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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Giffen1 on 2003-01-17 05:38:02
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A Different Look at FF7's Story
by Bart
Okay, this is my first editorial, so bear with me while I do the obligatotry introduction. My name is Bart, and I love RPGs. I am not an old-school or a new-school gamer, I just like to play the games. Anyway, I wrote this because I've seen a lot of people talk about the story of Final Fantasy VII and very few, if any of them, seem to realize what I'm about to point out. So, without further ado, here's the editorial:
Lets start off with a little quiz here, to refresh your memory in case you haven't played the game in a while:
1) When is the first time, outside of the flashback in Kalm, that you see Sephiroth in the game?
2) Who did Cloud give the Black Materia to at the Temple of the Ancients?
3) Were you upset when Sephiroth killed Aeris?
Now, I know you think these are very simple questions, and here are the answers most people probably gave. 1) The boat from Junon to Costa del Sol. 2) Sephiroth, and 3) yes. However, every single one of those answers is wrong. Sephiroth was not on the boat, or at the Temple, and he did not kill Aeris.
But wait, you say: I remember all of those things happening. And yes, you saw them, but you probably did not think about them enough. The real answer to number 1 is the North Crater, just before the Weapons are released. Prior to that scene, it is not Sephiroth you see, but Jenova. How many of you remember this quote, "The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova." It is given by "Sephiroth" in the Crater, while Cloud is being shown his "true" past.
Once you realize that it is Jenova you are chasing everywhere on Discs 1 and 2, a lot of things in the game begin to make more sense. Going back to answer 1 above, do you remember how Sephiroth didn't remember who Cloud was in that scene? That's because it was Jenova there, and she had to reach into Sephiroth's memory to see who this person was. When you meet again in Nibelheim, she knows who you are. Jenova is also responsible for the massacre at the Shinra Building, the killing of the Midgar Zolom, and many other acts attributed to Sephiroth in the first half of the game.
So, does this mean Sephiroth is blameless in everything that happens? No, it does not. He chose to destroy Nibelheim, he chose (or agreed with Jenova) to try to absorb the Lifestream. It was Sephiroth who summoned Meteor. But he was killed in Nibelheim, by Cloud. It was only his great will that kept him from joining the Lifestream. Jenova was merely using his form to travel around because she knew it was powerful and would have a great psychological impact on people she met.
edit----i dunno if u guys saw this editorial already...but i jus got to find it quite by chance while looking for an FF7 story i could read to refreshen my memories about the actual storyline of the game (4 year absence from it)...it makes a lot of sense...storywise and it's something i never even thought of before i read the article ( i know...i know...a bit daft..yeah?)
thanks.
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Ok, interesting. Definately gives me a new scope on my theory. However, I have one little problem. During the nibelheim incident, Sephiroth severs the head of Jenova and carries it off. When Cloud throws him into the lifestream, Sephiroth manages to hold onto the head. I don't think Cloud killed Sephiroth during the nibelheim incident; it just doesn't look like he does. Later, I'm assuming that the headless body of Jenova is moved to Midgar. They probably froze the body there to keep it preserved for future jenova experiments. Once Jenova escapes midgar, it seems that it would take one hell of alot of energy to get moving after being frozen, and even harder to do anything without a head. Just a thought. I still like this theory, mostly because it is different from the others I hear :P
However, my theory involves a perfect clone of sephiroth with some missing memories (he might not remember cloud on the ship until he realizes that cloud has jenova cells) wandering around carrying the corpse of Jenova. I'd assume that the little "chunks" or "seeds" that the clone would drop were pieces of the original Jenova body; they would then transform into the strange-looking Jenova bosses that the player would fight throughout the game. Then, you might ask how the clone leviatates and does all of those nifty twisty moves? Think back to when you first see Vincent, or else see Vincent at any point in the game. He can leviatate. When you open his coffin, he does a double backflip in mid-air. Maybe Hojo puts a test run of some strange anti-grav hormones into Vincent; the same hormones are then used later in his kick-ass Sephiroth clone. I dunno, I think it's possible.
I feel that my theory, as much as that one, have their strong and shaky areas. At one point you say "hey, that makes sense", but then you look at another aspect and it just doesn't seem to work out.
Cool, and welcome to the forums 8)
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Hmm I've known the party was chaseing Jenova thoughout the game for ages. They actually tell you ingame this is true when the party retrieves the Black Materia after slaying Jenova in the North Crator.
Going back to answer 1 above, do you remember how Sephiroth didn't remember who Cloud was in that scene? That's because it was Jenova there, and she had to reach into Sephiroth's memory to see who this person was.
Hmm thats an intresting point. But whats a point better looking at is who is in controll thoghout the? Jenova or Sephiroth? I'd say Sephiroth since he was the last man smileing sort of thing.
Yeah the levitation thing is weird. Cloud does it to in Disk 2 remember. Vincent dosent "exacly" (does he? I dont remember) do it. I remember the double backflip out the coffin (yay), but I dont remember him flying apart from that. Then again... "The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova.". Hmm? Vincents limit break? Vincent might have had some form of Jenova cells inplanted into him as well when Hojo experimented on him. The levitation must simply be an ability of Jenova.
And what of the flashes? I think someone explained once that white flash = Jenova red = Sephiroth. Any one remember about this? Have I got it round the wrong way?
Well thats all I can think of bringing to the table right now...
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It was me....but either Square forgot midway which was which, or the flashes just represent different kinds of pain. I can't remember where the two different flashes happen, but I do remember they weren't consistant. All I can say right now is that they have to do with Jenova's abilities of recalling false and half-truth memories from it's host, or people around the host.
And Sephiroth wasn't the only one that wasn't really Sephiroth. Cloud wasn't Cloud. I could never completely thread out the Cloning thing in FF7, there is always a knot left in the string, when I think I've come with a solution
You say you found it strange the Sephiroth didn't reconize Cloud? Did you forget that Sephiroth never meet Cloud? Sephiroth's partner wasn't Cloud, it was Zack. Zack fought along side of Sephiroth, not Cloud. Cloud was a regular Shinra guard, who was very far from Sephiroth's thoughts.
Of course, the last person's face that the real Sephiroth saw was Cloud's, I guess that could hold some debatible truth.
So, let's take this a step further. In Cloud's false memories, Cloud first confronts Sephiroth in Jenova's Sanctrum, then flies out the door. In his true memories, we see Cloud kneeling beside Tifa and Zack flying out of the door. Why is it that Cloud can remember the conversation and images within the Jenova Sanctrum, if he was outside that door, with Tifa (where all those pods are at).
This is also true before the incident....when Cloud was protecting Tifa during the Journey to the Mako plant, And Sephiroth wouldn't let Tifa inside the Mako Factory. Why is it that Cloud remembers the Tantrum that Sephiroth had when he put two and two together, and that thing came out of the pod. The real Cloud was outside protecting Tifa.....
I'm guessing that Jenova is a living virus, exactly like that creature in the movie, "The Thing", you know....the movie with Kirt Russle.....it's now a game....I'm sure you all know the movie I speak of. But Jenova has these special ability, of changing conscience.....and reading minds......maybe even keeping a part of her host's true conscience in tact....I don't know. My thoughts are not very focused, right now. I'm thinking, a cross....a cross between the thing, the gual from SG1 and the borg from Star Trek. And everytime we see a flash, it's Jenova finding a false memory, or a made-up answer.
The only thing that I can truly iron out is that, if Cloud never scanned Tifa in the very begginning of the Story, (not the game). Cloud would have never been Cloud (in conflict with the Evil Jenova influence...borg style), and the story of FF7 wouldn't have never happened. If that gives any consolation or adds to the magical story of FF7.
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I got something else from that game. I think that the original Cloud, born in Nibelheim, was the same cloud throughout the game. Why?
After Sephiroth is thrown into the lifestream, and missing(assumed dead), Cloud collapses, probably because of the amount of blood he was losing. Tifa, Cloud, and Zack's lifeless bodies are found in the Mako reactor. Some Shinra scientists take the bodies, still alive, back to the mansion in
Nibelheim. They stitch up Tifa's slight flesh wound, and have her sent to Midgar, sector 7. Zack and Cloud, however, get a worse fate. Their bodies are used for experiments with Jenova cells. After the testing is over, which took several years (I'm assuming), their bodies are suspended in a bright green liquid, probably Mako. Later in the game, you can visit the Nibelheim mansion for clues. The books say it all, and a sequence also plays when you go there on disc 3.
The sequence shows Zack and Cloud escaping the underground lab. Cloud is barely able to move, so Zack has to carry him around. Finally, the two young men hitch a ride to Midgar, and decide what to do. Zack, being the only one able to speak, says to Cloud that they are going to be mercenaries. At the end of the sequence, it shows Zack carrying Cloud up a hill. A gunshot is heard, and Zack is hit in the arm with the bullet (I think, at least. Square did a bad job on the field sequences). Zack pulls out his sword and investigates. Zack tries to defend himself and Cloud alone against Shinra soldiers, but loses. He is shot to the ground, then shot repeatedly afterwards. The Shinra soldiers leave Cloud to die, because he was already lying on the ground, near-unconscious. After they leave, Cloud stands up and limps over to Zack's lifeless body. He picks up Zack's sword, and runs to Midgar. Camera pans upward, and it begins to rain.
Cloud is found later in Sector 7, Shinra, passed out. Tifa finds him, and assumes that he is Cloud(and she was right!). Within time, Cloud regained voluntary motion, and lived partially-convinced that he was Cloud, born in Nibelheim. He seeked the truth of this throughout the entire game, however.
The lab reports in Nibelheim say that Zack and Cloud were affected by the Jenova cells differently. I have a screenshot from one of the reports here (http://kucoru.cjb.net/affect.jpg). Zack was unaffected, but Cloud fell into what seemed a coma. The amount of Mako he was exposed to, and the Jenova cells, did not do his body any good. This is probably the reason for his memories being screwed up. However, his most important memories, the ones he was strongly emotionally attached to, remained. On of them was his hatred for Sephiroth. Some fragments of memories remained, but they were finally recovered once Tifa took a trip through his mind. Since it WAS about five years after the nibelheim incident when that Cloud arrived in sector 7, it makes sense for Tifa to somewhat not remember Cloud. Throughout the game, she was trying to tell Cloud that he wasn't at Nibelheim 5 years previous, but she could not find the words to tell him, and she also didn't remember what exactly happened at Nibelheim until much later.
Oh, about the flashes. I was assuming that they were messages from Jenova talking to Cloud. Some of those flashes, like the first white ones at the beginning of the game (when you stay at Aeris' fake-mom's house) were the deep memories of Cloud being remembered by the "inner-cloud", which is basically the little kid version of him. That little kid version of cloud was also seen during the part where cloud gives sephiroth the black materia; he is the guy you can move around to direct Cloud away from Sephiroth. He was also in the "Cloud's Mind" sequence. However, the red flashes, I think are messages from Jenova/Sephiroth. The first one that shows up in the game includes someone saying: "Watch out! This is more than a reactor!". I dunno, maybe that was said when Sephiroth and everyone visited the reactor in Nibelheim.
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I take the "Watch Out!" Part as Being Zack. Yes, Zack is still alive. I have -very- good reason to believe he's the sick guy in the tube at Midgar. Why? Because you encounter a Sick guy who looks -exactly like- the one in the tube at Rocket City. He's stuck in the bathroom at the inn, I think. Therefore he's trying to run around helping the team out, following them, forcefully using the Jenova inside of him as some sort of compass. Remember, Cloud absorbed a good bit of Zack during thier whole "experience", so it's reasonable to assume either he's telepathically communicating with Cloud, or that it's the part of Zack inside his mind that's talking to him.
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Ok, if Zack is the dude in the tube in Sector 5, Then I'll assume that he is "2" in Hojo's freak-list of Jenova experimentees. Hmm, if the Zack has a "2", who is the "1" that Dio talks about when the party visits Gold Saucer for the first time. I've talked to other people about the guy with the "1" tatoo, and all I've really heard is that the "1" would be Zack. Then, why was "1" looking for the black materia?
Who knows? There are plenty of people with spiked hair in FF7, but I wouldn't be surprised if Zack was helping them out. However, he did get shot a TONS at the "Zack&Cloud escape" sequence. I'm talking about a clip of bullets.
That one guy who is sick in Rocket Town doesn't really seem like Zack to me. I couldn't imagine a strong fellow like him to have diarrhea throughout all of FF7.
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I thought the guy with the "1" tattoo was Sephiroth, or the Jenova-Sephiroth clone thing.
Sephiroth wanted to get the black materia, so you ended up following his trail around the Gold Saucer and stuff, and everytone mentions "the guy with the black cape" or "the guy with the Number 1 tattoo", before giving you the direction which he went in.
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Yeah, that's what I was getting at. The "1" guy is the 100% sephiroth clone, as I see it. However, most people I talk this about reject the idea. I think I know why.
[EDIT] wrong..there was no identical sephiroth clone.
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umm . . . Sepiroth's tattoo was on his arm . . . unless Hojo had some kind of . . . thing . . . for Cloud, I don't see why his wouldn't have been in the same place . . .
I think the reason Cloud DOESN'T have a tattoo is because Hojo thought he failed with Cloud. Remember Cloud WAS barely conscious when he and Zack escaped.
As far as how Cloud knows what Zack saw in the reactor . . . Zack was a member of SOLDIER. All members of SOLDIER had been injected with Jenova cells. Jenova experienced what Zack did, and used that to twist Cloud's memory.
I kind of think the flashes go something like this: When there's a white flash, it's right before a Jenova influenced memory in Cloud's mind, almost like it symbolizes Jenova generating the memory inside of Cloud. The red seems to happen right before Jenova actually takes control over Cloud, or tells him something in his mind . . . sometimes that "inner Cloud" talks to him, too. I can't remember what happens then . . . I kind of remember a black screen right after Cloud falls off the bridge in Midgar, right before he meets Aeris, where the "inner Cloud" is talking to him, something about "Back then you only scraped your knees" or something.
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Actually, the person who did visit Gold Saucer with the "1" tatoo, whether it is Sephiroth or not, had it on his hand.
But yeah, Cloud probably didn't get a number because he was a failure. I also think that SOLDIER members only got Mako radiation, but I don't think they put in Jenova cells. The guys that were inside the mako reactor of Nibelheim, however, apparently had Jenova cells. At least that's what I recall. I don't remember them saying SOLDIER members having Jenova injected. Can someone please prove me wrong with this with a screenshot?
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I'm too lazy to do so, but I know Cloud said so when he told everyone the whole story on the Highwind.
Anyway, If Zack isn't the sick guy, then who is? He's obviously following them around...
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I didn't find it that obvious that Zack was following them around. The guy probably got cut in half by all of the bullets that were pumped into him when he was killed. I never saw any extra objects(Zack) on the screen stalking Cloud during the adventure. I feel that Cloud essentially became Zack, in hopes of being someone he couldn't. Maybe Zack was "with them" in their minds, but I think that the only Zack hanging around was the unconscious lie that Cloud was living.
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I am going to have to bring up Lucrecia, if you remember when you first see her with Vincent.
Vincent: I thought you were dead!
Lucrecia: (Something about being hard to kill when infused with Jenova's cells)
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Ok, I'm making a correction. I re-did the "Finding Cloud" Sequence and you are correct. SOLDIER members do get Jenova cells. The reason why Cloud and the other Sephiroth-clones ended up being able to be possessed by Jenova is because they were weak. Apparently, only the ones who were in SOLDIER who got Jenova injections were the ones able to resist possession.
So, with that said, I'd assume this. If Zack survived being shot, then the real Sephiroth is still alive. Therefore, Jenova candidates are more resistant to physical harm. And since it was made quite clear that the real Sephiroth was still around, with his appearance in the North Crater(right before Meteor is summoned), then maybe Zack was hanging around after all. I never saw him, or even saw many clues of him, so I can't say whether he was or wasn't.
Also, during the "Finding Cloud" sequence happens, Cloud says that Hojo was in fact trying to clone Sephiroth. Maybe one of the experiments got successful, and that is what the party chases throughout the game. I wouldn't be surprised if "1" was Zack; Jenova had no effect on him, so maybe he was the 1st "succesful" clone. Cloud didn't get a number because he failed. Later on, I bet Hojo made some experiments that are higher than "13", as opposed to Red XIII. What if the ones after 13 were a success to the point where one is identical to Sephiroth?
To Sfx: I forgot she said that. Looks like I'll be going back! I've always thought it was her spirit wandering around in that cave. She always seemed to be disappearing a little too fast...
Ah yes, another thing. I just finished Disc 2 again, and got inspired with some interesting inferences. When you get to the top of the mako cannon, you find Hojo messing around. He then sees you, and starts talking about how he is "helping his son". Apparently, he is aiding Sephiroth by sending mako over to the north crater. While in battle, I noticed some interesting similarities between Hojo and Sephiroth.
1st part of the battle: Hojo in his still-human form. He calls upon some creepy monsters (probably Jenova experiments) to aid him in battle. After you damage the human Hojo enough, he says something about "if the mako energy has taken effect yet". He transforms.
2nd part of the battle: He turns into a freakish thing with two tentacle-like limbs. The center of his body has an ellongated head, and a red orb-like organ near his abdomen. While looking at the red thing, I thought about the 1st sephiroth battle. Sephiroth has a yellow orb in the middle of his body. Awfully similar if you ask me. You slay the ugly beast, and another monster pops out.
3rd part of the battle: He turns into a leviatating thing that looks like one of those floating monsters from Quake1. This one really doesn't look similar to anything, but the way it leviatates reminds me of the "One winged angel" form of Sephiroth. Okay, it's not an exactly 100% concrete, but you've got to admit the forms are a bit similar.
Now, it seems to me that the amount of Mako energy that Hojo sent to Sephiroth allowed him to transform into the beast(s) that you fight at the end of the game. Why was Jenova all puffed up in a sphere like she was when you fight her at the end of the game? This is what I think:
As far as I know, the only part of Jenova that stayed near the real Sephiroth was the head. It probably mutated into what it could because of the Mako energy.
Any objections? Or else I'm making an ass out of myself.. :wink:
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Yup, you hit it right on the head of the Nail, Bart. That theory has to be right. I always thought that it was some other being carrying around parts of Jenova. but after re-playing parts where there is crucial evidence, I am convinced. Hojo's little Jenova Reuinion Theory proves it all. The real sephiroth cuts off the head of Jenova during the Nibelheim incident. He takes it with him when Cloud throws him into the lifestream. After this, Hojo is in despair because he cannot find his (son) ultimate experiment, Sephiroth. So, he devises a plan. By taking cells of Jenova and placing them into "weak" people that cannot handle Jenova, they will eventually lead Hojo back to the real Sephiroth. The Jenova body desires to be whole again.
So, five years pass after the Nibelheim incident. Zack and Cloud escape the lab in Nibelheim. During this, Zack tells Cloud everything that he missed. Things like his experiences with Sephiroth, and conversations that Cloud wasn't present during. That's how Cloud remembered what they said when he wasn't there. Although the limp body of Cloud seemed helpess and unconsciouss, he was listening. Eventually, the two get to Midgar. Zack is killed. Cloud finally regains consciousness to find Zack lying on the ground.
Cloud arrives at Midgar, and wakes up and sees Tifa. He says her name first, so I am convinced that he is the real Cloud. If he was "created" piece by piece, he would not have known Tifa's name before she talked to him. Eventually, Cloud meets up with a girl, Aeris, who is captured by the Shinra because she is an ancient. Cloud and his group go into the Shinra building and get captured while attempting to escape.
*This part is a theory*
Hojo proposes to Rufus to get something Rufus has longed for forever. Hojo plans to release Jenova onto Rufus's father, and makes it seem like it is all Sephiroth's fault. Rufus then becomes president. Since Hojo knows that Rufus is easily persuaded by Hojo's words, this is more beneficial to Hojo than Rufus knows.
*Back to what has 100% evidence*
Hojo releases all of his creatures (and headless Jenova), and signs his resignation letter. He gets the hell outta there. Jenova crawls out of her cell and drags herself up the stairs to president Shinra's office. She shapeshifts into Sephiroth just for show, and kills him with a "masamune". Meanwhile, with word of his father's death, Rufus heads over to the Shinra building to retieve his presidency. Rufus proposes to ally with Cloud, but Cloud refuses. So, Cloud and his group escape Midgar. Meanwhile, the headless body of Jenova goes ahead of Cloud and his group, beckoning him to follow...
And throughout the game the group IS in fact chasing Jenova. I am officially renouncing my 100% clone of Sephiroth theory, because that is not what Square meant by Sephiroth-clones. When the player reaches North Crater, the one they are chasing (Jenova in the form of Sephiroth) says that "This body is losing its usefulness". After that, the group fights Jenova DEATH, and retrieves the black materia. The headless Jenova harasses Cloud and his group for one last time about Cloud not being who he is. Why is this?
Jenova doesn't recognize the Cloud who threw Sephiroth into the lifestream as a person who was born. Cloud was pretty much "reborn" when Jenova was injected into him. Although Cloud's memories were muddled, and he hosted Jenova cells, he was still the same Cloud born in Nibelheim. Jenova thinks that Cloud is only five years old because the non-jenova-hosting Cloud was dead to her. I hope that makes sense..
After that, Cloud, Tifa, and another person appear in the same room where Scarlet, Hojo, and Rufus are. Jenova, disguised as Tifa, tells the one who holds the black materia to bring it to Cloud. Once that happens, Cloud becomes controlled by Jenova. He gives the real Sephiroth the black materia, and it all goes downhill from there.
Now, the real sephiroth obviously goes far down into the North Crater. However, I don't know what happens to the headless form of Jenova. Either she dies in the explosion, gets stepped on by one of the weapons, merges power with real-Sephiroth, or else goes into the North Crater to hang out with the real Sephiroth. I'm down with either one, but I like the one where she gets stepped on by Diamond weapon :D
If you want to re-live most of the evidence I just spewed, I have a savegame that is saved right before the sequence where the real photograph (Zack, Tifa, Sephiroth) is shown in the illusion-nibelheim. PM me if you're interested.
I think I summed it up pretty well. Thanks Bart, you gave me a real insight!
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I think that Jenova heads down with Sephiroth.
If you remeber, Bizarro Sephiroth and the One Winged anger are rock had compared to Sephiroth's final form (the one on one). What I'm thinking is that the first two forms are the Jenova augmted versions of Sephirith, and the final form is Sephiroth after Jenova is defeated.
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Jenova is defeated? I dunno about that, it's a part of Cloud and Shinra's 1st rank soldiers (maybe more)!!! Moreover, if they make FFVII-2 (meet Jenova's generations - FFVII Episode II Attack of the Jenovas ) lol
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Jenova Synthesis, the monster you fight right before Bizzarro, is the headless Jenova.
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Jenova is defeated? I dunno about that, it's a part of Cloud, Tifa and Shinra's 1st rank soldiers...
Tifa has jenova cells? Did I miss something?
Also, I think they somewhat hinted that cloud was freed from jenova at the end of the game. green and red energy (red enegry was released from sephiroth when he exploded) enters cloud, but only green comes out. I wonder what that means.
Ok, if you fight headless jenova before bizzaro sephiroth, I'm assuming that Sephiroth merged with the head of jenova. This would make Bizzaro Sephiroth and One-Winged Asshole sephiroth.
But still, do you notice the similarities in the mutation processes of both Hojo and final Sephiroth? Please say something (*wink wink* say yes).
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If Jenova have their own DNA (ex - Mitochondria and etc.)
Yeah, it will produce RNA and mutate (injected person!)
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I forgot literally everything in biology. All I remember was the teacher handing out crappy busy-work. She would then make us dissect pig fetuses, and force us to NOT know anything about what we are doing. Then, she'd hit us in the head with a baseball bat while we're not looking.
I briefly remember RNA, but the teacher didn't try hard enough to explain it. What a WHORrible teacher. I hated high school freshmanism.
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Hojo IS Sephiroth's Dad, thus the similarities. Lucrecia and Vincent both explain to you during the course of the game that Lucrecia was seduced by Hojo. Hojo is THAT evil, he experimented on his own son. He injected Jenova cells into Lucrecia and then the fetal Sephiroth while he was still in the womb. Plus, he went through Mako-radiation treatments while he was a young child.
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Lucrecia and Vincent both explain to you during the course of the game that Lucrecia was seduced by Hojo
C'mon. No man as ugly as Hojo could seduce ANY woman. Look at that freak. He looks like an in-bred neanderthal the way his forehead extends from the rest of his face. The "monkeyface" gene was a recessive one, so sephiroth didn't end up like that FREAK!
Lucrecia probably got really drunk one night while she and Hojo shared a box of wine. Damn, that "scientist" is a cheap idiot, too. The next morning, Lucrecia pops in the room and says "I'm pregnant". Hojo puts his hands together menacingly and says "excellent". Hojo was surprised that he was able to even make a baby. He lasted for two seconds in the bedroom; Wimp. Most idiots like Hojo would say "You're WHAAT?!" and start cursing.
And so Hojo submits Lucrecia to host the first production of the Jenova Project. Silver-haired baby is born, the end.
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Wait sec... beach girls digs Hojo remember? lol
And it is just a game... btw Rub that wasn't funny...
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Ok, ok. It was a little gross.
I'm sure someone found it funny..
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I'd had found it more believable if say Sephiroth WAS the son of one Vince and Lucre...then altered to suit Hojo's needs for an experiment.
U know wut? I DO remember reading about that particular issue...i just don't remember where.....(c'mon 4 years is a long time :z )
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Really..why? Vincent never got a chance to even prove his love for Lucrecia. She was already with Hojo, so that's why she didn't want him. Vincent tried to prevent Hojo from submitting her to the Jenova project, and was killed for it. "In the name of science" as they would call it.
There might be another view to it. Vincent somehow is the father of Lucrecia's baby, and tries to protect his son by refusing to let Lucrecia participate in the experiment. However, there is absolutely no evidence of that even being true. I do believe that Lucrecia even says something to the effect that she was "naive back then", but I can't remember.
And since at least SOMEONE, Hojo, admits to being Sephiroth's father, I'll have to stick with that. Lucrecia even says that she was in a relationship with him. It's all there. Sure, you can write all the fan-fiction about Vincent being the father, but that idea doesn't go along with what was explained in FF7.
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Hmm. When discussing FFVII theres a few ways of looking at it:
100% gaurentied facts
Slightly hinted facts
And therory
Theres very little in FFVII thats right 100%, even some of the stuff that is, is controdicted when you pull up the surface of the carpit... but since the game TELL's us Hojo is Sephiroths father I'm assumeing it to be true. However, did they say they ever actually had sex? I'm sure I remember something about that but its been ages.
One thing I keep meaning to do is start FFVII again (I was working though the DRY Psx Usa FFVII a while ago) and note down anything that dosent make sense. I noticed a lot of stuff getting out of Midgar and in Clouds past that was a bit "huh". Could be intresting if me and a few others were to do that...
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Another thing that needs to be touched on here, while it isn't explained well in the amercan version, in the Japanese, it is clearly explained that the Sephiroth you've seen before the North Crater is a "Psychic Shadow," A projection of Sephiroth's self from his center of power into the rest of the world... I beleive completely that 5 years ago, he was killed, but his will was too strong to submit to the lifestream, so he just flowed through it to the northern crater and Re-coalesced himself... I am also firmly under the beleif that Sephiroth had no control of his actions, he was just a tool for Jenova. So, once Sephiiroth had collected enough energy from the lifestream to form his shadows, Jenova had him send one to retreive her from the Shinra building. And for imprisoning her, and draining the amount of energy they were getting, Jenova had Sephiroth kill Shinra. I beleive that Sephiroth was a much, no MORE of a puppet as Cloud. And I highly doubt that at the end of the game Jenova has been destroyed, in fact, that's the only way I see a sequel working... Actually, I've layed out an entire sequel... in my head.... I need to type it up and see what people think. On another note... If the guy in the pipe was Zack, wouldn't Aeris recognise him? I mean, even with a haircut, he's still her long-lost love...
Well, that's my 2 cents. For now.
~Contra~
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he must've dyed his hair too lol
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Eeeh, I don't remember that... just two weapons were new to me!
A`re maybe only Ruby Red was new to me >.,<
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Okay.. I better clear this up, before I get in trouble.. I didn't finish a thought there... -I- haven't played the Japanese version.. my Japanese is basica and atrocious... I know people who have, both IRL and online, and they have told me that that was explained... I could be wrong.. If I am, then I still think that's right, it's just a theory. It seems to make sence to me. I've just heard that the Japanese storyline in general is much more coherent than the english one... *shrugs* So... I guess you can say that is hearsay, and not submit it to the court, if you so desire... I'm just helping pwople think.
~Contra~
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I really doubt that the guy in the tunnel was Zack..
It's just a personal opinion. Aeris would not have been able to recognize him anyways, because it had been about 5 years since she had heard from him. So, it all boils down to that we probably will never know who any of the clones seen in the game were, so I say we just stop thinking about it.
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I just had an idea: How old are Vincent, Lucrecia, Hojo, and Sephiroth? Sephiroth was born of Lucrecia and Hojo, yeah? Vincent was with Lucrecia before she done the experiment with Hojo. How old does Sephiroth look to you? Late twenties? What did Vincent sleep in, a cryogenic freezer? Just a quick thought, correct me if I'm wrong.
-Dan
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Okay... I guess this is all just speculation, but I always thought Sephiroth was treated to some sort of growth acceleration... That's just me though.
Vincent is kinda ageless, I don't think he can grow physically older in appearance, just because of the experamentation. That explains his story.
If you accept the growth acceleration theory, it puts 4 things about 15 years ago... The war with Wutai, the birth of Sephiroth, Vincent's torture/sleep, and Aeris' arrival in Midgar. These things all could happen about the same time, because it is that Gast and Ifalna were together in Icicle Inn after Gast left Shinra and Hojo took over, and Aeris arrived while the war was going on, as Elmyra was waiting for her Husband. Here is a summary, in order.
LEADING UP TO AND AROUND 15 YEARS AGO
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War with Wutai begins.
Gast discovers Jenova.
Young(er) Hojo interested in Jenova project.
Gast works on Jenova project, studying the 'Ancient'
Gast realizes Jenova isn't an ancient. Begins looking for a true ancient.
Finds Ifalna.
They fall in love.
Gast leaves Shinra, flees to Icicle Inn with Ifalna.
Hojo becomes head of Shinra Science Department, begins working with the Jenova project more. Reactor 1 exparaments begin.
Aeris Conceived.
Sephiroth Conceived. (Arguably, Sephiroth's conception is rape... I mean.. would YOU screw Hojo?)
Sephiroth born, was experamented on in womb. Affected him and Lucrecia. Lucrecia dies in childbirth.
Vincent (Now a Turk) goes off the handle, bitchslaps Hojo. (This would go with the Rape theory...)
Vincent tranqed, experamented on, and locked in the basement. He goes to sleep.
Icicle Inn stormed by Hojo's men, Ifalna flees with Aeris to Midgar, but gets shot in her escape.
Ifalna and Aeris arrive in Midgar, Ifalna dies, leaving Aeris to Elmyra. (Let it be noted, Midgar probably DIDN'T have the plate structure or the Shinra building then. Shinra only became a true superpower AFTER the war, when they became more than a weapons company. They were only dabbling in Makou at this point.)
[/list:u]
You see? It all works out quite well. And if you were to say that Hojo was around 25-30 then, it would make him 40-45 now. It is reasonable to assume that Lucrecia was around 21. Vincent was probably about the same as Hojo, but his appearance is locked from the experamentation. This is how I interpereted the whole thing. Agree or Don't, it's just what I think.
And no, Vinny just slept in an every-day coffin. =\
~Contra~
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if Lucrecia died.... how do we talk to her in that cave?
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That was a ghost. o_o I think a side effect of Jenova cells on that level is a near-total inability to remerge with the lifestream after death. Hence, Sephiroth just reforming in the northern cave. Granted, sephiroth did return to it in the end of the game, but how much work did that take, eh?
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the thiong said something about "strong will" having to do with not going to lifestream
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Sephiroth...
Vincent...
Vincent
!!!
Vincent
"That voice?
It can't be..."
Vincent
"Lucrecia...?"
"Vincent......?"
Vincent
"Lucrecia!!"
"Stay back!!"
Vincent
"Lucrecia...
You're alive..."
Vincent
"Lucrecia...
You're alive..."
Lucrecia
"I wanted to disappear...
I couldn't be with anyone...
I wanted to die..."
"But the Jenova inside me
wouldn't let me die..."
Lucrecia
"Lately, I dream a lot of Sephiroth...
My dear, dear child."
"Ever since he was born
I never got to hold him, even once..."
"Not even once.
You can't call me his mother...
That...is my sin..."
Vincent
"Lucrecia..."
Lucrecia
"Back!!
Stay back!"
Lucrecia
"Vincent...
Won't you please tell me?"
Vincent
"......What?"
Lucrecia
"If Sephiroth is still alive?"
"I heard that he died five years ago.
But I see him in my dreams so often..."
"And I know that physically, like myself,
he can't die so easily."
"Please, Vincent
tell me......"
Vincent
"Lucrecia...
Sephiroth is dead..."
Received "Death Penalty"......
Received "Chaos"......
Vincent
"Lucrecia......"
Okay.. If I remember correctly, Lucrecia faded both in and out in that scene... She is still alive, but her body died. Hence, she is a ghost.
That is exactly ripped from the PSX version, with the exception of the substitution of strait quotes for the dynamic quotes 7mimc uses. (and this forum doesn't comprehend).
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The only thing is, Aeris is 22 years old. That means Gast had to have left Shinra at least 22 years before FF7 starts.
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*nods* I labeled the list 'LEADING UP TO AND AROUND 15 YEARS AGO' I probably should have made that more clear. It's end is years ago, it begins a sopmewhat indefinate length before that... BTW, How old do you think Aeris was when she arrived in Midgar? That will help me make this clearer.. and I'm simply not sure. =/
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http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc2.txt
The tapes are near the top...if you read them:
The Daughter records always confused, me. The naming of Aeris....IF it's a girl she'll be named Aeris that's that....
10 days after birth.....I think it should have been read 10 days after conception....or 10 days, before birth...
Then, Hojo waited 2 years...for this new sample, Aeris? but the tape is labled 20 days after birth. Aeris seems to be already born in this tape, though. But the counterdiction lies in the 2 years or 20 days....
I think it's 20 days....so Aeris is about 3 weeks old when Hojo takes her and Ifalna. I don't think they escaped....Hojo took them to Shinra Headquarters, and later they made the escape to the lower sections....
Aeris is about 7 or 8 years old when she is taken in by Elmyra
quote:
Elmyra
"Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor."
Barret
"...What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"
Elmyra
"...Not her real mother. Oh... it must have been 15 years ago..."
"...during the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far
away place called Wutai."
http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc1.txt
Proof of Escape from Shinra:
"Aerith and I became close very quickly. That child loved to
talk. She used to talk to me about everything."
(We are back at the living room, but some time past. Aerith as a young
girl runs down the stairs, then trips on the rug. Elmyra rises from the
table, helps her up, hugs her, then Aerith scampers out the front door.
The living room disappears off the top of the screen.)
"She told me she escaped form some sort of research laboratory
somewhere. And that her mother had already returned to the planet, so she
wasn't lonely... and many other things."
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Yeah.. this whole storyline, while amazing, is a bit of a bitch to understand... I think it should all be written up once we figure it out.
To save other people from making this same discussion.
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sorry im writing this reply whilst being extremley tired and not having played the game for about 5 months so forgive me if im a little off, but here are my points:
1) Jenova is an alien that crashed intpo the planet 10,000 years ago or whenever hence the northern crater
2)Hojo injected himself with jenova cells took lucrecia to a nightclub, took her home then raped her, hence sephiroth was born.
3)Sephiroth was thrown into the mako type stuff by cloud and was sucked thru to the center of the planet and stayed there ever since.
4)Using his mind and the power of jenova he created the illusion he was causing havoc accross the planet.
5)Cloud could fly because the jenova cells inside him were made active.
6)sephiroth had the power to create illusions using jenova, hence he showed nibleheim being burned and when u fight him at the end the planets are not really destroyed.
7)Spehiroth is the only ever person to be born with jenova cells as part of the natural DNA due to hojo being a spanner.
8)The Weapons were created by the planet to destroy everything. why? To guarentee to get rid of all evil.
9)I beleive all humans are extinct after the 500 yrs at the end. why? because bugen said its up to the planet to decide. It would make sense to me to kill of the humans with their life sucking technologies. Also if they were still alive why7 would Midgar be left like that? ie, not knocked down or anything.
10)the laughter at the end is Red XIII children. How did he get them when he was the last in his species? god knows
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Well, sphiroth was exparamented on while he was in the Womb. I don't think Hojo had exparamented on himself yet.
I simply thought Midgar had been abandoned by man and overgrown..
And lastly... Yeah? How the hell did Red XIII have a kid? Obviously, they must find more of his kind somewhaere along the line. Either that, or... Nanaki is Female, and was already impregnated, and the species has a MAJOR Gestation period... But that isn't true, because while Hojo's an ass, he isn't dumb enough to try to mate two females.
I wish I could get on the staff for VII-2. I have a whole sequel made up... In my head...
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maybe hojo took lucrecia to the HoneyBee Inn lol
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People, people... Let's set this straight, please.
Hojo and Lucrecia got cozy together, and after that he infused the womb with Jenova cells... Thus Sephiroth was born, and het got a tattoo of number ONE on his hand... The game clearly states that numerous times.
Cloud throws Sephiroth in the Lifestream, 16 years later in the Nibelheim reactor. Where does the Lifestream end up? The Northern Crater, where the Earth's most powerful source of energy is. Logically, this is also the place where the WEAPONs reside.
Sephiroth is crystallised here, just like any mako energy that reaches the surface, and he is sort of a fossile at that moment. He has Jenova's head with him; he took that from the reactor.
Following the Reunion Theory, Jenova's body woke up, and started moving towards the Northern Crater to get her head back. All other parts of her started moving as well at that moment. Why at that moment? I think Bugenhagen states that; thanks to the cries of the planet. Jenova did not cause that. Shinra did.
Anyway, to get Sephiroth back to life, the person who would follow out her task, and to summon meteor, she needs the black materia. That is why Jenova takes the shape of Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud, the only succeeded 'clone' still in power of thinking at a normal level... His head filled with confusion, maybe because of the Jenova cells, and maybe Jenova even manipulated him in thinking all that stuff about himself.
Jenova lured Cloud along, but did not expect an Ancient to be with him. Which is why she tried to get Cloud to kill her. When he did not, she did it herself, in Sephiroth's form.
Sephiroth awakens when Cloud gives the Black Materia to him: The Materia that reverses creation: It turned the crystal effect on Sephiroth BACKWARDS, causing him to revive.
In the end, when fighting Bizarro Sephiroth, you can clearly see two arms moving over Sephiroth when he moves... Like somebody plays him... As a puppet. These are obviously Jenova's tentacles.
Jenova is the true evil, Sephiroth was just abused, Cloud was abused, everybody was manipulated in her schemes... The only one that gave a twist to it was Hojo, who gave Sephiroth enough power to outlive Jenova and build out his own scheme...
Because when Safer Sephiroth is beaten, Cloud faces the REAL Sephiroth... An easy opponent, because he probably still is at the level 50 he was during the flashback...
I hope I didn't miss anything important. if I did, let me know.
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Heh, in all actuality, that Sephiroth has 0 HP. If you use Game Shark or something to get an enemy skill materia in that fight, with the skill ???? and use it, it will do 0 damage... and kill him.
But I agree, Sephiroth was an innocent. The only true evil force in FF7 was Jenova, and Jenova controlled them all. However. I don't think Jenova took Sephiroth's form, just controlled him, neither do I think that Jenova ever communicated directly with Cloud.. that whole white flash/red flash thing.. they are all Sephiroth.
On another note.. this is a dead post. Don't revive anything that hasn't been replied to in over a week, unless it is stickied.
~Contra~
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Nobody knows what the hell they're talking about. It all boils down to opinion.
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Contra, if it was Sephiroth the entire time:
1. Why was he still locked in that cocoon in the Northern Crater;
2. Why did Tifa say: "So you mean we've been following Jenova all this time?" okay, it wasn't exactly that, but it meant the same. Somebody with the script to the game, help me out here, she said it after they beat Jenova in the Whirlwind Maze.
And true, indeed, Sephiroth has 0 HP during that final battle, but that battle you are supposed to win: it doesn't matter how powerful or not he is at that moment; this is the true sephiroth, a shell of his former self, and Cloud wipes him out easily.
Try using Change instead of Omnislash: Sephiroth will then attack, hit Cloud for a good 2/3 of his HP, and Cloud will counter with a relatively weak attack, killing Sephiroth anyway.
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God this is great!!! XD
I remember I beat this game in sixth grade! I still love it to death, but when I was that young I guess I didn't catch all those intricate details you guys picked up!
I got the main storyline. I should really play it all the way through again to see if there's something else I pick up. Heck, even start my own theories. Long live F F VII!
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Those sephiroths were sephy's psychic projections of himself. I don't remember that line.
I'd look into it but I have very limited comp access right now, I'll get back to you next week once my internet is back up.
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I remember Hojo saying something about "his" Sephiroth controling the Clones, this was right before he shot that cannon into the barrier. And I remember Sephiroth turning into Jenova....
So, my conclusion, they weren't psyc. projections, per say....more likely, the Sephiroth they were chasing was the headless Jenova. The supporting evidence would be that blood trail that was left behind, by the headless Jenova, when Cloud and party escaped from Shinra Headquarters. Even according to Aerith' mother, Jenova could shapeshift.
So...not projections....just Jenova.
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Another idea I mentioned before was that Hojo managed to successfully clone Sephiroth. Hojo set the cloned Sephiroth free, and it managed to take Jenova out of storage. The cloned Sephiroth then dragged the lifeless/headless body of Jenova up to the president's office, killed him, and escaped.
In some ways this makes more sense than the "it was jenova the entire time" idea. For example, how could a headless body, which was bleeding mind you, manage to drag itself up like 5 flights of stairs? And why would Jenova cut off pieces of itself for Cloud et al to fight? But it still doesn't explain why the Sephiroth you chase throughout FF7 can fly/float. Only ghosts can do that, right? Well, Vincent sure could fly. He jumps out of the coffin and does a double backflip! And you bet your ass that floating like that is Hojo's trademark.
But still, the "it was Jenova the entire time" seems to be more whole as far as an idea goes. And Sinister is right on that one. How could it be THE sephiroth if he was in the North Crater the entire time? A perfect clone would explain it, but Jenova explains it much better. And you're right, Tifa says: "Not Sephiroth!? You mean all this time it wasn't Sephiroth we've been after?" At another point Jenova/Sephiroth says "All I wanted was a body. A seeing, hearing, moving body. Soon it will be over..." I think it was right before the battle with Jenova. So what could that mean?
Yeah.
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wow, i did'nt expect the ff7 story to go this deep, amazing.
one thing that always did confuse me in the end is cloud the real cloud (from tifa's memory) or is he a fake (as hojo says he created him piece by piece), or is there another explination?
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No, he's the real deal. Hojo probably did re-construct him piece by piece after the Nibelheim incident. Remember how Sephiroth lifted Cloud up with is sword? I'm sure that would cause a ton of injury to anyone. And..Cloud was a candidate for being injected with Jenova cells. He was considered a "failed experiment" because the cells screwed him up so badly. The mako treatment also didn't help.
There never was a fake Cloud. Cloud was just very confused after the Nibelheim incident, so he had to make something up so he could actually function in life. Another bit of proof is when Cloud shows up in the sector 7 train station. He says Tifa's name before she even recognizes him.
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Only after the Flash......does, Cloud say Tifa's name. The same flash you see whenever, Cloud is possessed by Jenova.
And did you ever talk to the two guards on the bottom of the screen of where the Midgar pillar is at.....(the field map before, Tifa's bar)....One of the two guard, is named Cloud....at least that's how it reads....could be a translation problem.
The truth is: FF7's story is incoherent. So everyone comes up with different meanings of what's happening, and of what happened.
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Heh, in all actuality, that Sephiroth has 0 HP. If you use Game Shark or something to get an enemy skill materia in that fight, with the skill ???? and use it, it will do 0 damage... and kill him.
could he have 0 hp becasue of the gameshark? lol
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Not when the code puts an enemy skill materia on cloud.. we all know the enemies are stored in very different locations in the game...
~And so returns the prodigal Contra~
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The final battle between sephiroth and cloud seems to be a representation of cloud breaking the chains between himself and jenova. Watch the final fight, then watch the final movie and you'll see what I mean.
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Then why not place a Sense materia there? Besides, Final Sephiroth's HP is completely irrelevant since the ending is scripted to occur after the first hit. All you see is FF7 switching over to the ending movie, the battle does not actually end normally and thus his HP remains unknown. :)
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The only problem is that you can't use any abilities or magic in that battle. All you can do is omnislash, regardless of whether you have it or not. However, if you have a counter materia hooked up to sense, I believe that cloud will counter an attack from sephiroth with sense. I'll go try that out...now...
[EDIT]
And it turns out that there is no possible way to sense sephiroth. Even if you have no counterattack materias, cloud will automatically counter sephiroth after he hits you. So sad...
In the end, when fighting Bizarro Sephiroth, you can clearly see two arms moving over Sephiroth when he moves... Like somebody plays him... As a puppet. These are obviously Jenova's tentacles.
No! There are no friggin' tentacles. It's sephiroth's hair. He has two long "things" of hair that stick out in the front, kind of like the front of aeris's hair.
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Well, the other day I was thinking to myself "Which game is better - FFVII or Chrono Trigger." Even though I didn't come up with an answer to that question, it did get me thinking of the depth of FFVII's story. Here's what I came up with on the Sephy/Jenova theory. (Some of it seems backed up by proof, alot is just speculation.)
The 'Sepiroth' you chase the around the world on Disc 1 is actually the headless Jenova Hojo had contained in the ShinRa building. If you remember, at some point in the game (Jenova or Sephiroth, I can't remember which) says "The power to change one's appearance is Jenova's" or something along that line. Also, the confusing dialog between Cloud and Tifa in the Nothern crater where Tifa says "So you mean it's not really Sephiroth we've been chasing this entire time." (It's my opinion that something was lost/screwed up in that conversation during the translation.)
As far as who's in control - Seph or Jenova - well, with my theory, it's kind of hard to just pick either or. You see, as I take it, Sephiroth IS Jenova. His thoughts/experiences and Jenova's thoughts/experiences are one in the same. He was injected with Jenova cells at his conception, and he grew to be made up of some human genes, and mostly Jenova. For all intents and purposes, Sephiroth is a genetic clone of Jenova. Hence the Number one on his arm. He's the first clone (of Jenova, not himself.) As far as Sephiroth being a victim - it depends on how you look at it. If you take Sephiroth for what he is - Jenova, then he is not a victim. He is the ultimate evil. But if you look at Sephiroth the human, what Sephiroth should have been hadn't Hojo tampered with him, and you see that his life, his free will to choose to be good or evil, his memories, etc. were taken away from him before he ever had the chance to live - then yeah, you could consider him a victim, depending on what your view is on conception and life.
Jenova knew that her body (the headless thing in the ShinRa building) was physically dying. (This is shown at the end of the game, when you fight Jenova. If you don't kill her in the time allotted, she just self destructs and dies. I'm not sure if she's supposed to do something that kills your characters, because the one time I actually witnessed what happens when the counter runs out, Jenova was out of MP.) She knew that, through Sephiroth melding with the planet, her essence would live forever, as Sephiroth. Which is why the reunion took place in the Northern crater - Jenova's body was gathering where Sephiroth was, preserved in Mako at the center of the crater.
Jenova (from here on out, unless I specify otherwise, when I refer to Jenova, I'm talking about her headless body.) knew that she needed to get the black materia to the Northern Crater. She took the form of Sephiroth, because she knew that form would intimidate people (especially Cloud. Cloud played an intergal role in her plan. She knew Cloud was powerful physically, and she also knew that she could easily take control of him when the time came, because of the fact that he was mentally weak and had Jenova cells in him.)
When you fight Jenova at the end of the game, that body dies. Then you fight Sephiroth, who is of course enhanced by the power of Jenova, since he IS Jenova. When you defeat the One Winged Angel, Jenova is dead.
The battle between Cloud and Sephiroth, I believe, is taking place in Cloud's mind. It basically is to symbolize Cloud finally being completely free from the influence of Jenova. Even though he'll carry the DNA with him for the rest of his life, since the essence of Jenova is dead, it doesn't matter. He has his own free will back and doesn't have to worry about being controlled any longer.
I pretty much think that's what I came up with - if I think of anything I forgot, I'll just add it in later.
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The battle between Cloud and Sephiroth, I believe, is taking place in Cloud's mind. It basically is to symbolize Cloud finally being completely free from the influence of Jenova. Even though he'll carry the DNA with him for the rest of his life, since the essence of Jenova is dead, it doesn't matter. He has his own free will back and doesn't have to worry about being controlled any longer.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking at first. But it still doesn't explain why after you defeat the One-Winged Angel, Cloud is shot out of his body, and then a cinematic of him flying through some sort of earthy tunnel plays. But it would make tons more sense with the "in the mind" idea, just because it does. Unless Cloud went back into the lifestream to make sure that a vile being such as Sephiroth would not infect the lifestream. It sure explains why Cloud says: "Lifestream?" after Sephiroth blows up in the final cinematic. It makes even more sense because Aeris's hand reaches to "pull" him out. Either way, the villains are dead.
But I'll follow up on my post up at the top of the page. If you notice, Sephiroth blows up and red spirit energy flies outward. The screen cuts to Cloud, looking dumb as ever. Suddenly, green and red spirit energy flow around him. Both energy streams enter his body, and a green flash follows. Only green spirit energy flows out. So I'm guessing that means that Cloud was purified of Jenova's influence.
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ahhhh long posts *hides*
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...There really isn't too much there, that says it's Aerith's hand that we are seeing....The only clue we get is the music, but there are no gold braclets on the wrist. I guess the music is enough....but they should have drawn in that braclet.
The story is just too, incoherent. The only reason why so many people remember FF7, is because of what happens to Aerith. If that never happened, FF7 wouldn't have been anywhere "near" as popular.
As for the tunnel, and the Final, "Final Battle".
....It looks more like a detour, to me. If you noticed, the tunnel has some soothing colors in it; then you see something that looks like a moon. Except the moon doesn't have any kind of floating globes drifting aroud it, that I know of.....So, it can only be concluded that it's in fact, "Holy".
Then the detour happens; we pan down, and and go through a tunnel that seems different from the first one......That's when we meet Sephiroth. Apparently, blocking Holy from being summons.
Now the question is...where are they during this final battle (I mean, all three final battles) Sure didn't look like any type of reality place to me...looked like a dream world. The same dream world that was visited by Cloud and Tifa. It's never answered. Perhaps it's some kind of Purgatory.....a place between the real world, and a Spirtial one....the place where a Summons tranverses from a wish into reality. (Lifestream).
And that "part" of Sephiroth was the final roadblock, that was holding Holy back.....in that Spritial world. And that could be what that third fight means; The final bond for the summons of "Holy". Nothing more than that.
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but they should have drawn in that braclet.
Maybe she was naked. It was Aeris, regardless.
The only reason why so many people remember FF7, is because of what happens to Aerith. If that never happened, FF7 wouldn't have been anywhere "near" as popular.
No way, dude. At least in my opinion. I was glad that she died. From start to finish Aeris was a whiny biatch. What I feel was so addicting was the discovery of who Cloud really was. That's what was memorable, and what keeps the player hooked.
But you're right; It's too incoherent. As you've said like 3x before. Perhaps they left these undefined things to keep the players coming back for more. No matter what people will have different interpretations, each and every one very possible. Except for the stupid far-fetched ones you hear in fan-fic stories. Yuck.
But I'm going to have to stick with the idea that the final battleplace between Cloud and Sephiroth was in fact the lifestream.
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lol maybe teh FF7 people were bribed so that fanfics are easy to write
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If you look at the 'tunnel' it starts to look like he's going through rusty steel pipes... I think he was in the lifestream.. and then sucked into a mako reactor.
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I don't see how it could be a mako reactor. the tunnel clearly looks like rock, being cut away by cloud's protectional barrier, or energy field, or whatever is around him. But it would be pretty cool if sephiroth and cloud ended up fighting in the nibelheim reactor. But the blackness surrounding them really doesn't keep pace with the reactor idea.
But there is no way we'll ever know for sure because square had some twisted vindictive idea to not explain minor things like this.
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Now the question is...where are they during this final battle (I mean, all three final battles) Sure didn't look like any type of reality place to me...looked like a dream world.
hey don't forget you are really fighting jenova so the "dream world" is just an illusion. As for the final battle how did Sephiroth manage to keep his sword after being sucked through the lifestream from the nibelheim reactor. Remember he stabbed cloud and cloud through him over the edge but the masamune didnt go with sephiroth. Did he make a new one whilst stuck in the planets core for so long?
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No, he had the sword when he fell..I think. I'll get back to you on it. 5 bucks says that he still had his sword.
[15+ minutes later]
And I win 5 bucks because Sephiroth is holding Jenova's head and the masamune as he falls into the lifestream. Flaming moron.
(http://images.webshots.com/ProThumbs/56/11656_wallpaper280.jpg)
And you're not a moron; I just felt like putting a photo of a guy lighting his face on fire.