Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: Elentor on 2005-07-03 18:19:32
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Hi there people. First let me introduce myself: My name is Fernando Pires, I'm a brazillian 3d artist. After some time discussing possibilities, me and a friend of mine who is also another 3d artist decided that it would be cool to make a Final Fantasy 7 mod, complete with new graphics.
But I suppose that, since making the whole game would take an enormous amount of time and much probably would never get complete, we decided to give a try re-making the whole first reactor mission. Our main priorities are:
1) Remaking the organic models (Cloud, Enemies, Barret, etc)
2) Remaking the whole backgrounds in real-time 3D
3) Remaking the battle backgrounds.
4) Remaking the weapons
Fifth, and probably not much important, is to change some attributes and numbers, to make the game and in special the mission harder. FF7 is an easy game after all, and if the player could get through all the re-made mission with ease then what would be the point?
I don't know how possible these ideas are to insert in the FF7 game engine, though Reunion's progress and the SaiNt's high-resolution version. If we could remake the whole backgrounds in real-time 3d, then the whole game would take full advantage from a higher-resolution version. If not, then it still wouldn't hurt to have higher-resolution pre-mrendered backgrounds, again, if possible.
So, would anyone else be interested in this? Just a bit of our background: We're professional 3d artists and have previous experience with game 3D modeling. I'm an unorganic artist (backgrounds etc) while he is an organic artist (people etc). We're skilled both in modeling as in animation. Here is some artworks of ours, I hope you guys like!
Me, Fernando:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Corvete2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kamashii/SAFrigate.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kamashii/Muralha2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kamashii/Mansaofront.jpg
Him, Yakuza:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kamashii/blackman.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kamashii/narutoscloth.jpg
MOD EDIT: Do not post big images directly.
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The idea sounds cool, however, AFAIK, the FF7 engine is and will not be able to render full-3d-scenes... and even if it was, it wouldn't look that good at all.
However, higher-res pre-rendered backgrounds may be possible, I think SaiNt could tell us more here.
Oh and btw:
Since I was hacking FF7's model file format for quite some time, I think that FF7 won't be able to handle models like the ones you want to make. The original FF7 models are all vertex-coloured (with a few textures for eyes, mouths, tattoos, etc.), and the whole character is split up into several files...
I don't think that it's possible for the FF7 engine to handle "normal" models.
- Alhexx
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BTW: Your work looks awesome :o
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Gah! That hurts so much to know :( FF7's engine is evil... I guess I will have to wait for another coments to see what can be done after all.
Besides, thanks for your comment :D
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Yeah, fucking engines just pisses me off. But yeah high resolution backgrounds would be cool, rewriting the original models would own, new fmvs... would be OMFG!!!!!!1!
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If it's impossible to make real-time backgrounds, I'm very sure I could take my time to make high-resolutions pre-renders.
Still, I would do my best to give a try on rewriting the original models, even if we had to divide the models in multiple parts (which I suppose it's very masochistic)
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oh my god that looks so realistic it's unreal, pity FF7 can't handle this..
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I'd say it would be far easier to write your own engine than it would be to try and squeeze something like that into FF7's original engine. Still it's a captivating idea, probably the most professional attempt I've yet seen content-wise. Shame Square-Enix would probably crack down on it like a ton of junkies.
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Both your artwork, and your friends, is amazing sir.
I wouldn't have the time nor the patience to learn how to do something on that scale myself.
*Imagines FF7 with Advent Children Graphics*
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Decent artwork.
I suggest 'omiting' FF7 from the name try something like Stroud Crife - Revisited :D.
Renaming all the characters might be good too (Lifa and Stroud? :lol: )
Qhimm is right it would be easier for you to make or use a new game engine to make things work. However you interface into the engine (IE your mechanics) is what makes things fun. In deciding what engine to use you should consider what information you need for the game. For example if the opening scene can be done in real time on the engine.. there is no need to make a movie of it. The same goes with all the other long animation sequences. (Reactor explosion). Sky is the limit. If you want to use the original content .. there might be some DMCA loonies after you.
As for difficulty, perhaps you should have easy moderate and hard like other games have.
Anyhow I don't wish to discourage you, people make things difficult when all you want to do is have some fun huh?
Cyb
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*Imagines FF7 with Advent Children Graphics*
Yeah, that was my first thought, too. :)
As Qhimm said, it would be easier writing an own engine instead of using the original one.
However, we had a lot of (or at least a few) discussions about writing our own engine.
L. Spiro is writing his online-engine, and he's a game developer, so he is the one we should talk to when really trying to write our own.
(I mean writing our own, not asking L. Spiro for his code...)
Besides we would need a team of skilled coders for that. As for me, I wouldn't be able to write an complete engine on my own - maybe I could write the engine for the snowboard game or the chocobo race :D
But the own-engine thingy belong to another topic. (http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4270)
But as I said before, I like the idea of high-res models.
I'm not sure if we need to re-render the backgrounds, since there are thousands in the game... and I don't think that they look that bad at all.
But the battle scenes would need to be polished a bit...
- Alhexx
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It depends.. If the game was run at a higher resolution, which I think should definately be a choice in a new engine, then backgrounds would have to be rerendered, but either way I can definately imagine this churning out some great progress provided that the work put in is equally great.
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That is good modeling.
Unfortunately your task is too daunting.
If you just want to focus on remaking the reactor scene, that would probably be best.
I would suggest making your own engine for that scene (keeping in mind expandability) and pouring your heart into the graphics (being the thing you want to actually change from the original).
Since you are making your own new models, you really don’t need much insight into the original engine except for the battle system, which doesn’t need to be exact, and actually seems pretty straightforward anyway.
Since you won’t be loading their resources, you can make your own original engine, loading your own file formats (so you don’t need to be able to decode their 3-D models or textures, or animations).
Existing engines already have plenty of physics and 3-D rendering effects built into them, in which cases all you would have to do is find a suitable exporting plug-in for 3-D Studio Max or Maya and the engine will load your work.
Really, if you plan to redo the WHOLE game, it’s just too much. Thousands of backgrounds redone, in detail?
Plus the high-hundreds of models that would need to be redone, also in spectacular detail.
But if you just want to remake the reactor scene, it sounds reasonable.
See how it goes and if you are still motivated after that, expand the engine one more step.
L. Spiro
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And I'm afraid that just renaming stuff isn't going to keep Square's eyes off you, what they get poofed about is the use of their characters and settings in such a grand, official looking manner. Just remember the Chrono Trigger: Resurrection project, which was essentially completely remaking an even older game, also keeping in mind that they're still milking FF7. If you're really serious about going through with it though, I suggest it should be done in near complete secrecy, not talking about it around the web (more than necessary, like this topic perhaps), no project website people can link to. By the time the C&D note arrives, your project could have already been released. Of course, at that point it might not be a mere C&D note either, as a certain US legal case illustrated recently.
Whatever happened to that affair, anyway?
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Hey people, thanks for the comments.
L.Spiro: My focus is just to remake the Reactor Scene. I do have my own engine, actually, but my idea was making a mod, not a whole new game.
Anyway, I'm gonna check some other possibilities, and then I get back here to tell you guys. Thanks for the support
Edit: About the task being too daunting, it's not that much. I'm used to spilling out dozens of models per week, it's just a matter of patience :D
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I've got a question:
What is a C&D note???
- Alhexx
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Cease and Desist.
or
Continue and DIE =P
A legal thingie telling peopel to cut out what they're doing, basically.
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It's one of the most evil abreviatures I ever saw.
It's so tyranical. CEASE AND DESIST. There is NO ESCAPE.
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Your work is really beautiful.. Thanks for sharing it.. I can't code, but I wish you all the best on your venture. ^_^
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Correction: The CT: Ressurection guys did NOT have very good communication skills, and thus that got Squeenix freaked out thinking that they were making a complete Chrono Trigger remake and were going to distribute it for-profit on several different platforms.
This was not the case. CT: Ressurection was actually a VERY ambitious and revolutionary TECHNICAL DEMO, with the grande purpose of showcasing the team's work, as well as the programmer's purportedly magical, multi-purpose AND multi-platform software engine. It wasn't going to be very playable...just faithfully reproduce some of the more memorable scenes from the original game. They planned to distribute it on PC, PS2, GCube, and X-BOX formats...which then got Squeenix's attenion. Unfortunately it was marketed as a "Chrono Trigger Game Demo" and that's what got them shut down.
If I could call to your attention the infamous Nintendo vs. Suicide Girls debacle, these companies just blindly hand out their Cease and Desists, they don't actually investigate things. I'm sure if the CT: Ressurection guys explained it was just a tech demo, and maybe promised to only make one scene, they could have been okay. This "Blind" Cease and Desist was sent under the assumption that their intellectual property rights were being violated in a commercial manner, and that CT: Rezz was actually a full, working game being developed (truth be told that would make them even more furious, since a garageware team would be outshining them :p).
I'm pretty sure Squeenix doesn't care too much about stuff as long as it's for free and completely uncommercial, considering that some websites have the FF1 source code up and available, as well as all the sprites and infamous sprite comics *cough8bittheatrecough* that run off donations and T-shirt sales floating around the internet. It's just blind Cease and Desist syndrome, IMO.
Anyway, in keeping with the Blind C&D theme, Stroud Crife really WOULD probally be safe until it gets particularly buzzworthy, since these companies appear to hire people for the sole sake of trolling Google/botcrawling the web for violations. I'm pretty sure re-arranging letters would defeat it quite easily :p
This has been your regular Kojiro Historical Disambiguation and/or Correction. We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Men, sure you two are good 3D artists. But I agree with what has already been said: doing it on an completly new engine would far easier than inserting it on the original FF7.
The hi-res background would be a very nice addition if someone ever figures out how to force the game to render them at the correct resolution, though.
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KT makes a very good point about blind C&D orders. In fact, most of these letters are the exact same thing they sent to the last guy, except with a few words changed, and in a lot of cases don't even pertain to the case directly.
Still, Square still has a profitable, vested interest in all things FF7. While they may not go after fanartists or fanfic writers, or even us, fo that matter, I'd say recreating a part of thier game would raise a few eyebrows. Still, keep it quiet until completion and you should be all set =)
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Well, my point is noone would find it under the name Stroud Crife :p
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And if it was indeed kick-ass, people would surely keep their mouths shut and not tell their friends, and it would never reach any news site? Uh-huh. :P
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You could always do the RPG Maker thing, keep it secret until it's done, then spread it over the web so they can't do anything :wink:
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You could always do the RPG Maker thing, keep it secret until it's done, then spread it over the web so they can't do anything :wink:
...except sue you out of sheer spite. ;)
There is of course the option of releasing it anonymously, but I doubt anyone would really do that.
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Good luck with that Elentor, btw I hope you really do remake the full game because I have a feeling squaresoft won't touch final fantasy VII(original one not the sequel and etc). So that would be good if you could remake the game and find voice actors for the parts. You and your buddies are good at making 3d effects, I can tell from your work. So put that work to good use and make the best game you can ever have to work on. Make final fantasy VII shine in the spotlight again, where it belongs. :love:
And I don't believe Squaresoft can sue you for making a game using there characters, unless you plan on selling it. But if you distribute it for free, then they can't really do anything I believe, and if I am wrong then this is a very sad world we live in today, that companies would sue over jealousy because they couldn't make things as good as its fans. :lol:
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Re-releasing previously published content IS a violation of copyright laws, btw, even if someone else did all the work and are putting it out for free. However, game companies are very lenient towards modding communities. The only legal quibbles i've heard of were people making Thief fanmissiosn using the Thief2 engine, because if peopel wanted to play Thief 1, all they'd ahve to do is download these free missions, and even though T1 isn't a profit making game anymore, it's still something eidos could sue over.
Likewies, here we have FF7, which Square is still milking (and, sadly, rumors of a remake may just spur Square to make one, like they have with the complation), and.. yeah. I figure, as long as you stick with the first reactor, you won't have a problem.
On another note, I'd caution you against using models which are too high-poly. I'm sure you get great frames when things are sitting, untextured, by themselves in a blank space in 3dmax, but put several ai/objects and the background, all textured, on screen, and even the highest-end video card will start crying. Just sayin...
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On another note, I'd caution you against using models which are too high-poly. I'm sure you get great frames when things are sitting, untextured, by themselves in a blank space in 3dmax, but put several ai/objects and the background, all textured, on screen, and even the highest-end video card will start crying. Just sayin...
That's why you create your models at 5000-7000 a piece, then create 1,000000+ poly models and create normal maps for the low poly versions ;)
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On another note, I'd caution you against using models which are too high-poly. I'm sure you get great frames when things are sitting, untextured, by themselves in a blank space in 3dmax, but put several ai/objects and the background, all textured, on screen, and even the highest-end video card will start crying. Just sayin...
Don't worry, I have enough experience with model-optimizing for game engines. On my workplace there are dozens of computers with different configurations, and I never test the framerate on the viewport of the software, but inside a 3D Engine.
Besides, Radiosity is right. This is the reason why normal maps exists :D
Actually, Alhexx will be doing some tests with me, of including custom-made 3d models within the game. If everything goes right, then perhaps we'll have our croufe stlide
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Oh, while I think about it, you might be interested in a little side project of mine :)
http://www.radiant-studios.net/junk/costa_big.html
Ignore the dodgy textures on parts of the model, I was just testing out different tex to see what I liked (none of them as it happens, I'll probably end up creating them all myself).
edit: Just found some earlier, untextured, renders I did a while ago :
http://www.radiant-studios.net/junk/costascene.html
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Woa, very nice work. At this angle we can see how final fantasy cities are small, lol! It just needs a bit more of details, but it is good.
What is your intention, anyway?
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Thanks :)
I've not really got any particular reasons for modelling it, I just felt like doing it for the enjoyment of it. I guess some day I might lower the poly count to an acceptible amount for games and create a map using it (UT2004 deathmatch most likely), but I doubt it.
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UT MAPS! UT MAPS!!
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Heh, speaking of weird renders, just playing with some of the FF7 Arenas.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying3.jpg
Alright, no toying around anymore.
I have just started re-doing one of the battle arenas. I will post tomorrow.
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UT MAPS! UT MAPS!!
I second that.
Ive not had a reason to play UT2k4 since about a molnth after it came out as I got bored rather quickly.
A FF themed map maight tempt be to play it again ^^
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Sorry if I'm missing something, but if you made some high-rez character models shouldn't it be possible to covert them to a format that the game will accept, like the work being done in the Reunion thread?
And Saint mentioned that including support for high-rez backgrounds was something he was considering, but a low priority. If that ever happened, you could take 2d pictures of your town models and use them as backgrounds.
Replacing the battle arenas, I'm not sure if thats possible. I haven't heard of anyone trying that before.
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btw I realize that the models are stored in the lgp in pieces and a non standard format, but perhaps borde or reunion could show them where to slice up the model.
I'll shut up now though because I have no idea how a 3d model is stored.
MOD EDIT: Don't double-post.
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StarkRaven: Actually, I'm trying to do most of these ideas with Alhexx. Yakuza is doing a low-poly Tifa and I'm waiting the results so I can start doing the battle arena in the same style. Alhexx then is gonna try to insert them inside the game.
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:o Creating a full new FF7 model out of the nothingness...
That would rock, truly. I whish you all the best luck!!!
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Well, it's not going to be a 100% full new model - the skeleton and the animations will be the same. But we will try to give tifa a complete new "body"... hehe :D
- Alhexx
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Oh, while I think about it, you might be interested in a little side project of mine :)
http://www.radiant-studios.net/junk/costa_big.html
Ignore the dodgy textures on parts of the model, I was just testing out different tex to see what I liked (none of them as it happens, I'll probably end up creating them all myself).
edit: Just found some earlier, untextured, renders I did a while ago :
http://www.radiant-studios.net/junk/costascene.html
:o Dude, that's freaking awesome! 8)
Thanks :)
I've not really got any particular reasons for modelling it, I just felt like doing it for the enjoyment of it. I guess some day I might lower the poly count to an acceptible amount for games and create a map using it (UT2004 deathmatch most likely), but I doubt it.
Heh, I do phot manipulation for fun too, lol, 4-5hrs of fun. :P
Heh, speaking of weird renders, just playing with some of the FF7 Arenas.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/Elentor/Justplaying3.jpg
Alright, no toying around anymore.
I have just started re-doing one of the battle arenas. I will post tomorrow.
Again, amazing job! :D
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Heh, I do phot manipulation for fun too, lol, 4-5hrs of fun. :P
Me too. It's real fun :)
I wish you guys best of luck.
Remember to make it long enough so there would be lots of fun with it :P
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hello
i am planing on making a ff7 clone in direct x (just a section of it). i will build the engine myself in c++ and was wondering if i could use your map? and any player models you guys have? i dunno when im gunna finish it as i will have to balance it with other work that im currently doing but if i didnt have to model that would speed things up gr8ly.
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Not to sound a bit negative... but if you can't extract the models yourself I'm a bit concerned for your project.
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i havent looked at extracting the models and i mean updated models not the original altho the orginal would do. i have ff7 on the psx only so i dont think its possible to extract the models due to the format but havent looked into it. neways i mainly saw that gr8 map and wanted to use that.
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I doubt Squaresoft will care should this mod be a success. Just as long as you demand that it's only a mod, and that Squaresoft is the original author of the game's source code, and DON'T try to make profit you'll be fine.
I really respect what this guy is trying to accomplish. A legit remake from Square is so far down the road it's best to not even think about it sometimes. Learning the ins and outs of this great game's source and mechanics to produce improvements or modifications is an exciting thought. It is daunting and repetitive, but if you're a programmer worth your sault you can accomplish it.
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I agree that if someone could just whip up higher rez backgrounds, especially to compliment Borde and Reunion's work, that would be a noteworthy project in and of itself.(not to mention plenty of work in and of itself).
Personally i like the idea of making another engine to handle a revved up FF7, but really the amount of work involved, plus the likelyhood of SE slapping down, or worse confiscating and claiming as their own, any work put into it would make it seem not worth the time.
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this is great work . I have no skills in 3d making etc. but if i could learn from any of you guys I am all ears, but does someone know where I can find the directory of the pre-rendred background, just a pale idea . I heard many old engines that are being remaked or new models are being inserted into the engine,that it would serriosly lagg.
i would be great if i had the source of the fmw's cuz i know pretty much i movie making and stuff like that
can someone teach me 3D modeling :P want to learn
peace out TyranN
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bit high poly dont you think? especially if your thinking of putting it into a game environment...
/me waits for unreal engine 3 and its ubar displacement mapping abilities o/
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Awesome work Elentor! Battle areas look great! :D If we could just form a couple dedicated mod teams together. We have - 1)battle field conversion 2)high resolution 3)new music 4)hi res cloud patch 5)misc patches, mini game patch etc. The NPC patch is already in the works and I'm a big fan of it. Now we just need 1)Elentor's awesome battle area updates 2)Hi-res 2D background images 3)32bit support 4)anything else (updated fmv, whatever) and this would be an amazing, completley fan created, remake. I'm very impressed and excited by Elentor's work and good luck with the project. If I could lend a hand let me know.
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Redoing every single background would be hard…
You could though redo the cutscenes.
Seriously, your pre-rendered stuff is amazing (really like the Naruto one), plus redoing the cutscenes seems a little more practical than redoing every single background. (Then again, I thought recreating all the NPC’s was far-fetched.)
Battle scenes in high-rez (w00t)
I cant see any of Radiosity’s links (not found on server)
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hey... i'm sorry i haven't read the whole thread yet so i'm not sure if this has already been said..
why not use source or cryengine 1.x or 2.0? all three has sdk's and cryengine 2 has a sandbox editor.. it can handle insane quality graphics and scale all the way down to ff7 original graphics..
it has a flow-chart system that you could prolly make the combat system in fairly easily and.. and and (brains overload from excitement) an...aaaaa...
*dies*
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this thread is 4 years old bub, i think it's safe to say this project is dead
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Agreed