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Hi. I'm new here, so I don't know if anyone's done something like this before.
Anyway, about a month ago I got this crazy idea to replace the regular battle theme and world map theme from FF8 with the ones from FF9. After a few days of instrument tweaking, comparing it to what the real theme from FF9 PSX sounds, and going back and tweaking some more, I got it right.
Or so I thought. After discovering the existence of Samuel's DLS (by the way, excellent job on version 1.35, Samuel!), I tested my mod on his DLS. The Overdrive Guitar in the battle theme is not there, like it's supposed to be; so currently this mod is designed for the Original DLS that came with the game. It still sounds pretty good, and hopefully within the next few days I will attempt to create a version that works with Samuel's DLS.
I mainly created this mod for fun, and unfortunately, I don't exactly have anywhere to post it yet. Right now I simply want to know if anyone is interested in trying this out.
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yea im interested, how big is it?
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In its current form, which also includes fixes for the original song set that came with the game, is roughly 372 kb. One thing I forgot to mention is that the I've got the battle theme part set on FF9's timing; meaning that you'll first hear and see FF8's WHOOSH battle effect stuff, and then the theme starts to play. It's pretty nice how the synchronizing turned out! :D
Like i said earlier, this is to be used with the Original DLS file. The fixes will be most noticable when using the microsoft synthesizer, because it fixes the drum set assignments, and SBLive! cards appearently pick the correct drums thru some sort of SysEx messaging without the fixes.
If you're expecting it to be in an addon pack form (the type that version 2.0 of the FFSF project's midi config program can auto- install), it's not, because I haven't got around to downloading the addon pack creation program yet. Besides, since (in my opinion, and probably anyone else who try's them out as well) these fixes make the music sound like what SquareSoft-E.A. should have released with the game if they ABSOLUTELY had to package the original DLS with the game; then these (with the exception of the FF9 songs, obviously,)should be a permanent overwritting of the musice set without the need for an alternate set.
Hopefully, you'll see a mod version compatible with version 1.35 of Samuel's DLS on the FFSF page soon, depending on stuff like how much time school and homework will take. Until then, the only way to get it is via emailing me.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. It's in winzip form currently.
[This message has been edited by Goku7 (edited September 17, 2001).]
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heh heh . . . Sounds cool.
I'll try it.
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Ok. In this case, since I can just click on the e-mail icon to get an address, do you mind if I send a copy of it now?? A bit of a warning though: The Overdrive guitar is more appearant in how it'll sound then the way it sounds in the real game. But it's still cool :).
I've taken out the XG files, though, because they keep playing with too much reverb on my system.
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fine with me.
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I've run into a problem, TiadaghtonDude. Either your email server or mine is full. At least that's what the error I got sounds like. I'll try a few things first, but this is just to let you know it might be delayed.
Ok. I think its working now. Hope it gets there!
[This message has been edited by Goku7 (edited September 18, 2001).]
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Yeah, I got it.
Thanks! I'll give you my thoughts on it as soon as I try it out.
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I'm also interested in trying it out.
(you can send it at [email protected] )Then, if you mind, I can check and recommend some changes to make it compatible with the DLS I enhanced. What do you think?
That would make one version for the original DLS which includes the two ff9 songs + the sgts you fixed (fixed in notation and volume I presume), and another version for my DLS which would include only the two ff9 songs since the other songs within v1.35 are all fixed (or tell me if I forgot something).
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Samuel Slight
FFSF member - http://ffsf.cjb.net
[This message has been edited by Samuel_Slight (edited September 18, 2001).]
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Yeah. I can send you it, Samuel. Frankly, I'm glad you're interested in it. There are some instruments missing when I use your DLS to play the battle theme. I can't find the correct instruments because the 1.35 DLS is to big for DirectMusic Producer to store in my RAM, since I only have 48megs and it keeps wanting to load both the original DLS plus yours. Both being loaded equals to about 56megs of System RAM it is requesting. I don't have that, so it crashes. Since right now I'm unable to study the structure of your DLS in enough detail to make efficent corrections, you have my permission to edit it to bring the compatibility up to version 1.35 However, since I made the mod, I would appreciate it of you sent the corrections to me before any posting is done.
The way I fixed the rest of the FF8 songs are in that now the Microsoft Synth now uses more appropriate drum sets for the songs, instead of using the standard set for almost every song. Also, the distortion guitar's volume in the boss theme has been increased somewhat, to where it's audible for once! :)
The other details will be included in the E-mail.
[This message has been edited by Goku7 (edited September 19, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Goku7 (edited September 19, 2001).]
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Umm, don't take this as an offence but I think it's impossible to say that "You make FF8 music better with FF9 music", because it's just like apples and oranges, it's up to opinions which is better. Though The Blue Fields sucks and it loses all clearly when compared to other FF world map themes. TBF's still a lot worse even though I and Samuel arranged it a bit to sound more orchestral (in FF8 DLS 1.35).
But anyway, you should really just enhance FF8's music technically and not change Uematsu's art to his former/later art, or any other music (so no putting "We will, we will, ROCK YOU!!!" for boss music! :wink:)
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Well, Seraph, like I said in the beginning, I did the FF9 thing merely for fun. As for the other FF8 fixes, I did those in my spare time, and I just threw them together.
I agree that its a matter of opinion. That's why I was asking if people were interested in this thing before I decide to go to the trouble of posting it on a web site. I know that some people wouldn't want the FF9 songs, so I included instructions that would allow them to merely install the fixes, without the FF9 songs. I should have stated earlier, that to be precise, this thing is half a patch, and half a mod.
That fact that the FF9 part is a mod should make you consider this in the same catagory as Counter-Strike is for Half-Life.
Oh yeah, by the way, no offense taken. It's just that I like hearing Overdrivedistortion guitars in the battle themes. I also thought that the FF9 theme fit the game a little better than what FF8's battle theme was without Samuel's DLS. I mean, it's like "SeeDs are here, butt-kicking will now commence!" :D
[This message has been edited by Goku7 (edited September 20, 2001).]
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Of course, even I prefer FF9's music over FF8's music. But still, no matter how good it is, some people might not agree, and you should still use the original music (another example, even though One-Winged Angel is my favorite song, I still wouldn't like to replace The Extreme with it). But I see your point. Sounds cool, the only problem is to make a midi sequence for FF9 battle (and overworld) which sounds good. That might be hard, I've heard many FF9 battle midis and so far everyone is quite poor somehow. Either it uses wrong instruments or has the notation or balances all wrong :(
Well, good luck. It could be a good patch/mod. Just don't replace The Oath with You're Not Alone or The Premonition with Dark Messenger (even though both of them are awesome songs) :)
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Hey, Seraph, is there a reason that you don't want to try it? I just recieved the new 1.35DLS compatible version that I had Samuel create (By the way, Samuel, thanks for updating the compatibility. You saved me the money and time I would have had to put for getting a new comp or something just so I could load the DLS in DirectMusic Producer!).
Anyway, since SquareSoft is taking their sweet time in coming out with a comp version of FF9, that was a major motivator in making the mod. I don't have a PSX, and my comp's too slow to process the sound code in FF9 on an emulator at a bearable speed, so I decided to take things into my own hands.
The notation in this rendering is practically dead on, except that since its using FF8's instruments and not FF9's there's bound to be minor differences. As for Stereo Balance, I have no clue if its correct, since I have been deaf in one ear since as long as I can remember; but I am not tone deaf. Both songs sound excellent. Go ahead and try them.
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I think its a great idea.. although.. uh well .. hmm... no I think its a really cool idea.. I would want to check it out.. my email is currently full.. (of lecture notes from my teacher i believe..) is there a website that this is posted @?
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Things are in the works for it to be posted at the FFSF site :). Anyway, since we now have two versions out (original and DLSv.1.35), which one are you interested in?
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Ok... where would you post it Goku7? So far I haven't seen any links. And Slight's DLS 1.35 version would be appreciated.
I know of your problem. I also don't have PSX. Fortunately I got FF9 NTSC and it works on my PSX Emulator with decent speed. Now I have P2 333 MHz with Riva TNT 3Dfx-card (16 MB)
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Ok people, its FINALLY BEEN POSTED!!!!!!! It's now on the Final Fantasy SoundFont Project (FFSF) site, under the Downloads section.
:D
Now that's its posted, I ask that people who try it out post their feedback in this thread for now, unless their feedback is better suited for the Feedback forum. (I dunno which one it should be).Anyway, of the two versions, I think the one for the original DLS is a little easier on the ears (Samuel, I think we need to do some tweaking on the strings section in the battle theme....). However, try both versions out if you can, since I think this mod still needs a little more work to be as good as the other things in their download section.
The fixes for the music set that works with the original DLS is now a separate download, since appearantly SBLive! users won't need the fixes. Software DLS synths will need the fixes, I believe.
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Yeah, it probably still needs some tweaking since I don't have the original MP3s from the PSX to compare.
BTW is there someone who knows where to get FF9 MP3s?
Also, you may notice that Saw Wave (used in The Battle) needs to be fine tuned. Because it was not used by any FF8 music in v1.35, I never took care of fine tuning it. So, since it's a modification to be made on the DLS, it will be done in v1.36 (soon to be released). :)
[This message has been edited by Samuel_Slight (edited September 26, 2001).]
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I've been trying to figure out how to mirror the main bass line in that song with the distortion guitar, like in the PSX game; and still only use 16 channels. The core MIDI file I imported to make the song might have also transferred some XG-type SysEx messages.
By the way, Samuel, is there a list anywhere of the bank/patch numbers for your DLS instruments (like "0,0,29:Overdrive Guitar; 0,1,29: Overdrive Variation")? It would help me be able to edit the songs for use with your DLS without it wanting to crash due to not having enough RAM for DirectMusic Producer.
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Attention, people, the Samuel's DLS version of the FF9 mod has been updated! Most of you probably have downloaded the update without knowing it, but here's how to check. If you can hear a distortion guitar "mirroring" the bass line, then you have the new one. The reason why some people do not know that they have the update is because the file itself was updated, and the link that pointed to the first version of the Samuel's DLS compatible mod was simply redirected to the new version, without anything saying that this was a newer version. I think we're gonna start tacking version numbers onto the mod now, so everyone can tell if a newer version of the mod is out.
Anyway, if you downloaded the mod before 9/28/2001, then check the site again, and download the new version. It's alot better on the ears now! :smile:
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this is a VERY interesting development (interesting to my ears also)
any chance of extending this to more tracks in the game??
and who is involved in making the mod?
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so far, just me and Samuel.
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congrats, u get the skillsters thumbs up approval:D (very rare cos i always maon about something). the world map theme is so catchy, better then the psx one, when can we hope for other tunes to be ported?
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Well, I was toying with the idea of using FF9's boss theme for the music when you're fighting the spider-bot in dollet. And, MAYBE the FF9 victory theme. It'll depend on how the music could apply to the different parts of the game, and how much time I have, and how pesky my copy of DirectMusic Producer is going to be. Its now refusing to load the original DLS. ARGH! I think I'll go get some asprin now......
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i wish u the best of luck, anythingb to make ff8 interesting again
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Damn Goku, why couldn't you simply upload them as a zip full of patches sgt files since you didn't edit the DLS in any way as far as I understood. And also upload mp3 samples so we can hear how it sounds. Because I don't understand a thing of those add-on crap files, neither does my comp.
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Thank you for reminding me, seraph. I was gonna talk to Samuel about putting up mp3's of the mod. However, I can't do it myself, because I'm restricted to using SoftSynths when using DLS, and most software and hardware don't support using wave playback as a recording source directly. As for the Addon pack stuff, I can still send you reguluar zips that aren't in addon pack form.
I'm curious though: why can't the computer understand the addon format? The FF8 MIDI configurator 2 can understand the addon file format and auto-install what is inside the addon. Just make sure the mod is checked and is at the top of the list of sgt packages if you use the configurator.
Also, from what I know, the .addon file format uses basically the same compression code as a reguluar RAR archieve. I bet using WinRAR to open the addon file will work.
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Seraph: The reason is that then you'd have to overwrite the original SGT's and if you didn't like the mod, restore the old ones from a backup (if you'd remembered to keep a backup....) etc.
With an addon file you just activate it using FF8 Configurator and bingo, it uses the new sgt's. Don't like it? Deactivate the addon. You can switch between the original and new setup easily, without copying/deleting files...
But like Goku said, you *can* use WinRAR to extract them (I think) and just overwrite the originals if you want...
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Hey, thanks for clearing that out to me. I'll try again. I like the add-on feature in that case, if it doesn't overwrite anything. I'll give you feedback later.
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Weird, where's the post editing feature of this forum? Anyway, I tried your patch. The updated songs weren't really a match for Slight's DLS, which sounds awesome anyway. I don't remember much how the original DLS instruments sounded, extremely crappy I remember, so I guess yours is still better than the original DLS :smile:
Since those original DLS instruments sounded so crappy, I didn't really like some instruments in your FF9 mod version. But the Samuel Slight-version was pretty good. The world map theme sounded very much like FF9's. I think that's because FF9 had a similar synth as FF8 and SS's DLS used original FF8 PSX Synth instruments. But for battle theme, it sounds pretty different from the OST. Still very good though, the FF8 instruments makes the song suit FF8's world better. Very good. I like it. The only problem is the battle intro (not the 8-beat staves, before that, during the battle whirl). In your mod, it sounds just sad compared to OST's one.
I hope you didn't get annoyed for my feedback. The mod's idea is unique, something we haven't seen before, and that what it updated it did pretty well. A newer version of the FF9 Mod would be appreciated though, where some things are fixed and maybe fine-tuned.
One more question. Why hasn't http://ffsf.cjb.net main page updated their latest news by telling about this Mod?
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Actually, I was just working on the battle swirl part earlier today, and I filled Samuel in on the fact that its different than what its supposed to be.
As for the improved tracks, there should be a mention that most of the "improving" was reassigning drums so that people who don't have SBLive! or any other hardware DLS synth could hear the music with the correct drum set. Appearantly, SBLive! cards somehow pick the correct sets without the corrections. In other words, it allows the Microsoft Synth to use better drums than the standard set.
I'm still working on the mod, however, right now the focus is on ripping samples from FF9 for the upcoming version 1.36 of Samuel's DLS.
As for the World map theme, I think we got lucky on that one. I myself was surprised at how good Samuel's mod version sounded.
[edited] 239 2001-10-05 04:56
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Hmmm..........
A mystery is afoot here, then. I have a friend who owns a SBLive! card and was able to get hardware DLS from it, and he didn't know about the FFSF project untill I recently told him. However, I don't know what his OS is.
But then again, he's in Canada, and things are always a little different there.:smile: So now the question is: Why do only Canadian SBLive! cards support hardware DLS? :???:
[edited] 239 2001-10-06 00:43
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Wait a minute. Isn't win2000 mainly used for major network deployment stuff?!
If that's the case, then I think you might be right about him having win2000. He says he's a network administrator, and he does a lot of web design stuff.
By the way, Jari, would you be interested in expanding the mod to support your Timber Soundfont? I mean, yeah, its good that the mod is on the FFSF site, but maybe one of the goals ought to be that different versions of the mod that are made to be compatible for each DLS or SoundFont on the FFSF site (1 for original DLS, 1 for Samuel, 1 for the timber SoundFonts, and so on).
Now, I'm not out to steal from the thunder of the work you and the others have done. I'm simply trying to make it as available to people with the different Soundfonts and DLS files as I can, just like how companies make versions for Mac, PC, Lineux, Windows NT, etc. for the same program.
Ok. Samuel asked earlier about wanting mp3's of the FF9 songs. Well, I found one, of the battle theme, but it's pretty cheap. I think someone just held a microphone to the PSX while they were playing, because you can hear the "beep--beep" of the menu selections while the song is playing. I haven't found anything else, but, hey, something is better than nothing!
[edited] 239 2001-10-06 03:15
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I wouldn't necessarily suggest that, because Timber Soundfont is 99% made out of Atomic Soundfont, which isn't Jari's. He asked permissions from him to modify the Soundfont to be used FOR FF8 MUSIC. Sure, you can say your FF9 battle song and overworld are for FF8 music, but it might sound crappy. I think I once listened to FF9 music with Atomic and the balances are all horrible, (ouch!) especially for battle songs, boss songs and the "RUN!" song. And Timber is modified somewhat to suit FF8 music, but it might sound wrong with other game musics.
For FF9, I know the more aggressive songs sound bad with their balances, and AFAIK, Jari tried Timber and Atomic with FF7 songs. "Se kuulosti vitun huonolta", he said. (that's Finnish and I'm not going to translate it) For FF8 songs, it works in some cases, in some cases it doesn't. You should really try it out first.
PS. Ok, I'll translate the line. He said FF7 songs sounded extremely bad.
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Well, I was simply asking Jari if he was interested.
Anyway, the next version of the mod will fix that "battle swirl effect" part of the song. Also, Samuel's working on getting mp3's of the mod up.
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I agree mostly with you Jari.
JH: If you want to try FF9 midis with Timber then I can send them to you in e-mail (230 kb). But prepare to turn your speakers to lower or plug your ears with some songs :wink:
GOKU: Great to hear you're getting the battle song done. I can try to send you the whirl sample if you don't have the mp3. I suggest you try to stick up with Slight's version since it has the best instruments and it sounds closest to FF PSX synth quality, so that way your music will sounds most FF9-ish. An idea, mix some songs from other FFs too. Although I am against changing FF music into music from other FFs, many others could like it. Dancing Mad playing in every sorceress battle, hee hee :smile:
There's one thing I'd like to tell you. About DirectMusic Producer. Go ahead and try it. Believe me, it won't crash or run your comp out of RAM. It just looks like it crashed but in about 2-5 minutes, it WILL get even Slight's DLS loaded. It looks like "Not Responding" status, but it's still working. Just have patience. I could do that with only 64 MB of RAM and over half of the resources already in use.
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Well, the problem with DirectMusic Producer is that it takes that long to load the original 8meg DLS. So if it takes 2-5 minutes just for that, then for something almost 6 times the size of it (Samuel's DLS is 45megs) its gonna take like a half hour to get it loaded.
oh, i already got ff9 psx, so i don't need the sample.
[edited] 239 2001-10-06 23:25
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Dag, where should I upload the MP3 previews of the FF9 Mod?
legacy or prohosting?
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Goku7, I meant that the 45 MB Sam Slight DLS took me about 3-5 minutes to load up. The normal 8 MB DLS took me just a minute. That was when I had only 64 MB ram. Nowadays I have 256 MB so it will load a lot faster.
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I figured that you were refering to your system. And yes, I do know that it's working correctly even though its showing the "not responding" status. Right now it's just being tempermental, so now I'm basically making the edits "blind", and then testing them via the midi configurator program. It's slow work, but at least it's faster than waiting for the 45meg DLS to be loaded while I'm out getting my homework from school, stop at a video store, come back home and find it's still not loaded. (heh heh. Ok, ok, so i'm exaggerating!!).
Actually, I haven't defragged my hard drive in a long while. I guess I oughta do that tommarrow. :smile:
Now, about "Dancing Mad"......I do believe I have that file somewhere.....:grin: I could try it out if you want, seraph, but considering I haven't heard what it really sounds like (on my snes emulator), I seriously doubt if I have a version that's true to the OST (if there is an OST).
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I finally got around to playing with that mod yesterday. Even though I've never played FF9 :eek:, the MIDIs sound pretty good (as far as general instrument balance and such goes . . . as I said, I've never heard the originals.)
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Whats FF8 PC like? The reveiws on it werent very good.
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Well, from what you've probably read around here, its very well done, but they dropped the ball big time when it came to the music. That's why the FFSF Project exists, right? (that was rhetorical). Anyway, the overall experience from the movie scenes definitely depends on your system. Even when running the low-res movies, the sound (not the music) will keep skipping on a 233Mhz pentium-1. Everything else is fine, and true to the PSX version, except for the occasional slowdown when too many polygons are shown on a field screen (its probably a limitation of the game engine, though.) Another main gripe about the PC version is that the world map screens have so much slowdown, you could make a case for calling it a bug. I'm serious about that!
[Edit] However, once the FFSF music patches are installed, the game, in my opinion, does become worth the money you spent on it. It's definitely worth a shot if you don't have a PSX, and you want the game.
[edited] 239 2001-10-10 00:27
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About uploading soundfonts: Well, if time schedules serves me right (never does), I'll get time to put up my own server next week. Until then it's your own choice. Currently ffsf.cjb.net is linked to ProHosting but if anyone has the time then move it back to legacy (kinda of wasted as I will move it to my own server as soon as I get it up though).
You can upload the soundfont to anywhere you wish, I suggest you upload it to legacy and link to it from ProHosting.
After my server gets up, things will get in more order with this.