved XII, I enjoyed the story, thought the MMO-style battles were fun, and was only slightly put off by the bizarre and broken difficulty curve.
In fact, the only FF's that I've played and didn't like were I (crap story, crap game balance), II (crap story, pain in the ass memory system), and X (shoddy camera/controls, nothing else is really too terrible, but not good enough to make up for that damn camera). In fact, XIV seems to have taken some cues from II, with its emphasis on menu navigation interfering with the game itself.
-
In fact, the only FF's that I've played and didn't like were I (crap story, crap game balance), II (crap story, pain in the ass memory system), and X (shoddy camera/controls, nothing else is really too terrible, but not good enough to make up for that damn camera). In fact, XIV seems to have taken some cues from II, with its emphasis on menu navigation interfering with the game itself.
Okay, you can't really bash one and two. seriously now. Think about when those games were made. They couldn't really develop those games to the extent they should have been.
-
Hmm, it seems that we've almost made a full 360 now. Any comments about the last few posts I could make, would probably include points that have already been made previously. The "good game" versus "good final fantasy" arguement comes to mind. I have to agree with Covarr about the boss battles in XIII though. I only fought like 5 of them, but they were surprisingly challenging the first time around. That was refreshing. I feel like I would love XII and XIII if I had never played VII or VIII (and others).
-
In fact, the only FF's that I've played and didn't like were I (crap story, crap game balance), II (crap story, pain in the ass memory system), and X (shoddy camera/controls, nothing else is really too terrible, but not good enough to make up for that damn camera). In fact, XIV seems to have taken some cues from II, with its emphasis on menu navigation interfering with the game itself.
Okay, you can't really bash one and two. seriously now. Think about when those games were made. They couldn't really develop those games to the extent they should have been.
I can bash them, because they're not fun anymore. They simply haven't held up the way other, earlier games have, such as Space Invaders, or Super Mario Bros. Besides which, I and II have been remade repeatedly, and the remakes aren't terribly fun either, usually suffering from most of the same problems. Hell, even Final Fantasy III for the NES was a lot better. It didn't have much story either, but they finally got the gameplay right, balanced, and generally fun. I know, it was made later than the first two, but they still had the same limitations of the system to work with.
-
Just because a game is no longer fun doesn't mean that it wasn't good at one point in time. Yes they don't compare to Mario Brothers, but they were quite arguably the greatest games of all time. For any age, even if you aren't a gamer. Remakes? Seriously, when was the last time you played a remake that was actually better then the original? Also I and II were in the utter infancy of FF obviously, them being the first 2 games. There is a thing called trial and error, in order to see what the public wants and likes. You need to try out different things. In my opinion they didn't really know where they were going with FF. It was just one last 'umpf' if you will, to get the company moving.
EDIT: I love Mario Bros, but it isn't fun anymore.. I figured out all the little secrets and shortcuts and all that fun stuff, and now the game is way too easy. Which makes it no fun anymore.
EDIT (yes again =] ):When i said "arguably the greatest games of all time" I was speaking of Mario Bros and Space Invaders.
-
(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/lostwingx/BackCoverffvii.jpg)
I think this sums it up. *coughignoreanythingthatdoesntlookrightcouch*
Yes it says couch.
-
I am sorry to say we have gone off topic ]=
This was meant for XIV, yes?
-
to be honest, i wasn't planning on playing XIV anyway sinse i don't like "serious" MMOs, but from everything bad about that you hear now, i would probably punch someone if they offered it to me :P
-
Squeenix's stock over the past two years:
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1672/96842years.png)
Over the past five years:
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5272/96845years.png)
They're in twouble!
-
They should have made the FFVII remake many years ago, when people actually wanted it (by people I mean FFVII players). Now its too late...well not for them to make money, but too late for them to make anything resembling a good game. The rest of this post has been aborted due to imminent cognitive shutdown aka i'm too tied to finish this.
-
I think people would still eat up a FF7 remake. It's not too late, if they make one that plays faithfully to the original. The Kingdom Hearts series, and Space Invaders Extreme, have shown they still know how to make a good game. Just the recent FF games have been getting screwed.
-
They should have made the FFVII remake many years ago, when people actually wanted it (by people I mean FFVII players). Now its too late...well not for them to make money, but too late for them to make anything resembling a good game. The rest of this post has been aborted due to imminent cognitive shutdown aka i'm too tied to finish this.
i agree. ff7 wouldn't look to flashy back in the day, but at least it would have good gameplay.
nowadays square games are focused on visual presentation. if you can put that aside, there is little left that still draws you to the game. i remember being hooked to ff7/ff8. also ff12. but ff13, for instance, is just a game to me. i can put it down and not play it for a couple of weeks. that was unthinkable with older square games (for me).
-
I think people would still eat up a FF7 remake. It's not too late, if they make one that plays faithfully to the original.
They won't... they said as much. They want to make everything HD and are not prepared to put the time in to remake VII. Ironically they were conceding that these days they settle for second best as long as graphics are good they couldn't give a toss.
I hope they don't remake, because Senix these days is more money driven than ever and will not do the game justice. It will be an over-the-top graphic fest, dumbed down for casual gamer.
On the plus side, I could look at the translation and burgle parts.
-
At this point I would settle for a game that had an identical materia system (i never played CC so idk how its materia was) to FFVII. Materia is always fun, in Dirge, Ehrgeiz, anything else it may have been in...but I have always wanted a newish game with the full materia selection and a similar method of setting it up. Why, why is this system only in one game? The same goes for the junction system. I mean, a blank game that contained nothing but a track to obtain materia or magic, and equipment to put it on with generic battles/story/graphics would still be a good game.
-
I think people would still eat up a FF7 remake. It's not too late, if they make one that plays faithfully to the original.
They won't... they said as much. They want to make everything HD and are not prepared to put the time in to remake VII. Ironically they were conceding that these days they settle for second best as long as graphics are good they couldn't give a toss.
I'm not saying they will. But if they do eventually get around to remaking the game, it'll most likely be done right. As a whole, their remakes have generally played faithfully to the games they've been based on, just look at FFIVDS.
-
Yeah but none of those have been on hardware which allows for the same freedom as the PS3... since games have gone onto next generation consoles with the power of the PS3, the quality has gone down while the graphics have gone up....
-
I would disagree that FF have been going downhill in quality.
While they don't have that "wow" factor they used to have, they're not the only rpg game in town as we've all played hundreds of games. It's harder to impress people who've played RPG's for well over 10 years than newcomers to the genre.
FFX was pretty good even though Tidus sucked. FFXII was a horrible mistake since the game could have been so awesome. Only a few tweaks could have made it the best ever story-wise (no Vaan and Penelo, an ending that made sense, more political intrigue). And XIII (not finished yet, nearing the end of disc 2 - or for the ps3 player i'm getting people out of prison) is pretty good so far even though the "on-rails" comment are somewhat justified but that's not very different from most games out there. I do miss the world map though. Made things look so much more ... grand.
I wouldn't say new FF's are bad game at all.
-
I would disagree that FF have been going downhill in quality.
While they don't have that "wow" factor they used to have, they're not the only rpg game in town as we've all played hundreds of games. It's harder to impress people who've played RPG's for well over 10 years than newcomers to the genre.
FFX was pretty good even though Tidus sucked. FFXII was a horrible mistake since the game could have been so awesome. Only a few tweaks could have made it the best ever story-wise (no Vaan and Penelo, an ending that made sense, more political intrigue). And XIII (not finished yet, nearing the end of disc 2 - or for the ps3 player i'm getting people out of prison) is pretty good so far even though the "on-rails" comment are somewhat justified but that's not very different from most games out there. I do miss the world map though. Made things look so much more ... grand.
I wouldn't say new FF's are bad game at all.
ff12 story left a lot to be desired. but the gambit system was an awesome improvement, which eliminated a lot of boring stuff from the game (repetitive battles).
ff13 sucks because it is so damn linear that it is ridiculous. and it feels more like simplified ff12 battle system with ffx level up system. you can jump around when exploring areas, but only in select zones.
-
I didn't think gambits were awesome at all. I think that is the single worst system I have ever seen short of full AI. The idea of a game is to actually play it. Watching your characters mindlessly slash about because you added a poxy "fight if HP >2000" is not my idea of well thought out. I made it through 12 with 2 gambits fight and cure. That's it.
If a game with turn based strategy requires you to keep pushing X it is not because the system is flawed but because the difficulty and the design is flawed. There are numerous things in 7 that keep you occupied, from enemy skills to summons, all of which you choose. X was a step forward because you could even control the summons.,
12 was a step back because it took control away from you and 13 was the joke of the planet because it took 2 characters away from you completely and even had an auto fight option.
Dumbed down springs to mind.
-
I believe 12 has a great gambit system just not a lovable cast. I hate it how games look so good on trailer and when the gameplay comes up it sucks.
-
13 was the joke of the planet because it [...] even had an auto fight option.
Obviously somebody didn't play a lot of XIII. Auto fight is useful for grinding (which never required anything more than mashing X anyway, even in earlier games). You try to use it on a more difficult enemy or boss, it's a surefire way to lose. It's also impossible to succeed without putting significant thought into what paradigms you have; I spend a fair amount of time in the menu examining and switching up my paradigms between battles, especially after losing against a boss and preparing to try again.
XIII had plenty of strategy where it needed it. Personally, I think the battle system was one of the few things NOT wrong with the game. It felt like a second try at XII's gambit system, except this time they got it really right.
Although I'd be curious about the idea of giving actual control of more characters in other games. Imagine one person with two humans in Left 4 Dead. Difficult, at least.
-
Now we are drifting through a sea of opinions. I don't know if the gambit/auto-fight stuff makes it a worse game, but i know I didn't really enjoy my time in the menu of XIII. I also never learned to like the 'track' leveling systems. To me they are simply an illusion of customizability.
If a game with turn based strategy requires you to keep pushing X it is not because the system is flawed but because the difficulty and the design is flawed. There are numerous things in 7 that keep you occupied, from enemy skills to summons, all of which you choose. X was a step forward because you could even control the summons.,
This is pretty much how I feel. But DLPB makes a good point, "...all of which you choose.'' In VIII I loved the idea of Using the Mysterious Lamp to get Diablos, Fighting Tonberries to get the King, Doing a puzzle and battle for Odin, Pheonix Pinion, etc. Maybe I'm just a side-quest whore.
-
This is pretty much how I feel. But DLPB makes a good point, "...all of which you choose.'' In VIII I loved the idea of Using the Mysterious Lamp to get Diablos, Fighting Tonberries to get the King, Doing a puzzle and battle for Odin, Pheonix Pinion, etc. Maybe I'm just a side-quest whore.
I completely agree with this. I love having mysteries/puzzles to try and figure out. It makes everything even more interesting and much more complicated then just the battle strategy and where to go next.
-
ff13 sucks because it is so damn linear that it is ridiculous. and it feels more like simplified ff12 battle system with ffx level up system. you can jump around when exploring areas, but only in select zones.
I don't really mind linear. Or free roaming. Either have their strong points.
JRPG's to me have always been more about watching an interactive visual novel than anything else. In that regard FFXIII is stellar.
And the battle system is 10 times better than XII although so far (same point as original post) I sure wouldn't say it's hard. A team with a commando and a sentinel with a medic/ravager beats pretty much anything I've seen so far ... Rarely have to use anything else ... and I surely haven't died 30 times.
-
FF 14 sUX0rzzz even tho I never playd it!?!?! Rabble Rabble Rabble!!!!
Edit: That was uncalled for, Sorry :(
-
.
-
Well in Advent Children Cloud either a. Had a lobotomy (oh jeez how is that spelled), or b. His schizoid personality disorder took over killed his affect. I prefer to pretend AC was just a dream...just like all of you.
-
So I'll never play a remake of FF7 because it will feature Emo Cloud, Asian Tifa, it won't have any swearing, cross-dressing, gay gyms, Don Corneo won't be a pervert, Vincent won't be creepy, Red XIII will take himself seriously and no one will make fun of him for it, and a million other things will be wrong because it will be made for 7 to 14 year olds who love modern anime. And I bet they'll simplify the Materia system for them too.
There's no way this is right. Chances are, if the game ever actually gets remade, it'll be for handheld systems, done by TOSE, and feature pretty much everything in the original game. Dialogue might be somewhat reworked and retranslated, difficulty will be balanced, and an extra optional dungeon will be added.
TOSE does pretty much all of S-E's remakes, and they ALWAYS follow this formula.
-
.
-
Let's hope he is right becaue otherwise the remake will be shit