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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: DLPB_ on 2011-12-27 20:58:08
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(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2010/11/8/14/fps-map-design-then-and-now-10705-1289245688-26.jpg)
I wouldn't create mods for any other series, so what makes Final Fantasy different? And why has my love for it turned into frustration and despair? To answer this question, I will first need to explain a bit about my history with the series.
I first started playing games in the late '80s. My first console was the Atari 2600, and I knew from that point on that I had a close affinity with computer games. When I finally got a NES, I was stunned by the jump in quality compared to the Atari. I would come home every day from school and obsessively beat a given game. I vividly remember spending insane amounts of time mastering Mario 1—going through the game multiple times until defeating the game was more down to memory than it was to skill.
These games are still great today. Sure, the graphics are dated, but they're still enjoyable. You can really see and feel the effort that's been placed into them. I still rank Mario 3 as one of the greatest games of all time; it didn't need 720p, or any 'p', to be great (well, apart from the one that made Mario and Luigi fly). All it needed was solid game design and some catchy music. I am trying not to get to the crux of my argument before time, but you already know where I'm going with this. It is too obvious. Even so, it's necessary to explain WHY things are now the way they are.
Before I owned a Playstation, I mostly played platform games, like Sonic and Mario. I'd never even heard of an RPG.
So, my line to the Playstation was Atari2600 > NES > Megadrive > Playstation. Sadly, I did not own a SNES. Being from a poorer background I could not afford both SNES and Megadrive, so I had to choose. I think my friend's Master System was the reason I ended up opting for the Megadrive. As much as I liked Mario, there was something new and exciting about the Sonic series. I don't regret the decision, because I think that the Megadrive had far more going for it game wise. Due to never owning a SNES, I missed out on Final Fantasy VI. It's still a great game, and one that holds true to the classic Final Fantasy formula: Graphics that push the system, a story based journey, great game play, great music, good pacing, and exceptional replay value.
Before I owned a Playstation, I mostly played platform games, like Sonic and Mario; I'd never even heard of an RPG. That changed on December 22nd 1997, when I first saw Final Fantasy VII. The only reason I chose it was because it had a nice cover and came on three discs; I recall thinking 'Three discs equals longer game'. Luckily, that logic proved to be correct. I received the game at the same time as the console, so it was my first Playstation game, too. You can imagine my surprise having come from the Megadrive era. I loaded the game to be presented with a cinematic opening sequence that just blew me away. I had never imagined that that level of detail was possible. But, even back then, graphics did not make me believe that Final Fantasy VII would be any good. I remember being sceptical—especially about the random encounters (I escaped from so many that I had real trouble beating Materia Keeper :P).
But, somewhere along the way, it dawned on me that this game was the greatest I had ever played. The story was great, the music was great, the game play was great. Hell, it even came with 2D mini-games! I had never seen anything like it. I was hooked for months. I am not a believer in guides, so I discovered 99% of the game for myself, which was satisfying. Every day was a new discovery—and THAT is what makes games last. A new item, a new weapon, a new cut scene, a new super boss, or a secret materia cave.
When Final Fantasy VIII came out, I preordered it. I had never preordered a game before and I was not to be disappointed. It was no fluke- I had finally found my gaming utopia. Final Fantasy IX was great, as was Final Fantasy X. It really did seem to me that the Final Fantasy franchise could not put a foot wrong. It never entered my mind that a main release could EVER be lacking, or something I would not like.
That changed with Final Fantasy X-2. You can't blame me really- I had been spoiled. In the time from Final Fantasy VII to Final Fantasy X, I had also played and completed VI. Final Fantasy was invincible. I preordered Final Fantasy X-2 and didn't have a shred of doubt in my naive mind that it was going to be just as good! I didn't even research it. I had deluded myself into believing the game HAD to be great, even when I saw the gun toting slut on the front cover (it sure wasn’t Yuna). I turned it on in wild anticipation, the same I had done with all the others, and...
What the f*ck!? What the f*ck was this? My jaw nearly dropped off. I didn't say or do anything, I just stared with amazement at this joke of an opening. And then I realized that the story was going to follow suit. But perhaps it wouldn't... so I played 2 hours. It went back in the box, never to be played again. I talked myself into believing it was a blip. Everyone makes a mistake, right? After all, this was a sequel...
When Final Fantasy XII was released, like a true fanboy (which I was), I went out there and preordered that too without doing a shred of research (again). The game seemed like it was going to be just as good as the other entries to the series that I had grown to love, but when I reached the end of the game, I couldn't believe how lacking the whole affair had been; from the brainless battle system right through to the one-line-wonder characters. It was Final Fantasy in name only. It was then that I started reading reviews and removed my head from my arse. What did I find? Glorious reviews, generally. I kept seeing, 'The story is deep!', 'The new battle system really does away with the old, tired model' and 'This game is an inspiration! Truly the greatest Final Fantasy!' Absolute bollocks. Anyone who thinks that about Final Fantasy XII is fooling themselves. Mixed in with these fanboy ratings I saw a few that actually had the game to a tee. They made it clear that if you were expecting Final Fantasy VI-X quality, you were going to be disappointed.
I racked my brain for days wondering how anyone could conclude XII was a masterpiece. So after Final Fantasy XII, I started thinking about possible reasons for the series seemingly going downhill. It couldn't be the new generation console, because Final Fantasy X is brilliant. I blamed the Enix merger for a long time. Then I thought it was because the team that worked on XII was not the team that had worked on previous entries. But no. Any illusions I had that that was the real reason were shattered by more obvious money making spin-offs. Final Fantasy XIII put the nail in the coffin for me. There are many reasons why Final Fantasy has taken a spiral downwards, and I will discuss some of them now:
1. Sakaguchi's disastrous Spirits Within movie, which was a massive box-office bomb. I think it would be fair to say that Square as a company needed a lot more money, and that the games which followed took a turn for the worse due to that need for money. The Enix merger, as far as I am aware, was necessary too, given the company was having financial problems. So perhaps the Enix merger has become the convenient scapegoat? I am not sure, but I personally think it did have an effect, even if you ignore Spirits Within.
2. Sakaguchi leaving. A lot of things happened in the time between Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2, but I think it would be silly to dismiss this as inconsequential. Sakaguchi was the father of Final Fantasy, and must have had a large influence- especially in guiding the flock. Final Fantasy was his baby, and he wouldn't have wanted it to become a cash cow.
3. The merger. Again, as I said, perhaps this is too convenient an excuse, but there can be no doubt that the games after the merger are lower in quality (http://www.metacritic.com/feature/how-does-final-fantasy-13-compare?page_comment=6).
The current predicament may have been caused by greed to a large extent, but I think the biggest problem is the fact that people have bought into the Final Fantasy brand. I was open minded enough to jump off the train when I realized the games were never going to get better, but others have continued to buy into Final Fantasy. It has sent the company a clear message that they can do as they please.
Nothing would possess me to buy a game like Final Fantasy XIII. The only good thing I can say about it, compared to Final Fantasy VI-X, is that it has better graphics. And that's it. XIII has awakened a few from their fanboy stupor, as more have been willing to give the game a negative reaction in reviews, but it still hasn't sunk in for some (http://gematsu.com/2011/09/square-enix-registers-final-fantasy-xiii-3-domain-renews-final-fantasy-versus-xiii-trademark). I don't know how anyone can become this stupid (http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6458&page=186).
Final Fantasy continues to sell enough that 'Senix' are making a large profit, and if they can do that by pumping out spin-offs, graphic-fests, or remakes- they will (provided the remakes are easy to make, of course). Simply put, they are not only getting good sales from the fps generation of gamers, they are getting support from fans of the series who should have cast them aside after Final Fantasy XII, like I did. You cannot blame Senix for continuing to laugh in people’s faces when they are doing as they please, with no repercussions. They know that Final Fantasy XIII was negatively received compared to the other games, they have even made statements that the western gamers 'don't get it'. But we do get it. The thing is... they don’t care. And they won't care until people kick them in the pocket.
I know all too well that the Final Fantasy games after X are lower in quality. I know this to be true when I see mini-games disappearing, towns disappearing, exploration disappearing, a literal gauntlet play through, quantity of things to do disappearing, dialogue becoming verbose and ridiculous, character development becoming amateurish, and stories becoming convoluted and nonsensical. I can see these things. I can demonstrate these things. They are not my imagination. One of the most laughable things I have seen people doing is making excuses, such as: 'Oh well, I didn’t really like towns' , 'I didn't really care for NPC' and 'I didn't even play mini-games'. Am I the only person who realizes how useless that argument is, and how stupid it sounds? Senix are turning an RPG series into a dumbed down shooter-type series. The player is becoming an inconvenience to their graphic orgasms. They are selling out the same fanbase that got them where they are in the first place.
And it isn't just Final Fantasy that has this problem- Resident Evil, Command and Conquer, and Metal Gear Solid, have all gone worse in recent years. They are all about dazzling the audience with graphics, and to hell with quality game-play or decent pacing. Who cares, right? It sells. I despair at the number of people who have been sucked into this and buy these games on the back of nostalgia. They are deluding themselves like a religious fanatic would his religion. Nothing changes when one votes for the same political party, and nothing changes when one continues to buy a game on the back of graphics, hype, fanboyism, or nostalgia.
I know there are a number of people who genuinely like Final Fantasy XII, XIII, MGS4, Resident Evil 4/5. They can like them all they want, but those games are a shadow of what came before. They are lacking in the very things that MADE them what they are. When one tears out engaging puzzles, suspense, and a haunting soundtrack from Resident Evil- it isn't Resident Evil. When one makes a game a heap of nostalgia with 100 lengthy cut scenes, rips out all the fun sneaking aspects, and makes it a near first person shooter- it is no longer Metal Gear Solid. When one sacrifices tactics and brainpower, for graphics and explosions- it is no longer Command and Conquer. And when one f*cking well rips out what makes a jRPG a jRPG, it is no longer what I fell in love with.
People can like these 'new' games all they want, but don't tell me I should accept it, or see it as normal, or god-forbid- an 'innovation'. It isn't. It is just a simple, easy way for them to make money, and your enjoyment comes second. Now, the usual response to this is to point out that all companies care about money, and whilst that is true, there used to be a decent balance. There used to be a striving for creativity and quality. That balance has firmly shifted to the money side, and it is as plain as a pair of tits.
I have also realized that the next generation consoles have had a huge effect on the quality of games being released today. Once upon a time, graphics could be a talking point, but not usually a game seller. The media the games came on, and the power of the system itself, restricted what could and could not be done. Final Fantasy came on three CDs because of the FMVs. Those FMVs had to be carefully chosen for specific places, and the game had to have more going on than just video sequences. The graphics could not carry the game, they could only enhance it. Likewise, a DVD did not allow the game designers to do as they pleased with Final Fantasy X.
But then 50GB Blu-Ray discs and powerful processors arrived. Now you have a company that can do as it pleases- Amazing sequences can be so frequent that they end up thinking less about design. The term here is 'art from adversity', and this is a key factor in what is lacking in today's games. A company has to have responsibility when it is given that much freedom. It isn't as easy as you might think. It takes a balanced individual to realize that, sometimes, more is less. Hideo Kojima certainly doesn't realize that. He thinks that when you have a 50GB Blu-ray disc, it's really just a challenge to see how much of it you can fill up, even if the end user has to then spend half of their time installing compressed data from the disc.
Finally, we come to the 'professional reviewers'. When I saw that Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XII had gained so much praise, I naturally wanted to know why the professional reviewers missed massive, glaring issues with the games. Frequently, I see a tactic of completely ignoring the story in a story-based game, or filling up the review with verbose waffle. The only conclusion I can make is that either these companies are infested with fanboys themselves, or are scared of a negative backlash, or are in the pocket of big business. Possibly all 3.
What reviewer can gloss over the story like it doesn't matter to an RPG? What reviewer can give a game 40/40 or 10/10 when there is so much wrong with it? Very few games are '10/10', but most of these 'experts' don't have the balls to mention any of the issues, and the fanbase parrot along nodding. It seems that graphics, and the brand name, will get you far even with the professionals. Just slap in dazzling graphics, call it Final Fantasy, and watch it sell like hot cakes. Don't bother giving me a full, impartial break-down of how you arrived at those insane scores, instead, crap out verbose waffle about graphics, innovation, style and presentation.
Those are the main reasons I see for the demise of Final Fantasy and other game series. The phrase now is 'Quick buck. Don't give a f*ck.' Final Fantasy has become a victim of its own success.
DLPB
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Feel better? :)
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Kinda... but FF has been dead to me a long time, so not really all that much.
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I actually enjoyed reading all that thanks for sharing!, but i thought you said in another dated old thread about you never bought final fantasy 13 and said just be watching some youtube vids (i think) you decided not to buy it?.
Final fantasy x-2 lol i did the same thing pre-ordered with so much anticipation played it got angry didn't play it for like an year then decided to give it a go again and got stuck somewhere at the near end boss then didn't bother so just read,watched spoilers.
Akso i think the newer ff series is getting ruined because of what i think is to blame sakaguchi leaving, greed with money and this generation people what they all think about which is graphics and new features/technology etc.
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That is true, I extensively researched, including videos :) I have never bought it, although since I have played a bit on cousins PS3 (and I hated it). I no longer have a PS3, I sold it after MGS4. After FFXII, Advent Children and FFX-2, I made sure never to be fooled again by FF.
I haven't played any of the FF spin offs either... dirge, crisis core, before crisis or any other crap. I can see another one coming soon too.
Also... have you seen the state of this cash machine? No wonder quality has taken a nose dive.
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy XIII-3
Final Fantasy Versus XIII (only just started proper production)
Final Fantasy Type-0
Known as
ファブラ ノヴァ クリスタリス ファイナルファンタジー
Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy
スーパーアルティメートウオーゴッドスプリームカッシュイン
Super ultimate war god supreme cash in!
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this is why im not buying ffxiii-2. in the teaser, it actually says something like "multiple paths to explore!" lmao
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That sums up where this great series has ended up... a talking point is now getting something even an idiot would have expected from a RPG once over. Imagine that multiple paths to explore has become a selling point...
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i know this is random but i wish they had a ff7 mmo with similiar gameplay style to gw2
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Dan, you have been flamed around the forums for saying such stuff without clear arguments. I, though, have been following you since the beginning in this, and I totally agree.
Good example of Blu-Ray discs is the fact that it can be as few as 1 Gb, or even less, and still be awesome. I'm constantly watching some Vocaloid stuff that occupy around 7 Gb on a Blu-Ray disc. That leaves a big empty hole, doesn't it? They do not even need to fill it all for it to be good.
What's the point of the so-called FFX HD? Money. Only the f*cking money. Would Sakaguchi come back, this would change back for the best.
Any of you ever watched Tron : Legacy? At one point, the main character is in his father's old building. His father disappeared, but the company still runs. At one point, the new president says that :
"The idea to freely distribute our software disappeared with Flynn. Now we're just trying to get money."
That sums it up. Congrats for making this post dan :)
Err, I began typing this post right after you made it but had to leave...
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It is a wonder that now a lot more smaller and more independent game companies catch my eye then big companies. Heck only big companies I watch anymore are Bethesda and blizzard. I think at this point the unreal engine owns independent games pretty well. I think that the game industry may be moving into an era where simple works best. I mean, look at the success of alot of iPhone and iPad games. Dark meadows, infinity blade, angry birds, and other quick scoring games are the success. Nowadays, enjoying a good rpg is like reading a book. With work, family, and other daily life, it is hard to get the time to enjoy such things.
Rather, the few of us that have the time to enjoy it, it is hard to find new stuff to suit our tastes. So now a lot of us have turned to modding, programming, graphics, and use of free game engines to try and create games that are good works in our eyes. Just like when only elite few were artists and writers, slowly being the elite few of game development is coming to an end where even kids are putting out award winning works, or people use wysiwyg game builders and make a quick buck.
I don't know if that is a bad or good thing. I mean think about how much any community opened up with the Internet. The art community with deviant art. Flash developers with new grounds. List goes on. And because of that people get to share, experience, and enjoy new ideas. Often for free now. So why not games.
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Personally I think that developers that "lose" their way only appear to do so, the sad truth of the matter is that they were always this way, except 10-20 years ago they were limited in their vision by the hardware (and software) and so had to innovate elsewhere. CGI was expensive, creativity was cheap.
Just look at some of the biggest franchises that were born in the 80s and 90s, how many of these have ended up in the shitter in the constant push for "cinematic gameplay". Video games are not bloody films! I'm looking at you Kojima! That isn't to say that all film/game hybrids suck, but I sure as hell don't have the patience anymore to sit through incessant cutscenes unless they are the opening or ending (yeah I know, 30 year old gamer stereotype).
Which brings me to my second point: we are getting older, we will always be biased towards what we grew up with, you are always wearing rose-colored glasses, not matter how much you like to think you aren't. This always needs to be taken into account. This year game-wise has been one of the best in history, and yet if I think back to the late 90's it almost seems like every year was like this, which just isn't true; that's just how adolescent memories are, vague and naive.
It's no coincidence that gameplay-wise the real innovation is in the indie scene (oh god I'm a hipster gamer), the video game market has simply reached it's inevitable mass-market goal. There will always be the occasional gem even in the big-budget titles, but otherwise they will always cater to the lowest common denominator, because that's just how things are in mass-market business.
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That is depressingly true...
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Only cinematic games I tend to like are the old final fantasies we like(7,8,9,10) and metal gear games.
Yeah at this point I agree. Rose colored glasses seem to be the the in style for us oldie retros.
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It's not just role-playing games but games in general which are lacking in creativity and originality. Your fps map design pic summed up the general state of things perfectly.
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Not going to agree, but not going to argue. you like what you like.
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Hmm still not sure if i should pre-order Final Fantasy Versus Xiii it's nothing like Final Fantasy Xiii and 2 its a bit like Kingdom Hearts as far as i can see in youtube videos
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There is never any rush... you just wait for 2 weeks, look at real youtube videos and read reviews (make sure to put onus on reviews that are scored 5-8, as they are generally fairer). Then make your decision. If after that you end up not liking the game, at least you can say you researched it. There is nothing worse than having an expectation that gets shattered.
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Hmm that makes sense yeah i'll wait and see, thanks
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I agree with most of your arguments, with only one exception.
I believe Resident Evil 4 has evolved, sure it's not scary anymore and may have a poor history and poor puzzles, but the gameplay is much better than the past series, in fact, RE4 for me was so much fun that I completed it six times, one friend of mine done it twelve times. So i agree that the games are becoming shallow but in the case of RE4 you need to agree that the gameplay system is better.
Final Fantasy X-2, was one of my first PS2 games, I used to play PS2 at a friend house until I bought my own ps2, I played FF10 with him, so I did the same shit you did, bought without thinking, in fact, I played nearly 30 hours expecting to somewhere in the game to improve, I was very young then and heartbroken :,<. I bought FF12 and, well comparing to the X-2, the 12 were much better but... not good as X. So I lost my faith around there, after 12 I realized that the sequell that i once loved was dead.
Squarenix is not listening to the fans anymore, or they did some sort of brainwash... On the other hand, nintendo Shigeru Myamoto ALWAYS listen to his fans. when he did Zelda wind waker the fans complained about the graphics, so what he did?
Twilight princess, with the old N64 graphics...
The truth is what everybody already knows, Square enix don't give a damn, they only care about money. So, i sugest, try to find another games, don't rely in one franchise... Play what you like not what have a nice name. It's trully a shame to watch such an amazing game to die, but it happened.
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My point was that it is no longer Resident Evil. Call it something else, I am all cool with it. I hated it, because I expected a survival horror with great puzzles... and that is what the game tells you it is going to be. They are using the name to sell it, and that is deceitful. All my favourite franchises have gone same way, so after FF7 mods, I will be going back to older PS games and PS2 games. There are a lot of good games back then I never finished :)
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DL, I agree with you about Resident Evil to a degree. It was presented as a Survival Horror game and wasn't really one. BUT, the game was A LOT of fun to play as Giullio said. It's one of my favorites next to the first two games. Also what Giullio said about Nintendo is true as well. I started playing the Zelda series with A Link To The Past on SNES. And I have enjoyed every Zelda game since then, and the ones before it (except The Adventures of Link. A side scrolling Zelda? lol) I wish that Square could take a page from Nintendo's book but I don't think that they would. Side note, I just found my copy of Dragon Quest VIII for the PS2. I think i'm going to pop that bad boy in and give it a whirl again.
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I'll agree with RE4 on some points, but for me it was an excellent game in its own right and it was a gamble for Capcom that paid off in the end, and a breath of fresh air in a series that desperately needed it. Change is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the latest Batman trilogy for example, I think very few people would say that it isn't Batman because there are no "SOCK!" & "BIFF!" screens during the fighting. Similarly, if you're a fan of camp 60s Batman, The Dark Knight doesn't retroactively ruin the older series for you.
Having said that, as you say it really doesn't feel like classic Resident Evil: the story is god awful, even by RE standards, it's far too linear, and I really don't remember feeling particularly scared. What it was though was entertaining, and while I'm not going to say that the absolute essence of gaming is to have "fun", I think it plays a pretty important role.
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If you think about it since square-soft turned into square-enix the final fantasy quality dropped a lot. The thing is that they managed to buy -off other smaller or going-bankrupt companies and made much more money that they were used too. Now they just sit back and relax while final fantasy is turning into a 80 year old lady with cancer and syphilis.I can still remember the first trailers of final fantasy XIII and i can tell you that for some reason i didn't like it one bit and that's why i never bought it. A friend of mine lend it to me and told me that in the beggining is bad but later it gets good. When i was at the final boss i called him and told him were i was and asked him if i was now in the middle of the game and it would get good....He told me i was in the end...Imagine the shock!!lol. Call me stubborn but still for some reason i still have a little tiny bit of hope for ffversus xiii. I think they're going to put more effort into it 1) because final fantasy xiii was such a disaster and final fantasy xiii-2 a much bigger one and because the fans have been waiting for the game for so long that if it turns out bad i think it will be the worst selling rpg game of the last 10 years..As fore resident evil 4 i think it was really good and a little bit scary and kinda difficult in contrast with rs5(which was boring as far as i am concerned) although you can't compare it with resident evil 1 and 2. I mean come on!A freakin door opening slowly doing all that noise. Sudden zombies and crows around. OUT OF BULLETS AND HERBS!! That was epic. These games actually had you scratching your head thinking how to solve riddles puzzles etc. Games now are pretty obvious. You know where to go cause there is only one path lying ahead of you. They lack the 'What if i go from that route first. Maybe a secret character lying inside a coffin or a thieving little tomboy". They used to say that playing computer games etc enchanced your reflexes,senses etc. Right now i only see a lot of kids getting damper every year. I do agree with you in everything you said DLPB and i like the fact you are passionate enough about this to speak your mind about it evey so often.
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Aside from missing a paragraph or 2, that was a great post, Kicker! 8-)
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RE4 was a great game, albeit not being as much like previous resident evils, but something took a step backwards in the series from that game that went unnoticed by most, and that is the unnecessary intro cutscenes for every new enemy type. The old resident evils would just have an enemy there or randomly pop out at you and it gave you a sense of uneasiness through the entirety of the game. Eliminate the cutscenes and those feelings could return.
RE5's problems come from the fact that it is basically RE4 with HD graphics. I mean all the levels from RE5 are in RE4 except in Spain instead of Africa. Village > Swamp > Ruins > Facility. Salazar and Irving look and sound almost the same. RE4 was better in every way except graphics and Co-op.
If they would have made the ideas for the plot and environments a little more original, and took out those stupid intro videos, the game would have been much better and much more horror-filled. Playing the dlc inside the mansion is a perfect example like a demo of the what the game could have been. Play it on the hardest difficulty and the enemy's will spawn in randomized places, breaking into a room you thought they wouldn't be able to enter, and your ammo feels increasingly sparse like the old games. If they would have put more enemy types and actually made a game that way, it would have been awesome.
FFX-2 was horrible. Pretending it never happened is the only way I can live with myself after playing it.
FFXII had a terrible battle system, and the main character was a homo. Penelo and Vaan had so little to do with the main storyline they both could have been omitted without any consequence on the story. That actually would save the game in my opinion if it wasn't for the awful battle system. The battle system had no strategy, and no, gambits do not count. Setting some basic commands for your characters and then watching fights is boring and not innovative by any means. The game expected you to grind your characters until they were strong enough to auto battle the next series of enemies, and to make it worse, the leveling in the game was incredibly slow, possibly the slowest in the series. It could take hours to level only a couple times.
That being said the background story for the game was actually quite good, and most of the other characters are quite likable. The environments are large and there are quite a bit of extra items, dungeons, enemies, and espers to collect.
FF13 usually has polarized opinions either hating or loving the battle system, which I think most revolves around the auto battle function, which is horrible or great depending on how you use it. The paradigms are the most strategic part of the battle, setting them up before battle and knowing when to switch them. For common enemies, you should, although you can spam auto battle, try all different types of attacks, paying attention to what enemy it is, and find there weakness. Once you know an enemy's weakness, either by fighting or by librascope, the auto battle is helpful in quickly selecting attacks you would do and saving you time of actually hitting them one by one while your atb gauge remains dormant. Basically people bash the battle system probably because the rest of the game was so awful that they could not push on to pulse, where the battles become interesting and complex. The battle system for 13 may not be the best but it is good and way above 12's.
That being said, the story is also hit and miss. The background story for the game is great, with interesting relationships between the falcie and the lcie, but the plot for the characters is quite the opposite. All the dialogue in the game is boring and amateurish, and all the emotions the characters feel seem unnatural to the situations and forced on them. This is especially true when they encounter their eidolons, which basically happen around the most ridiculous soap-opera drama moments in the game. Every character's motives seem unrealistic or ambiguous which only furthers breaking the immersion. It gets to the point where reading the data logs is way more interesting than watching the cutscenes.
The linearity of the game is a huge problems, and there is little to no exploration until you get to pulse, which some claim is booming with it, but really it is just how the entire game should have been from the beginning. Too little too late is the best phrase to sum up how the game's exploration is.
FF12 was an okay game with a lot of good things going for it, but was held back by two characters and a shitty battle system. If you have beaten the game, imagine it without vaan and penelo and with a battle system like ff10's and the game would have been a lot better.
FF13 was also an okay game with a good battle system, but the game just seemed like a miss. It's like there were a lot of great ideas that were ruined by linearity and poor story telling in an actually pretty interesting setting.
In conclusion, 12 and 13 may not be as good as 7-10 but there is enough there to give hope that they still could potentially make another great, and as long as they have that potential I wouldn't count out the brand just yet. FFVS13 looks like the game that will tell whether brand has truly died or not.
P.S. When I think about it, there are a lot of characters that break the experience somewhat in Final Fantasy in general. It's like, nearly every game has some glaring flaw with some character that is extremely annoying. FF7 has cait sith, FF8 has too many to count but Irvine, Selphie, and Laguna are prime examples, ff9 has the big toad chef thing and zidane's character design (personality not included, Zidane is an awesome character in the story he just looks retarded), ff10 has wakka's stupid blitz ball as a weapon, ff12 has vaan and penelo, ff13 has hope and vanille. Change those things about those games and the people who didn't like them would probably like them a lot more.
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Aside from missing a paragraph or 2, that was a great post, Kicker! 8-)
Mixed feelings need mixed paragraphs ;)
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FFXI died too--played for 7 years
they still making money off it but the game's watered down and uninteresting after they broke the limits
i could sell my account for a thousand dollars but id rather them never make another penny off it. If i did that theyd keep getting 13$ a month from someone to play my char
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Although I don't see what difference it would have made, I'd have much preferred it if XI was named "Final Fantasy Online" and XIV "Final Fantasy Online 2". I'm not at all into MMO, and I'm a bit pissed off that there are "numbered entries" in the series that I'll never touch.
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That I also agree with... it was simply a tactic to sell... and I didn't like it :)
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FFX-2 was horrible. Pretending it never happened is the only way I can live with myself after playing it.
This right here...
X-2 I'm pretty sure that it was made for girls c'mon clothes changing? only 3 female main characters? this game is a nightmare...
I believe neither the girls liked it, they were probably expecting final fantasy not barbie summer camp or some other shit like that...
I don't know if any of you have ever heard of Breath Of Fire series, from Capcom... That RPG is one of my favorites until The 5th sequell for PS2, it sucked so bad I don't even want to talk about it there weren't dragons and the game is about dragons... and Ryu and the graphics, the battlesystem, the characters, the scenarios ... oh god... Still, the 3rd and the 4rth are simply masterpieces. I Highly recomend in case you're missing some true RPGs...
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Breath of Fire 3 ranks in my top 10 games of all time :) Didn't like 4 as much but was still very good... then came 5. No thanks. 'Course IGN, Gamespot and the rest of those clowns couldn't see further than graphics to appreciate the series anyway.
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Woah, woah, woah. FFXIII wasn't the greatest game ever but it certainly wasn't the worst freaking game in existence like you're making it out to be. I thought it was a fun game to play, the characters were alright aside from Snow and the world was amazing. FFXIII's world is probably my favorite in the whole series, next to Spira, that's one of the reasons why I was so pissed that we couldn't backtrack and explore everything so thank goodness FFXIII-2 fixes that. The battle system was fun and I enjoyed playing the game and that's all that matters to me.
Again. When will you realise that I speak in the context of Final Fantasy. I have said practically 100 times that I know the game was "good" when compared to most games. I do not buy FF for "good". That is why FF13 is "crap as a FF game" and why I did not buy it. Final Fantasy used to be great, it used to be worth the dollar.
Whilst you enjoyed it, that does not make up for the numerous flaws, or excuse the sheer dumbing down of the genre. You mention the beautiful world, but that is just it, that is just graphics again.
FF13-2 will fix none of the underlining issues I have, and a tag line of "wow you can explore different paths" is not exactly wonderful.
I keep hearing this "FFXIII isn't the worst game" and "Well, I liked it"
These are not valid excuses and they do not address the core issues which have turned many long term fans off the series. Senix is a money grabber. As a Final Fantasy game, XIII was a brain dead, low IQ "game". And no offense but I thought the story and characters were written by a 5 year old.
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I'll agree with RE4 on some points, but for me it was an excellent game in its own right and it was a gamble for Capcom that paid off in the end, and a breath of fresh air in a series that desperately needed it. Change is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the latest Batman trilogy for example, I think very few people would say that it isn't Batman because there are no "SOCK!" & "BIFF!" screens during the fighting. Similarly, if you're a fan of camp 60s Batman, The Dark Knight doesn't retroactively ruin the older series for you.
Having said that, as you say it really doesn't feel like classic Resident Evil: the story is god awful, even by RE standards, it's far too linear, and I really don't remember feeling particularly scared. What it was though was entertaining, and while I'm not going to say that the absolute essence of gaming is to have "fun", I think it plays a pretty important role.
Don't tell me you don't miss the files with that background story (Itchy.. Tasty..), the camera angles that made it creepy, the music that brings the nostalgia. RE is now an arcade game just like prince of persia or hitman or wtv. All about shooting.
Gamers got dumber, that's why games are so easy today AND so linear. No one seems to want to explore a game, to role play. Now they want easy to get, like they get with food or even relationships. Momentary pleasure rather than a extensive experience.
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Yeah another thing that has gone, is valid competition. Enix and Square used to have to fight each other for monopoly of the genre... (I am getting sick of seeing ellipses) now they ARE the genre. When you remove competition, you get a lazy "Could not care less" philosophy.
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ironically you can blame your beloved FFX for many of the shortcomings of the later final fantasys.
-Running in straight lines-CHECK
-Nowhere to explore-CHECK
-Nobuo leaving the company-Sort of Check (but you can't blame him for it)
-Interactive Movie-Check (I actually enjoyed it though)
-Girlier main characters until you got an actual girl in FF13-Check. No more badass Cloud, we have effeminate girly boy Tidus.
-Supplement exploration with random encounters so you get more game time-Check
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ironically you can blame your beloved FFX for many of the shortcomings of the later final fantasys.
Not really, as that misses the point entirely and is the same lie that was told to apologise for FFXIII. FFX was a step forward in MANY areas, although the lack of world map was a step back (even though the world map too had secrets). Let's run through that nonsense:
-Running in straight lines-CHECK
Yeah sure, but there were many branches and sometimes places off the normal route. There were also towns and wide open spaces. It was not too far different from any other FF if you forget the world map.
-Nowhere to explore-CHECK
Calm lands, Remiem temple, cave of stolen fayth, the main towns like Besaid (yeah towns, real towns), not to mention ships and other areas. The game starts in an open area. FFX was not perfect but it had a damn site more going for it and that is a FACT.
-Nobuo leaving the company-Sort of Check (but you can't blame him for it)
He wrote 1/3 of the FFX soundtrack, and the other composers (including the one who composed XIII) are competent. He wrote the main theme, and quite a number of the most memorable tunes. Why you have placed this here as a negative point is frankly beyond me. FFX was VERY well composed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSWWyCiX6E8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88470TlMxKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJE6SSX-aw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xRCjjiTR7I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrYpOPLh3dc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHw2V0C-D-o&feature=related (and do notice that people in the comments are referencing a difficult minigame).
and on and on and on.
-Interactive Movie-Check (I actually enjoyed it though)
There were far less lengthy sequences than XIII and you know it. The DVD wouldn't let them do it even if they had wanted to. They also weren't in gauntlet checkpoints. Again you use a vague similarity to claim it is exactly the same, a pathetic tactic that many used in order to lie to people about XIII in their reviews.
-Girlier main characters until you got an actual girl in FF13-Check. No more badass Cloud, we have effeminate girly boy Tidus.
Unlike "lightning" and the others, he was on a journey of self enlightenment in a world he did not know. He had a personality and he was not "look I am emo caricature". If people disliked Tidus that is their choice, but he was a well written character. So were the other characters who had depth. Auron fulfilled the role of "cool", though why you believe characters have to be "bad ass" to be good, is again beyond me.
-Supplement exploration with random encounters so you get more game time-Check
How much of FFX did you actually play? There is tons to do, including finding and upgrading weapons by way of miniquests, a number of minigames, spin off areas, super bosses, cloister of trial puzzle game, the ability to control all characters in battle and summons, and customise them, blitzball, a full open desert and towns, the ability to GO BACK to these areas and do more quests... and a story not made for 5 year olds. Off the top of my head.
FFXIII is out of X's league, and again, that is an observable matter of fact. Instead of scraping the barrel, admit to yourself that FFXIII is a shallow imitation. It has had its guts ripped out, and only a carcass remains. The fact the carcass is still slightly recognisable, does not make it alive, it makes it a carcass.
It was not X that doomed the series, it was the fans reactions to the cash in X-2, the spin offs of FFVII and the popularity of XII. Those were the reasons. The fact that they could get away with ripping out control of all characters, get away with not having towns and proper NPC, the fact they could get away with not having true minigames, or numerous sidequests away from battle.
They could get away with it.
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I liked X.
X streamlined the element and status systems, and made individual characters feel genuinely different (unlike the interchangeable fighters of VII and VIII). It had a well developed battle system (with the ability to coordinate attacks a genuine boon in more difficult fights) and some massive sidequests. Its plot was coherent and its lore well-developed. Yes, many sections were quite linear, but that's always been the case in FF games, and at least dungeons never felt artificially padded (paging Mr. FFXII...). X was far better balanced than most of its peers - yes, FFX becomes rather broken in the endgame, but at least it demanded more than the 'spam attack and cast Cure-All' that characterized other episodes in the series.
I never really played X-II, though I didn't like what I saw. What really disappointed me was FFXII. Repetitive levels, arbitrary grinding, a poor abilities mechanic (though I'm told the Zodiac edition fixes this) and a mostly mediocre score (only the boss theme and Battle on the Big Bridge stand out, and the latter doesn't count as it's taken from FFV anyway). Oh, and that fiasco with the Zodiac Spear - a cynical, calculated gambit to force players into shelling out for official guides.
Fuck Final Fantasy XII.
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Ah, glad to see you are another who sussed that the special weapons in XII were just a cynical money spinner. That is precisely what they did... actually a lot of XII's extra stuff is nigh impossible without a guide. I boxed it and sold it long before.
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I never really played X-II, though I didn't like what I saw.
If you're the sort that doesn't really care about the story at all, and just wants a game with good mechanics, I couldn't recommend X-2 any higher. It's got (IMO) the best combat in the series, lots of open world to explore... Pretty much everything that X did even almost wrong, X-2 did very right.
It's too bad it's got such an abysmal disaster of a story. Really, that was the only place the game went wrong (and the music, but that was a side effect of the story). Unfortunately, it went SO wrong there, that it manages to bring down the rest of the game.
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Yeah I've been told this a few times... sadly I never got far enough to appreciate the game. The story/characters/dialogue were that bad. A waste of potential.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUOOgNzOv4
BIGGERER IS BETTERER (In fanboy and Senix world). That music and logo are the perfect summing up of Final Fantasy these days.
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Couldn't agree more with your post DLPB but the same corporate mentality has effected more than just video games. It's ridiculous but if I speak to a teenager these days, I feel sorry for the fact that they don't seem to know anything that made growing up great for my generation. Classic games can be found as Java applet remakes which are played to pass the time, offering a slight peak into greatness. Movies are mostly recycled, uncreative drivel which feed off the originals that made them great like some parasite and mostly anything new is just crap. Music either has some whiny punk ass singing in an attempt to sound like they have the X-factor, or it has a hard B-line, or both to reel in the cash. Most TV shows show us nothing with feeling or thought but just soulless celebrities puppeted around a screen, in the lame attempt to hook onto viewers.
Granted there are a few good things out there but it's almost like its bait, to keep us interested in a waning enterprise.
It seems, for whatever reason, these guys are trying to make millions and are playing every cheap hand (feeding off their previous successes), to do so.
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That is true, it is a social breakdown. But don't worry, change always happens.
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No it isn't. Stop being daft.
Culture in the 1970s, 80s and 90s was no less derivative or unengaging than today's. Comparing today's offerings with what we remember of yesteryear means we apply a selection bias, because we do not remember mediocre titles and artists from the past. Every age has always pointed to a lost, golden past, and today's nostalgists are no less wrong now than their predecessors were before.
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I'd say today's society is dumbed down and TV spoon fed. I definitely think social issues are the reason for it. People have less respect, certainly in my country, and TV, education has been dumbed down to sucha degree that it is no wonder the masses are mindless.
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Not really, as that misses the point entirely and is the same lie that was told to apologise for FFXIII. FFX was a step forward in MANY areas, although the lack of world map was a step back (even though the world map too had secrets). Let's run through that nonsense:
I haven't touched FFXIII at all. Heard terrible reviews, apparently it's supposed to have even less exploration than FFX, was too scared to touch it.
Yeah sure, but there were many branches and sometimes places off the normal route. There were also towns and wide open spaces. It was not too far different from any other FF if you forget the world map.
Calm lands, Remiem temple, cave of stolen fayth, the main towns like Besaid (yeah towns, real towns), not to mention ships and other areas. The game starts in an open area. FFX was not perfect but it had a damn site more going for it and that is a FACT.
Oh man, definitely not. If you entered a dungeon in FF7 there was always multiple paths to walk. Of course they all led to the same place, but at least it was sort of fun navigating the map and doing parkour. Climbing up to Shinra HQ for example i remember jumping on all these random metal things. Or perhaps in FF7 where there are multiple doors, and multiple paths that make a dungeon explorable. A dungeon in FFX, we'll say the cavern of stolen fayth, was so dumbed down. It's a straight line with occasional dead ends branching off of it. Calm lands? Besaid? Come one there was nothing to explore there. Calm lands, bam we plopped down a huge circle of grass with 2 exits. Calm lands 2 was a bit better I guess. Besaid was literally a straight line with houses on the side and the back exit was the temple. Compare that to FF8's balamb garden or balamb itself.
He wrote 1/3 of the FFX soundtrack, and the other composers (including the one who composed XIII) are competent. He wrote the main theme, and quite a number of the most memorable tunes. Why you have placed this here as a negative point is frankly beyond me. FFX was VERY well composed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSWWyCiX6E8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSWWyCiX6E8&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88470TlMxKw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88470TlMxKw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJE6SSX-aw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJE6SSX-aw&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xRCjjiTR7I&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xRCjjiTR7I&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrYpOPLh3dc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrYpOPLh3dc&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHw2V0C-D-o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHw2V0C-D-o&feature=related) (and do notice that people in the comments are referencing a difficult minigame).
and on and on and on.
I thoroughly enjoyed Nobuos contributions in FFX and will be one of the first to tell you that it is one of his better works. Granted early FF's had rather poor sound quality but whatever. My actual point was that it was signifying FF going downhill. Nobuo leaving didnt affect FFX as badly as it did FFXII/FFX-2/etc/etc.
There were far less lengthy sequences than XIII and you know it. The DVD wouldn't let them do it even if they had wanted to. They also weren't in gauntlet checkpoints. Again you use a vague similarity to claim it is exactly the same, a pathetic tactic that many used in order to lie to people about XIII in their reviews.
Again I have not played FFXIII. If you talked to me about FFXII i would be a bit better off. I enjoyed FFX's story. Just that it's guilty of starting a trend because it worked successfully.
Unlike "lightning" and the others, he was on a journey of self enlightenment in a world he did not know. He had a personality and he was not "look I am emo caricature". If people disliked Tidus that is their choice, but he was a well written character. So were the other characters who had depth. Auron fulfilled the role of "cool", though why you believe characters have to be "bad ass" to be good, is again beyond me.
Well I disliked Tidus as a main character. And we're not talking about his terrible voice acting either. And really the main character is probably the one who makes or breaks a game/story. Nobody gives a fuck about your Vincent Valentines or Quistis Trepes. I thought Tidus was a bit of a tool. I hated how he looked (bro, check out my bling, bro, i might as well not be wearing a shirt, and that haircut..... ughhh). And his fake confidence annoyed me all the time.
How much of FFX did you actually play? There is tons to do, including finding and upgrading weapons by way of miniquests, a number of minigames, spin off areas, super bosses, cloister of trial puzzle game, the ability to control all characters in battle and summons, and customise them, blitzball, a full open desert and towns, the ability to GO BACK to these areas and do more quests... and a story not made for 5 year olds. Off the top of my head.
Well I finished the game. Did not finish all the side quests. Didn't kill the superbosses. FFX probably had a better late-late game than earlier FF's just because they recoloured a lot of summons and changed some numbers around. It does beat earlier FF's in this regard. Of course there are sidequests. Every Final Fantasy has sidequests and minigames. There just wasn't as much as earlier versions. Just take the Jecht spheres for example. Compare it to FF8's Laguna sequence. Instead of playing as Laguna and team, you get to watch Jecht walk back and forth and text appears on the screen.
Story I enjoyed. Other games made for 5 year olds? IDK. FF7 has one of the most "you find out something new everytime you play it" type stories i've ever seen. On the other hand i sort of agree. I hated how every game I played, I had to save the world. How boring. How about killing sephiroth for pure revenge's sake. Saving the world, just doesn't feel awesome like you would think saving the world does. Story flaws exist in all FF's so I won't really say much about that. (Like wtf happened to Shinra....)
FFXIII is out of X's league, and again, that is an observable matter of fact. Instead of scraping the barrel, admit to yourself that FFXIII is a shallow imitation. It has had its guts ripped out, and only a carcass remains. The fact the carcass is still slightly recognisable, does not make it alive, it makes it a carcass.
It was not X that doomed the series, it was the fans reactions to the cash in X-2, the spin offs of FFVII and the popularity of XII. Those were the reasons. The fact that they could get away with ripping out control of all characters, get away with not having towns and proper NPC, the fact they could get away with not having true minigames, or numerous sidequests away from battle.
They could get away with it.
Lol, FFX was successful. So they tried to copy its formula. It somewhat succeeded in later games. They assumed it was because of all the new stuff. It worked in FFX but FFX did start the trend.
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Oh and one more thing, I hadn't read all of this topic but I think nobody mentioned what they did with the summons, In X the summoning system was cool, I liked it, it was different but I liked it, but in XII what the fuck just happened here? they are useless decorative things only, and c'mon a lot of those summons I didn't even known from previous games... perhaps some.
In XIII I saw some reviews and stuff, It seems that Shiva is a bike and Ifrit is a car, Odin a horse... Is that right? Where are those mighty beasts that came with overwhelming power and stroke all the screen with fantastic cutscenes?
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I did do a huge XII review once, and believe me the pathetic summons were mentioned. An example of where X got it right (gave you control of them) and XII went backwards (Took control away from you and made them near useless).
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Ifrit isn't in 13, that's Brynhildr.
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Something should be said about the fact that so many can gather around the idea that FFX was a major component of Square's initial decline. Why isn't everyone saying that VIII or IX was the turning point? Well, because they were still good and they were made before the 'wrongness'. FFX however, did have many faults that weren't in previous FF installments AND it was the last FF to be made before the wrongness began. FFX itself had many good qualities, no one has tried to deny that here. But it is not as if Square lept off a cliff, instead they drove down a fairly steep hill. So no...FFX was not Square's greatest failure, nor was it a culmination of the everything that was wrong with Squaresoft, but FFX was the seed from which the decline grew from. That seed attracted a new and different clientele, and with them came lots of money. So obviously Square chose to expand on FFX's "innovations" - Which is What Went Wrong.
Most of the people that hate VII, hate it because it was a major change in the way Square made their FFs. Those people have every right to point the finger at VII. Of course, that doesn't make it a bad game, but you can't deny that VII was a major turning point in Square's history. FFX was a good game, but it changed FF in a very real way. Interstingly, this adds support to your Technology explanation as VII was first FF on PSX and X was the first on PS2, just as XIII (another major turning point, that most of us say is for the worse) was the first FF on PS3. C'mon, it might hurt to say it, but FFX definetely had a lot to do with our current opinion of Square.
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People who think VII was a decline, are retarded. It kept to the same formula mostly and enhanced it. It did not do away with NPC, or integral components of what makes a jRPG a jRPG and that is the difference. Nor does X. XII did to an extent because the character driven story disappeared and so did intelligent turn based battle. XIII was the first that I would no longer class as a jrpg.
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Exactly right. Look at all of the systems and content from the games previous to VII and it doesn't take long before you see that VII has got all of these but nicely wrapped up in a graphics engine that was innovative for the time and made the game even more compelling to play. VII is a classic jRPG in every way. I think the thing that puts people off it more than anything is its lack of medieval fantasy setting in favour of a steampunk sort of style.
It's hard to find the turning point but I think there's actually been a steady decline since VII in one way or another. Not saying VII was the last great FF and the turning point but none of its successors have been as good due to various reasons. I didn't like the GF system in VIII, I appreciated the innovation but it just didn't gel with me and I also disliked the environment. IX while more "traditional", felt in some way empty. I don't know if by being "traditional" it ended up with less substance, I can't really explain it.
Then we get to X where things started to pick up. Loved the plot and the fantastic battle system, not so keen on the weapon system and the "world map" but there was more than enough stuff in the actual world to offset that. It was an overall good package but in many respects you could see worrying hints of the direction the series was going to take. X-2 deserves no mention. XII I thought was a good game in its own right despite a terribly weak plot. If it had been given a name other than FF (with the common FF aspects also replaced of course) then I think the FF purists might have rated it higher than what they do. By now though you can see that Squenix is really starting to mess and has moved completely away from what the old school of us perceive as a Final Fantasy game.
XIII I haven't played, I don't actually own a current gen console, but I don't even have a desire to play it. I have a true feeling that I'll never play a proper Final Fantasy game ever again, mainly because Squenix' idea of an FF game is completely different to our idea of one.
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FF VII has a more cyberpunk like setting,while FF VI introduced steampunk machines like trains,Alexander.
With VI VII and VIII perhaps they tried a different way,perhaps they wanted to look professional and more for older gamers.
The management wanted to have full 3D on the PSX if not they could have made something looking like Chrono Trigger or Treasure of the Rudras.
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D'oh cyberpunk was what I was looking for with VII, not steampunk ::)
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Some points worth adding though:
You can blame the old fans for gobbling up sh*t, but I think a larger problem is the new generation of mainstream gamers.
The fact of the matter is that when "games were for nerds", the crowd gaming was smaller I.E potential customers less, and with that comes a larger responsibility on the part of game-developers.
You can't opt for a hit and miss strategy in a niche bussiness - Especially if you consider the cost of production versus the risk of failure.
Nowadays however, everyone and their mums dogs play video-games, and so critical demand is less, and potential customers have risen.
Like with how it's done in all other parts of the media industry, it's more economically feasible to observe the trend of the average and design your product with that in mind.
Since the amount of gamers have risen in total, and the quality-demanding, obsessive gamer type has arguably become a much less important force in the market, games will be made accordingly - Final Fantasy is no different.
The fact of the matter is that you can still go around the internet, and find tons of people that hugely enjoyed the newer installments in the series - pressumably because their standards are lower(or different) compared to the older generation.
A company, thinking in terms of profit, is sure to notice this. Why spend ages, and tons of cash creating a product appealing mainly to a smaller section of the possible consumer base, when you can make a product with less effort that will appeal to the masses anyways?
You see this trend clearly in the music industry - Why should the gaming industry be any different?
Sakaguchi leaving and money issues etc, has surely had some impact, but gaming becoming mainstream, and everything that entails, is probably the biggest issue in my opinion.
Another factor, in terms of Japanese games like FF and MGS, is the Japanese culture and their view of story telling in visual formats.
The fact of the matter is that, despite their tradition of developing great games carried mainly by gameplay, Japanese gaming history has tons of examples of a deep gap between gameplay driven media and story driven media(not saying it's always like this though).
In many ways, the new generations of games focusing on cut-scenes and only partially interactive scenes seem deeply rooted in the "visual game novel" tradition. Many Japanese "gamers" seem simply to be more interested in the story aspect, than the gameplay aspect. In light of that, it's natural to put more focus on this from a developer point of view, if your main objective is to make money, or please the masses.
In that way, the direction of MGS and later FFs are only logical - It's imaginable that a lot of Japanese developers have always wanted to present their stories in this way(more akin to interactive movies, than games), but have been unable to due to technological limitations. If you think FF13 was difficult to endure, imagine if FF7 was presented the same way, but in that era of graphics, and sound.
(This trend is even becoming true for the west to a certain degree as well - Consider the casual gamers approach to gaming)
IMO both these explanations seem more likely in terms of FFs decline, as these explanations branch into the issue with a lot of other titles from Japan(and the rest of the world) that have taken a turn for the worse over the years since the second half of the PS2 era.
Also -
Although I agree in your general assessment of the series, I can't find myself to agree completely with your view on FF12-13.
FF12, while a completely different from earlier titles, was a good game in it's own right(I agree that the story was weak though - Lack of character development, and long stretches between ultimately short and unfullfilling story segments left a lot to be desired).
I imagine that if they had dubbed it "Final Fantasy Tactics : somethingsomething" or "Vagrant Story : somethingsomthing" instead, the difference would make more sense, and less people would have complained about it.
If it wasn't passed off as a part of the main FF series, I'd easily have rated it an 8 or something to that effect. Giving it 7 or less just doesn't make sense when you consider the vast amount of RPGs that are 10 times worse, yet rated in the 5-7 range.
Same can be said for FF13 - Where it fails as an FF game, it shines as an FF interactive movie. Unlike FF12, I have gripes with the gameplay(or rather lack thereof), but not so much the story - I didn't like it personally, but to write it off as bad story-telling IMO is disingenuous to the extreme.
If you look at the FF series over the times, the quality of writing has undeniably become better with the years, regardless of whether we like the character or plots or not. Consider the more sums of money they have to hire professionals to write, edit, and oversee the story, the better it will be in technical terms.
There is a big difference with the totality of a plot, and the way which the plot is presented with dialogue(and or dubs).
If we imagine FF7 made today, for the first time, but fleshed out by the people who do the work on the newer FFs, there would be a large different, and most likely for the better, in its expression. Anyone who says otherwise is either blinded by nostalgia, or has no idea what good writing is to begin with.
There is a big difference been something being technically well written, and something being creatively well written.
A creative product I.E much of what is related to the plot etc will always be something difficult to judge except by the most subjective of standards because everyone have different preferences for how stories should unfold or how characters "should" react in a given circumstance. Many people for instance, jump on any story ending abruptly with the victory of the villain, and call it bad writing, - which makes no sense whatsoever.
Similarly, one-dimensional characters are instantly branded as bad, yet I've met many people through the course of my life just as stereotypical and flat as your average RPG character - So go figure.
Technical aspects of writing however are much clearer.
The newer FFs(FF12 being the one exception I guess, but it's obvious that they weren't trying to create a story driven game to begin with here) are all, as far as I'm concerned, technically better written than the earlier ones.
I still consider the earlier plots better than the new ones - But they aren't expressed as well. Some of the dialogue in the earlier games, if you read it out aloud, are formulated like sentences you'd expect to find in a book for 4 year olds, or basic grammar books for students of a new language - "I am so drunk now, my head hurts." and stuff to that effect.
That's not good writing.
Personally, I found the cast of FF13 to do the job of resembling actual people much better than say FF8, which arguably had some of the worst character expression in the entire series(not counting anything before 4, and 12) - The only character with the depth to be called believable in FF8, was Laguna.
But again, discussion on those aspects of a game is hardly productive - With the right angle you could probably bombard the sh*t out of any game you'd like, given the time and place.
For the most part, your post was a great read.
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Yeah you are right... with time you can find more reasons for why things are going the way they are, and pandering to mainstream profits is definitely one of the biggest. Still, it doesn't help that fanbase accept it as well, they have no incentive to change.
Sakaguchi's Last Odyssey was decent and I believe, Last Story is supposed to be great. At least that dude makes an effort.
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This forum really is a breath of fresh air to other places you know. The differences couldn't be more obvious. It is great being surrounded by people who know how to debate a wider point, compared to a bunch of ridiculous fanboys who only know how to post macros. Kudos to the community of Qhimm. Seriously. 8)
I also wish people would stop deliberately using the word "linear" to suggest that X was in any way like XIII. It wasn't. X was a game with far more to do, far more places to go and did not do away with integral components of jrpg. The most desperate thing I ever did see was people making excuses for XIII when it first came out by trying to delude people into believing it was "just like X". They still do it now.
XIII had some things that were similar to X, same way a sink has similar features to a bathtub but they are not the same. One has more depth for a start ;)
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While I agree that X had far more to do, the way the narrative is carried is very similar. To boil it down to it's simplest terms, you can't do anything but progress the story until you hit the Calm Lands/ Zanarkand. Then it opens up a bit. In this respect, it's actually very very similar to XIII, where you can't do anything but progress the story until you hit the Archylte Steppe.
The only real difference in XIII is that you can't go backwards.
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But XIII doesn't even have any real NPC or towns like Besaid... it is just a literal gauntlet....
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While that's true, it's still just as linear. The only thing that takes away slightly from that linearity is to postpone progression of the story to talk to people, and that it occasionally takes effort to actually look for treasure chests. It's all an illusion put there to detract from the linearity, and the problem with the narrative in XIII is that there is no such illusion.
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The problem I have is that the "linear" argument is just a diversion to the other faults of XIII... before its release all I heard was "linear". I didn't realise it was gonna be literally a gauntlet... but I was more bothered with the aspects that weren't mentioned... the incredibly bad pacing, the cutscene checkpoints, the lack of any real towns or diversions or puzzles or minigames or NPC... just mindless fighting on a gauntlet, then 1 open area and no going back.
I object to X being made out to be XIII :)
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Again most of those things are true, but if we're talking about how linear the game is, it's very similar to how linear X was. That's all I'm saying. There are obviously other things about XIII that make it a worse game than X, but they're still both similarly linear in the same way.
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To be fair though, despite any illusion of freedom, all FF games are completely linear by most accounts.
Although you can sidetrack a few times, you're always on a one-way railroad track towards the end - There are no alternative routes(except in a few limited ways, like in the Shinra HQ), and no alternative endings. The only "non-linear" elements of the earlier games is a very few side-quests, and the ability to backtrack or dally around old spots - But you can't advance lest you move back on track.
Still, I agree that it's a stretch to compare FF10 with FF13. FF10 stripped away the world map - But that's basically it.
FF13 stripped away almost everything else that people consider the core elements of any good Jrpg.
As for Last Story - It's god damn amazing IMO.
It's the only next-gen j-rpg made since the end of the PS2 era that I consider worth mentioning at all in comparison to the old giants(FF6-10, Suikoden 1-2, Xenogears, BoF3-4, Vandal Hearts, Alundra, Chrono Trigger/Cross etc).
In fact, I consider it even better than some of the old classics.
It's the only Jrpg, where I haven't hated a single character from the main cast, and had no grudges with neither story nor gameplay.
The only drawback for me, was that it could have been longer and more massive in scale - But you can't have it all.
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Still, I agree that it's a stretch to compare FF10 with FF13. FF10 stripped away the world map - But that's basically it.
FF13 stripped away almost everything else that people consider the core elements of any good Jrpg.
Exactly. You speak Japanese no (to play Last Story)?
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Yes. I speak fluently(still struggling with Kanji though).
Worth mentioning that Last Story is pretty basic in its presentation so even the average anime fan should be able to get through it and grasp the gist of it(more or less everything fully voice-acted, semi-English menus, and all relevant information like item-names and place-names are usually related in katakana). Gameplay is also pretty straight forward to the point that it plays out intuitively for long standing jrpg fans as well.
I'd advise anyone to give it a try regardless of the language barrier. When I played my first FF game, I couldn't read English fluently, and back then there was no voice-overs to aid the effort - I managed it pretty well - So playing Last Story shouldn't prove that much of a challenge to most people I think.
Playing that game I think I realized how much effect Sakaguchi probably has had over the years on ensuring the quality of the FF games. It's one of my all-time favourite games, and it's the only game he has made since FF5, where he has been both director, and original concept designer at the same time, which seems to confirm the relation between Sakaguchis level of involvement and the quality of games being made :P
I'm almost willing to bet that if he got back control of the FF franchise, we wouldn't have to wait for much more than a year, until we saw a FF game with the old magic revived - But then that's not going to happen - So screw Square-Enix.
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I have to say I actually loved FFX the world was immersive the NPC's didn't seem fake, I thought the main characters were all great (which is rare for me especially given that it had voice acting) and hunting for treasure chests is one of my many joys in Final Fantasy games.
As for Tidus, I hated him for nearly the whole story, the part when the Fayth tells him he is a dream and he just acts the same I respect him for that. I know a lot of people hate Tidus but c'mon he had more of a personality than Squall, I hated that guy and all his dots.
Also as for the FFX was the decline of the FF series, I have to completely disagree while it had some elements that were shared by 12 it had far more shared by those that came before it. FFX-2 never happened its easier on my heart that way.
As pointed out by a few people FFX seems linear because it does not have a world map and while this may seem like a bad thing to many (including myself) it certainly has it's perks, I couldn't imagine FFX with a world map now because they would have had to remove the great looking nature trails. While I love the exploration of a world map I believe having these kind of "zones" sucks you into the world.
FFXII on the other hand scrapped away with the battle system interesting NPC's and story, while you can argue it had political story I do not believe a game where you can remove the main character and the story will remain unchanged can claim to have a good story.
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I know a lot of people hate Tidus but c'mon he had more of a personality than Squall, I hated that guy and all his dots.
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...Whatever.
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I liked squall, the whole point of his character was that he was a sociopath. Sociopaths do not go round partying and rave dancing. It was a good story. All the stories of FF were decent up to X in my view, and after that they got sloppy and amateurish. Just like the standard. :)
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Speaking of FFVIII what the hell was with NORG? It wasn't only me that noticed that it came up from no-where, was accepted by all characters without questions and was never spoken of again was it?
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yeah that one was baffling I agree... norg was the founder and recluse of garden... he formed it with Martine if I recall... But he just pops up one day as "oh yeah, this dude lives in the basement and he is the owner" He is mentioned again in certain NPC Shumi discussions.
Parts of ff8 were really well done, others were sloppy and forced. Same with IX and Necron.
I dunno why they localised it to NORG and not just Norg or Nog.
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I have to ssay my most hates part of 8 is when they find out they were all childhood friends, Why didn't any of them recognise eachother? It was too cliche' and coincidental for my liking. But I agree 8 had some amazing moments.
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I liked squall, the whole point of his character was that he was a sociopath. Sociopaths do not go round partying and rave dancing. It was a good story. All the stories of FF were decent up to X in my view, and after that they got sloppy and amateurish. Just like the standard. :)
I loved Squall. But he was in no way a sociopath! Hahaha. I think you've misused the word there. Look up the clinical definition of sociopath. I agree he had anti social qualities in the beginning of the game, but that was a completely forced/ fake attitude to deal with the abandonment complex.
The point of Squall's character is that he's in emotional turmoil from the very beginning but maintains his composure to focus. He is able to do this by keeping himself seperate from everyone, but then is surrounded by people who wear him down. Cracks start to show in his lone wolf resolve. He meets Rinoa, he becomes the leader of Balamb Garden. Shit goes down with Rinoa. Walls come down, very very emotional person. Almost the complete opposite of sociopathic, though I can see why someone who didn't properly know what it meant would think that.
yeah that one was baffling I agree... norg was the founder and recluse of garden... he formed it with Martine if I recall... But he just pops up one day as "oh yeah, this dude lives in the basement and he is the owner" He is mentioned again in certain NPC Shumi discussions.
Parts of ff8 were really well done, others were sloppy and forced. Same with IX and Necron.
I dunno why they localised it to NORG and not just Norg or Nog.
There are bits in every FF that are really well done or sloppy and forced IMO, though it's subjective.
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I have to ssay my most hates part of 8 is when they find out they were all childhood friends, Why didn't any of them recognise eachother? It was too cliche' and coincidental for my liking. But I agree 8 had some amazing moments.
again yeah, that is 1 of the usual hates of VIII and one I have to agree with. They explain it away by saying the GF give people amnesia, and that Irvine remembered because he hadnt used GF that often. It was poor exposition and writing there.
I also didn't like how light bulb head turned up at the very end... it was completely unnecessary.
On the plus side, the garden battle goes down as my favourite ever single moment in a Final Fantasy. The music, graphics, and story there were well executed. Plus Seifer is brilliant. Always.
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Too true the garden fight was one of my favourite ever final fantasy moments. The others being FFIX where Zidane turns into a loner, all of FFX's Rikku doggy paddle moments, FF7 Cloud beating on Aeris - Aerith in the temple. and the Gondola with Tifa scene in FF7.
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I also remember wakka makin me laugh blaming al bhed for everything.
reminds me, anyone got an official release of The Landing being performed by orchestra?
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I loved FF8, but at the same time had some really serious beef with it - First and foremost the GF/battle system.
I might have "misapplied it", but seriously, the first time I played the game, every battle was either (1) A massive draw-fest for stocking up on magic, or (2) Spamming GFs while using boost to deal with HP heavy enemies - Which meant that every singel battle ever fought was a chore and extremely boring.
Also, limit break system was retarded. I went through most of the game without getting a limit break even once(the only games that did limit break right IMO was FF7 and FF10).
My second beef with it was the lack of impact your choices for Squalls dialogue made in terms of personalizing the character -
I mean, every time you had a nice comeback, and a rude comback, it didn't matter what you chose, because Squall would ultimately revert to "whatever... I was just kidding" or something to that effect, and nullify the choice I just made.
My third beef was have the plot ultimately got butchered over time - Going from awesome(to the ending of the first disk), to wtf(from the prison scene and onwards).
As mentioned, the memory loss + childhood friends thing, strange new enemies popping out from nowhere(Norg, every witch except Edea), and a few a bit too convenient plot devises(like the discovery of ragnarok).
Sometimes, I'm almost(just almost ok) convinced the guys who made the "Squall is actually in a coma"-theory were right, because it's so sketchy at times.
My fourth beef was that I didn't find the enemies imposing or scary. FF7 did a great job in presenting the bad guys, surrounding them with mystery and giving you the feeling that you didn't amount to shit in comparison. I remember actually being worried about catching up to Sephiroth after the Nibelheim flashback, because I knew he'd own my party and I'd have to start all over again, or something to that effect, because I hadn't levelled enough or missed out on some necessary materias etc.
Jenova was creepy as hell - The Shinra building scene was like taken out of Resident Evil.
Ultimately, witches with large breast relying solely on magic that I can counter with reflect, isn't very scary.
But FF8 had great graphics, great soundtrack, Laguna(which is arguably the must human of all FF characters), some real beautiful and creative locations - And overall good style - So it's still one of the best overall IMO.
My two favourite FFs are 7 and 10. I think there is just something about the pacing and presentation of those two that I think stands out in comparison to the rest of the series.
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I agree 7 and 10 are the ones I place first and 2nd as well... 8-) I liked the junction system though and I didn't mind the limit system. I also loves the GF's :P The draw system could have been better thought out.
Soundtrack wise, 8.
I also thought 8 had a great ending, especially the causality loop angle. Its final dungeon was great too... real fun! 8 had some real strengths in the game play department and was none too shabby in story aside from some issues.
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I watched my brother play some of XIII the other night, and it reminded me of this hotwheels game I used to have on my computer; go foward, go foward, go foward.
Haha and the shops were some kind of little floating thing, like a save point? What........
And I remember being in like 5th grade christmas morning with my brand new ps2 and popping in X... when I got to that cutscene at the beginning with the song by the black mages and auron looking out over toward sin.
OMG. hahaha
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The only thing I really disliked about VIII was the being unable to return to any towns after disc 3 part. Not that any of them were super duper interesting, but it was always nice in VII before knowing the game inside out to be able to go back and hear random opinions on current events XD.
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as you prob know that was a limitation with the disc space :( same with ff9. They prob shut off parts to compensate for ending FMV... or at the least, thought they would need the space.
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Yes I knew that. Still pisses me off though!
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yeah me too... have to give em it for what they come up with in ff9... fuckin' Iifa roots?
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Hated those roots so much ff9 at the end felt like a world map and treno, the place was just baron and boring but hey the rest of the games great.
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Heh, I just spent a good hour reading this whole topic...
And now I'm going to turn into everything you seem to hate, DLPB.
XIII was (is, actually, as I haven't beaten it yet) a typical (aside from no Towns, nor memorable NPCs) Final Fantasy, and was well worth the time I spent playing it. It had the usual mix of annoying characters (Vanille and Hope, ugh.) and ridiculous weapons (A fucking boomerang, really?), and it had such an interesting take on the MP aspect of the Battle System, I was honestly quite amazed. Although, it did mean I pretty much never used the Summons...
All in all, I'd rate XIII as easily within my top 5 favourite FF games. Beats the hell out of VIII, as it doesn't have the major flaw in the most common part of the game (battles, obviously) which is the sheer effort which has to be put in, not for the strategy part, as this should be strenuous, but just generally. All you had to do was use Mad Rush on VIII, and that was most random encounters done for you, other than when you wanted to Draw, which resulted in about 15, 20 minutes of "yawn~ am I done yet?"
As for the purpose of your OP, the main thing I think of when trying to find some reason as to why games have gone downhill... I'd say is the technology. Games companies are finding that they have fewer restrictions, so they play around more. Eventually, the ridiculous amount of space on a BluRay (seriously, 50 GB???) will become old-hat, and until the next-gen appears (which is unlikely to have a different format) games will begin to pick up again, as ultra-high cinematic graphics will no longer be new. So... have patience, and play the older games until then.
Finally, I can't recall who said it, but someone did say that you shouldn't stick to one franchise / developer. To this point, I proffer NaughtyDog. Never have I played a bad ND game. :D
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XIII was (is, actually, as I haven't beaten it yet) a typical (aside from no Towns, nor memorable NPCs) Final Fantasy,
No it isn't. As has been said many times, it lacks core elements of what is considered FF and jRPG. Namely, numerous NPC, numerous minigames, sidequests, ability to go back to areas, puzzles, sidetracking from main path, full customisation and choices in battle to name a few. To try and say that XIII is the same as any other Final Fantasy isn't just wrong, it is a bare faced lie and/or delusion.
and was well worth the time I spent playing it.
Key word there. I. I really am wondering when this is gonna sink in. Whether you personally like it or not is not the issue or topic here. The numerous and observable factual flaws are. The fact that many people, like me, did not like this game due to said flaws, and that overall, its scores by both professional reviewers AND users is well below the norm for a Final Fantasy pre X-2.
It had the usual mix of annoying characters (Vanille and Hope, ugh.) and ridiculous weapons (A f*cking boomerang, really?), and it had such an interesting take on the MP aspect of the Battle System, I was honestly quite amazed. Although, it did mean I pretty much never used the Summons...
This is your expansive reply and defence? A 3 line rebuttal which then says you haven't even bothered to use Summons? I mean, I know I am coming across badly in this post in terms of "being nice" but what other way can I react to this?
All in all, I'd rate XIII as easily within my top 5 favourite FF games.
Again, this has nothing to do with it.
Beats the hell out of VIII,
personal opinion, but ignoring that VIII had far more to do, far more creativity involved and a story that wasn't completely amateurish. That's for starters.
as it doesn't have the major flaw in the most common part of the game (battles, obviously) which is the sheer effort which has to be put in, not for the strategy part, as this should be strenuous, but just generally. All you had to do was use Mad Rush on VIII, and that was most random encounters done for you, other than when you wanted to Draw, which resulted in about 15, 20 minutes of "yawn~ am I done yet?"
In VIII you could proceed the way you wanted to. Not just push auto battle and have 2 characters played for you through AI. VIII's system was great the problem. like with VII is that it was not implemented properly to make the game harder. XIII's wasn't just poorly implemented, it was a dumbed down piece of sh*t.
As for the purpose of your OP, the main thing I think of when trying to find some reason as to why games have gone downhill... I'd say is the technology. Games companies are finding that they have fewer restrictions, so they play around more. Eventually, the ridiculous amount of space on a BluRay (seriously, 50 GB???) will become old-hat, and until the next-gen appears (which is unlikely to have a different format) games will begin to pick up again, as ultra-high cinematic graphics will no longer be new. So... have patience, and play the older games until then.
Well, XIII conforms to this problem completely. Bad pacing and graphics over substance. Checkpoint paths. I dunno why you are defending it?
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Finally, I can't recall who said it, but someone did say that you shouldn't stick to one franchise / developer. To this point, I proffer NaughtyDog. Never have I played a bad ND game. :D
I agree, Naughty Dog are amazing.
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I didn't stick to 1 franchise, sadly they all gone to pot :-D
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And now I'm going to turn into everything you seem to hate, DLPB.
XIII was (is, actually, as I haven't beaten it yet) a typical (aside from no Towns, nor memorable NPCs) Final Fantasy, and was well worth the time I spent playing it. It had the usual mix of annoying characters (Vanille and Hope, ugh.) and ridiculous weapons (A f*cking boomerang, really?), and it had such an interesting take on the MP aspect of the Battle System, I was honestly quite amazed. Although, it did mean I pretty much never used the Summons...
What exactly was typical about it? Your only concrete example is "mix of annoying characters", and that's not really a good example, because this really falls down to personal taste.
Removing towns, exploration, party control, mini-games, NPC's, length, and depth, makes it more different than previous FF games, than similar, hence the term "typical" is completely nonsensical in terms of describing the nature of that game.
Finally, I can't recall who said it, but someone did say that you shouldn't stick to one franchise / developer. To this point, I proffer NaughtyDog. Never have I played a bad ND game. :D
Hardly anyone sticks to just one company. But as I said in my previous post, the trend of loss in quality is something that happens all across the board, not just in Square-Enix.
Besides, by your logic, even NaughtyDog will go to the dogs(*lowblow-alert*) in time.
In any case, there is probably some truth in technological advances being somewhat at fault -
Like a lot of people in music production will tell you - More possibilities tend to screw with your creativity.
With limitations, come the need for creative solutions - With possibilities come the confusion that follows lack of directives.
A lot of creative("cheap") solutions you see in old games(like the world map, where everything is tiny, and the character is huge) were the direct result of limitations, but they still worked out and ended up being central and enjoyable part of gameplay.
Now, it's possible to just use the old formulas and pimp them up with the new technology - Most people just gobble that up anyways.
The new generations of gamers don't smell the stink of degeneration that lies behind the pretty HD facelift used to cover up the same old dusty formulas - And the developers who try to do something new, are struggling by forcing out creative yet utlimately pointless changes, because innovation usually just becomes redundant when there is no limitation there to provoke it.
When we got the huge, 3D open world environments, this was a direct result of new possibilities - But where do you go from there? Bigger 3D open world environments? Do you revert back to the old "overworld" system, or just a bunch of corridors?
At the end of the day, there is a choice between going for the tried and tested, successfull formulas(or try to improve on them), or be innovative.
The fact is that a lot of companies don't do either, and end up failing at both.
They botch the working formulas, and their attempt at being innovative simply ends up with gimicky BS.
FF13 is a great example of this.
They've tried to improve upon presentation(graphics, FMV's, voice-acting etc), but they messed up everything else.
The only innovation lies in the battle-system, but it feels forced and unnecessary, rather than like something new and progressive in a good way. To illustrate this, just imagine if FF13 had been made with the FF10 battlesystem, or something very similar - Do you think anyone would notice? Do you think people would praise it less or more?
It probably wouldn't change a thing, and is why I don't consider the change to be very good in either case.
And how many people buy FF games for the battlesystem anways? When the battle system is the only redeeming quality of an RPG, you know something is wrong - This is like buy a fighting game, solely for the story.
Although old formulas should be upgraded, and improved upon over time - The old axion "There is no need to fix what ain't broken" is never more true than in most media instances.
Most new jrpgs are examples of what happens when you fail to heed this.
With the exception of Last Story, which btw, is scheduled for release in late February, for those who're interested.
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I don't think it is purely a case of them trying to innovate... with XIII they were simply more interested in graphical power and that interfered with the gameplay. Somewhere along the line they realised 3 things.
1. Graphics sell
2. Fanbase keeps biting.
3. Corridors and simple dynamics mean less brains need to be used in development.
They have gotten lazy, complacent, money obsessed and there are enough people buying the games so why shouldn't they? They do not have proper competition in this market either since the merger.
It is easy to create a game with the typical checkpoint gameplay... it is not easy to add in minigames, quests, battle options and make a decent solid story. XIII's story is retarded and amateurish, and from what I have heard XIII-2, as expected, is even worse. From retarded to intelligence insulting (assuming you have one to insult).
If you had asked me 3 years ago to predict how things would turn out, not even I would have dreamed there could be a XIII-3. I have never seen something so blatant. It makes me angry, but more angry that the series I loved is dead and reduced to this pitiful little shell.
They are now reducing themselves to simply using the exact same engine and material, cobbling up some graphical cutscenes and selling it as a game. I can't understand why ANYONE is still falling for this. I don't understand people who can see what I can see and yet go off down to the shop to feed these sly thieves.
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I think X-2, XII, and XIII all have PART of the puzzle. I think X-2 has maybe the best implementation of Job mechanics outside of Final Fantasy Tactics, if you can just ignore the story. Final Fantasy XII gives the open-world element that felt missing from Final Fantasy X (though FFX does a good job of distracting you from this shortcoming), even though the story is saliently unfinished after you get Berias. Final Fantasy XIII has a fun battle system once you play through the 15 hour tutorial.
I think you should look into the Shin Megami Tensei PS2 games if you haven't already (e.g. SMT 3: Nocturne, DDS, Devil Summoner, Persona FES/4).
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Everything's gone wrong.
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Everything's gone wrong.
:(