Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: ReWriteRuniko on 2007-08-10 22:03:51
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Hey everybody, this is my first post here, though I've lurked for a little while before joining :-)
I just re-installed my old (OLD!) copy of FF7 for PC once I discovered the magic of modding this little baby. (Thanks, XKCD! http://www.xkcd.com/299/ (http://www.xkcd.com/299/) )
So now I have it up and running with the High-poly NPC patch (awsome), Ficedula's music patch (lovin' it), and the 9999 limit breaker (haven't leveled up that far yet :D )
along with all the other neat little tools, I got Ficedula's Cosmo editor for the flevel.lgp file, and when I realized what I could do with it, it brought back to life an old fantasy of mine: ReWriting the FF7 script!
With almost all the final fantasy games, a lot is lost in the translation to english (for example, I love the old direct translation patch for FF6, cussing and all) and sometimes localization teams honor the spirit of the game less than say, a fan might.
So here is my plan: I'm going to get a complete script in front of me as it now stands. Then I'm going to edit, improve, correct, and basically re-create the entire thing. My hope is to create a fresh, dynamic feel to the dialog that is completely true to the spirit of FF7 that we all know and love.
Here are some of the things I would like, or need help on:
- Is Cosmo the best utility to do this with? Is there a better one out there?
- Has anyone attempted to do this before? If so, I'd love to contribute what I can to the "scene"
- Can someone give me a list of the actual level-file location names (ancnt3, anfrst_1, etc) linked to where they are in the game? I can work this out by trial and error, but if someone else already has, that would make things much faster starting out.
Thanks so much for all the mods and tools, guys! I look forward to using them all!
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Hmm, ambitious project. IIRC, someone else is going around fixing typos and other botched translation, but mweh, i could be mistaken.
A -lot- of those file names relate to where they are (anct, for example, is the ancient city, iirc), but as I'm sure you've seen, some of them don't mesh, and a few are actually mislabled... and a few even have dialog for other parts of the game!
However, I've little advice besides that to give you. I don't know of anyone who's compiled a list for what = where. I know it's not what you bargained for, but perhaps if you make the list while doing your re-translation, the community will be further impressed by your achievements =)
Also, you might wanna try "Loveless" for your text editing. Its main advantage over Cosmo is that you can resize the text windows to make them as big or small as you want: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6013.0 It also has a little pciture window so you can SEE which "scene" you're editing =)
for future reference, most of the major mods and projects can be found here: http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/Technical/Customising
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It's a good idea that's worth trying. I attempted to do this myself and I think I still have my edited file, but it causes crashes in at least a couple of spots. For example (After the fight with Jenova Synthesis prior to fighting Sephiroth for the first time. It crashes after the XP is given out and the item screen is shown. :S )
There was at least one other place I encountered this problem, but I don't remember where it was offhand. Although I am sure it was near the beginning.
Suffice it to say, in my case I think it has to do with some sort of compatibility issue associated with my computer's setup, as other's have edited this file to their liking and it isn't causing them any problem. Just letting you know this as well so I don't discourage you from trying at least.
If you do get everything done and it works perfectly over on your end, I'll be sure to download it to test it out. ;)
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Definately go for "Loveless" - excellent program :-D As Emeror Steele has said, even though there is no list for what each location name is, Loveless gives you a picture preview of what the each location is (click on it for a bigger view) so you should be able to work it out.
Good luck with this mod - I'll be waiting to test the first release :wink:
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AGENT: I think that's the part where there's a black screen, and the text goes:
Jenova: "...You are a puppet."
Cloud: "A puppet?"
I don't know where THAT text is stored, but in your editing you may have somehow mucked that part up.
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Thanks for the supportive posts! Right now I'm going through the level files trying to find all the dialog for the first couple of scenes (opening -> arrival at 7th Heaven)
Here's two questions that have popped up so far:
- Why are there duplicates of a bunch of level files? There's four "City of the Ancients" levels that are all identical. Do I have to change all four?
- What's the best way to release this once I get it going? I mean, the flevel.lgp file is over a hundred meg, so how can I make a patch?
If anyone has any suggestions about these first scenes, give me a pm or post it here! Once I get them done, I'll put up a 0.01a patch.
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Loveless is only useable, if you use Find and replace, otherwise after a while Loveless "crash"
Find and replace is usefull, becouse, same dialogs are same trougth several levels. But levels are not same only dialogs.
We are working with Sapphire, but its create bugs - crash, change music, ... But it do loveless maybe too(I didnt tested loveless, and I dont know anyone who tested it troughly).
We maybe try loveless/cosmo on levels, whitch are troublesome.
Cosmo has tool create patch, whitch create patch for text changes. Set qhimm compression is recommened.
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[Post removed - I changed my mind] -ReWriteRuniko
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Loveless is only useable, if you use Find and replace, otherwise after a while Loveless "crash"
Find and replace is usefull, becouse, same dialogs are same trougth several levels. But levels are not same only dialogs.
We are working with Sapphire, but its create bugs - crash, change music, ... But it do loveless maybe too(I didnt tested loveless, and I dont know anyone who tested it troughly).
We maybe try loveless/cosmo on levels, whitch are troublesome.
Cosmo has tool create patch, whitch create patch for text changes. Set qhimm compression is recommened.
uh... what?
note : i'm not trying to be mean or anything it's just that's hard to read
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Loveless is only useable, if you use Find and replace, otherwise after a while Loveless "crash"
Find and replace is usefull, becouse, same dialogs are same trougth several levels. But levels are not same only dialogs.
We are working with Sapphire, but its create bugs - crash, change music, ... But it do loveless maybe too(I didnt tested loveless, and I dont know anyone who tested it troughly).
We maybe try loveless/cosmo on levels, whitch are troublesome.
Cosmo has tool create patch, whitch create patch for text changes. Set qhimm compression is recommened.
uh... what?
note : i'm not trying to be mean or anything it's just that's hard to read
I think what he's saying is Loveless is okay but not great, because while it has find-and-replace, it crashes after you use it for a while (I agree, it happened to me too). He says he was using Sapphire, but it caused crashes and music changes in the game, but he thinks Loveless might do that too, but he doesn't know anybody who's tested Loveless thoroughly. He says to try Cosmo on levels that give Loveless trouble.
Did I get that right, kruci?
Also he says Cosmo has a utility for making patches. I'll have to look into that...
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Yeah you got it right.
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You can use LGP tools to make auto patches aswell. :wink:
I wouldn't really alter the personalitys of the characters - the characters are what we all love - it's just the wooden dialogue that needs changing. I'd think it would be best if you kept as close to the origional characters as possible.
I've used Loveless "extensively" and I find it really reliable. If it ever crashes it warns you that it's running low on memory, allowing you to save, close the program and run it again just fine.Â
With the four identical city of the ancients dialogues, even though each screen displays all the dialogue in the temple of the Ancients, if you make alterations to dialogue that isn't said specifically on the screen your making alterations to, the changes won't show up. I hope that makes sense - Kinda hard to explain. :-P
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You can use LGP tools to make auto patches aswell. :wink:
I tried only a bit, so I cant say so much. Here my experience.
I tested sam LGP archive with some dialog changes.
Cosmo worked fine, created patch has about 4kb, i took some time, but it worked.
(Cosmo should do only patch for text changes)
LGPtool worked very long time, and then I killed it. Patch that "remain"(but could be some error in file) had about 1.5MB.
Auto patches(exe files patches) dont work for me.
Do you have another experience?
I've used Loveless "extensively" and I find it really reliable. If it ever crashes it warns you that it's running low on memory, allowing you to save, close the program and run it again just fine.
Me Lovelles give error messages "parametr is wrong"(usualy first) and then "Le canevas nepermet pas de dessiner". With second ususaly crash/freeze/or repeat message after closing last. I
f I try save after first error, it do wrong LGP archive. So I must save before some error message.
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I wouldn't really alter the personalitys of the characters - the characters are what we all love - it's just the wooden dialogue that needs changing. I'd think it would be best if you kept as close to the origional characters as possible.
Hmm... now that I think about it, you're right about that :) No dramatic changes except to liven up the dialog, and maybe fix some weirdness. For example, right at the start of the game, (I know it's just a little thing) it always bugged me when Jesse says "Code deciphered" while pushing the button. I think something like "I hope this code works" or "Alright, I'm entering the code now; get ready!" makes more sense. :wink: Maybe I'm too anal, I dunno.
Can I edit the in-battle text at all? I'm really itching to fix "Attack while it's tail is up! / It's gonna counter with it's laser."
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Can I edit the in-battle text at all? I'm really itching to fix "Attack while it's tail is up! / It's gonna counter with it's laser."
You can edit in-battle text, its in scene.bin. Editor whitch can edit battle dialogs I doesnt know(maybe doesnt exist). Actualy you can edit it with HEXeditor, but you must not change file and text lenght.
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Heh, Barret's dialog there is funny if Cloud is KOd: He's all "I dunno what's going on, but... it don't look good. Let's see what happens if I attack when its tail's up!"
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This a great idea! It's needed and requested so much.
I haven't played FF7 in years, and recently I got it for the PC and added all these awesome mods, I've been playing it, but after playing more recent RPGs that had a good translation, I noticed that the dialogue in FF7 is just horrendous. There's so much that just doesn't make any sense at all. To this day I don't understand the whole Cloud, Zack, Sephiroth cloning stuff (I guess it's all up to interpretation, but the poor translation doesn't help at all.)
Here's some things I can recommend while doing this project.
-Instead of basing the retranslation around the original english version, try to find a script of the original Japanese version straight foward translated into english. If that's not available, maybe find someone who understands Japanese well and have him help, and if you can't find someone to that, then maybe translate it using google translate or something (It would be a long procress, but in my opinion I think it would be much better.)
-Read up on how people feel the characters are. Advent Children presents the characters in a very developed form, and they don't stray too far from the way they present themselves as they do in the English version of the game. (Like sometimes Cloud will be a smartass who thinks he's really tough, then he will be dark and secretive, then he will be a ambiguous leader. I mean, I can understand slight variations of emotions, but they vary so much in the original version it's hard to tell which way a character is. Another example would be Vincent, he's depressed and dark, then he'll make a really awkward joke that doesn't make sense.) I mean, some people like the way the characters present themselves in the game, mostly for nostalgic anime purposes,I presume. (Old anime was always this way, y'know, because it had poor translations in most cases.) So like, maybe you could set up the characters, and completely re-design their presence and demeanor before writing new dialogue.
-Uncensor the cursing! XD
If you need any help writing natural dialogue, lemme know, I've always been interested in doing something like this.
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Going straight from the original Japanese script is currently my goal (Because I can read and speak Japanese, I think it will work out pretty well), but I'm having a hell of a time finding it. Anyone know where it might be found, or have any suggestions as to how to go about that? I mean, if I had a copy of the Japanese game, it might work since I could copy the text out with one of these great editors...
So the project is currently stalled until I find a good way to get the script...
Thanks for your suggestions, JayDecay! I'll definitely keep them in mind when I sit down to write. And if you could help with the proofreading after I get some of the copy done, I'd appreciate it!
If anyone has any suggestions, please post them!
Thanks!
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You could illegally download a Japanese version of the PSX version and emulate it on the PC using a torrent site somewhere, I'm sure the JAP PSX version wouldn't be too hard to find, just copying all the text from that would be a chore in itself. As for a Japanese PC version, I have no idea... For a legal bought version I'm sure it would cost a pretty penny.
I found the American script and direct translations from Japanese to English of key parts of the game, but finding the Japanese script seems like it might be quite the task... Maybe try searching Japanese search engines for "Final Fantasy VII Script?" (In Japanese of course.)
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I wouldn't do anything illegal, and even if I did, I wouldn't want to get this thread deleted for discussing it :|
But yeah, I'll keep looking.
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Don't mean to be a pain, but have you made any progress finding a game script?
Are you looking for the original Japanese? I'm currently doing a number of searches for it because I'm really interested in this project. I found the FF6 fan translation amazing. I wish I could speak and read Japanese so I could help more but alas! I'll just do what I can.
Good luck... I'll edit this post if I find something.
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*EDIT* Wrong stuff. This is the script for Dirge of Cerebus.
Sweet, I found some stuff:
http://ff7.onlinfo.net/
It is in Japanese, but I'm checking to see how complete it is.
Update later...
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Alright, I have my eye on an old import copy of FF7.
If I get it, how do I go about ripping the script out of the PSX discs? (That would be a much easier way to start translating than taking screenshots of every dialog box...)
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Are the PSX flevel files not the same as the PC ones? I think you'd just rip the file from the disc and read it with loveless...or Cosmo or whatever program you're using. But do they support Japanese text?
If what I just said was entirely idiotic and laughable please don't eat me, just ignore me.
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I put the import PSX copy of ff7 in my drive. I used ePSXe with a Japanese BIOS to test and make sure it ran alright.
Now the problem.
For the PC version, there is a data folder with compressed archives in it (flevel.lgp), but on the PSX disc, all the locations are uncompressed in folders (like ANCNT1.BSX, ANCNT1.DAT, ANCNT1.MIM all in the FIELD folder).
Is there some way I can access this data with an editor? Loveless only works with the flevel.lgp, afterall...
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search forum for more details
I found this: good tools of lasyan3
http://lasyan3.free.fr/mytools/
if you can french visit his site for more details http://lasyan3.free.fr/
hack7_en.zip is DAT file editor in options you need configure PC/PSX
script_dump.zip is DAT dumper(extractor) , extract script and dialog
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Thanks!! :wink:
I'll try those out right away and see what I can see!