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Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-14 23:12:48

Title: Man vs Computer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-14 23:12:48: I'm currently watching Watson play Jeopardy; he's doing well. This is a pretty big event in the history of AI.

EDIT:

He's currently tied with one of the greatest players around; he started off very strongly but lost his lead in the second half.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Covarr on 2011-02-15 00:16:16: Shh. Some of us are in a different timezone.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-02-15 00:23:31: I wouldn't bet on it. IBM cheated Kasparov out of that chess game with behind the scenes intimidation and the way they pretended it was for science when really it was a big ego profit booster. They refused a rematch, and kasparov destroyed Deep Blue in game 2. Computers are still number crunchers, which is why they perform so badly at Go.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-15 00:26:37: Quote from: DLPB on 2011-02-15 00:23:31
I wouldn't bet on it. IBM cheated Kasparov out of that chess game with behind the scenes intimidation and the way they pretended it was for science when really it was a big ego profit booster. They refused a rematch, and kasparov destroyed Deep Blue in game 2. Computers are still number crunchers, which is why they perform so badly at Go.

Fufu!

Computers may be number crunchers, but so are we. We just do it in a very different way and have a completely different set of pre-installed software.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Mendelevium on 2011-02-15 00:36:02: Quote from: DLPB on 2011-02-15 00:23:31
I wouldn't bet on it. IBM cheated Kasparov out of that chess game with behind the scenes intimidation and the way they pretended it was for science when really it was a big ego profit booster. They refused a rematch, and kasparov destroyed Deep Blue in game 2. Computers are still number crunchers, which is why they perform so badly at Go.

They have a computer program that plays Go at dan levels now, it gives some low level professionals a run for their money. Haha.
Or so I am told. I saw the program in action, but it was only playing a mid level kyu.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-15 23:30:26: Round two was on tonight and
Spoiler: show
Hory sheet! Humanity just got pwnt!
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Bosola on 2011-02-15 23:38:00: Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-15 00:26:37
Computers may be number crunchers, but so are we. We just do it in a very different way and have a completely different set of pre-installed software.

I'm not so sure. There's a big difference between high-speed, granular bitwise actions and low-speed concatenations of neuron networks. Likewise, I'm not sure if iterating over a well-profiled recursion tree really qualifies as 'a kind of thinking'.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-15 23:46:25: Quote from: Bosola on 2011-02-15 23:38:00
Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-15 00:26:37
Computers may be number crunchers, but so are we. We just do it in a very different way and have a completely different set of pre-installed software.

I'm not so sure. There's a big difference between high-speed, granular bitwise actions and low-speed concatenations of neuron networks. Likewise, I'm not sure if iterating over a well-profiled recursion tree really qualifies as 'a kind of thinking'.

Hey, I was casting my net out widely in order to make a point :P

The point being that human thought isn't something special or magical that computers could never equal.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-02-16 23:01:35: Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-10 23:09:17
Quote from: xLostWingx on 2011-02-10 23:01:29
When your enemy has no arms or legs?

Ah, yes. Situations where your enemy has no arms or legs but you still have to kill him with a huge sword are very common in combat. I can see why people would make swords specifically for these occasions.

Won't be long before Watson and his buddies make us wish we had focused more on huge sword production.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: willis936 on 2011-02-18 00:49:41: Quote from: xLostWingx on 2011-02-16 23:01:35
Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-10 23:09:17
Quote from: xLostWingx on 2011-02-10 23:01:29
When your enemy has no arms or legs?

Ah, yes. Situations where your enemy has no arms or legs but you still have to kill him with a huge sword are very common in combat. I can see why people would make swords specifically for these occasions.

Won't be long before Watson and his buddies make us wish we had focused more on huge sword production.
(http://209.85.12.237/3707/18/0/p1056739/1296110908520.png)

Sorry just wanted an excuse to use that image ;D

Anyway if you think about what a CPU is, it's essentially a giant serial processor. It tackles one task at a time. The incredible thing about the brain is that it's an incredibly efficient parallel processor. There is no "core" or set of "cores". It's billions and billions of neurons (for all intents and purposes: NOMFET memristors) that connect are arranged in a dynamic architecture. Some parts of the brain are designated tasks but if you were to damage your auditory cortex the brain would designate that task to another part. The best part is that the cortexes (? corteces??) share information. So if your brain is doing a task of processing music you might have your auditory cortex taking apart that stream of information while sending it to the cerebellum that remembers parts of it which sends that to the auditory cortext to make corrections and this happens hundreds of times a second across many cortexes every waking second of the day. CPUs are simply too serial in nature to mimic this today. The world's best parallel processors are huge and in turn run into logistical issues of latency and software/hardware design.

It's incredible, but it's not unsolvable. That's why I praise IBM for this publicity stunt. Yeah it's exaggerated, sure it's not real intelligence, but it's a leap forward that wouldn't have been there if they hadn't invested into this. Watson develops basic patterns. Not high level patterns, not with 100% accuracy, but it's a start. You mimic one part of human intelligence then expand on it. It might seem crazy but looking on the past 50 years of logic design and IC advancement I'd say we might be seeing REAL AI by 2061.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44: Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Jaitsu on 2011-02-18 20:31:14: Quote from: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44
Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.

negative side: robots kill us

plus side: we get to think of vista while we're shooting at machines
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-18 20:37:29: Quote from: JaitsuStudios on 2011-02-18 20:31:14
Quote from: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44
Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.

negative side: robots kill us

plus side: we get to think of vista while we're shooting at machines

If the robots run on Vista, we're in no trouble at all.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Jaitsu on 2011-02-18 20:39:35: Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-18 20:37:29
Quote from: JaitsuStudios on 2011-02-18 20:31:14
Quote from: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44
Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.

negative side: robots kill us

plus side: we get to think of vista while we're shooting at machines

If the robots run on Vista, we're in no trouble at all.

aww... can't i shoot at them anyway?
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Vgr on 2011-02-18 20:55:14: Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-18 20:37:29
Quote from: JaitsuStudios on 2011-02-18 20:31:14
Quote from: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44
Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.

negative side: robots kill us

plus side: we get to think of vista while we're shooting at machines

If the robots run on Vista, we're in no trouble at all.

Of course we are! They will constantly crash and who will have to pay for repairs? WE will have to pay. This is gay, really.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-02-18 21:13:54: I meant kasparov game 1 (match 2). Not game 2.

Also, we are nowhere near skynet, which was a self aware computer. This is no neural net, it is just a number cruncher.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: willis936 on 2011-02-20 18:01:45: I don't see how those two terms are mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Man vs Computer
Post by: Cupcake on 2011-02-20 22:23:43: Quote from: Vgr255 on 2011-02-18 20:55:14
Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-02-18 20:37:29
Quote from: JaitsuStudios on 2011-02-18 20:31:14
Quote from: Masa-Buster on 2011-02-18 19:16:44
Looks like we're one step closer to Skynet.

negative side: robots kill us

plus side: we get to think of vista while we're shooting at machines

If the robots run on Vista, we're in no trouble at all.

Of course we are! They will constantly crash and who will have to pay for repairs? WE will have to pay. This is gay, really.

...Or we just... you know... don't repair them.