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Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 02:00:16

Title: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 02:00:16
This isn't tech related.  Moved and warned.
oook. I disagree since I'm trying to figure out which is better to work with since the PC version is for the most part, a conversion of the playstation files to barely work on the computer end where as playstation is harder to mod.
Would you please care to explain why you think it was not tech related and even if I agree that you are correct, why I should get a warning when I used my best judgement of where a topic on the inner workings of FF7 psx/PC goes. I believe that is a bit unfair when all that was required was a subject move. I haven't made repeat offenses so it isn't like that is an excuse.
I'm not made, I'm not downcasting your decision, I'm just wondering what your processing was for this event.
Title: Re: Rules, and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-08 02:35:31
Tech related is for discovering things about the workings of games (Final Fantasy, Xenogears, etc).   I've moved some topics to their appropriate place and i've left some where they are because I'm too lazy/annoyed to move them.
Basically, I'm tired of keeping this place organized, so you get to be the example of sorts.  So maybe, just maybe, more threads will be created where they are supposed to be.

Also, we can give out warnings for whatever reason as long as we deem it to be in the best interest of the forum.  There was a time not too long ago when at least 75% of the people here were warned/moderated.

Also, you are mad, and it's obvious.. calling me out in public and whatnot.  Your warning will go away in a few days, and I promise all of your internet friends will still like you.

/bad day
Title: Re: Rules, and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 03:24:27

Sorry you had a bad day. And no I was not calling you out in public or being mad. Just trying to figure out what was going on. This whole public thing was initially just me being a dunderhead going "Huh, ok what happened?" and typing there and then.

I've been trying to read the wiki on the differences between the PC and the PSX version and this thread is basically about which one is better for modding. PC is easier just cause we have so many programs yes. But I'm questioning if it would be better to try and take apart the psx version.

So basically I'm trying to find out which set of resources to use. Files on the PC version or Files on Playstation version. Basically the internal workings of either version which would be better to work with to gain a final product/mod. You know like how Q-Gears was supposed to use the resources from FF7 CD's just with a new engine. Which resources would be better to work with in the long run or should I consider just leaving things moduler?

So let me see. I disagree and was in the right catagory. You for whatever reason, don't even want to bother taking a breather when you are having a bad day and picking on the little guy. You admitted the bad day part yourself. Qhimm is not a job, it's a passtime. Take a break, have a beer, unwind before making decisions. Cause now what has happened is that you made me out to be an example of, you misunderstanding a thread, trying to put up a sign to other users to not do something that I didn't even do in the first place, and still providing enough quotes and statements to show you are in a bad mood and want to take it out on someone.

I'm here trying to help you guys do stuff that hell, most of you wouldn't bet to touch on. Why, I get paid enough doing security work to sit on my ass at home all day to either teach myself stuff, work on FF7 stuff, or draw. So I could either try to help, or just go off and do my own thing. So why attack me on all the little questions I have to ask.

First post I was just curious, after your last post, now I'm annoyed. But I stepped away and am in control. I'm not calling you names, insulting your intelligence, doing anything uncalled for. Basically how I read your post is someone kicked your dog and you're doing stuff you don't want to do. I'm just pointing out that you need to hit your pause button, meaning go have a beer, smoke, do whatever it takes to chill out. Look in the mirror and think how it'll be seen from the other side of the deal before making a decision. This isn't a battle, you have the time to do that. That's the lesson I had to learn with that incident with my "Aggressive behavior" towards another member on this board. At that time, I believed that was called for just as much as you believe giving me a warning was.

I'm putting this up and out in public not to throw this whole incident on you. Yes perhaps I worded my thread where you thought it meant different then what I'm thinking and understanding so we're probably going to have to but heads on that so at this point, that subject will be null and void. But what I am requesting is that everyone, all members that do read this, take the time to step away from the computer if you are angry. Do something to relax yourself. Then go back and respond.

I can predict quite a few responses I can get. Up to you, I wipe my hands of it. That's my point of view, need not to rinse and repeat past this.

A smirnoff helped, but by god I want two cigs right now. Horrible year to have quit.
Title: Re: Rules and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-08 04:16:10
Dude, just chill a bit.  This is the internet.. something happening on a Final Fantasy forum should not drive you to need a drink and have a smoke.  Sometimes people have to be made the example of, this time it happened to be you.

Let me describe the pros of what warning you has done:  Any of the dozens of new guys who are around will see what happened to you and try to really think about where they should put posts, and hell if we're lucky they may even browse the rules!  Now for the cons of what warning you has done (initially): you have a little green thing under your user info that says "watched" for like 2 weeks.  And finally what the cons are after the initial warning phase: you've gotten upset and even taken your own thread off topic (see: grounds for a warning).  Yes there were/are much better examples of people posting in completely wrong places, but yours happened to be the thread I decided needed moving and was the final straw.  It's either warn the occasional member when multiples of the same mistake are being made (this way everyone notices and quits temporarily), or warn everyone constantly which wastes a lot of my time and also causes a lot of complaints.

I realize being a moderator looks like I'm some sort of supernatural He-Man, a king...a GOD even ;-) but really I'm just a dude who does basically the same stuff everyone else here does day to day.  Except when I log on here I also have the added task of keeping things orderly.

Split and moved to Completely Unrelated.

TL;DR the internet isn't serious business.   
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 05:32:42
The drinking and smoking we just examples of taking a break. Besides I'm having a cranky day too and that is how I chose to deal with it.

I'll just stick with my old post and of the same opinion. But let me state something clearly, I think you are a coward that won't fess up to doing something stupid. This is not using me as a warning board and if you honestly think all that you posted, you are f*ckin trippin snorting bullsh*t.

And no, I don't have respect for you. I don't have to show respect just cause you've got your highseat and want to show off just like any moronic teacher, politician, boss or just an idiot in charge in general. Fine you're right, sure after two weeks the sign disappears and all this is over. But I think it's rude and wrong that I got it in the first place because you want to "make an example". Of what, you being an ahole when you want to be. Cause that is all you have proven. On no grounds was my thread wrong, nor did I deserve a warning.

I have respect for certain members of this board and staying on board with helping out in trying to crack the game. But I'll call you a sh*thead while I do it. And if you have a problem with me and want to do something about it, I'll just take it higher then you authority. I'll just put it out in public so that I can continually spit in your face and let everyone see it. Cause that is what I'd be doing in real life. Feel proud that you can hide behind a computer. But I will eventually drag you're worthless ass out in the light for everyone to spit at. So you can either toss me out, or prep for war sh*thead. Cause along with my ff7 projects, I'm commin gunnin to get you removed from your moderator position.
=================================
Oh and before you start whining about how hard it is to be a moderator or that I don't know what a moderator does. Guess what, I run a guild in guild wars, 4 on gaiaonline, admin on my own forum, so on so forth. One of my recent issues was one of my moderators who like you was a hard worker but not always the brightest guy. I had to threaten to kick him out, for trying to delete his ex wifes account cause he was having a spat with her. He's lucky he didn't know I modded the board so that everything is put in a temp folder and has to be looked at by me before being deleted. He's taken the problem off the board and hasn't tried pulling bull since. I know how to moderate and admin. I do not cute any moderators or adminastrators any slack for being moronic.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Cupcake on 2011-02-08 06:01:45
I run 4 guilds on gaiaonline

So you take the online world too seriously, got it.

Seriously dude, chill, you're getting way fucking out of line.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 07:00:22
I run 4 guilds on gaiaonline

So you take the online world too seriously, got it.

Seriously dude, chill, you're getting way f*cking out of line.
Cupcake, I respect you, you're a cool guy, but this is not me out of line. Him putting a warning on me, moving my thread, and then not fessing up or fixing the situation, is out of line. It is my ultimate pet peeve and the worst way to get on my bad side to label me something I am not, which is what obesebear did.  When the whole thing of me chewing out Dark_Ansem happened and I got a warning for that, yeah I had my say of I thought it was appropriate. But I did accept that judgement because it was abit excessive (Although through PM's that DAnsem initiated that wasnt anyones business of how I answered him). Not so in this situation. I'm being nice about this too by only keeping things to the board. The last time I got "Out of line" the new boyfriend of my higschool sweetheart lost use of the fingers on one hand. Painfully and deliberately. Was it an accident, not enough evidence to say. He had the choice to place his hand on my car when the hood was up. One little wiggle and slam. No mo digits. Abit excessive? I believe it used to be required a thief gets his hands cut off. He only lost four fingers that were reattached though not very usable. So right now, me making things very public on the board of me making a smearing campaign against obesebear for him putting a smear on me is very, very fair. I wouldn't go beyond that nor care to put in the resources to. He could easily call this off by rethinking the situation, apologizing, and removing the warning on my account that shouldn't be there in the first place. It's simple, but yet he's spoiled into thinking that because he's a moderator, he doesn't have to do the little things. I say screw him, I don't bend over and take crud like that. I take the punch when I've deserved it like in many other situations, but screw anyone that thinks they can do so otherwise.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Utgårdsloke on 2011-02-08 10:39:41
Hermoor here, this sounds like fun. Let's put and end to this dictatorship and introduce a bit of anarchy. Free this boards from the no life admins supressing the development of good mods. Send me a pm on youtube if you are interested Furzball, if not good luck :)
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-08 10:57:00
(http://www.suplexcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/picard-facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: nfitc1 on 2011-02-08 12:18:45
[facepalm img]

ditto.

Title: Re: Rules, and etc
Post by: hotdog963al on 2011-02-08 12:30:38
Basically, I'm tired of keeping this place organized, so you get to be the example of sorts.  So maybe, just maybe, more threads will be created where they are supposed to be.
Perhaps staff should recruit some additional lower-ranking mods to cleanup rogue threads. I'm sure some people would be up for that. It would mean you wouldn't have to sting the majority of the userbase with warnings and it'd avoid threads like this being created.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-08 13:01:36
Hermoor here, this sounds like fun. Let's put and end to this dictatorship and introduce a bit of anarchy. Free this boards from the no life admins supressing the development of good mods. Send me a pm on youtube if you are interested Furzball, if not good luck :)

For a second, I thought that this was someone (probably Matron Orlha) pretending to be Hermoor.

Then I googled Utgårdsloke and found out that he spelt it wrong (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utg%C3%A5rdaloke) (at least in Swedish; in Danish, it would be fine, but he doesn't think the Danes are real Scandinavians, so he's unlikely to be abiding by their spelling rules). This conforms Hermoorishness: only he would misspell his own name.

I am, however, surprised that he would criticise the mods; they have been on his side over the past few months, so I thought he'd like them. Then again, Hermoor always did bite the hand that feeds him.

As for the rest of this thread, I have only one acronym: lol
Title: Re: Rules, and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 15:37:16
Basically, I'm tired of keeping this place organized, so you get to be the example of sorts.  So maybe, just maybe, more threads will be created where they are supposed to be.
Perhaps staff should recruit some additional lower-ranking mods to cleanup rogue threads. I'm sure some people would be up for that. It would mean you wouldn't have to sting the majority of the userbase with warnings and it'd avoid threads like this being created.
Agreed. There's enough good members on the board to trust with moderation powers. That's another option in this.

Yes I'm going to still be doing my work on FF7. Right now seeing if I can take Yuffies two trap areas and copy past one over the other and using the remains of the other one to essentially use as a new map if I can figure out where to put it and how to access it. Inner programming is kicking my butt. Floor mapping I'm somewhat figuring out.

But I will also be setting up a campaign on
-ideas and suggestions to help with the workload on moderators; then getting those into action
-looming over moderators shoulders and being a 2nd opinion. Alittle more on fatbear then the others.

I've noticed it with some other threads people have made where mods move or delete it though it seemed to match the catagory just cause the dude was typing poor english, or the moderator doesn't get the goal of the thread. I think that moderators should consider giving a chance and making a warning post on a thread of why they think the thread should be moved/deleted. That way the OP can answer if they agree with the moderators decision or if they disagree state their case.

I know this is not a democracy, I know the moderators have been put in charge for a reason. But don't spit in the face of the site members while you're doing you're duties. It'll just piss everyone off. Think of it as being the good boss that everyone wants to work for versus being the douchebag boss everyone hates. You may get the job done, but people will constantly be looking at you as a jerk boss. Can you get the job done and not step on as many toes. Yes. It just requires a few extra steps around the subject.

Today while I'm working  on things I'll be making a list on what my goals should be on this site splitting it between working on ff7, helping sort out any messes on the board, and my own personal goals. I'm going to have to do some things like at the bottom of every OP I make in my threads write a paragraph summary of why it belongs there.

Speaking of which fatbear still has not explained why he believes my previous thread didn't belong in tech related. He stated what does belong in tech related, I told him how my thread matches the terms, and yet fatbear doesn't answer. You know, just sayin.

Really my whole analstick on this event is fatbear did not do his job. From my point of view, he took a thread that had nothing wrong with it or where it was, moved it, and put a watched status on me. Labeling me basically as someone who is trying to ignore board policy. I accepted that on the dark ansem affair only cause I deserved it then. This time, didn't do the crime now I'm doing the two week time and have it in my record. Is it serious, not really, just a nonsense warning that will have no effect later. I'm just pissed that fatbear is not giving case as to why he is correct, gave him three chances of that and he has still failed to provide evidence that in some way I deserved his slap to the face. Not only that but that he thinks it's just right to willy nilly do this stuff without consulting or assisting the the people he's "cleaning up after".

Why am I coming down hard on fatbear. I'm very tired of seeing mods that just use their functions without taking the time and using the basic functions of double checking before you cross a street. So fatbear, it's not just about you, I'm just making you a sign to any other mods. :)
Oh and I explained a logical reason for my actions, where's yours.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-08 15:53:58
Hmmm, though you are clearly insulting/mocking me and my decision, I do find a slight amusement in watching you fall apart while others sit on the sideline and laugh/facepalm.  So I will likely leave you free to whine and complain.  But here's your warning, if it starts to get annoying you will be moderated/muted/banned.  Reasoning with teenagers...sheesh.

However, I regret to inform you that I cannot continue participating in this trolling/baiting.  Since I am supposed to uphold the rules, obviously I can't go around breaking them all willy nilly.  But please, do continue.

Side note: New Hermoor is banned again
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 16:56:22
Hmmm, though you are clearly insulting/mocking me and my decision, I do find a slight amusement in watching you fall apart while others sit on the sideline and laugh/facepalm.  So I will likely leave you free to whine and complain.  But here's your warning, if it starts to get annoying you will be moderated/muted/banned.  Reasoning with teenagers...sheesh.

However, I regret to inform you that I cannot continue participating in this trolling/baiting.  Since I am supposed to uphold the rules, obviously I can't go around breaking them all willy nilly.  But please, do continue.

Side note: New Hermoor is banned again
===================


Lol, look at you.  I mean really, just take a step back and look.  Your profile says 23, but I remember being 23 and I know I didn't act like you are acting.

Since this is in the trashcan I suppose I can continue this conversation on your level.

1.  I'm not pompous, in fact being in charge around here is quite annoying because though I love this site, being the one to keep it clean is a thankless hassle besides whatever personal gratification I can scrape from it.
2.  I'm not an asshat, but even if I was I imagine that would be better than being an immature prepubescent virgin.
3.  I'm not fat.  In fact I could quite easily steal your little girlfriend away from you, or your mom, or whatever female you think loves you.
4.  I'm not positive (and too lazy to check), but I think you threatened to harm me physically.  Best of luck there killer.  Maybe you didn't notice the Eagle Globe and Anchor for my avatar?
5.  ???
6.  Profit


In trash for a reason cause i decided to stay on board to help with trying to crack ff7 on things like making new areas. But since you so kindly wanted to answer
1. moderating jobs are made thankless cause of people like you. see my bosses example above. Still the same accomplishments, non of the thanks. Maybe you should think about your process more then the results.
2. well fine cool. We've both have had sex with girls and passed puberty. Woop de doop. I didn't call you immature I called you moronic which is code for dumb as a marine. Moving on to which.
3. Actually an idiot like you would have poor luck outside of rape with the women in my life. neandertholic marine thought process. But if you want one you can have the crazy black bitch that is threatenning to castrate me for Fudumpping her.
4. or that marine symbol. Lemme see. 3 of your playmates got tossed out of a bar by yours truely. And yes they were fighting back. All I got was a gash on my arm, two of your buddies stayed in the hospital. Too lazy to list other examples. Marines aren't worth shit it's all hey diddle diddle right down the middle. Marines tend to send out their boys to be killed rather then bringing in artillary. You all have so much pride for your history, your branch is the one with the highest percentage of KIAs. I'd take army, airforce, and navy any day over the dumb rocks in the marines.
5-6: lost your steam there buddy. A little writers block? Had to resort to a meme. Yup, not much gray matter up there.

Sounds like you're a 40-50 on the asvab scale while I was an 82 when I was too lazy to study. What are you, foot soldier? The recruiters wanted me in intelligence.

So let's see, I'm smarter then you, don't have to resort to cliche's or memes, and don't take shit from you. Yeah I can see why you're pissed.

Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-08 19:27:21
I think this has gone on long enough. If people cannot be civil I am just going to delete this whole damn thread. Furzball stop acting all butthurt, obesebear you should be above this type of thing.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-08 19:31:22
I think we'd be better off archiving it for posterity. Lock it if you must, but there's too much valuable stuff in here.

The problem with deleting threads is that people can pretend they didn't say the things they said and avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Thread like these are also valuable tools for learning about the other sides of people's personalities; we wouldn't want to lose the insights we've gained.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-02-08 19:31:43
Both of you!  Stop it this instant!  This is my job and I retired  ;D
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-08 19:41:20
Ahem.

This thread is silly enough. But what's worse is that we're missing a good opportunity to properly discuss the thread category rules, and how difficult it is for new members to judge what goes where. It's very nice for us to write newbies off as stupid teenagers, and gratifying to flame those who won't read the rules, but in practice, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces, creating a massive workload for ourselves that sap moderator time.

Now, I'm not really yet qualified to call myself a technical author, or a user experience champion. But I can tell you this: it's far better to redesign your interfaces and web forms, and assume your logic is arbitrary / unintuitive / obscure, than double the support calls / admin work you endure. If our categories and rules aren't immediately obvious, they're probably confusing. Rather than marching towards Furzball's ban, let's discuss how we can avoid these problems in future.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-08 19:43:10
Both of you!  Stop it this instant!  This is my job and I retired  ;D

Unnnnnn...you should come out of retirement, Seifie-kun. That would be so entertaining!

Ahem.

This thread is silly enough. But what's worse is that we're missing a good opportunity to properly discuss the thread category rules, and how difficult it is for new members to judge what goes where. Whilst it's very nice for us to write newbies off as stupid teenagers, and gratifying to flame those who won't read the rules, in practice, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces, creating a massive workload for ourselves that sap moderator time.

Now, I'm not really yet qualified to call myself a technical author, or a user experience champion. But I can tell you this: it's far better to redesign your interfaces and web forms, and assume your logic is arbitrary / unintuitive / obscure, than double the support calls / admin work you endure. If our categories and rules aren't immediately obvious, they're probably confusing. Rather than marching towards Furzball's ban, let's discuss how we can avoid these problems in future.

That's what I said a long time ago. I was ignored.

However, it is nice to see how well the "use mod powers first, ask questions later" policy has turned out. We can see how successful it has been in creating a civil, usable forum.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-08 19:52:21
Well. If something comes out of this that will better the board then all I have to say is my work in this subject is done.

But I agree with Kudi, the whole shoot first ask questions later, is not a policy that should be taken onto forums. I'll take a poke around and maybe write up a "newb" POV of what goes where based on what I'm reading. I welcome anyone to do the same and we all post it in one thread. That way we all get where eachother is coming from on this issue. Using those articles it may be possible to review the rules and descriptions, making them more member friendly.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-02-08 19:55:37
Ahem.

This thread is silly enough. But what's worse is that we're missing a good opportunity to properly discuss the thread category rules, and how difficult it is for new members to judge what goes where. It's very nice for us to write newbies off as stupid teenagers, and gratifying to flame those who won't read the rules, but in practice, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces, creating a massive workload for ourselves that sap moderator time.

Now, I'm not really yet qualified to call myself a technical author, or a user experience champion. But I can tell you this: it's far better to redesign your interfaces and web forms, and assume your logic is arbitrary / unintuitive / obscure, than double the support calls / admin work you endure. If our categories and rules aren't immediately obvious, they're probably confusing. Rather than marching towards Furzball's ban, let's discuss how we can avoid these problems in future.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-09 00:34:44
Well, I logged on perfectly happy and ready to mute Furzball, but since this thread has taken a constructive turn, I'll let it slide.

Shoot first ask later is how I've been trained and lived my life for years.  Complaints about it? Too bad.  That's why we also have Halkun who seems to be the ultimate pacifist, and sl1982 who's somewhere in between the two extremes.
If I happen to catch you, sucks to be you.  If it's Halkun, you lucked up.  And if it's sl.. it's a gamble.
Consider the current "argument" dropped.

As far as changing the site...Clearly everyone besides sl and Bosola ignored this one http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9999.msg156641#msg156641  not even 2 weeks ago guys
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-09 01:11:47
Ok here is my problem with all this. People complain that forum descriptions are too ambiguous, yet I do not see anyone offering up better wording. You say that this is your community? Well maybe it is time that you help us make it better. (Note: This is a generalization, some people actually do have input)
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-02-09 01:14:39
For what it is worth, when I was admin of a bunch of pricks who formed a clique creating trouble for other members I went through tons of rule revisions, trying my best to appease and then later punish but it doesn't matter how the hell you word it.

People understand right and wrong, and they know when they are being shitty.  No clarification is necessary as it is ultimately futile.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: BloodShot on 2011-02-09 02:38:11
People understand right and wrong, and they know when they are being sh*tty.  No clarification is necessary as it is ultimately futile.

So true.

(http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5646249/Resistance-Is-futile.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Locutusofborg23r)
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Furzball on 2011-02-09 04:21:11
@ Hermoor
aww and I was LMAO at that. Epic!
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-09 04:33:15
I told you your continued whining and complaining and immaturity wouldn't go unpunished.  Just because I called a truce doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to tolerate your sh*t.  Bans for mocking/disrespecting other members has precedence, so don't think you're the first.  And yes I do fully expect you to continue coming here whining and complaining.

In case there is any confusion.  The ban is for your avatar.  Blatant disrespect to any member is a severe warning.  Continued disrespect after being told to quit by a moderator(s) is bannable.  Goodbye.

Also, for anyone wondering what he is talking about.  Matron Orlha made another account and badmouthed myself and KM.  So it was deleted and he was banned again.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-09 10:25:13
Ok here is my problem with all this. People complain that forum descriptions are too ambiguous, yet I do not see anyone offering up better wording. You say that this is your community? Well maybe it is time that you help us make it better. (Note: This is a generalization, some people actually do have input)

Good point. I'll see what I can draft tonight.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Mako on 2011-02-09 10:43:09
I told you your continued whining and complaining and immaturity wouldn't go unpunished.  Just because I called a truce doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to tolerate your sh*t.  Bans for mocking/disrespecting other members has precedence, so don't think you're the first.  And yes I do fully expect you to continue coming here whining and complaining.

In case there is any confusion.  The ban is for your avatar.  Blatant disrespect to any member is a severe warning.  Continued disrespect after being told to quit by a moderator(s) is bannable.  Goodbye.

Also, for anyone wondering what he is talking about.  Matron Orlha made another account and badmouthed myself and KM.  So it was deleted and he was banned again.

Well I am hardly in a position for a "draft" of new and interesting rules but...This rule would have helped in this situation...

Users may not argue a moderators decision publicly. Any and all complaints directed at a moderator must first address the moderator in question via PM. If the problem can not be resolved, then the moderator and user must send their positions to the forums global moderator. The forum global moderator will make or change any and/or all final decisions.

Might have avoided any problem, then again it might not have. Aether way your bases would have been covered. :|

Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Giullio on 2011-02-09 13:39:33
Ahhh... so much energy wasted in this topic...
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-09 17:34:35
Users may not argue a moderators decision publicly. Any and all complaints directed at a moderator must first address the moderator in question via PM. If the problem can not be resolved, then the moderator and user must send their positions to the forums global moderator. The forum global moderator will make or change any and/or all final decisions.
I like the part about arguing publicly since it is very hard for people to maintain their cool.  Were this in place, maybe Furzball and some others would still be around.  I think the publicity just causes both sides to further stand their ground so ultimately nothing is really accomplished.  As far as global moderators go, we all are: myself, sl1982, halkun, alhexx.  I'm just the only active one who gets the tag.

As far as the site is concerned, Programming Feedback should be eliminated since we now allow questions in the program's thread.  And there's Tech Support (maybe renamed Troubleshooting) for any other problems.   Also, instead of the site's own search engine I think we would benefit from implementing google to take care of that for us.  That may also help get rid of the "your last search was less than 30 seconds ago" problem.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-09 18:02:18
Shoot first ask later is how I've been trained and lived my life for years.

We're not in downtown Baghdad. That may be a fine policy when your life is at stake, but over here the worst possible thing that could arise from failing to act quickly enough is that a thread might be on the wrong board for a couple of hours. The two situations aren't really comparable.

Users may not argue a moderators decision publicly. Any and all complaints directed at a moderator must first address the moderator in question via PM. If the problem can not be resolved, then the moderator and user must send their positions to the forums global moderator. The forum global moderator will make or change any and/or all final decisions.

When you solve one problem, you often create two more. In this case, making it impossible to publicly question a moderator's decision would greatly reduce transparency. Users need to know what's going on if they are to feel comfortable on the forums; keeping everyone in the dark about why Tommy Atkins or Joe Bloggs got banned creates an Orwellian atmosphere. Decisions made behind doors always feel very shady to me.

Furthermore, by having everything in the open, it forces everyone to either play nice or lose the respect of all the forum's members. You wouldn't have a court case behind closed doors, would you? No, because power could be abused and no-one would know. By making these things public, we can see who's doing what and everyone will be encouraged to behave fairly.

As far as the site is concerned, Programming Feedback should be eliminated since we now allow questions in the program's thread.

I have no strong objection to this, but what would we do with all the threads? Things are already very messy after the last change. Would all the threads be moved to the "projects" board. (obviously, it would be absurd to just get rid of them; all that valuable knowledge would be lost)

That may also help get rid of the "your last search was less than 30 seconds ago" problem.

I fucking hate that. The sooner the search problem is dealt with, the better.

It's also pretty hard for people to hold back the temptation to create a new thread instead of using the search function when said search function is almost unusable.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-09 19:29:00
Quote
when said search function is almost unusable.

Ideally, we'd embed a Google search function into the site. The problem is that whilst SMF's search engine can use different metrics to decide what's relevant, none of them are too much good for our purposes. You can make SMF prioritize long threads, but some tech threads are only a couple of pages. You can force exact keyword matches, but someone researching a field won't know what keywords they're looking for. You can emphasise stickies, but we only sticky threads about forum rules. We can make subjects more important, but that's no good if - again - we don't know what keywords we want.

The only metric I can see which would help is the 'match first message' function. Most technical threads are clear about their purposes in the very first thread. They don't tend to wander or digress, but rather stick to a narrowly defined subject ("Field action opcodes", or "The world map layout"). Because these threads stick to a particular purpose, adding extra weight to 'prioritize matching whole threads' might help a little too.

Just some thoughts.

EDIT: And another thing. You guys are aware you can autoban anyone who joins with a particular username, right? For names like 'Seifer', this would have been bad (lots of Seifer fans in the FF world). Various manglings of Norse gods, on the other hand, won't get many false positives. Or, at the very least, Herm will at least spell the names of his idols correctly for a change.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-09 19:36:33
Various manglings of Norse gods, on the other hand, won't get many false positives. Or, at the very least, Herm will at least spell the names of his idols correctly for a change.

The problem is that we'd have to have over 9000 different ban words for each of the over 9000 characters in Norse mythology if we are to account for all the different ways he could misspell them.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-09 19:49:06
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-09 23:50:15
But back to the topic at hand.

Quote
Ok here is my problem with all this. People complain that forum descriptions are too ambiguous, yet I do not see anyone offering up better wording. You say that this is your community? Well maybe it is time that you help us make it better. (Note: This is a generalization, some people actually do have input)

I think we can only organize topics once we understand

1. What our topics are, and
2. How they feed into each other

Now, I think the following demonstrates the 'genealogy of knowledge' on QHIMM - the ways that one sort of knowledge begets another, and therefore where threads are likely to cross topics. Objects above are 'parents' to, or 'lead to' objects linked below them:

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1282/qhimmknowledge.png)

So, we start by reverse engineering the PC and PSX builds. From this, we learn about file formats and how the data they hold is processed. This knowledge leads to, respectively, Extractors and Mechanics Documentation. Extractors soon become editors. All QHIMM members need to do now is create ideas for Mod Projects.

Once we have these ideas, we can apply our mechanics knowledge and editors to create Mods. People play them, and submit bug reports, telling us about their Technical Problems. Meanwhile, non-modders visit our forums wanting to get the PC build up and running. Because their bug reports usually concern our patches for the PC version, Technical Problems and PC Build Tech Support are effectively twinned.

If we can agree to this, or something similar, we can recognize how and when topics will merge and fork. Understanding this is key.

Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Mako on 2011-02-10 00:52:31
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

This does not need to happen...If you to go thought the pain of adding all the "badwords" you might as well install a no proxy mod for SMF which works really well preventing any of the above problems.

Don't know what to do about SMF's search system, it sucks...
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2011-02-10 16:51:54
I cannot take anyone's complaints seriously if they run anything on gaia.
That's like working at mcdonalds to the fullest of your abilities and complaining your application to be a nuclear physics scientiest was rejected.
I thought Furz was a pretty okay person, there goes my respect.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-10 19:26:09
He was an okay person. He had right to question why he received a warning. What he didnt have a right to do was make derogatory remarks and general disrespect towards others. Had he kept his cool and acted civil in the matter he would have still been here today.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-10 20:07:51
>double posting

Mods, ban him!

As for the problem of how to deal with the ambiguous nature of board descriptions, the only solution is to realise that there will always be grey areas and use common sense in enforcing the rules.

No matter how clear the rules and board descriptions are, there will be threads that a reasonable and informed person won't be able to decide on a board for. There will be threads that one reasonable and informed person will think belongs in one board and another reasonable and informed person thinks belongs in another. There's nothing we can do about this. In these cases, it is unreasonable to discipline anyone.

Furthermore, people should think about why these rules exist. Surely, they are there so that the forums will be easier to use for everyone? They're not some retard filter and they're not there just so that we can punish people for breaking them. If there is a situation where it isn't clear what users or mods should do, then the rules are not fulfilling their purpose. In fact, they're doing the opposite of what they are designed to do by making things confusing and starting arguments

Personally, I think the most important question to ask, when deciding whether or not to punish someone for putting something on what one thinks is the wrong board, is "is this person being a dick?" "is it possible that a reasonable person could have looked at the rules and, bearing said rules in mind, have decided that this was the right board to post the thread in?". If one deems it possible that the posting may have been an honest mistake due to it not being obvious which board the thread belonged in, there is no reason to discipline the user. If, however, it is obvious that the person was ignorant of the rules or just completely disregarded them, then there is reason to reprimand the user. When in doubt, the user must be given the benefit of said doubt. If it turns out that the user actually is a dick, there will be plenty more chances to stick some green writing under his name.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: obesebear on 2011-02-11 04:04:31
This needs to be cleared up, a warning means absolutely nothing unless the person who receives it continues breaking that rule or others back to back to back.  The boards are clear enough that most people have no problem at all putting posts where they need to be.  There are plenty of gray area ones that stay where they are, and there are plenty of gray area threads that have been silently moved to where they better fit.

There are separate boards for separate topics, and if no one enforces having threads put in their proper place, then qhimm.com will return to how it was before I became a moderator and 90% of threads ended up in Game Tweaking/Projects.   Could the boards be clearer?  Yes, definitely.  Are they clear enough to keep most threads where they should be?  Yes.   Will anyone be moderated or banned for putting threads in the wrong place? No, unless they are obviously doing it on purpose.

Punishment via our warning system is being moderated or worse. Getting a green tag under your name means nothing other than to show other moderators what you were warned for, and to serve as a small reminder to the person who received it.

Also, double posting is cool here... unless it leads to flooding.
Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Opine on 2011-02-11 20:42:38
Just a thought - but I frequent another forum, where they have an infraction point system. I don't know if this would be possible to implement on this board or not.

There, if you are warned once for something trivial it only appears on your User CP and as a message in your inbox.

It only shows up publicly, under your username in threads, if your infractions points are greater than 0 (Minor warnings have no points, unless you receive a second minor warning before a previous one has expired.)

Also, different violations carry different weights of points. So if you do something obviously being rude, your warning could carry high points - whereas if make an honest mistake, it can have low or none.
Or if you do something warn-worthy before a previous 0-point warning has expired, then second warning carries more weight.

I realize this might make it harder for the mods to keep track of who was warned for what. I also realize this might not be possible on this board. -Just a thought.

Title: Re: Warnings and etc
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2011-02-14 00:45:52
I don't think we need an elaborate system like that. In a bigger forum, maybe.
But on average, I'd say we have less than 100 relevant posts in a day. ( Or maybe a little over that, I don't really read EVERYTHING, especially not off-topic )
As such, mods can actually decide on a case-by-case basis what is handled how. It's not like we have 50 mods, where half questions the actions of the others.