Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: big_country on 2008-08-26 03:29:44
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I figured this would be the place to ask. Last October I finished my improved dialogue project for FF7 PC, in which I used the text editor Loveless. To my knowledge no one else has released anything like this, so that's why I'm asking before I try to upload it and present it.
I'm very familiar with the game's story and for the gray areas I consulted several FF7 forums and translation guides for help in piecing together some of the more vague aspects of the plot. I also expanded the dialogue in some cases, particularly Cloud's plot recaps, the Kalm flashback, and Hojo's explanation of the Reunion in the North Cave, in an attempt to reinforce the plot. I didn't just focus on key scenes however, I fixed several cases of bad grammar throughout and altered some lines to be more appropriate in context.
Altogether I'm pretty satisfied with the finished product, but there's one major downside to it all. You can play through the entire game using my modified flevel.lgp, right until you beat Jenova for the last time on Disc 3. I'm guessing all that editing corrupted the flevel file and so to continue, you have to replace it with either the original file or the extra one I edited just for Disc 3 to make the end dialogue better.
As you can imagine, this was a hard pill to swallow. I was practically finished with the whole project and it decides to screw up on me right at the end. That's why I've just sat on it for so long. But if anyone thinks they'd like to try it, then why let all that effort go to waste?
Anyone who was able to get ficedula's music plug in to work should be comfortable using my file. I've included instructions on how to use it by:
A) Doing a full install of the game to the hard drive and just placing my edited file in the right place (easy way). Of course, when you get to Disc 3, you'll need to change the file out with the alternate version using this method but still, easy enough.
B) Installing the game so it reads the CDs for its data, then creating specialized play discs that work just like the official ones, only you replace the flevel file on them with mine. I prefer this way myself, no late game file swapping so it seems more professional. (For this to work properly you need CD burning software that can edit CD's names, as the discs will need to be named FF7DISC1 etc.)
Let me know what you think. If nothing else, it gives you an excuse to play through it again. You may even get a better idea of the story! If there's enough interest, I'll find a way to host it so people can download it.
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im interested! Sounds great, ill check it out, im just about to install the game again.
gimme the download link in a PM or somthing
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I'm interested too. I just started a new game to try out gjoerulv's hardcore mod, so this will be a great addition.
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What exactly do you mean by improved English? I think the translation for the game is fine, but I'm curious as to what you've exactly done with the script.
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there are lots of messed up dialogue in the game, which hardly makes any sense. that's why improvement is necessary
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there are lots of messed up dialogue in the game, which hardly makes any sense. that's why improvement is necessary
Yeah, we've noticed that in FF7Voice so a fair bit of dialogue has been edited so it makes more sense and sounds better to the listener
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sounds good...id like to get my hands on it...but instead of burning new cds could u use ISOs of them? and how would u go about doing that?
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Sorry everyone, I was out of town for a few days there. Anyway, let me address the questions asked.
"What exactly do you mean by improved English? I think the translation for the game is fine, but I'm curious as to what you've exactly done with the script."
In most cases, the original script was good enough. That's why it only took me a month to finish the project. But there were several bits here and there that just mangled the English language, or at the very least were just awkwardly delivered. I'm playing through it again now with my files in place, and for the first two hours, there are very few changed entries at all. I'm enough of a purist to where I left well enough alone, but FF7's overall translation could be described as spotty at best and godawful at worst, especially in comparison to FF8 or even Xenogears.
But mainly, I was interested in making the story easier to understand and free of contradictions. One example that comes to mind regards the Cetra. The way Sephiroth explains them, they sound like they came from another planet to cultivate the world FF7 takes place in. There's even a plot guide on GameFAQs that interpreted it that way. The truth is, they were born from the Planet in FF7, (Gaia, if you want) and were simply nomads. I've changed the dialogue to reflect this.
Also I felt like Jenova's significance to the plot was handled poorly. The first time I played the game, I never understood that it was Jenova assuming the appearance of Sephiroth that you were chasing throughout the story. So in my project, I added a few extra boxes of text to Professor Hojo's explanation of the Reunion and to Sephiroth's dialogue in the Nibelheim illusion to discuss Jenova's shape-shifting and mind-reading abilities. These changes among many others.
"...instead of burning new cds could u use ISOs of them? and how would u go about doing that?"
You don't have to burn new cds, it's just the more elegant solution to the file swapping problem. You can still do the full install of the game and put the edited files in your FF7 directory and be just fine.
If you want the CDs though, you'd have to burn the discs from the ISOs you have, then follow my guide to replace the correct files, then burn another set of CDs using the customized data. Then you could make ISO's out of those... but that's a lot of trouble! Maybe you could save the customized data as an ISO...? Never tried that before.
"Yeah, we've noticed that in FF7Voice so a fair bit of dialogue has been edited so it makes more sense and sounds better to the listener"
Man, you guys have your work cut out for you. Even with the parts I didn't change, there's enough of that dialogue that sounds fine when read but would probably sound awkward when spoken. Good luck to you guys on that.
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It's more than that as well. It also includes a lot of the unused dialog so it adds content. If you're really that familiar with the script, and are interested in this, you should contact Mesden. He's hurting for a new script guy.
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I'm interested, I think it would be fantastic to play through with improved dialogue.
Are you going to release it soon?
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I'd be interested.
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Me too. Please keep us posted :-D
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Is this going to be released at any point or did we all just express our interest for nada?
^_^
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I'll stick my pawprint of the "I'm interested" nature onto the list. There are bits of FF7 that I *still* don't fully understand, and I've been through the game a few times now. A BIG example of this is Cloud's dual-personality nature - To this day I don't ~fully~ get what's going on there.
A well-written change like this would be a very, very good addition to my next play-through.
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I'll stick my pawprint of the "I'm interested" nature onto the list. There are bits of FF7 that I *still* don't fully understand, and I've been through the game a few times now. A BIG example of this is Cloud's dual-personality nature - To this day I don't ~fully~ get what's going on there.
A well-written change like this would be a very, very good addition to my next play-through.
If and when the FF7Voice project concludes, this will be made much more clear. If you'd REALLY just like the explanation now, I can give it to you. I'm a massive FF7 freak, I know the story inside and out. Only FF7 mind you. I'm not so into the spin-offs. :|
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Heh, nah it's all good.
I'm about to do another playthrough now actually, using a Hojo-modified Scene.bin file in which every monster (with the exception of uberbosses like Emerald and final Sephiroth) has had its HP x'd by 10, and every stat (Str, Dex, etc) increased by 10. :-o EXP, AP and Gil rewards have been doubled to "compensate" in some limited manner.
Definitely looking forward to this though, will clear up a lot for quite a few players I'm sure; myself included.
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did this idea die or what? Id love to see updated text.
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I hope not, I'd like to see a release as well
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i am replaying the game at the moment, and noticed how bad the language is at times, i think its strange how the PSX and PC versions have differant text at some points, It would be good aleast to just get Barrets language back , the #£$&% in most of his lines can get annoying.
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Well if someone out there knows of a good text update for the game or knows the guy who put this thread together PLEASE throw a link! In the meantime Im going to keep this thread alive..............come back BIG COUNTRY!
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Definite_interest+=1
I actually tried to do this myself a while ago, but with no success. It really didn't help that Cosmo didn't work as advertised for me, forcing me to manually decrypt the scenes (some wossname-utility someone else made, mind) and edit them with Notepad... But yeah, I'm interested, me.
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Definite_interest+=1
I actually tried to do this myself a while ago, but with no success. It really didn't help that Cosmo didn't work as advertised for me, forcing me to manually decrypt the scenes (some wossname-utility someone else made, mind) and edit them with Notepad... But yeah, I'm interested, me.
this guy who started the thread says he has the complete text update finished and ready to go......why did you not leave a link Big Country? dangg
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:evil:
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I think its dead.
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@Silent Warrior link
Maybe LoveLess helps? Worked better for me, sometimes. I couldn't massrename names with Cosmo, but with LoveLess i could.
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Mass-rename? I don't know what that would do for me, but I've already got Loveless installed, actually. And I've been industriously de-engrishifying the whole thing for a few weeks now - working alphabetically, now down to s-something or other. And FF7 still works with the modified LGP... Of course, I haven't yet played to an area where I've made extensive updates, but that's a good start, at least.
Goals:
- It must make sense (Engrish to be removed)
- What I perceive as bloody silly must go (Buugen's 'Ho Ho Hooo's nearly eradicated, Hojo in Costa del Sol should be a tiny bit more mature)
- Points for style awarded if the item-names in the "Received item "x"!"-boxes match the kernel.bin-line-up
Current report from Loveless's Compare: "Different number of texts in each file." 8-) (I guess the parser has a fit over the couple of {NEW PAGE}es that I deleted.)
But, seriously, have anyone of you checked out just how much... well, massive quantity of art AND text, there is for Junon?? Beep me sideways, I tell you!
I also noticed that Loveless seems to have a memory-leak...
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- Points for style awarded if the item-names in the "Received item "x"!"-boxes match the kernel.bin-line-up
Oddly enough, these names are hard-coded into the field's text. They aren't adaptive at all. If you replace the beginning potions with Ultima Materia it'll still say "received 'potion'". This game is NOT modder friendly. If you want to replace an item you'll have to alter the text that says what it is your party is getting. Personally, I'd prefer an earlier instance of the Shield materia.
Anyway, I'd like to help with this if I can. Since playing through making save games in Midgar I've noticed a lot of poorly-worded liners that makes me think that no one person read the entire script after it was translated.
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Oh, beep me sideways... OK, so here I am, monkeying around with FF7Music (effin' MIDI...), first pass de-Engrishification complete, the game boots just fine with the new LGP, and then what? I make another attempt at getting FF7Music to work, and the new exe won't run! I am GRUMPY! Still, it is A touched-up dialog (and some 130 Mb instead of the original 120+-something). Not a 100% perfect v1.0 sort of thing - some text-windows need adjusting, but, meh... Some day I'll have time to take another crack at it - this time to nullify the superfluous texts (like having the entire Junon execution-up-til-Weapon-attack-episode in every Junon-file, the debug-thingies).
I have some manner of muley thingy - you should be able to find it there under the name of 'FF7PC Updated texts [SW].7z'. (Hey, open source!) 115 Mb or so. ed2k-link:
ed2k://|file|FF7PC.updated.texts.[SW].7z|121165063|A9AC714AA59EFEBE822D8F5569D639D6|/
Savvy young bucks like you lot should be able to make heads and tails of that.
Also, the internet-access-part is a funny li'l thing. I generally wake up early, but I think your only real chance to get the file from me that way is by being up somewhere between 5 and 9 AM GMT. Yup. It appears the speeds drop right around 8.30 regular, in fact.
If there are any other suggestions on where to upload this in a more accessible form, I'll go to work on those during the weekend. Possibly.
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Excellent idea. I want to replay FF7 on the PC with all the great visual enhancement mods, but memories of the bad localization are keeping me at bay. However, I think the idea should seriously be extended to FF8 as well. It suffers from half-baked translation, too. I'm interested in polishing FF8's dialogue, but unfortunately I have no idea how to work Garden and there don't seem to be any other editors around that enable you to edit the game script.
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Not only poor translation, I'd like to say... Garden... I tried to use it once, but I only got the source-code in the download - pretty useless when you don't have a compiler at hand. :-P It's usable now, then?
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Only the source code has been released as far as I know. Don't know the first thing about how to compile it either. Maybe I could benefit from some research.
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anyone know what's going on with the patch on the improved language? it seems pretty dead to me
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IT would be great if we could get a solid team working on this. I'll lend a hand if something concrete ever gets going.
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i would help anyway i could to help this whole thing move along,but i have no idea how to do so
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All I did was to get Loveless and start working. It doesn't seem to be any greater secret than that. Of course, you'd probably love to have a dedicated tester to go along with the effort. There are A TON of things you'll want to test to make sure you worked with the correct area...
(Note that Loveless doesn't seem to compress the files as much as Square/Eidos...)
Well, methodic determination is key. There are many files, many conversations, an awful lot to touch up, plenty of opportunity for dubious continuity in textual polish.
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Thanks, that was all i really needed to know. :-D
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I've stated this before and i'll state it again, I'll also lend a hand where I can. Proof-reading or testing or whatever.
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That would be really cool. Thanks for offering. ^_^
There is one little thing though...I cant find a link for Loveless anywhere. Does anyone have a link for it?
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Now that everyone is expressing his or her own idea, I express mine too. No, I'm not interested in "FF7 PC Improved English dialogue".
When I played Final Fantasy for the first time (that is, a few month ago,) I had no problem whatsoever understanding the plot. I found no vagueness nor any ambiguity... or at least, that was my impression. Now that I occasionally visit FF7 communities, I'm begining to realize how different other people have interpreted the game's plot and more importantly how different the creators of the game intended the storyline to be. I'm starting to hate Final Fantasy VII's official plotline which I once thought as a work of genius per my own interpretation.
So, I want neither to be enlightened nor informed about the plot. I'd like remain in my ignorance and cling to my own blissful interpretation of the plot that I so much like. After all, when it comes to fiction and especially computer games, facts completely lose the importances that they have in the real life.
So, no, I'm not interested in "FF7 PC Improved English dialogue" because I love Final Fantasy VII.
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Now that everyone is expressing his or her own idea, I express mine too. No, I'm not interested in "FF7 PC Improved English dialogue".
When I played Final Fantasy for the first time (that is, a few month ago,) I had no problem whatsoever understanding the plot. I found no vagueness nor any ambiguity... or at least, that was my impression. Now that I occasionally visit FF7 communities, I'm begining to realize how different other people have interpreted the game's plot and more importantly how different the creators of the game intended the storyline to be. I'm starting to hate Final Fantasy VII's official plotline which I once thought as a work of genius per my own interpretation.
So, I want neither to be enlightened nor informed about the plot. I'd like remain in my ignorance and cling to my own blissful interpretation of the plot that I so much like. After all, when it comes to fiction and especially computer games, facts completely lose the importances that they have in the real life.
So, no, I'm not interested in "FF7 PC Improved English dialogue" because I love Final Fantasy VII.
And you posted this, why? You could have easily just ignored everything that was said and just let everyone not know your unimportant opinion.
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I agree. I had a lot of this on my own translating thread. At the end of the day like said 1000 times, if someone doesnt like the idea they just don't install the mod.
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And you posted this, why? You could have easily just ignored everything that was said and just let everyone not know your unimportant opinion.
With all due respect, please note that the thread title reads: "is anyone interested?" which means my opinion as a forum member is being inquired.
Now, let's act like civilized people and keep in mind that everyone's opinion is respectable for himself or herself and there is no problem expressing it, especially when it is explicitly inquired, (although as long as it is not expressed in an obscene, insolent, disrespectful or threatening manner.)
I agree. I had a lot of this on my own translating thread. At the end of the day like said 1000 times, if someone doesnt like the idea they just don't install the mod.
Well, the solution is simple my friend: If you do not tolerate opposing opinions, do not ask for it in your own threads. (You needn't explicitly express you lack of interest in hearing opposing opinion; just do not ask for any.)
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Again you miss the point. These threads are all for debating how to proceed and for people to help with the mod, they aren't for opposing views TO the actual mod.
And anyone interested implies people who are....not people who aren't.
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So, no, I'm not interested in "FF7 PC Improved English dialogue" because I love Final Fantasy VII.
An open condemnation of the project, stating that it threatens the FF7 that you love. Now, you're trying to defend yourself, claiming that your opinion was called for. No one ever asked for destructive criticism. If you want for us to act like civilized people, your best bet would have been not to cause a disturbance here to start with. I am sorry for being harsh, but that cynical side of me makes me think that you are looking for attention.
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And you posted this, why? You could have easily just ignored everything that was said and just let everyone not know your unimportant opinion.
With all due respect, please note that the thread title reads: "is anyone interested?" which means my opinion as a forum member is being inquired.
This is going to sound harsher than I intend it to, but have you ever been to school and the teacher says to the class "Now, who would like to write the answer to number 10 on the board?" You wouldn't raise your hand to say you don't want to. And you definitely wouldn't start condemning (number 10) it like it is somehow beneath you.
Though I'm sure he would more than welcome any constructive criticism to his project.
Also, I'm curious, is English your first language?
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@Shadowseer: Thanks for your comment, Shadowseer. Your comment is remarkable.
An open condemnation of the project, stating that it threatens the FF7 that you love. Now, you're trying to defend yourself, claiming that your opinion was called for. No one ever asked for destructive criticism.
Is that so?
Times and again I have seen in this very same forum that people criticized Advent Children and Dirge of Cereberus in favor of Final Fantasy VII because they believed these two series as deteriorating FFVII. But I never have seen you around calling them "condemnations" and "destructive criticism". Now why should I not polietly express my opinion regarding an unofficial translation project whereas others are allowed to do so with official contents?
Furthermore, it was not only not a destructive criticism but also a constructive one: Leaving reader of an story in a bit of dark and letting him or her form his or her own conclusions about the unclear points has always been successful device of storywriters. Final Fantasy VII is surely an example of employing this device. How can you consider my advice of not expeling such a successful device a "destructive criticism"?
Please consider assuming good faith in your fellow forum members.
If you want for us to act like civilized people, your best bet would have been not to cause a disturbance here to start with.
Please forgive me my friend, but did I unwittingly break any of the forum's rules? I was under the impression that I was simply expressing an opinion, although one that is contrary to others. If I did, please let me know; I'll apologize and will not commit it again.
I am sorry for being harsh, but that cynical side of me makes me think that you are looking for attention.
Your cynical side is but only slightly wrong. As a matter of fact what I seek is participating in discussions and having positive effects which is the goal of the forums. Your cynical side is not wrong but in respect to the fact that in a forum (especially one like this) gaining attention is not only good but also one of the ultimate goals. If it was not so, you people would have never posted detailed news about the progress of your mod. Neither your cynical side nor your logical one can deny that "Game Tweaking" subforum of this forum is full of topics and threads which serve no purpose but to attract the appreciation of the topic creator -- especially this thread. (Now don't let your cynical side make you believe that I'm trying to steal the attention which I do not deserve here, because I'm not.)
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This is going to sound harsher than I intend it to, but have you ever been to school and the teacher says to the class "Now, who would like to write the answer to number 10 on the board?" You wouldn't raise your hand to say you don't want to. And you definitely wouldn't start condemning (number 10) it like it is somehow beneath you.
Thanks for your considerable comment. Please pay attention to the fact that a school is much different than a forum: In school, your duty is to answer question Number 10 but in a forum, your duty is to contribute. I do differently in school and forum because I have different obligations towards them.
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I'm under the impression that I may have offended you slightly. I am sorry. I wasn't in the best of moods when I posted that.
And I'm not going to challenge your views any further because this thread is going off topic (and a lot of threads have been doing that lately).
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Oh, never mind. Nothing is taken. :)
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I cant find a link for Loveless anywhere. Does anyone have a link for it?
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6013.0
Edit: Here's a good place to go to when you can't find things (it's where I got the Loveless link from):
http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/Technical/Customising
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Thanks Shadowseer ^_^
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I don't really care, but the plot is sometimes missing something.
Cloud sees Sephiroth... WE'RE GOING AFTER SEPHIROTH!!!11
As long as you fix the part where Aeris goes 'That guy are sick.'
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Yes, that is the most infamous line in the whole game.
Reason why Cloud goes after Seph on impulse is because he is being manipulated by Sephiroth through Jenova. That is explained right before Cloud gives Sephiroth the Black Materia.
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Actually, the game reveals plot details only when you want it; which means researching about it.
For example, if you are interested in knowing who is this "this-guy-are-sick" person, return to Midgar after the Meteor is summoned and inquire about him. (When I did, I was so surprised that I thought "Well of course! Why didn't I realize it before?")
As another example, this piece of text comes from Final Fantasy VII in Wikia, about the event of Sephiroth summoning the meteor:The party escapes on Highwind. Tifa is knocked unconcious in the escape, Barret is caught as he tries to escape with the unconscious Tifa, and the both of them are taken to Junon. The rest of AVALANCHE are assumed to have escaped on their own, but how is not detailed.
Actually, this assertion is wrong. The escape IS well-explained in details, but only if you have Tifa inquire about it. There is a repair guy in the Highwind who's busy but is more than eager to tell Tifa the details.
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Wow. You have been paying attention while playing the game. On my next play through, I'll be sure to speak to every person on the field (because I normally don't bother).
Yeah, the game does miss out a few details, but that is in its own way the magic of it. You have the option of either leaving things to your interpretation or just finding out what the plot developers had in mind. I believe you already said that though...
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^ Yeah, I did say that already. I didn't mean to repeat it but it just got conveyed with the examples.
Anyway, another point is that sometimes, there are plot details that are said implicitly if you have a specific party member in your active party but are said explicitly if you have another. For example, remember the first time when you realize that what they have been chasing all along was not the real Sephiroth? Well, it is implicit, unless you have Yuffie in your party, who exclaims "[Blah Blah] We have been following... *this*... all along? [Blah Blah]" (Or something similar.) Still, it is implied but no obscure. You see, there are a lot of people (one in Kalm, one in Costa Del Sol, one in path to North Corel, and Dio in Gold Saucer) who tell you that Sephiroth had a Number One tattooed on his hand.
Conclusion:There are three different aspects of the game plot for which people want (or do not want) this mod:
- Mistranslations and bad grammar that ruins that conveyance of the plot details which are meant to be conveyed.
- Plot details which are placed in the game but only for those who are inquisitive to inquire about them.
- Plot details which are intentionally left obscure, perhaps to induce your imagination or perhaps for use in sequels.
But which of the three aspects it addresses? And how? I don't mind #1 to be addressed. I'm even ready to cooperate. But in case of #2 and #3, ... well you know.
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Ah yes, Yuffie. Always helpful :-) Her precise words are as follows:
"What!? You mean that wasn't Sephiroth? All that time I was following this… thing?"
That's actually not crystal clear. But a more perceptive player might realize that "thing" = Jenova. Sephiroth later mentions that imitating things is "the power of Jenova".
Concerning the first line of your post: I never meant to say that you had repeated yourself. I just find it ironic that I ended up typing something that you had typed, which I moodily condemned a few posts back. Next time I have a bad day, I'm turning off the computer :wink:
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And, by the way, localized version (I mean English version) of Final Fantasy VII for PC are translated a bit differently than that of PS2. Even items, materia, limit breaks and menu items have slightly different names. (Fortunately, none of the are as popular as Aerith. ;))
But I'm curious: Does it contribute to any sort of ambiguity? Or does the general plot maintains uniformity on both platforms?
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I believe that it maintains uniformity on both platforms. I could be wrong though. Never played the PS1 version here (when I found out about the "Touph Ring" mistranslation, I thought it was horrendous).
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Well it's not just "Tough Ring". We have "Ungarmax" ("Angermax"), "Lucretia" ("Lucrecia"), "Bizzaro*Sephiroth" ("Bizarro*Sephiroth"), etc. There are quite a number of others too but I just don't remember.
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I'm also pretty sure Sephiroth has no tattoos on his hand and wears gloves at all times. The guy with the number 1 on his hand would be the first attempted "cloning" of Sephiroth.
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Yes, exactly.