Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: DLPB_ on 2008-10-20 18:25:16
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I don't know if you are aware of this problem. I have fraps and after some weird slow downs occured after roughly the same amount of time I decided to investigate.
What seems to happen is this: Start ff7.exe and load game.
Fraps shows 30 fps in normal prerendered surroundings. Works smooth. Menu opens, jumps to 60 fps. again, totally smooth,
But play the game (or simply leave cloud standing there 15 minutes) and the game play is now more sluggish. The menu fps is now 35-40 and the prerendered surroundings ingame is now around 27
The text is all jerky arriving on screen and frames are definately being dropped. (i have been hearing reports that after a length of time the game crashes....this may be why)
It becomes much more noticible after 30 minutes to the point you can't even enjoy the game (having to press button 4 times to get rid of text on teh screen)
There is a major bug in Xp (that is what i have tested it with) with FF7. FF7 also seems to take up the whole core cpu (if 2 cores selected, still 50% usage)
core 2 6600 pentium
Nvidia 7900 GS
XP Pro SP3
Thanks for any help at all, I have tried every patch and everything I can think of. Why the hell is it slowing down :P
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Things I have tried:
-options in Nvidia control panel....tons of options
- different patches, including 1.02
Nothing seems to work....after an amount of time, frame rate just hits a point where it is nothing like it was at the start and then if I close FF7.exe and restart...hey presto, back to smooth again. It is driving me loopy!
I am going to double check that I selected 1 core again, to make sure but I am think I checked that too....
I do have the updated mods (maybe this is a reason?): character models are all the advanced ones and yes I do own the game.
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Try the Cyrix patch.
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http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=5158.0
This person may have had same problem
Additional:
mine is not a laptop and I have copied discs to image files. The cd's aren't used at all, not even when movies playing.
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Try the Cyrix patch.
cyrix patch? You have alink or is google ok for it?
I found this>
http://support.eidosinteractive.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=143&nav=0,255,196
?
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Looks good.
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Thankyou.
Something is definately different....however, this may still be because I am now in software render mode (can't seem to apply patch to anything but the original ff7.exe)
I will test the original files with software renderer too and then cyrix.
btw, why does it patch ff7config.exe
Out of interest, how would I go about adding an update to this cyrix ff7.exe? (all the patches I have got like riva and 1.02 are prebuild exe's). If anyone has a ff7.exe with the cyrix patch already added along with other updates please feel free to upload to me)
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It was only to cofirm that it's the problem with your CPU. Disable the Speedstep on it (like -> set the performance to high or something like that), and you should be fine, even without the Cyrix patch.
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disable the speedstep?
and by performance how do you mean set to high? You mean process priority or is there an option i don't know about?
btw you are being a great help :)
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Well, you do have a software which can change your notebook performace, right? Like, tune down the screen brightness, switch the CPU to power saving. And what you need to do, is to disable the CPU power saving - and it's usually accomplished with setting the overall notebook performance to high - you just have to figure out how to do it :)
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i have a pc not a laptop, so power settings are always set to on and highest power.
But since this worked with the patch, it is either the cpu patch worked or that software render mode doesn't have this symptom. I will do some tests.
In meantime, if anyone has the riva patch updated with the cyrix, let me know (in other words I need hardware renderer mode WITH the cyrix patch)
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Desktop CPU's now also have clock down options. Some motherboards too.
In xp, the performance settings are under control panel -> power options. select max performance.
If the issue is indeed speedstep as has been suggested, this should disable it.
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Ah, right... I somehow confused your setup with the one from the thread you linked to. Anyway, make sure that it's performance is set to "Always on" (not on WinXP right now, but it should be something like "Right click on desktop" -> "Properties" -> "Screensaver" -> "Power settings" -> "Always on"), and you should be all fine. You can disable speedstep in BIOS I believe, but that shouldn't be needed.
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I don't see speedstep in bios and all my configs are as above :)
:)
I think this is definately an issue with the game itself :)
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I have confirmed that no matter the patch or version, this happens only when using hardware mode. I use TNT nvidia option because the riva 128 makes garbage happen.
The bug does not happen in software rendered mode
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It is the issue with how the game is written and your CPU changing it's speed (for whatever reason). Speedstep in BIOS should be something like EIST, just read your motherboard manual.
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well atleast i now know the problem, I will look into this speedstep. Learn something new everyday :P
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Well it was worth a shot....
but speedstep is now off and still, same old. Does the same thing.
I am willing to bet that cpu patch sorts the problem though, if somehow you can get that incorporated into the riva patch for me?
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It's set to "Always on", Speedstep is off and it still slows down? Does it slow down when using hardware mode and FF7 with cyrix patch? I know that it won't let you choose the hardware mode by default, but you can use the config program from 1.02 and set it to hardware mode (just hardware - no nVidia fix) - background will look garbled at best, but you could check if the patch helps :P
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good idea.
I will test that :)
1 thing. It doesn't let me choose hardware unless nvidia option is ticked
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Then, I guess, nVidia it is. It's all written into registry, but I can't check which one is hardware mode.
Edit: It's all quite strange I must admit. I wonder if the Cyrix patch worked before because it changed how frame limiters worked, or because it forced FF7 into software mode...
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well I tested now without cyrix patch and render in software has no slow downs at all. Just in hardware., Either that or the slow down takes much longer to happen in software mode...
I will be testing this.... and I will look into the registry
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confirmed. cyrix patch is useless in sorting problem. i played game in hardware nvidia mode with cyrix ff7.exe...
no change.
same thing. now need a way of hardware none nvidia
edit:
additional. I looked into the behaviour and this is what else: I leave menu open, in the settings area. fraps shows 60 fps. After 1 min, it suddenly PLUMMETS
Something seems to occur after ONE minute. As soon as it hits around 1 minutem the slide starts, dropping roughly 1 frame every 2 seconds. Bare in mind that this drop is more evident at first in the config area of ff7. Not the main menu or the ingame.
These follow afterwards
regardless, when the settings page hits around 30-40 fps, even the ingame scenes start to stutter so that after 5 minutes it is noticable and after 20 the game is a joke. (ingame drops from 30 fps down to 20 in short times also)
I am willing to bet that after more time, the game will simply crash or be unplayable. I will test this
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definate pattern to the slide in frame rate.
Here is observation:
After 1 minute fraps detects that the config area screen has dropped from 60 to 59. This then continues to drop ata fast speed. It is actually slowing down, so by the time it reaches 13 fps (after about 10-15 mins) it is losing 1 fps every 2 minutes.
At same time, different screens show different fps. At the time the CONFIG area screen is showing 13 fps (as opposed to 60), the menu screen is showing 25 (as opposed to 60) and the main ingame is running at 24 (as opposed to 30)
The slide continues but at a slower rate as it approaches lower values. When the ingame screen is around 25-28, the gameplay suffers a lot/. Skips are evident, menus opening adn closing are slow, text is jerky arriving on screen (i will upload a file soon to demonstrate)
Now testing what happens after a prolonged period of time.
edit: in a BIZARRE twist....at the moment, even when I reload ff7 after exiting (and making sure the process isnt running) it carries on from where it left off. That is, the frame rates are all crap and at exact same point they were when I left the game. HOW is this possible? Again software mode shows no ill effects at all and runs 100%
I can't be the only one experiencing this, so whoever has the time, get fraps, load up FF7 in hardware mode and go to the CONFIG screen inside the game. stay there and after a min or so, you will see the fps drop from 60. Within 15 minutes you should notice gameplay changes.
I definately need to know if I am an isolated case
-I suppose the BIG question is....why is it only happening in hardware mode...?
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Well, you got my attention, so I'll definitely be testing this as soon as I grab a PC with FF7 installed (~Friday). It kind of makes sense now - why would CPU slow down if it's getting used up at 100%? Slowdown could be caused by those lost megahertz, but you've already proven that it's not the case here.
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remember that you see it much faster after around 1 minute whilst in the config screen of FF7. The other screens also decrease but this takes time to be noticed. After 15 minutes you should see massive loss of frame rate in any screen (except battle screen which is 15 fps to begin with and would probably take much lomger to be noticed)
sliding the "battle speed" option side to side you will see it get affected with the change in frame rate until it is unable to slide anywhere near as fast as it did. Around this time you shiuld notice that the game is stuttering even in normal gameplay.
That is....if this bug is universal
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ftp://606:[email protected]/ff7-speed-issue.mpg
If asks for pass and user it is as above: 606 and seifer
format is in mpeg1 for compatibility, all the ill effects you see there are what I see and are not a result of bad encoding.
In this example, cloud is actually moving at half the frame rate (which makes skipping appear to not happen. When the frame rate is say 27 instead of 30, the skipping is worse. The frame rate above in the normal gameplay is 15, and thus, the character appears not to skip (but is still noticibly not smooth at only half the intended frame rate)
You will notice
- text arrives on screen choppy
- cloud is moving at half intended frame rate
-menu is opening and closing slower
-menu cursor is disasterously slow, emphasising the frame rate has dropped in menu from 60 to 12
The menu must use frame based movement, whereas the ingame uses tiem based. This would explain why the cursor moves slow at slower frame rates, but cloud simply runs at same speed with frame skipping.
Then again, this isn't generally how games are made, so it is a bit of a mystery. In any case, the frames don't seem to stop being dropped and I estimate that after 1 hour, the ingame frame rate would be 5 fps or less
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game eventually crashes after around 30 minutes, with error:
ERROR: 88760028 Support is currently not available. in file c:\lib\src\graphics\directx.cpp LINE 740
as well as another in file file c:\lib\src\graphics\dx_rendi.cpp LINE 2295 < these errors happened in window mode. But crash happens in normal full screen after around 30 anyway.
Yup, game now refuses to play at all when I reload (hardware mode). It just plays for 10 seconds then freezes.
So there you have it, in hardware mode after 30 minutes the frame rate drops so low that the game crashes.
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Did you try installing the newest drivers for your hardware and then experimenting with your GPU drivers? It's a long shot, but I remember that people were suggesting using the beta drivers from nVidia for black characters problem.
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I have updated to latest nvidia and messed with all the settings I can think of. But there is no chance I am gonna go back to old drivers because that would break other games.
There is another cpu option technology in my bios that I will look into, but the 2 theories I have for this are now:
1. The cpu is gaining more and more to do with every passing second which is affecting the frame rate as it cannot keep up . Bug in game or with the new addons (like NPC addon)
2. The game is calculating the frame rate wrong and it is slowly going off with each passing second.
and then there is the possibility that:
Everybody has this bug but has not noticed that this is the problem or that a significant amount of people haven't noticed until the crash that something is wrong.
That is why I need some people here to test this with fraps :)
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Does your game do this when you're not using Fraps?
I thought FF7 had always had framerate problems while using Fraps. I don't think its very likely that this problem is affecting everyone, more people would have noticed. How would I test mine? Tell me what to do and I'll do it to see if this bug affects my game too.
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yes, it does it without fraps. Fraps simply shows me what is going on.
Download fraps It is free to test and you won't need to record. Just have it in your task bar., When you open the game the frame rate will be displayed in the corner.
http://www.fraps.com/
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now, with ff7 open, go to the CONFIG screen and wait a few minutes. You should see the frame rate drop from 60 and steadily drop. Remember that the drop happens here faster than elsehwhere but all screens will be affected with time.
Remember you must be in hardware mode.
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normal frame rates:
battle: 15
Movie: 15
normal walking about screen: 15-30 (usually 30)
menu: 60
Config menu: 60
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OK, I'll test it in about an hour and a half (have to go to my next door neighbour's for something) and I'l post results shortly after.
When should I start noticing a drop in frame-rates?
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the first sign of trouble occurs on mine after around 1-2 minutes, it then slides at a rapid rate and will be at 45 within minutes.
The drop becomes much worse at 15-30 minutes.
So the drop starts after around 1-2 minutes, but you notice it first in the config screen
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Got started a little earlier than I thought ^_^
OK, spent about 40 minutes on this, and here are the results.
NO FRAPS RUNNING
In the config menu....
0 Min - Normal
1 Min - Normal
2 Min - Normal
3 Min - Normal
4 Min - Normal
At this point I exited the menu and ran around for a bit. No slowdowns.
5 Min - Normal
Then went back into config menu.
6 Min - Normal
7 Min - Normal
all the way upto 18 Min - No change at all.
WITH FRAPS RUNNING
Eidos Logo - 15 FPS
Squaresoft Logo - 15 FPS
World Map - 30 FPS
Config Menu:-
0 Min - 59
1 Min - 59
2 Min - 59
3 Min - 59
4 Min - 59
Ran around for a bit again ^_^ No Slowdowns, Back to config.
5 Min - 59
6 Min - 59
Ran Around Some more, entered a few towns, Back to config.
7 Min - 59
8 Min - 59
Upto 21 Minutes - Absolutely no change in frame rate.
I was in Hardware mode.
The Patches I use are - NPC Recon, YAMP, FF7Music. I've also edited Kernel.bin and Kernel2.bin to my liking. I DONT have the SaINt's High-Res patch.
It could be (off the top of my head) the SaINt's High-Res patch (if you use it) or more likely an issue with your graphics card or graphics software. If its only happening in hardware mode for you this is probably the case.
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Cheers. Thanks A LOT. so basically it is definately my end only :)
Well what is your cpu and features? And what graphic card do you have
I have now disabled all features except cpu thermal management but I can't see this being the issue. I don't have saints patch, and anyway all of the patches seem to do the same thing. Please upload the ff7.exe and config.exe you are using to my server
(IE will allow uploads by drag and drop)
Go to ftp://606:[email protected]
Kernel.bin and Kernel2.bin and those please and why have you edited them?
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another thing, i can't choose to have hadrware mode without clicking nvidia box??
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My EXE & Config are uploading as we speak. I also created a folder to put them in but was unable to rename it! ^_^
I've also just tested it again on Vista, same results as before.
CPU - Intel Pentium D Dual Core
Motherboard - Foxconn P4M800P7MA
Operating System - XP SP3, Vista Ultimate
RAM - 2Gig DDR2-PC2 6400 (2x1GB)
Graphics - ATI Radeon 9600 (This old bird has served me well! I desperately need a new one ^_^)
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haha don't go for a 7900 GS nvidia then....that is my advice lmao
I have tested your files. Same old. Maybe a reinstall ff7 would help and then i could test if its 1 of the addons doing it
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Well this isn't looking good. I have tried reducing hardware accelerations, I have taken away CPU features, I have reverted to no mods, full mods every mod
Same old scenario. Where is qhimm :) or someone who understands the code of FF7
I feel that is my only hope. Surely FF7 doesn't get its timing instructions by the graphic card or directx?
I mean surely it uses timegettime or some other method
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I realise you've already stated that you're absolutely not going to backdate your drivers, but maybe you should try uninstalling them just to see if it works?
Just uninstall, test FF7 and no matter what the outcome, reinstall your drivers. That way you'll know if thats what the problem is.
It has nothing to do with the code of FF7.
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If I uninstall my vid drivers, will hardware acceleration still work?
If it won't, the game won't run :) I don't think it is likely to run without the drivers installed...
But what would I use as a substitute? What other graphics drivers will work with the 7 series nvidia card
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PROBLEM SOLVED
As requested a few times that I go back to older drivers, I researched the best one for the 7900 GS
the 92.91_forceware drivers have NO issue with FF7 and work fine with the game.
Therefore since that revision, an unwanted element has been introduced. I have no idea what, if anyone has any ideas so I can go back to the new 178.24 drivers I would be happy.,
But maybe I was a little too skeptic to try the old "try different drivers" approach. It almost never works in my experience but this time:
IT HAS.
Please make note of this problem, that nvidia cards using the latest drivers may have a severe problem with FF7. can I thank the people (2?) that helped me with this and went to the trouble of looking into it :)