Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mako on 2012-08-15 02:15:39
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Hello all, with the release of FF7 Re-Release today, I'd thought it be nice to have a discussion on which version you prefer. Here are the pro and cons I can think of:
Re-Release:
Has .ogg support.
Much cleaner fmv's (then anything I've seen on Qhimm)
Battles look amazing, while staying true to the original.
Slightly easier to Mod in some aspects.
Original:
Support for great mods.
Better Backgrounds. (Does not seem like the shaders are used at-all in the re release on the backgrounds. Altering the shaders only affected the .fmv files.)
Fixed mini-games thanks to Dan. (This might be available in the future for the re-release)
Better translation options.
More graphical options.
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Me, I actually prefer the original over the re-release. The inclusion of .ogg, fmv, and battles aren't a strong enough case to deal with the horrible drm issues and the loss of really great mods.
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old.
there may have been many cons but these are all fixable and there are many pros.
with the new bugs were fixed to the point that it works something that shouldve been done initially instead of acting like microsoft.
in my oppinion fmvs arent that much better.
now cons the drm,
their cloud saves dont allow you to edit or use old saves they get deleted when you start up ff7
alot of mods have to be tweaked or trashed
achievements i was excited and let down simply because a true player of this game would get them all hands down
whats easier to mod about the new?
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whats easier to mod about the new?
Mostly the music aspect of it. Out of the box on the old we were forced to use FF7 music. A bunch of mods aren't needed anymore as well. (Audio, resolution, fmvs, ect.)
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i like the intro fmvs that Leonhart7413 put together. and now menu overhaul is set to not work, and team avalanches overhaul needs aali's driver
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Old.
First, it's nostalgic. I've been playing it since release day from this same set of CDs. :)
I'll have to do some comparisons, but I'd honestly be a little shocked if the FMVs in the new look even close to as nice as some of the stuff I've found here.
The music isn't really huge. I mean, generally FF7Music fixes the problem, and it probably won't be long before we don't need it anymore either, which will put the 'ease of modding music' at least to a tie.
Don't get me wrong though... while I'm rather unimpressed with this little 're-release', it's nice for people who just never did manage to find a reasonably priced copy. At the very least, they can play the thing (essentially vanilla) and experience it without spending 12 hours trying to make it run. That part is cool, and who knows how far we *might* be able to tear it apart and mod it a few months or so down the road.
I guess though, ultimately, as scarce as the thing had gotten, and in view of the minimal effort put into this release, I feel it really should have hit the e-shelves about 10 years back. If sales had gone crazy, it just might have given them that push to give us a REAL remake by now, and regardless, they'd have only widened their fan base larger than it is now by making the game a lot more available. Being made for download, it wouldn't have been at all hard to keep it (reasonably) up to date for modern hardware with patches either.
And no... I'm not actually expecting a remake --ever. But then, if all we had were expectations, where would all the orphaned dreams live? ;)
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I don't think these FMV are bad but I like mine better. Certainly mine are sharper.
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Actually I was gonna say, watching the FMVs fullscreen, the ones here seem to be a little clearer. I do like the OGG support, but I talked to Aali in the livestream that was posted here earlier:
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6044/aali.jpg)
So unless that was someone in the stream pretending to be Aali, I think it's safe to say he has something up his sleeve for the next driver update.
Also, what's different about the battles in the new one?
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maybe if we put the old and new releases in a room alone theyll breed and give us the best version of ff7 to date
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lol Squall
I still like the mods here on the original version. Since we're talking about FMV's, Rumbah 1280 Smooth are my preferred best.
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in bootleg there are so many options to choose from. i have to start writing stuff down. i know i like the intros put together by leonheart
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Well for now it's got to be the old one :) who knows it could later change in the future
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you forgot: con's of the re-release - SecureSHIT
I do not like malware on my PC. and secureROM is nothing but malware in disguise.
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you forgot: con's of the re-release - SecureSHIT
I do not like malware on my PC. and secureROM is nothing but malware in disguise.
SecuROM is annoying, and doesn't always work right, and has activation issues... but it's not malware. It is entirely harmless to the computer running it. Perhaps you've confused it with Starforce, which actually screws with your disc drive and whatnot. Some versions of SecuROM will refuse to launch your game if it detects CD mounting or copying software such as Daemon Tools is currently running, but will not actually change anything on your PC without permission.
Note: This is *not* to say that I actually like SecuROM. I don't. It doesn't work right, and it's too unforgiving with activations. It just doesn't fit the definition of malware.
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Yeah, the SecuROM is annoying, but it could be worse. We could be forced to have a constant internet connection like the DRM Ubisoft likes to use.
I'm sure Square will learn their lesson soon enough. When Spore came out with SecuROM, it became the most pirated game of 2008. This forced EA to publicly apologise, release an activation tool for Spore, and vow never to use SecuROM ever again (a promise which they've held up so far).
Considering the fact that Square don't work in the realm of PC gaming anywhere near as much as they do console gaming, it's clear they haven't learnt the finer points of modern PC gaming yet, in particular how DRM can ruin a release.
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Indeed, DRM for a 1998 game is simply unforgivable (especially considering almost nothing was changed). GOG.com has the right approach on this. Man, I'm glad I still have my original CDs.
We can just take the updated FMVs and use them on the old release, there shouldn't be any legal issues with sharing them here (After all, they are just upscaled PSX FMVs).
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We will not be distributing any files from the new release, FMVs included. While they may be upscales for the old PlayStation FMVs, the upscales themselves are new and technically under copyright (which we must adhere to more closely than ever considering the game is being sold legally now).
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We will not be distributing any files from the new release, FMVs included. While they may be upscales for the old PlayStation FMVs, the upscales themselves are new and technically under copyright (which we must adhere to more closely than ever considering the game is being sold legally now).
No problem.
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right not i like the rerelease over the old version just for the fact i dont need to patch it to pass the loading screen and fingers crossed wont have crashes in the mini games
patch wise i know a lot of the old ones dont work but it could make it easier to develop new patches for this version since we all have the same core files etc
but id love to play crisis core on the pc now
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SecuROM is annoying, and doesn't always work right, and has activation issues... but it's not malware. It is entirely harmless to the computer running it. Perhaps you've confused it with Starforce, which actually screws with your disc drive and whatnot. Some versions of SecuROM will refuse to launch your game if it detects CD mounting or copying software such as Daemon Tools is currently running, but will not actually change anything on your PC without permission.
Note: This is *not* to say that I actually like SecuROM. I don't. It doesn't work right, and it's too unforgiving with activations. It just doesn't fit the definition of malware.
plz2realize when I exaggerate for comical effect. SecureROM does nothing of value. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And it actually stops people from playing the game. Theres a lot of Malware which is less annoying than this.
We will not be distributing any files from the new release, FMVs included. While they may be upscales for the old PlayStation FMVs, the upscales themselves are new and technically under copyright (which we must adhere to more closely than ever considering the game is being sold legally now).
Well, not publically. In the forum. Whatever people do after they arrange a meeting over private messages and file hosters has nothing to do with us. COUGH.
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It's been about three years since I last touched FF7 on the PC, and at the time I was able to put in the effort to patch, tweak and mod the installation so it played better than ever. Now I'm abroad with just a laptop and no access to my physical game collection, yet I'm able to experience smooth and trouble-free gameplay, enhanced thanks to the brilliant UMI as well as the ease with which the music can be replaced. If I were to revisit my old installation from 2009 (which still exists on my main computer at home), I'd need a couple of hours to get fully reacquainted with it.
I'm a firm supporter of mods and enhancing any vanilla experience, but usually heavily modded games require time, patience, and a certain mindset before one can truly immerse themselves.
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new. no more headaches because of lack of updates of Aali's driver if one wants to use the newest one. and perhaps one with full-screen shaders will come for the new version.
also, no more idiotic disc change, altered registry path for movies etc.
No more awesome UI. but perhaps that will come in time.
And WallMarket works, so I can only guess proud cloud will too. some of the most well-done mods will still work. others might follow.
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New
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Old. I like new world map that you cant get with the cash in. I like my menu project and a few others that you have to have aali's driver for. The "new" game is only good if you want to play a mostly unmodded game out of the box.
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For vanilla VII, obviously the new version is much much better. But also obviously, people here are going to want to play with mods, and if you want to do that, it's obvious which version to use. So this isn't really much of a discussion? XD
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I might be fairly unique among long-time members in this, but I actually prefer the new release. The only mods I ever really used to begin with were Aali's driver for high resolution/bugfixes, and FF7Music to replace that awful midi. Since the new version can do both of those anyway, I really appreciate the overall lack of headaches that comes with it.
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I might be fairly unique among long-time members in this, but I actually prefer the new release. The only mods I ever really used to begin with were Aali's driver for high resolution/bugfixes, and FF7Music to replace that awful midi. Since the new version can do both of those anyway, I really appreciate the overall lack of headaches that comes with it.
Now that they can both be modded equally, I prefer either. You speak of headaches, and my only one is that all the mods for main characters are a mash-up of different arts and styles. Maybe it's a girl thing, but I really like to match. I am still grateful for what we have though :)
I can't fathom playing this game now without FacePalmer's Field Pack, Unified Model Installer, and Menu Overhaul. They are just amazing, and I'm very glad that they work with the new version.
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I wonder how limited we are when adding new music to the game now, and if we could potentially use all new tracks, via scripting.
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what do you mean, all new tracks? you could use ff7 music + custom ost and just use whatever music you want?
unless I'm totally misunderstanding something here.
for example, this plays when I go to the gold saucer in my game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbSKE3nomeQ
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He's not asking about replacement tracks. He's asking about additional tracks for modding, that don't use up an old spot.
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Now that they can both be modded equally, I prefer either. You speak of headaches, and my only one is that all the mods for main characters are a mash-up of different arts and styles. Maybe it's a girl thing, but I really like to match. I am still grateful for what we have though :)
I can't fathom playing this game now without FacePalmer's Field Pack, Unified Model Installer, and Menu Overhaul. They are just amazing, and I'm very glad that they work with the new version.
They don't. Menu Overhaul and translations don't. Translations may do one day, Menu Overhaul is almost certain never to. FeliX's graphical improvements like world map won't work with the new game either. All of these use Aali's driver.
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They don't. Menu Overhaul and translations don't. Translations may do one day, Menu Overhaul is almost certain never to. FeliX's graphical improvements like world map won't work with the new game either. All of these use Aali's driver.
she means with kranmers patch. but yes it is important to clearly state what version mods work with 1998, 2012patched or 2012 especially with the increase of newcomers to the site
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Yes, I was referring to 2012 patched.
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In that case it is no longer the new game. Once you have used that patch it is then the old game almost 100%
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Now that they can both be modded equally, I prefer either. You speak of headaches, and my only one is that all the mods for main characters are a mash-up of different arts and styles. Maybe it's a girl thing, but I really like to match. I am still grateful for what we have though :)
This:
(...) Once you have used that patch it is then the old game almost 100%
Not to O/t: Either. New if I had to choose because it works out of the box.
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I say either, because if you patch it you get the same end result anyway.
And I know I'm probably in the minority, but I really prefer the bigger characters to the SD models, even custom, not as lego-like ones. I remember the first thing I thought when I played FF7 way back is that they looked like they were kids.
And this is very strange for me, considering FF7 is like my favorite game - and all my other favorites I don't really like to play with "updates" beyond resolution. I play Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Daggerfall, Thief, etc. all with the original graphics.
I mean, I prefer playing with these graphics:
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/938126721225842190/3B5BAA035318B72FEBFD53F0F2A2C2368D939E5E/)
to this
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/651001246778887236/BB01A009479075FB8FDFB6A7266057DA331589C6/)
As good as the bottom one may look, and even though I can run it I much prefer the original graphics, which is why I find it so weird that I like playing FF7 with all the GFX mods.
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i couldnt find the way to personally message you but my email is [email protected], thanks.
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i like the old one better.
textures seems to clean in new version.
maybe with new textures and better lighting/shadows (enb modding has allready begun on new re-release) the new one will be better .... eventually ;)
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As one of the few people long time gamers who simply did not play FF7 back in the day, I decided to go buy this "re-release" version a week or so ago and was horribly disappointed. So much so that I got a second hand copy (for more money than I'd like to admit) off ebay and after installing the massive 19gb Bootleg 0039 package i learned about via a google search for a high resolution texture pack, which directed me to these forums... I am VERY happy. I've played about 40 hours now and am loving every minute of it. At first though, I didn't think I'd get that emotional attachment to the characters, which is a hallmark seen in only the greatest video games made. In all honesty, that scene in the City of the Ancients proved my initial thoughts on the game COMPLETELY wrong. I started this game without any knowledge of the plot or character specifics.... and man was I floored. Im hoping she comes back in some way later in the game, especially since there is plenty of foreshadowing to support this.
I gotta go back to playing before I read any spoilers and ruin it for me... :)
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you could just have converted the re-release with a patch and saved yourself all that money
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It seems like the old has more opportunity for now. I wonder if the pros of the 2012 release could be modded and improved or blended with future mods to create something that's got all the pros and none of the cons? But it is nice being able to digitally get FFVII for ten bucks. And if the current mods basically turn it into the old version (but better with the mods) then yeah I'd say old version all the way lol.
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So which takes up more space on the HDD? The original 1998 Eidos version, or the rerelease with kranmer's mod?
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using a maximum install of 1998 vs rerelease the rerelease takes up for space. the rerelease contains all files while a max install of 1998 would load movies from cds. modded or bootlegged the rerelease probably still more because the patch and boot leg probably dont clean out all the unneeded files
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Okay, thanks. Sounds like I need to head downstairs and grab the old disks.
edit->
New version before patch - 2.21 GBs.
New version after Kranmer's 0.3 conversion patch - 2.36 GBs.
Old version 'Maximum' Install - 415 MBs?!? Wow that's a HUGE difference. (This is the version that comes in the trapezoid box and 3 page fold-out CD case).
Also lol @:
(http://www.5-rings.com/images/Information_2012-09-01_06-44-45.png)
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Okay, thanks. Sounds like I need to head downstairs and grab the old disks.
edit->
New version before patch - 2.21 GBs.
New version after Kranmer's 0.3 conversion patch - 2.36 GBs
Old version Full Install -
-_-; I select 'install' and nothing happens. Either my install disk is shot or I need to do some studying on how to get this thing to work on Win7. :P
That happens sometimes. Boot into Safe Mode, then install.
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That happens sometimes. Boot into Safe Mode, then install.
Worked like a charm! Thanks Alyza. Updating previous post.
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like i said a max install of the old release is meant read the movies from the cds. If u use disc images and mount them the total size of the install plus the size of the discs will probably be higher than the rerelease.
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Okay, thanks. Sounds like I need to head downstairs and grab the old disks.
edit->
New version before patch - 2.21 GBs.
New version after Kranmer's 0.3 conversion patch - 2.36 GBs.
Old version 'Complete' Install - 415 MBs?!? Wow that's a HUGE difference. (This is the version that comes in the trapezoid box and 3 page fold-out CD case).
yeah there is a few reasons why the old one is smaller then the new one on a full install,
1: Original game keeps movies on the CD where the rerelease has them on the HDD (if you copy the old movies to the HDD the filesize will probably be similar).
2: Original game only comes in the language you buy it in but the rerelease comes in multiple languages (which means it has multiple movies and LGP's for different languages which increase filesize)
On the release you could probably delete the languages you are not using to cut down the filesize after a installation of the release if you need to save on space and maybe reencode the videos but you shouldn't need to do this unless you think 2GB is too big.
Also my converter for new to old increased the filesize because it copies movies that are in a different folder into the correct folder (it copies instead of moving because if it moves files the rerelease may have problems, i try to keep it so the rerelease will work as much as possible).
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That makes sense.
Rerelease with the following files removed brings it down to 1.74 GB:
.\FINAL FANTASY 7
ff7_de.exe
ff7_de.exe.bak
ff7_de.exe.manifest
ff7_es.exe
ff7_es.exe.bak
ff7_es.exe.manifest
ff7_fr.exe
ff7_fr.exe.bak
ff7_fr.exe.manifest
.\FINAL FANTASY 7\data\langde
.\FINAL FANTASY 7\data\langes
.\FINAL FANTASY 7\data\langfr
Tested and it still runs fine without those files.
So it seems to me that, at the moment, I prefer the original if I want to run Bootleg. It seems to leave the most room for necessary mods.
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also there is a few more files you should be able to get rid off which are quite big (over 100MB each), if you go into
.\FINAL FANTASY 7\data\field
you should see a bunch of files like
sflevel.lgp
gflevel.lgp
fflevel.lgp
those 3 are for different languages (s for spanish, g for german and f for french, the english one is named flevel.lgp so make sure you keep that one)
if you look in a few other folders there are even more like the mini-games folder but to be honest most of the other folders are only small files.
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also there is a few more files you should be able to get rid off which are quite big (over 100MB each), if you go into
.\FINAL FANTASY 7\data\field
you should see a bunch of files like
sflevel.lgp
gflevel.lgp
fflevel.lgp
those 3 are for different languages (s for spanish, g for german and f for french, the english one is named flevel.lgp so make sure you keep that one)
if you look in a few other folders there are even more like the mini-games folder but to be honest most of the other folders are only small files.
That got me down to 1.51 GBs, very nice!
EDIT -> Actually, I did a little more hunting and was able to get it down to 1.31 GBs. I went ahead and wrote a batch file. You run it from within your installed directory and it keeps the language of your choice, removing the rest.
-Before: 2.21 GB
-After: 1.31 GB
http://www.5-rings.com/other/FF7%20De-Bloater.bat (http://www.5-rings.com/other/FF7%20De-Bloater.bat) (Right-click and 'Save As')
Update: Fixed an issue with Spanish mode and re-upped.
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thanx for looking into that. its kinda cool that it can be shrunk down that much. maybe that bat can be included into kranmers patch
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That got me down to 1.51 GBs, very nice!
EDIT -> Actually, I did a little more hunting and was able to get it down to 1.31 GBs. I went ahead and wrote a batch file. You run it from within your installed directory and it keeps the language of your choice, removing the rest.
-Before: 2.21 GB
-After: 1.31 GB
http://www.5-rings.com/other/FF7%20De-Bloater.bat (http://www.5-rings.com/other/FF7%20De-Bloater.bat) (Right-click and 'Save As')
Would you mind if i add this into the next version of my new to old patch ?
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@kranmer: I don't mind at all and I'm glad people are finding this as useful as I did.