Qhimm.com Forums
Project forums => Team Avalanche => Topic started by: halkun on 2010-04-21 02:27:04
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OK, Here you guys go, I've done a set of high-res Sketchup tutorials on Youtube to teach how to re-make FF7's backgrounds using Photomatch
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Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htMLsvuT_cY)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PXiXJxUd0)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1GdPo20MSw)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enXx-5c2cVA)
If you have any questions, let me know :)
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Good idea!
Hopefully this will get more people into the project. Me myself i manually align the camera in maya since i couldnt figure sketchup out.
Now do you need the pro version to export scenes?
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Now do you need the pro version to export scenes?
Not really, Sketchup exports to COLLADA (*.dae) which can be imported into Blender. From there you can export to whatever you want.
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Excellent. Now for all you people using the excuse that you dont know how to do this type of thing, get workin! :P
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So what scene should i put you down for halkun?
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Sorry, I'll pass :P I'm already knee deep in projects.
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Awww boo. If you are ever free look us up ;D
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Nice tutorials so far. Thanks halkun. It has explained alot about sketchup to me. ^.^. However, I think i will take a look at those tutorials you mentioned at the beginning of the video before i tackle any FF7 scenes... Thanks. :D.
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There, after 4 hours, they are all up!
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part 4 still processing lol :P
But seriously, this is awesome. I may have to start (attempting at) making backgrounds myself with this.
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I just re-checked out your FF7 3D Test videos again. How it moves from the train to the next scene is still amazing. I really wish I had the time and resources to help with all of this
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Those are fantastic. They make it look acheivable by anyone too.
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Hi guys, been following the forum for a long time and after being inspired by these tutorials (and the fact that I have a LOT of free time...) I really want to get involved and help as much as I can. I've got no experience with modelling, texturing or anything like that so I'm a complete noob but I'm a pretty fast learner and a bit of a perfectionist so don't expect too much but I might be able to help eventually!!
Thanks again for the tutorials!
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Hi guys, been following the forum for a long time and after being inspired by these tutorials (and the fact that I have a LOT of free time...) I really want to get involved and help as much as I can. I've got no experience with modelling, texturing or anything like that so I'm a complete noob but I'm a pretty fast learner and a bit of a perfectionist so don't expect too much but I might be able to help eventually!!
Thanks again for the tutorials!
Great! well, study those tutorials, and start up a scene, we'll help you with criticism and suggestions as you go, and be sure to post progress!
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Will do! Any suggestions on a decent starting scene, maybe something not too complicated?
I've got a busy weekend so I'll probably get started next week. I only work a couple of hours a night so I've got plenty of time to practice. Looking forward to getting stuck in now!
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Try anything you want really. Find a scene that inspires you and give it a shot. I knew nothing of modelling when i started a month or so ago.
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Quick question (sorry if I'm hi-jacking this thread but it may help others that want to start getting involved)
I've extracted the field files and opened one up in Palmer (nmkin_4) but when exporting it to a PNG it's split into 7 different files. Is there a way to export as a single merged file, or if not what's the best way to handle this? Sorry if its a silly question but I really am starting from scratch here lol
EDIT: while I'm at it can I claim that background for the bombing mission project?
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Not really. What i did was use photoshop to merge all the files together into one. One thing to not is that if the scene uses animations to not merge those into the image.
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Thanks. I'll post some WIP shots tomorrow so you can see if I'm on the right track!
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In my first video I show where you can get some youtube tutorials for Sketchup. It takes about two days to do them.
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After a playing around for a couple hours I'm under way, but it's 3.20 AM and I need sleep lol. Here's what Ive got just to start with
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%201.jpg)
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%202.jpg)
Like I said this is the first time I've ever done anything like this so there's still a lot for me to learn. I had a quick look at the first couple of tutorials you mentioned Halkun, I'll go through them properly tomorrow or next week.
Also - sl, did you make your train scene in SketchUp?
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That looks good for a first attempt to me djkoopa. I might have to try some of this myself on Sunday ^_^
I'm interested to know how these are going to be implemented in-game? Is the camera data going to be edited so that it follows Cloud?
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No i manually aligned my scenes in maya and built the scene from scratch. And no the camera will still be fixed, these rebuilt 3d scenes are only so we can re-render to replace the originals.
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Not bad!
Little things to help you out...
1) You need to move your origin to a more central spot so you can draw off the vertexes.
2) The far right wall has a line in it, if you erase that line and the whole wall disappears, that means the wall edges are not parallel with each other.
3) Something in general, when you do your initial alignment you are supped to run the red and green handles along the walls, It helps align, just make sure green and red are perpendicular.
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Great start djkoopa! Keep in mind, the strength of sketchup is primitive shapes. Although you can model more elaborate things, those jobs are best left to full 3d suites. Make sure to encompass all the basic shapes (tubes, square/rectangular shapes) so that there is minimal work to be done afterwards when adding detailz. For those pipes, maya has some great tools for making the curve, so unless thers some magic in sketchup to bridge that, just do the straight portions, and stop them like you have, right before there is any curve.
Glad to see you starting up, and I look forward to your progress!
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Another tip:
you can load more than one picture and calibrate your current 3d model to it. This means you can take all three pictures of the reactor inside and photomatch a few times to get the details missed by only one.
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Been modeling with zbrush for a few weeks, which I guess I'll use for detailing, and I've been intending to help out when I can for a while now, but this post actually got me started using google sketchup. Not that I intend to seriously submit anything for some months, certainly not for the bombing mission project, but hopefully you guys won't be finished every inorganic field background by the time I feel halfway confident in my competence.
1 hour of tutorials + 1:30 or so of actual work =
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practice%202.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practice%202a.jpg)
Yes, I know I created the wall offset from the bridge for some reason, and consequently it's out of perspective with the original background, as well as causing the pipes (and anything else I attempted to create protruding from it) to be mis-angled. And ignoring that, even just my bridge part isn't as good as djkoopa's, which is why I intend to practice for at least 3 months before I make a serious attempt at even a simplistic industrial background. I'm a bitterly slow learner at anything the least bit artistic, but also a perfectionist, a "never plateau" kind of guy, and a "work until 7 AM Friday night, only noticing that it isn't still 2 once the sun comes up" kind of guy, so I can make it work, I guess.
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Not bad!
Little things to help you out...
1) You need to move your origin to a more central spot so you can draw off the vertexes.
2) The far right wall has a line in it, if you erase that line and the whole wall disappears, that means the wall edges are not parallel with each other.
3) Something in general, when you do your initial alignment you are supped to run the red and green handles along the walls, It helps align, just make sure green and red are perpendicular.
1) moved the origin to the bridge/door now to make it more central (didn't realize it'd move my whole model haha never mind)
2) so thats what the problem was!! I've tried re-doing the lines but I cant get it to fill in the surface. Is there a way to make the line draw parallel?
3) when I did the alignment I ran the green lines along the bridge and the red lines across the back wall. Looked ok to me but as you're mentioning it I'm guessing I must have got it a bit off?
One more thing - how much detail do I need to go into here? Obviously more is better, but take the walkway side rails for example. I can cut the holes out so it looks more like a fence rather than a flat wall, but do i leave that flat or expand it to make it more of a box (like ScottMcTony has done)?
Thanks for the feedback guys
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Nice stuff scottmctony, Glad to have you onboard. Firslty, If you'd rather spend some time learning your tools fine, but imo, the best way to learn is by getting right into a project you're enthusiastic about.
Another suggestion, don't work on a scene that someone else has started. If you're unsure, or can't be arsed to check through the forum, ask SL or myself.
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Timu, is there any chance you can mark me down for nmkin_4 on the bombing mission page if ScottMcTony doesn't want to submit anything yet? Just to save anymore duplicates. After Halkuns feedback on ym stuff from last night I decided to start again and its going well so far
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%203.jpg)
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Done, and done. I also marked you for nmkin_3, as its the same scene from another angle.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/i/nmkin3.png/)
You should lign it up and use it as well.
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Trying to add nmkin_3 but I'm having trouble lining it up what I've already got... not 100% sure how to go about it. Seems to be too small, as if its too far away or too low on the x-axis
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Nice stuff scottmctony, Glad to have you onboard. Firslty, If you'd rather spend some time learning your tools fine, but imo, the best way to learn is by getting right into a project you're enthusiastic about.
Another suggestion, don't work on a scene that someone else has started. If you're unsure, or can't be arsed to check through the forum, ask SL or myself.
Well, there's a reason the files were named practice1 and practice 2, mind. If I come back in 3 months and nobody's claimed Shinra HQ I might try to do that (unless someone already has?). About learning by doing, I'm more worried about my zbrush skills. I'd show you some awful thing I've already done in that, but it is shameful and there are more than close friends here. If I were to try something usable now, there would be months of remodeling that before I was satisfied, and the only difference that would make would be how incredibly sick I'd be of a single field.
djkoopa, for your second day doing any kind of modeling, I am amazed.
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Thanks scottmctony, appreciate it. I said I'm a fast learner lol ;) Good luck with your practicing, looking forward to seeing more of your work soon!
I've got all the shapes down for nmkin_4 now, just the details to fill in and those pesky pipes!!
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%204.jpg)
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%204b.jpg)
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Looking good! You are almost to the point where you need to switch to a full fledged 3d app
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What would that involve sl? Takin this model and touching it up? I haven't even gone through the sketchup tutorials yet so im sure I could improve it in that still
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It would be for adding smaller details, texturing it, doing the lighting etc then rendering it for use in game.
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Ahh ok. Was kinda hopin someone with more experiance would be able to texture it for me but I spose I could have a crack at it!
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Dont look at me. I tried texturing and im no good at it.
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I thought I posted this reply earlier o.O maybe not.
Anyway, This kind of 3D work is different to the kind of stuff created for realtime rendered 3D, such as the many battle models we've been making recently.
There are two big differences between the two kinds. Firstly, there's no real limit on poly count when you pre-render - as long as we can render these scenes once in a realistic time period, you can have as much detail in the models as you like.
Secondly, and most importantly, the battle system in FF7 doesn't use any lighting system whatsoever; it relies on vertex colours or textures to get shadows and highlights onto models, hence why texture artists like Millenia paint them on manually. Since that restriction doesn't reply to pre-rendered images, With enough detail in your models and some clever rendering techniques, you could get away with giving objects a completely flat colour for their diffuse map, and just use different lighting systems to get the correct lighting in there. In modelling scenes like this, you can also use techniques like tiling textures and bump maps to get a nice feel as well.
So, basically, texture work is a lot different when working with scenes than it is with battle character models. You have a lot more options, and as long as you can learn to use a 3D app well enough, you don't need to know a thing about texturing to be able to texture scenes.
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Hello everyone!
Is there a basic tutorial google sketchup on the positioning of the axes? I'm trying to learn but have no notion of 3D modeling ... Thanks!
Translated by Google :-D
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Hello everyone!
Is there a basic tutorial google sketchup on the positioning of the axes? I'm trying to learn but have no notion of 3D modeling ... Thanks!
Translated by Google :-D
Watch Halkun's videos in the first post of this thread. I literally had no idea about modelling or sketchup before watching them yesterday and they really helped a lot
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I noticed some of the field backgrounds don't have especially logical perspective. From the bombing mission, the three-way catwalk is the most egregious. With the X and Z axis aligned to either wall, the Y axis will be slightly misaligned to that very wall, and whether the the X and Z axis are aligned to the catwalk or either wall, you'll find the other two major surfaces out of alignment, and if you try aligning one red line to one wall, and the other to the other wall, you'll still find the catwalk and the other edges of the walls off, and so on in every manner I tried. This makes it very difficult to model, and as pushing oneself is the fastest way to learn, I of course jumped right into it. I have spent spent hours working feverishly and uselessly, to come up with this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceA.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceB.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceC.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceD.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceF.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceE.jpg
There are inaccuracies that are entirely my fault to the point that this couldn't really be made into anything usable, but you can see where quirks are "the game's fault". Still, after what I have learned attempting this, I feel I could make any simpler (and more sensible) background my b*tch, as well as any badger.
I posted this here not only because it seems to have become an odd, temporary newb thread, but also because it seems right for talk about perspective.
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I think your problem is that you assume the side walls are parallel with each other. The catwalk is between to of the "pizza slices" of Midgar which means the area is wider towards the reactor and narrower towards the camera.
Do you know how to snap to a plane/axis yet? It will keep the doors from coming crooked.
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Midgar's exterior, as a whole, is quite weird. I learned this while experimenting with different field backgrounds. Basically, the problem is that it's not completely square, so it's hard to get anything to properly line up. That particular scene is actually between two plates, and because of this, the two side walls can't be completely parallel. Take a look at this. (http://content.screencast.com/users/NeoCS/folders/Jing/media/5b16554e-880d-4c11-a338-d779f46ec440/MIDGAR.png) I'm not the best at using paint to explain things, but you should get the idea. I think it would be best to get the entire shell of midgar done first before attempting scenes like that
EDIT: D: beat by halkun xD
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Actually I stand corrected. I have an alignment that puts everything square. I even popped in a 3d guy for good measure. Here is a picture of my aliagnment points. The thing is. The camera has a very wide field if view, so The vanishing point is almost visable. I'll draw up some plys on this a little later.
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6756/align.th.png) (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/align.png/)
Look at how I have the alignment handles lined up. Also notice how the dashed lines cross. It is a high-ass wide-ass angle, but it's doable.
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...Wow, Guess you're right, It works ok even when you assume it's square. What happens if you drag the green ones to something we know 100% is gonna be square? (i.e the vertical-y part of the bridge)
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Here you go, about an hours worth of work :)
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8538/cap1v.th.png) (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/cap1v.png/)(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4018/cap2q.th.png) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/cap2q.png/)(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2835/cap3.th.png) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/cap3.png/)(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/558/cap4s.th.png) (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/cap4s.png/)(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3082/cap5.th.png) (http://img693.imageshack.us/i/cap5.png/)
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...Wow, Guess you're right, It works ok even when you assume it's square. What happens if you drag the green ones to something we know 100% is gonna be square? (i.e the vertical-y part of the bridge)
The scene is actually square as seen by my pictures above. You just have to get the perspective right.
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So what you're saying is, It's a continuity error on square's part that they thought we wouldn't ever notice?
Well, We have now!
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Hello everyone!
Is there a basic tutorial google sketchup on the positioning of the axes? I'm trying to learn but have no notion of 3D modeling ... Thanks!
Translated by Google :-D
Watch Halkun's videos in the first post of this thread. I literally had no idea about modelling or sketchup before watching them yesterday and they really helped a lot
Actually I've watched the tutorials, but the positioning of the axes that is related background. I'm trying to stage the gold saucer but to position the camera is very hard for me. In other backgrounds with more or less the same position of the video I can do.
Again translated by google!1
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Hopefully Halkun can help you out more with that one then. I'm still not too sure about using 2 photo matched backgrounds, having trouble lining them up with each other and the model. Any help/tips anyone could give?
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...Wow, Guess you're right, It works ok even when you assume it's square. What happens if you drag the green ones to something we know 100% is gonna be square? (i.e the vertical-y part of the bridge)
The scene is actually square as seen by my pictures above. You just have to get the perspective right.
While possibly the most embarrassing way I've ever turned out sort of correct, I noticed the walls still don't line up perfectly like that (you can see a bit of the reactor's face painted onto the wall, as well as a sliver of distant ground). I guess that's getting a bit further from my assertion that it's "illogical", although still a bit quirky if someone wants to go for total accuracy. I made it way harder than it had to be by not having the the base and top edge of either wall parallel to each other though.
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The backgrounds do not need to be perfectly aligned in my opinion. Very close is good enough. Nobody is going to notice when they are in game that the original was off by 1 degree. As long as the walkmeshes still work properly we should be fine.