Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: Elentor on 2005-07-15 01:25:29
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Hi there again.
Well, this is the second of three projects I'm carrying (yea I have that free time.. hehe). The idea is to make a "Hard mode" of FF7. Why? Well, this is something me and my friends wanted for a long time, because we too share the common complaint that FF7 is too easy.
Last Update: 23/07/2005 - Current Version: 0.1.3.2
DOWNLOAD BY CLICKING HERE. (http://elentor.com/Projetos/FF7-Hardcore%20Version/scene.bin)
Total Enemies Changed: 83
History
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Version 0.1.3.2 - 23/07/2005
> Fixed a bug where Zemzelett's Status won't change
> Fixed a bug where some Capparwire's status wouldn't change
> Balanced gameplay issues on Junon Area
> Increased Challenge rate of Heli Gunner
> Increased Challenge rate of Bottomswell
> Increased Challenge rate of Jenova BIRTH.
Version 0.1.3.1 - 21/07/2005
> Increased Challenge rate of Devil Rider
> Increased Challenge rate of Kalm Fang
> Increased Challenge rate of Levrykon
> Increased Challenge rate of Crawler
> Increased Challenge rate of Castanet
> Increased Challenge rate of Madouge
> Increased Challenge rate of Ark Dragon
> Increased Challenge rate of Mu
Version 0.1.3.0 - 19/07/2005
> Added 32 new enemies. The game is changed until Jenova*BIRTH.
Version 0.1.2.3 - 18/07/2005
> Increased Challenge rate of Motor Ball.
Version 0.1.2.2 - 17/07/2005
> Fixed lots of Gameplay issues in Shinra Headquarters.
Version 0.1.2.1 - 17/07/2005
> Made changes on some monster's HP values.
> Fixed a bug on Eligor's HP
> Fixed a battle where Might Grunt's status' wouldn't change.
> Fixed a battle where SwordDance's status'wouldn't change.
Version 0.1.2.0 - 16/07/2005
> Added 21 enemies. Now the whole Midgar City is complete.
Version 0.1.1.2 - 15/07/2005
> Fixed a bug where Corneo's Lackeys' HP wouldn't change in the battle.
> Increased challenge rate from Sewers
Version 0.1.1.1 - 15/07/2005
> Fixed a bug where Vice would remain stopped for the whole battle.
> Increased challenge rate from Sector #6 Slums
Version 0.1.1.0 - 14/07/2005
> First version. Changes 30 enemies up to the Train Graveyard.
Warning: Big personal coment about Final Fantasy VII gameplay
My complaint is that: Squaresoft was aiming first-time rpgists. Most of the bosses are, IMO, a joke. Air Buster is, i.e., a boss whose only purpose is being beaten. He takes 5 times the damage from behind, is slow, has low HP, and on top of that he is attacked from both sides. Guard Scorpion attacks twice per eight turns. Aps damages himself more than you do. Alright, these are the first bosses, but as the game progresses, things gets worse. Safer Sephiroth can be beaten with one summon. So does Bizzarro. Et cetera et cetera... but this is my opinion.
Because of this, I've decided to make a Patch, which I call Hardcore Mode. My intention is not just to make the enemies much harder, but to make some aspects of the game make more sense. Some of these aspects are, but not limited to:
1) All Materia Mastered selling for the ridiculous amount of 1 million Gil.
2) A certain Summon being able to obliterate most bosses.
3) Some certain Limits being able to crucify all bosses.
4) Some combos being able to make your party play by itself against what is supposed to be the hardest bosses in the game.
5) One of the two hardest bosses, Ruby Weapon, be able to be defeated by Level 7 Tifa.
6) One of the two hardest bosses, Emerald Weapon, be defeated in one turn by a Counter+Mime Combo.
7) Bosses that, on top of having AIs set up to aid you on battle, have still low attributes.
And what I consider to be, definitely, the two not worst, but surely stupidest gameplay aspects:
8) Common, the first bangle has Defense 8. The second has defense 10. TWO points of Defense? What the hell is the use of two points of defense? That means 0,4% less damage or, in other words, that means absolutely no reduction in damage at all. Not that 8 points (about 1,6%) do much difference against attacks that cause 30 damage. As Alhexx said to me, "they just want you to think that it's going to be better".
9) The absolutely same statement, but this time to weapons. No extra coments necessary.
With that said, I would like to present my Hardcore Mode Project. The main aim of the project is:
1) To make the enemies harder and more challenging.
2) To make the players use a little of strategy.
3) To fix some gameplay issues
4) To reduce the extreme power of some materias.
The project it is in the very beginning. Reunion was Beta-testing the first versions of it to me, and at least him seems to have liked a lot.
So, what are you waiting for? Download the Patch here (http://elentor.com/Projetos/FF7-Hardcore%20Version/scene.bin) and start playing right now the Hardcore version. By the time you reach the Train Graveyard I will have (I surely hope so...) released a new version with updates past it!
FAQ:
As for now, which areas are affected?
The affected areas are:
Reactor #1
Winding Tunnel
Lower Plates
Reactor #5
Sector 5 Slums
Wall Market
Sewers
Train Graveyard
The Pillar
Shinra Headquarters
The Escape from Midgar
Midgar Area
Kalm Area
Chocobo Farm Area
Marsh Area and Cave
Junon and Fort Condor Area
Junon
Shinra Boat
But Elentor, how do I install the Patch?
It's simple. First backup your original scene.bin file in your /data/battle/ directory where FF7 is installed, then download my scene.bin and put on it.
Recomendations:
Unnecessary to say, I suggest you to create a new game and play it from the very beginning, since all it is changing right now is the very beginning. I don't know if you're going to find my patch still too easy or way too hard, but in case you find it way too hard (trust me, even I, the creator, died once to Guard Scorpion and was completely obliterated during my first time on the Reactor #5), make saves in multiple locations, specially before entering somewhere you cannot go back (like the train to the Number 5 Reactor. If you do not have enough potions and phoenix downs, you might be doomed).
Leveling up is not necessary. Even though I like to join some battles, Reunion managed to kill Guard Scorpion on level 7, even though he is much harder. Some of you may find necessary, though.
I'm not releasing *yet* the changes I made, as I want you all to play without already knowing what to expect. I hope you guys enjoy the few changes I made yet and please, leave feedback. You're all being my beta-testers. I want to know if you guys enjoyed, have any complaints about single monsters or areas and if you find any bug, drop it here. Only god knows how painful is to edit the same enemy's hex on multiple files, and I may have made some mistakes.
So, what are you waiting for? Click here and experience your wildest dreams. (http://elentor.com/Projetos/FF7-Hardcore%20Version/scene.bin)
Credits:
First and foremost, Terence Fergusson (which don't even know who I am) for having compiled a so huge amount of information I made sure to carefully read before putting my hands on this.
L.Spiro for having helped me and sent me all the information he gathered, which without I would never have begin this project.
Reunion for Beta-Testing my humble Patch.
M4V3R not just for doing the original Scene Explorer, but for creating recently the Scene Edit which surely will save me from many headaches.
And last me, for having the patience to be working on it.
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While you’re at it you should consult Terence Fergusson on how to fix the bug that prevents armor from actually giving you any kind of magic defense.
L. Spiro
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Does he knows it?
By the way, how can I consult him? I remember I mailed him once, but never got it returned.. and I don't know if he does have ICQ or MSN...
Thanks
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Heh, Terence is a bit difficult to just "consult". Your best bet is to hope he replies to this topic ;)
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Post some slightly flawed information when someone asks a question.
He has a radar to detect misinformation from his home planet, and he will rush in to immediately correct you. “:wink:â€
Under your flawed information, leave your note to him.
I am not sure if he will see it though; I don’t know if he is able only to see flawed information in posts or if he will see the whole post itself.
“:Pâ€
But the bug fix is going to require an actual patch.
The problem is it changes per version.
The good news would be, however, that you could probably just patch the Chocobo Patch and call it good, since it is the most commonly used.
Or you could write an all-in-one-der patch that literally seeks the code that needs to be changed, regardless of where it is in the .exe (this is best, and will work).
Hmmm.
I’m a bit busy myself, but I would imagine Terence Fergusson would say the same.
If he does, I can make the patch, but it will have to wait a while; I have my own projects consuming my time.
L. Spiro
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Actually, Safer Sephiroth gets a lot harder if your characters are level 99, and you used Kotr on Jenova Synthasis. It takes about 5 casting of kotr at max damage to kill him that way (or two and everyone using multi-hit limits), so he's not ALWAYS easy =P
How can a level 7 tifa defeat Ruby, btw? I've never actually beaten him (For some reason, Hades stopped stoping him and his tenticals drained all my MP, turned me into a frog, then something did 8000 points of damage, and i died =( )
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Elentor - what tool do you use to edit those stats, If I can ask ?
Long time ago I've tried to make editor for scene.bin, but unfortunetly because of lack of time I had to cancel this project. Did you write some program for it or just you sit with Hex Editor changing specific values? ;)
Edit: I wrote a program to edit these files, please refer to my other thread (http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4359) on this forum if you want to use it. Hope it'll help :).
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M4v3r: I used UltraEdit. And yea, I was manually Hex-Editing the monsters. Or was... with your new program things will get much easier. Well, at least if other projects like this arise, I will have the pleasure to claim mine was the first ;D
EmperorSteele: He gets 400.000 HP, which is still cheap, if you consider the game mechanics. Long ago, long before I knew about the Ungarmax/Hero Drinks things, I had a 4xCut and Counter+Mime Combo which, while not causing that devastating damage, was still enough to kill him in two counters.
If you want to know how can a level 7 Tifa defeat Ruby, go check gamefaqs. Someone crazy enough wrote everything there.
L.Spiro: Okay.. let me test.
>>> Terence Fergusson, please read below this line<<<
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Hey people, I just discovered that the formula of physical damage is Atk^3 /320 + 10.
Can someone*coughcoughterencefergussoncoughcough* correct me if I'm wrong?
Thanks ;)
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That is something I have been waiting for since beating the game on ps1 for the fifth time
good luck on this -.-
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I'm certainly looking forward to this This would give the game a whole lot more replay value. Along with Reunion's and Saint's patches, this is starting to feel like a whole new game!
If you ever need help with something that can be done using a simple tool such as using M4v3er's scene edit, just PM me and I'll do my best to help out.
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Leiw: Thanks
Marcis: Yea, I'm trying to bring new reasons to play FF7 :D
By the way, just updated to 0.1.2.0. I added 21 new enemies, and now the whole Midgar is complete.
Hope you guys enjoy!
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I gave the #1 reactor a go today.
After the first battle I was wondering if the patch was really on or not. But after 2 or 3 I noticed a big chunk of my health was gone contrarily to normal. And from there things got really hairy. I had to run away from 2 or 3 enemies to make it back after Guard Scorpion.
All I can say is great job. I find it's a perfect balance between being hard but not being too frustrating. Nice going.
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Marcis: Thanks, I'm doing my best. Please, I would like you to leave your feedback if you play any further.
I just updated it to version 0.1.2.1. Lots of bugs fixed on the Shinra Headquartes. I might update it to 0.1.2.2 or 0.1.3.0 today.
Cheers!
Edit: Like I said, version 0.1.2.2 released, it is a rather important revision of the headquarters.
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Some more feedback coming your way!
I played through the game up to the point where I'm supposed to clim the sector 7 plate with version 0.1.2.1. AeroBuster was a bitch until I started using limit breaks in a smart way against him. That battle was perfect, forced me to use some strategy instead of only one limit break in the back as usual. However the sewer + train graveyard part didn't seem to be as hard as the rest of the game so far even though I almost died to Corneo's pet (one more wave and I was done for).
I'll probably have some time in a few days to finish Midgar.
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Thanks for your feedback!
I will check that train graveyard section in a later revision.
Unfortunately my time was very short today (studying law at morning, then some time with my girlfriend, then dentist and now I have to work for a 3d contest), but at least I*myself* had the time to finish Midgar and make the last adjustments on MotorBall.
If I finish my job quickly today, then I may be working again on the patch.
For now I hope you guys enjoy and the new topic I'm opening here on the forum.
Cheers
Edit: Added 32 new enemies, up to Jenova*BIRTH on the Shinra Boat on this new version 0.1.3
Hope you guys enjoy
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"-just edited this post because it was long and stupid, just ignor"
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by the way is it possible to remove items from chest.. because one thing that needs to be done is to get rid of vince's pistols, the one's you find before you even have him in your party (the little town near midgar i think it's in)
I think you can also find a few of cid's spears too early as well. Just asking because i noticed you removed some bracelets and a sword which you can normally steal and replaced them with potions.
also if you want any help with this mod i would be glad to help during my spare time off uni - which happens to be alot of it. I'm a newbie programmer with C++,VB & DX9. i have completed a year long course in games programming before i started at uni but am starting to get very rusty at it from sitting around doing nothing
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Smithie: Not that I know :(
Currently I won't need any help, and probably won't... these projects are for personal satisfaction. If *I* can't do it by myself, which is the point (I feel pleasure doing it), then it's kinda worthless to me, if you understand what I mean...
smithie, btw, do you know of CGFX or shader programming?
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Hm... I've never thinked about editing items that you can get in field. But I think it's very possible. However you would have to patch files in flevel.lgp to do that. It's somewhere in field script section and IIRC Qhimm has a document with all the opcodes explained.
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And flevel is quite heavy
Is there any way to compile a program to auto-unpack flevel, install the "new" files and repack it, sort as a patch installer?
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That's what the patch functionality in LGP Tools was meant to do. The only problem was that it didn't work quite so well as it should have...
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ficedula: I was talking about a more "final-user" method, like clicking twice on the "install.exe" and then just clicking next. By the end a backup copy would be made, of course.
I just would like to announce version 0.1.3.1 which modifies a lot of enemies on the last patch.
On a side note there is a big bug happening right now, which I hope none of you will notice (it's nothing harmful). I will try to fix it as soon as possible.
The link is the same. You can download by the first post.
Cheers
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Well, that was the intention - while you could apply patches using LGP Tools, you could also build a self-installing exe patch, too. I don't know how well it works in the current version because it's not really been tested in quite a while.
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Oh really? My mistake here, sorry. Since I've been working heavily on scene.bin, I quite forgot about how the LGP Tools worked.
:oops:
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I know what you mean .. i was just offering to help because i didnt want to see the mod turn out only half complete.
Also as a suggestion for the mod, if you havent already done it you should make midgar zolem("big snake thing") a boss for level 80+ characters, no one ever bothers to go fight this thing until disc three and by then it's too easy. Make it as difficult as the weapons.
As for shading, i know a little. but ff doesnt / shouldnt use a shader as it has no lighting. Are you asking from a modleing perspective or programming?? generally in programming you just tell it which shader to use unless you want to be fancy & make up special fx like in ATI's control panel
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im going to look into the changeing the locations of the weapons. I hate the fact that half the weapons you never see in the battles because you recieve them too late in the game or too early. It shouldn't (i hope) be too much harder then modify the monsters althought after looking at the size of the level file (120meg+) it might take along time. And a patching method would be needed.
MOD EDIT: Don't double-post.
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Hello and thanks for sharing your project with us all.
I think your original idea of rebalancing the game is *EXTREMELY* interesting and I had hoped someone could come up with it.
I do appreaciate your job but please consider something that for me is mandatory: the general difficulty level of the game might be well enhanced by your modifications BUT...but I do believe that there is a Boss in the game that is *totally* overpowered, spoiling the game. At least it partly spoiled the game ( for me still the best of the series) for me.
I am speaking about Emerald Weapon. To kill this boss it's almost needed to not only have a certain summoning materia but also to mime it continuously being also protected by "Life3". Not to mention that the whole fighting becomes very very frustrating and repetitive. The player finds himself being killed after spending 20 minutes in the fight just to start it over again for the 35th time. Yes, there is no need to defeat such a boss in order to finish the game but still why make it so frustrating ?
This challenge makes all the rest in the game pale at comparison. Square made this error, according to me, of making this "bonus boss" unbalanced. Should you want to defeat her, must you go with an extremely strong party. And if you go with an extremely strong party, then all the rest of the game will be too easy.
I assume that people try and fight Emerald when they have the opportunity and not just before the final challenge against Sephiroth. Also, people would like to be rewarded for defeating these "bonus bosses" in the middle of the game and not by the end.
So please consider the possibility of making Emerald *less* strong than she is by dafault. I'd think the whole gameplay would benefit of this.
A second issue which is also very frustrating (and it's a classic in the FF series) is the STEAL option. It's way way way too frustrating to keep on trying stealing from bosses for 100 times before you can actually make it! I do believe that the success rate of stealing should be pretty much raised in order to make it enjoyable. I had found myself (not only in FF7) spending one or two hour with a boss untill I could finally get an item out of him...This is crazy...I don't know if that is something that can be modified but it's somethig I would definitely do...
Thanks!
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Is there any way to compile a program to auto-unpack flevel, install the "new" files and repack it, sort as a patch installer?
FYI there are also tools on web so-called Patch makers ... you insert the original and modified file, and it will produce the difference file, and output is usually in form of .exe. This could be usable for you.
Minor disadvantage is that the patch will work only if it is applied on the original file of same version that you have.
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...And flevel.lgp file is 127 MB file, most patch maker's screw when you load file so big in them.
Elentor - Yes, it is possible. And since I have some time lately, I can write an installer that will patch end user LGP with files that you specify. If you want me to do this, of course.
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M4V3R: I'm currently more interested on this. if you have time do them, you would be *again* my hero :D
Item/Weapon Editor
Materia/Magic Status Editor
These are on the kernel, I think. If you can make these, then I would be closer to fulfilling my job of the Hardcore version.
smithie: I disagree with your opinion of Midgar Zoloom. I *always* kill it before going to Junon so I can have Beta. The experience she gives (250) is a clearly example she was meant to be killed by the time you reach her.
At first I thought of making her hard as a weapon, but then I simply decided to make her harder. Please, download my patch and you will see what I mean. I made her harder with the sole purpose of avoiding players getting Beta early in the game, which is a ridiculously overpowered spell that makes the whole first cd easier than it currently is.
About shader effects, I'm asking just for curiosity. I know FF doesn't support it.
Salk: I agree with the difference between the weapons level and the game overall difficulty, but I do not have any plan of making them easier, only more balanced with the whole game.
Killing the Weapons as they are is a joke. Long ago, I had the idea of writting an "advanced materia combos" faq to put on gamefaq. I managed to finish it, but I never really posted because I think it didn't have much purpose, since the game was already easy.
Between the combos there was one who could 4.000.000 damage in one single turn on Emerald Weapon with the due preparations, combos that made you *invincible* for good, combos that made you take almost no damage from anything in the game and combos that allow you to deal 300.000 damage in one turn without any use of spells. You can even kill Emerald Weapon with Fire 2 or 3 (can't remember now), in one turn. Most of the combos ended before it deal the total possible damage or Emerald being able to deal the second strike.
IMO, besides the obvious damage unbalance on Knights of the Round (which, if I get the means of editing the spells, I will reduce of course), the only real big problem in the game is called MIME.
Anyway, while I intend to balance aspects that Square messed up, this is not a "balance mode game", but a hardcore mode game. I agree there are many problems with the game I'm going to fix, but not reduce the challenge of Emerald Weapon. Even most because I am going to nerf some materias (and enhance others) since they can make you deal more damage in one turn than the FF10 characters can do against their respective foes (the Dark Aeons), and mind that the scale of damage of FF10 is much bigger (bosses with 10.000.000+ HP... maximum damage of 99.999 etc). I think that the FF7 characters, the way they are now, can "pwn" any Dark Aeon on FF10 without any problem, with the respective damage scale.
The problem I will try to fix is not making the whole rest of the game easy when you're able to kick the Weapon's ass, though I think this can be difficult.
Cheers
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Elentor,
thanks for your thorough reply and good luck with your great project! :wink:
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doh.. just closed the web page by accident and lost my post.
Have the stealable items withing the Shinra HQ been replaced by just potions or is the mod stuffing up on my computer??
as for shaders the DX9SDK tutorials & samples would be your best place to get info on them, i have no experience with them as im not up to writing in lighting for my game engine.... well actually i was coming up to them a long while ago but lost about 2 months work due to a hard drive crash ( serves me right for not backing up ). I stopped coding for up till now because of that and have just restarted from scratch.
if your playing around with HLSL ( which are new and just implemented with DX9 ) then go over to nvidia.com and check out there CGFX editor.
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I just finished Midgar. As for my feedback Reno was really really hard. He was most definately the hardest boss to date in the game. Not impossible though so it's all good.
As for the Shinra HQ, the enemies inside weren't as hard as the one climbing the sector 7 tower if you ask me. The specimen room boss was pretty hard too, as was Rufus since you're all alone. The elevator boss with your alternate party howerver (Aeris, Barret and Red) was really easy, just longer than usual. I'd sugget making it harder.
As for the highway boss, he was just right.
Those ar my two cents so far.
More to come as I go along.
PS: You most likely already know this but the potion bug is probably linked to M4v3er's tool since the enemies you manually hexidted (aka Guard Scorpion) left their original items (aka Gatling Gun).
Lookin forward to what's comin' next!
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smithie: These items can no longer be stolen because of M4V3R's tool bug, as Marcis said. I'm waiting for an update but, until then, you will have to enjoy the potions ;)
I was asking just because I like chatting about it with people. I actually work with these shaders and even write some for OpenGL, so it is nice to chat about it.
Marcis: Thanks for your feedback! I died the first time I fought Reno, because of the pyramids. I will try making the elevator boss harder, btw.
You can already download the last version, which changes up the Jenova, but I myself am on the process of balancing this area as I play, because it is kinda complicated.
Cheers
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Man I used the cheat edit for final fantasy VII, and I still can't even beat any of the weapons and I have all the best summons.... I don't get it? I didn't apply this patch to it, but it just gets me upset. Any advice? I'm even at level 99 and still can't handle them. hp is 9999
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Soldier: To sum a very simple and famous way to obliterate Emerald Weapon: Get W-Item, two Hero Drinks, have Barret with everything in 255 and his weapon Missing Score and the Wizard's Bracelet (I think this is the name). Have his limit set on level 3.
Join battle with one of your members dead. Barret should have 8 counter + mime mastered materias equipped.
Now, give him two Hero Drinks, and unleash Ungarmax on Emerald Weapon. Do nothing else. Once he attacks Barret, he will counter 8 times with Ungarmax, causing far more damage than Emerald Weapon can handle...
You don't even need Underwater Materia, just Counter Mimes.
So, you just beated him in one turn. Do it still seems to be hard?
Edit: Just updated the Patch. Take a look at the first page to see the changes.
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Elentor: yeah, but without cheating, how easy is it to get all those counter + Mimes?, and getting all of barret's stats to 255? Yeah, just fight for hours and hours and hours, but that's asinine and boring.
You shouldn't base an enemy's weakness relative to people being able to cheat. And if someone WANTS to spend a year mastering all that materia, then ALLOW them to kick emerald's ass without you saying "oh that's too easy!"
And so, okay, without looking at what ONE OR TWO PEOPLE managed to figure out, please explain how else the weapon's are easy?
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You don't have to go so extreme to beat the Weapons at all ... just if you want to beat them in one easy step. It's quite possible to beat them without referring to playthrough guides and collecting insane numbers of items.
You don't even necessarily need Knights of the Round to beat Emerald Weapon. The easiest way for somebody who's playing through normally is to use Yuffie+Conformer - the Conformer increases in power as the enemy does (more or less), so it's one of the physical weapons that can still do a reasonable amount of damage against Emerald. Give her 4x cut and a couple of boosts, like Hero Drinks, and it's not too hard to get her doing nearly 9999x4 damage on each action.
Emerald's still not a knockover, but once you're taking large chunks of HP off each round through attacks alone (not going to run out of MP there!), you're well on the way to defeating it. Throw in a Phoenix Summon or two and you should be able to win without having to try too many times. That's how I defeated it, anyway ... took me a few tries, but it wasn't too insane.
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Marcis: I have a request.. could you please send me a save of yours after you get past Shinra Boat, on Costa del Sol?
I managed to (yea, shame on me) overwrite my file. It was the stupidest thing ever, I know.
Emperor:
Since ficedula covered about the "non-extreme" ways of defeating the Weapons, I will talk about my style, which is different than his, so Emperor, you can compare two different points of view defending the same idea.
Well, the ease of something is relative, imo. If you have no patience to level up et cetera, then an "optional hard boss" really is not supposed to be easy.
When I'm saying these things, I'm not basing on what *others* do. That would be too hypocrite. When I said I was going to make the "hardcore" mode, I wrote a big text explaining why, in *my* opinion, FF7 is cheap, and why do I think it is, and even explained recently that my intention is not making what I believe should be the game released, but instead what I think it should be the "hard" mode.Back then, before I even getting the FF7 for PC, I used to level up the materias, and never runned out of patience doing so. I was one of the people who spent a long time mastering the materias I wanted to master. I'm aware not everyone do it, not everyone has the time, patience or want to do so. Well, I know even people who haven't managed to beat Safer Sephiroth.
This concept doesn't work when you are a player of my style because they are, supposing, the hardest bosses. They shouldn't be "easy" in any way, because when the game was released, Square didn't think about some overpowered ways to exploit the game. I level up a lot, pick up everything in the way, in the most perfeccionist way possible. To me, and the other players who play this way too, FF7 is easy.
See, for example, FF10. There are bosses that are hard, there are bosses that are very hard, and there are the bosses that require you to have almost everything maxed up, with the ultimate weapons, which aren't very simple to get. And even though I "leveled" up a lot on FF10 because I enjoyed to do so, there were still battles hard as hell, which I noticed that high level wouldn't win them - but strategy. And then I had to think on methods of killing the bosses, even though I wasn't rushing into them. I am still owned by Penance from time to time, regardless the fact that my saved game has 150 hours. See? they follow the same concept (ultra-hard optional bosses) but while the Weapons are exploitable, the only cheap way I know to beat the Dark Aeons and Penance is summoning Yojimbo (an one-hit kill to *anything* like Odin.. except it works for bosses), which takes away the whole point of killing them.
Besides that, they are bosses supposed to be fought by the player who has got everything in the game, maxed everything and after killing the last boss with one single hit (no 4xcut or anything, the last bosses can be killed by one single attack hit if you have Str maxed), they want something challenging, so the whole "if the player wants to spend a year leveling, let it be easy" doesn't work here. As you can see, there is a big difference between the Weapons and them, because nobody thought on these combos, probably, when they were created. They weren't supposed to fight the ultra-mega-overleveled player, they were just optional harder bosses.
But now we're on 2005, many years later. There are dozens of faqs teaching how to beat the Weapons. Dozens of different techniques. While in theory they may be "hard", for anyone with patience/knowledge of the game mechanics they aren't... and it makes more sense if an enemy has to be beaten by skill (FF10, just one more time, but there are others) not patience.
Back then, >> my << strategy was a simple 4xCut and counters, which was the first combo I thought (without using KOTR because I didn't like KOTR) and discussed possible with some friends. I gave it a try and, after many time leveling up materias, it worked... and I got all amazed. Too much free time, perhaps? Hehehe, after that, I enjoyed making different combos to see how they did behave. It wasn't quick, but it was easy. Just easy. Slow, sure, but easy.
My point was never saying that they were quick to be defeated, but easy. *Almost* every player of FF7 knows by now how to beat them, and even if they don't, they can just check gamefaqs and discover thousand methods of how. And the way to acquire these methods is easy. There is nothing hard on leveling up... unless you have no patience. Then, I guess that the real challenge would be fighting against your patience instead of the final fight against the Weapons :D
Cheers
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I'm not there yet.
I'm just before Cloud's flashback.
It'll take me a few days to get through it. I can send you my latest save right now if you wanna go through it yourself though.
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I would like it. Can you send me please?
Thanks
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Just sent it. Have fun.
edit : huh there seems to be a somewhat big problem. The latest version seems to be only 4k when I download it. It most obviously, crashes he game.
edit2: while I'm at it I was thinking something. When I fought Aps, he damaged himsel much more than I ever did. Since M4v3er's tool can easily edit elementals wouldn't it be nice to lower his actual HP a whole lot but make him immune to water attacks (hence his own) ? Another way to go at it would be give him a ridiculously low amount of HP but make him absorb his water damage to see if the party can inflict enough damage in one turn before he could fully heal himself. The side the wave is coming from could become an issue with this one however. Just a thought.
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Let's see here
FF7's really easy to keep your chars going? Know why?
Bolt Armlet with Elemental + any Thunder element materia.
Voila. Just attack yourself. Instant heal. It keeps going and going and going...
Oh yeah, and the Reflect Ring. Really beats up on bosses, too. Then there's the any summon 8 times trick...
Really the Materia System is EXTREMELY versatile and uber twinktastic. That's why they dealt away with it, even though it was so much damn fun...
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...I died the first time I fought Reno, because of the pyramids.
Cheers
elentor: lol happened to me too.. i thought the pyramids faded away over time :( .
btw i managed to beat midgar zolem(snake thingy) like you said at level 20 by using elemental + Fire level 2 this way you recieve only 500 damage from his nuke.
have you had much experience with open gl? i tried using it to modify quake II.net once but got pissed off at all the naming convention's and underscores. also have you checked out the HLSL (high level shader language) ive only had a brief look at it but by the looks of it it allows the animators + moderlers to make there own shader effects for individual models which is pretty cool (i may be mistaken tho).
also thanks for clearing that up about the potions i was going insane from stealing a hundred times just to get a potion.
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KojiroTakenashi: And that gets even more ridiculous once you get Slash-All. Just attack yourself and it's like having an Aeris limit. For free.
smithie: You mean, you managed to defeat *my* Midgar Zoloom at level 20? Try downloading the updated patch and doing it again... this kinda scared me. I have some experience with OpenGL, but keep in mind I'm not a programmer.
Marcis: Try downloading it again... I have no idea why it didn't uploaded properly.
The problem with Sewer Tsunami is that it is a Physical Attack, and I do not have the means to change it for now. Of course, if I knew how, I would make it a water attack and give him water immunity.
Again.. just check the bosses... the first attacks once per 4 turns and give you 3 turns to heal yourself... the second takes 5 times damage from behind, is slow as hell and is always with it's back turned to someone... a boss that damages himself more than you is not something very scary, right? :D
The "absorbing damage" would be an extra-cool idea to make him really challenging. If I ever manage to change the attributes of the attacks, I will be sure to do that.
Cheers
EDIT: Please ignore my stupidity. I just noticed that, even while the attack is physical, it possess the Water Element.
In other words, I'm gonna do it as I said on the next patch
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I just tried him again with the newest file.. this time i lost because i ran out of ethers and couldnt heal my character :( .
i tried to do it with lv23 cloud, yuffie + redXII
Basically you have redXII in the back row with long range materia + elemental fire defense. in the back row he only recieves about 300 damage from physical attacks and 700 from beta. red has about 1000 health so he can survive fairly easy, also you give him enemy skill so he can learn beta himself. once the other characters die i just leave them dead because they die too easy against him. In battle red needs to be able cast fury once before the other characters die out otherwise he cannot attack and heal himself quick enough.
Also im not sure about this but i think you can cast beta as soon as hes has learnt it. it dishes out 1400 damage to him and finishes him off fairly quick. Another thing to make it easyier is to slow the speed down with wait off so your characters bar moves along during animations and can get more attacks in against him.
the first time i did i did it with cloud as my main character in the back row in stead of red but you still need red to cast fury and cloud has less health. clouds 2nd level 2 limit break climhazard does roughly 1000 damage sometimes i think, which is cool.
well there you go. its a fairly hard boss so it might take a few tries.
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I have some experience with OpenGL, but keep in mind I'm not a programmer.
programmer or not some experience with OpenGL is still more then what ive got with it. :D .
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i tried to do it with lv23 cloud, selphie + redXII
Selphie?
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..
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Ahh.. opps my bad. I edited the post to fix it..
Ive got no idea why i called her that i just tend to always do. When it comes to remembering peoples names im hopeless.
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Clearly you are capable of editing your earlier post, so I assume your double-post was entirely intentional then. Don't double-post.
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I didn't think it was possible to beat the Midgar Zolom (18k HP, 125 STR) by this level.
I'm gonna rise up her challenge. Beta is a way too cheap spell to have for the whole first cd, even for a hard mode.
Thanks for your report.
Cheers
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Clearly you are capable of editing your earlier post, so I assume your double-post was entirely intentional then. Don't double-post.
ahh.. sorry i went to delete the first post after i had posted the second one but couldn't when i should've just edited the first. wont happen again.
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Hey Elentor, i thought of soemthing earlier...
I know that kotr doesnt work with Quadra magic.. any way to make it not work with mime, or have mime not work with counter? Or both? How about mime+limits?
If you could do that, then every Emerald/Ruby strategy out there would be null and void =)
Also, as per the Zolom/Beta: You could just lower how much damage Beta does, so that having it isn't such a huge deal. or radically increase the damage so it obliterates anyone under level 30 =P
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If I may make a suggestion for the patch, can you please alter the "Ribbon" accessory so that it TRULY DOES protect against all NEGATIVE status effects? I believe at the moment it does not negate Death, Near Death, Slow, and Stop.
Maybe you could also put in a Mighty Guard accessory? (Auto Haste + Auto Barrier + Auto MBarrier)
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Emperor: The problem on Beta is that it's an elemental magic.
Elemental + Fire owns it big time. Yea, sucks.
Mime is too overpowered. I will probably take it off, because I believe that changing these things are gonna to be *very* hard...
Marik: Same thing, I don't know if these things are possible. But then, I would only make it if it served the purpose of the patch being *harder*, if you can understand what I mean... but anyway, I didn't start messing with these files... *yet* :D
Cheers
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Anyone else have a nightmare of a time trying to beat jenova on the boat. i had to revive each character about ten times against it. and the worst part about it.. i just saved straight over my savegame, now im back in sector1 in midgar :evil: .
As for beta, shouldn't you just be able to double zolems magic strength? or will this not affect the damage dealt by the spell. if the strength of the spell is doubled to 2000+ damage you would need a much greater elemental defense and therefore a much higher character level.
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the elemental defense is always relative
Elemental level 1 = Halves
Elemental level 2 = Nulls
Elemental level 3 = Absorbs
Most people usually have elemental level 2 by the time they try to take Beta, which means Beta's power does not make the battle harder or easier.
Seems the curse of "losing the game after Jenova on the Boat" is affecting everyone. Happened with me, my fault too.
If you want I can send you a non-cheated, level 17 save on Costa Del Sol, cortesy of Alhexx.
Is Jenova too hard? I found her quite easy.
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Eletnor..you gona update soon? almost at costa del sol..btw, great job really!!! especially with the bosses! yea..that zolom kills me in like 30 secs..hehe
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I've never had elemental at level 2 at that point. Then again, i also don't have my characters at level 29 with all their 3rd level limits at that point like several people supposidly do.
Yet, i'm supposed to be an expert at this game. Pft.
I'd actually use the patch, if not for the fact that i don't have time. And also, if there are any far-reaching bugs, i dont want it affecting my in-progress walkthough =/
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i got something to report:
when the party first arrives at kalm and cloud has that flashback with sephy and they hafta fight the green dragon..we'll for some reason, cloud is unable to target the dragon nor sephy..only himself..and he always misses..and he dies in one hit from the dragon having only 100+ hp and the dragon dealing 400+ each time..so basically, cloud dies, and sephy CANNOT even damage the dragon! its always a miss..sephy dosent die though..always 0 damage on him..and occasionally he ses Life2 on cloud.but basically, its a never ending cycle of flamethrower and miss..
I used jenova to raise sephy's stats but still the dragon evades it all the time..the only solution for now is to replace the hardcore scene.bin with the original scene.bin for that part.
[edit] scratch that..replaced the hardcore scene w/ the orig..still same problem..hmm..[/edit]
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Well, Cloud is SUPPSOED to be a weakling and be no help in any of the flashback battles. SEPHY, on the other hand, is suppsoed to be a walking weapon of mass PWNAGE. Something got farked =/
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Yazoo:
I was rendering my 3D file.
You can check it here:
http://elentor.com/Render_Final1600Low.jpg
Lots of things I wanna fix on Photoshop post-working, but it's about the way I wanted.
So, I'm gonna update as soon as I have free non-3D time.
About your Report.
I didn't edit either Sephiroth, the Dragon or Cloud.
That's very weird. I'll check it later, but like you said, might not be my patch's problem.
EmperorSteele: At that point you have to level up like mad on the Mythril Cave.
The first time I played, I wanted to get beta so bad, but I was very young (about 10 years old) and very unexperienced, I leveled up Elemental to level 3. Yea, I'm mad.
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Thats some nice work there elentor! I understand as to why you cant update and thats perfectly understandable. Everyone has a life they need to attend to. But yea, good luck with the 3d stuff and hope to d/l an update soon! I should also thank you very much for making this hardcore scene.bin because its what got me to pick up ff7 after years of eating dust. I love the challenge!
btw, excellent job with the zolom..and also, heli gunner is too weak..bolts totally pwned him. Increase the hp of some monsters in the mythril cave too..other than that, its all good! thanks again!!
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Hi, I would just like to say many thanks for doing something I have wanted to do since I joined this forum many years ago.
I look forward to rebuilding my pentium 3 PC and installing Windows 98 and using my old 3dfx voodoo5 graphics card and sit down and play this hardcore FF7 version.
But till then I will reserve judgement, as I can be very picky.
Expect some bug reports in the not to near future.
Thanks for the hard work
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Is Jenova too hard? I found her quite easy.
Jenova was a good difficulty considering its supposta be a hardcore boss.. i love that fight especially the music.
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yea i think jenova was easy too..2 summons, continuous level 2 attack magic and limit breaks every 2-3 turns..beat rush 2/2 alone owned jenova.
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Hey Yazoo, about something getting screwed up with Sephy... I had the same problem, turns out somehere along the line his equipment got clusterfscked. If you download Qhimm's Jenova, you can equip him with one of Vincent stronger weapons and he thuroughly whoops ass again. Young cloud IS supposed to die like that, however he also had some equipment issues that make the rest of the flashback a little weird.
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mind you those this mod actually change the experience point that you receive?
If you get more EXP than it counters the fact the bosses are harder.
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That is very strange, scene.bin doesn't alter the equipment, much less the characters, and much less Sephiroth...
Again, very weird.
The Skillster: I made a big text about the EXP in my mod... it is in the "Scene.bin editing" thread.
To make it short: I'm rising the exp in a few areas and reducing in others, but not enough to make the bosses easier.
Increased 25% of experience will not make the game cheaper. Supposing this 25% applied to the whole game, AND it meant y ou was supposed to get 1/4 more levels than you should (which we know the two affirmations are wrong), and supposing Cloud is in an area where his average level is 11 (and I will suppose that you will fight Guard Scorpion by level 11, which we all know it's possible, with patience, but I doubt anyone other than me keeps leveling up), that means his level will now be (rounding up) 14 (which would never be).
If by some ungodly reason you manage to get the maximum bonuses per level, and supposing your original Strength was 26, this means you will have a damage enhancement of (not counting weapons).
Original: 26 + 11+26/32 * 11*26/32 = 26 + 1,15*8,9 = 26+10 = 36
"Added" Experience: 35 + 14+35/32 * 14*35/32 = 35 + 1,5*15 = 57
Difference: 1,6x or an additional 60% damage.
Now compare his HP, which changed from 800 to 2000, an additional 150% value. The difference between this and the damage is of 120%, or more than the double. The "statistical" difference still overweights the "extra bonus", even if he, somehow, managed to give you a full effect through the whole. But this is all theorical. In the game, it won't even make that 60% different, or any at all.
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Has anyone ever tried leveling up in that first area?? i tried with my new save game and ran out of potions. it took about five hours to get my health back up high enough to fight the boss because i couldn't find enough potions. by the time i got out of there barret and cloud where lv17.
Never will i try that again.
The Skillster: With the characters up higher level, over double what most people fight the first boss with the bolt spell still only did 150 damage to most enemies compaired to the usual 100 damage. the only real difference it made was my characters max health/mp(700/100).
This is ahh.. off topic but never mess with windows :weep: .
its been a bad day today for me. uninstalling/reinstalling bah..
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Hey Elentor, is this going to be pursued further ?
I'll most likely get some more free time to test further this weekend.
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i think this is a great idea, one i thought of frequently...
ive noticed this thread kinda died out the last couple weeks, im hoping this project wasnt abandoned...
i just downloaded the file, and will start playing tonight, ill post some feedback on it...
thanx for spending so much time on this!
peace
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I've got mine completed and updated if anyone wants it.. only problem is the current link is and old file so you will have to PM your email address to me so i can send it too you.
It should be playable without needing to level up heavily like in the previous version.
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smithie, do you mean you completed like ur own version of this, and finished balancing/making more difficult the entire game?
im interested, im just curious to what the backround is for it, like how the difficulty is, what types of things are changed, and ur experience with it...
my email is :
[email protected]
thanks!
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I will send it to you now.
I made it while waiting for elentor to finish of his. The entire game is completed, every stat of every creature is doubled except lv. the creature lv. has been change down to only 1 and 1/2 times their original value. The rewards and steal rates are also increased.
The entire game with the mod is now very playable, i've only just got vincent and am lv. 49( my group average is lv.43). Also you shouldn't be required to level up much anymore.
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thanx, im gonna give it a try right now...
is it easier or harder than enentor's?
i gave his a try and lost to "guard scorpion" twice, i think cuz i used my potions too early...
ill post some feedback later...
peace
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:o man I need that finished patch please, ff7 needs more challenge, my e-mail is [email protected]
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hey can you send it to me?
[email protected]
if you want i can upload it for you or something.
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Just a question here.. How close is your hardcore patch to completion? Is it done and I just missed something?
After seeing advent children I was thinking of revisiting FF7 .. Toying with the idea.. I think it would be a lot of work to install all the needed patches and tweak everything..
If your patch isnt finished.. Do you know when it will be?
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there is my emai... i will look close a this patch
[email protected]
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Hey all, this is my first post. I'd just like to say awesome work on it. I tested it by patching the BIN into the PSOne and testing it on epsxe. The Guard Scoripon was a bit of a pushover (I beat him on Lvl 7 without any problems), but I got thorougly owned in Sector 5. I think you could make it uber hard if you decreased AP awards to 1, and making Ethers and Potions more pricey. Just my thoughts, hope I don't sound like a n00b :lol: .[/i]
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Just joined these forums recently, everything everyone has ben doing here is great, I really you get to the last boss on this hardcore patch the game is way too simple i have completed it around 30times =/ a challange should help me keep up the good work.
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This patch sounds like a great idea. I've always loved FF7 and thought it to be a pushover.. this should add some nice challenge.
On another note, are you only using that one program to make this mod/patch?
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Hi
well done on a great hack!
But I want to say something after trying for like 4 times on the first boss.
The first boss maybe a touch extreme!
Why?
- You cannot of course buy or aquire healing and ressurection items in the reactor at the start of the game.
- You randomly pick up 1 potion and/or 1 ether - No Pheonix Downs!
- after using up all your ethers and potions and maybe a pheonix down on the first boss - how can you get out alive?[/list:u]
I feel you cant level up much before the 1st boss since you are limited in potions and cannot get more than 2 pheonix downs.
So I must admit - the first boss is uber extreme!
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edit:
Having read 1 post above I suppose the patch has massive levelling up in mind, but please remember - it is hard to win potions after battles in the reactor at the start of the game!
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*BUMP*
I read that this patch only covers enemies upto Jenova Birth?
Is anyone continuing this? What is the safest tool to use to continue editing of the enemies in this scene.bin?
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BUMP again...
The Skillster, I think that the best tool to edit monsters is still a good old hex-editor, as - if I remember correctly - M4v3R's utility still has the "Potion" bug. :cry:
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Aye yai yai...buddy, since you're new, I won't tear you apart TOO much ( :wink: ) but don't, don't, don't revive old topics! haha
If they're more than a couple months, it's a bad idea to post in them. Consult the forum rules:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=5834.0
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Yeah, but the rules state
If you really have something worthwhile to add, you can resurrect a dead topic. Otherwise... no. The limit is usually considered to be around two weeks, more or less. Certainly less than a month.
I thought that answering The Skillster's question was worthwhile enough to resurrect the topic :wink:
Besides, I guess a good topic like this one shouldn't die this easily :roll:
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The topic had been dead since October.
For future reference, it would have been best to just leave it.
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Hi all !!!
This project is a good idea!
But I just a question, please with which software can one modify the enemies?
and if it is posible, where I can download it?
thank you for your answers!!!
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While not wanting to infuriate any mod by moving this topic from the 2nd page to the first, I'd like to inquire about this mod-- as I'm extremely interested and have just ordered a copy of ff7 PC because I caught wind of this.
I read about the mod on some forums I came across and it got me extremely excited. Due to my usual overzealousness I ordered my copy prematurely-- without reading this topic-- and therefore am now learning that the mod ended up less than half-way complete. This 'goneaway' cat seemingly has finished his own version and I would definitely like to obtain it-- I've just noticed that he hasn't posted here in quite some time.
Does anyone else have his version?
Moreover, I'd like to thank Elentor for starting this amazing idea, breathing life into a game that is approaching it's decade-birthday-- and giving me a reason to order a copy of the PC version, so I can beat ff7 for the 10th plus time.