Qhimm.com Forums
Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: titeguy3 on 2010-04-28 01:16:58
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A bill has passed in Arizona requiring residents to carry legal documentation of their citizenship around with them at all times, while at the same time making it legal for police to detain and question anyone "suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant. It also gives Arizonans the power to enforce legal action against the Police Dept in the event that it appears that the law isn't being sufficiently enforced.
In other words, racist grandma across the street can call the cops on you, and they are legally obligated to show up and ask you for your papers.
Supposedly, around 70% of voting Arizonans support this law, while it would seem that around 70% of all non-arizonans detest it. It's being said that:
"Cries of "boycott Arizona" have echoed across the Internet and at demonstrations through the weekend. Rep. Luis Gutiérrez, D-Ill., is urging people to cancel vacations in Arizona. Some truckers are vowing to bypass the state. The Nation's sports editor, Dave Zirin, is even boycotting the Arizona Diamondbacks because of the law, which he said "has brought echoes of apartheid to the state." Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon said "several convention groups (he didn't want to name them) have contacted him to say they were considering taking their business elsewhere." Time reported. Gordon also expressed concern that Hispanics, legal and illegal, might leave the city."
I've actually got a close friend who goes to college in Arizona. He's probably in jail by now, though. :-P
Pick your bias:
AOL News (http://www.aolnews.com/search/?query=Arizona+Immigration)
ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/search?searchtext=arizona%20immigration)
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=Arizona%20Immigration&primaryType=mixed&sortBy=date&intl=false)
MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?id=11881780&q=Arizona%20Immigration&p=1&st=1&sm=user)
Or your extreme bias:
Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=Arizona+Immigration)
The Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/27/stewart-hammers-arizona-f_n_553157.html)
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I heard about this in school today. I'm all for it. Big deal if America's work force is 50 percent illegal, I want those fuckers outta here. No, I'm not racist. I live in an area with a large population of Hispanics, and from what I see constantly, I don't want slack offs in my country. Not saying that whites don't do the same thing. I want people using drugs on welfare to be booted out too. Sorry. Long day and apparently had to get that out of my system. I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings or anything ha. But hey, if you wanna be here that badly, just be legal.
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I heard about this in school today. I'm all for it. Big deal if America's work force is 50 percent illegal, I want those f***ers outta here. No, I'm not racist. I live in an area with a large population of Hispanics, and from what I see constantly, I don't want slack offs in my country. Not saying that whites don't do the same thing. I want people using drugs on welfare to be booted out too. Sorry. Long day and apparently had to get that out of my system. I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings or anything ha. But hey, if you wanna be here that badly, just be legal.
Well said, whitey! ;)
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I think the general idea is a good one. We need to get all illegals out of here. Whether or not the way they are going about this is good... I don't know. I don't live in Arizona, so I don't know how bad it is there nor what it's like dealing with an overwhelming amount of illegals.
But something does need to be done, and since the government couldn't give two shits about actually securing the border, I say good on Arizona for at least doing something.
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I wonder if they've ever seen Born In East LA.
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In an ideal world everyone would respect other peoples cultures, everyone would integrate, resources would be plentiful.
This is the real world, and illegal immigration or indeed mass immigration is harmful.
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I see both sides of this issue and I'm torn between it.
On the one hand, I hate that Arizona is doing this. This is not that different, nor is it an illogical first step toward, racial discrimination on the order of the Nazis. However, the state has the right to pass this law. No one else is required to pass one themselves to stay a part of the nation and the US can't just drop Arizona because they've got an unpopular state regulation. While I don't agree with all of Obama's decisions (nor am I privy to all the intel that he is), I'm with him that this is not the way we should be dealing with the situation.
On the other hand, I'm also with guitar_dudester. I'm not by any means a supremacist. I plan to move to Japan for a while to, among other things, learn what it's like to be a minority. But most of the illegal immigrants are making our nation run aground economically. They occupy a lot of menial labor that many of the poor, legitimate citizens could be doing. They don't pay income taxes on these less-than-poverty wages because they don't have a SSN. It's actually a federal law that companies can't turn down a potential hire because their SSN comes back as invalid (clear sign that they weren't born in the US).
I think out-sourcing is just as bad and companies should keep jobs in the states, but that's more expensive. :P Man, sometimes I just HATE being in a capitalist country! I'd rather be socialist! Or Japanese. They're kind of a hybrid. What I would think is the ideal of capitalism. No one is exuberantly wealthy like some of the mega-millionaires/billionaires in the US. You work to benefit the company rather than yourself.
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Here's my view on it. Since PoPo's can look up our drivers license and should be able to look up our social security then those of us that are legal should have no worry of police knocking at our door every night. So just start the deal where people get charged for emergency calling, that way if it is a witchhunt situation hopefully the person gets enough of a slap on the wrist with a bill to make them think twice about harassing emergency services over their racial issues again. That way people that do call are sure they are doing the right thing. I'm willing to foot a $50 emergency services call bill to get a stupid gangsta wannabe illegal out of the country.
But I do think they should expand border patrol. Would open up a lot of jobs for those of us in security.
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1) I live right next to NYC, I know a large amount of illegals, some of them even being close friends
2) The argument of "the illegals are taking our jobs" is a faulty argument. They take the jobs that everybody else refuses to do.
3) I can, however, see where a lot of illegal immigration becomes a problem. It's usually more of a social thing, than an economic thing, and right now, in my corner of the world, is a great example.
4) As far as the "if you want to be here so badly, just come here legally" argument goes. Anybody who seriously believes in that argument is a fucking retard. 9 times out of 10, the reason they resort to coming here illegally is because the waiting list is so goddamn long. My friend's family applied for visas from Ecuador a few years ago. 20 year wait... They wanted to come here so they could get cancer treatment for their 6 year old daughter. Unfortunately, they didn't have that time to wait, nor the money to get smuggled into the USA, and said 6 year old daughter, didn't see her 7th birthday. That's just one of the situations people I know have been in. That argument just doesn't hold up. Many others do, I've only really outlined the 2 arguments I really have a problem with, because they just don't hold up
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They take jobs that "people refuse to do" because the system is faulty, you don't fix a fault by introducing a new one. If the system worked properly people wouldn't have the luxury of always sitting around doing nothing. There are millions unemployed in my country doing nothing and if the system worked they would be out doing the jobs whether they liked it or not.
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They take jobs that "people refuse to do" because the system is faulty, you don't fix a fault by introducing a new one. If the system worked properly people wouldn't have the luxury of always sitting around doing nothing. There are millions unemployed in my country doing nothing and if the system worked they would be out doing the jobs whether they liked it or not.
Hey, I agree. The way the Welfare system works (or rather, is SUPPOSED) to work, over here, is pretty damn good. However, there's a shitload of useless assholes who find ways to scam it.
The way it's supposed to work is like this: you get a welfare check, every other week, for a year and a half. The amount this check is worth depends on where you live, size of your family, annual income, etc. etc. After this year and a half, you get taken off it for anywhere from 6 months, to a year and a half. Once this period of time is over, you are either deemed to no longer need Welfare, or you get put back on for another year and a half. After the second year and a half of receiving a check, you are cut off for good.
The problem here, is you have people scamming the system. For example, let's say we all live in the same house, with the names we all have now. I'll go ahead and register for Welfare, and get approved, and we all get it for a year and a half. As soon as I get taken off, Seifer will go and register for it under his name, and get approved, and we keep going around in circles until we're back at square one.
This is where the true fault of the system comes into play. Simply because some people in this country, will not help themselves (and this is the only reason why you see bums on the street, in today's day and age, the only way to get in that situation, is to desire to be in that situation), after such an amount of time (I'm not sure of the span of time) the records get destroyed, which allows the system to be abused. Now, from what I've read, the records are not supposed to be destroyed, but, it does happen pretty fucking often.
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I disagree with you completely, Cupcake.
1) I live right next to NYC, I know a large amount of illegals, some of them even being close friends
Doesn't change anything. They're not allowed. If I'm friends with a known child molester should I accept them all and say none of them are wrong for doing what they're doing?
2) The argument of "the illegals are taking our jobs" is a faulty argument. They take the jobs that everybody else refuses to do.
They didn't refuse them because they needed money. The poverty stricken in this country need money too. THEY don't take it because this country is idiotic enough to convince them that they deserve better. That's money out of the hands of the citizens and into hands that won't use our system.
3) I can, however, see where a lot of illegal immigration becomes a problem. It's usually more of a social thing, than an economic thing, and right now, in my corner of the world, is a great example.
It's both. It's economic because they aren't paying taxes and quite often sending some to their families in a foreign country. That's MORE money out of the hands of the country and to the hands of people that didn't make it.
4) As far as the "if you want to be here so badly, just come here legally" argument goes. Anybody who seriously believes in that argument is a f***ing retard. 9 times out of 10, the reason they resort to coming here illegally is because the waiting list is so goddamn long. My friend's family applied for visas from Ecuador a few years ago. 20 year wait... They wanted to come here so they could get cancer treatment for their 6 year old daughter. Unfortunately, they didn't have that time to wait, nor the money to get smuggled into the USA, and said 6 year old daughter, didn't see her 7th birthday. That's just one of the situations people I know have been in. That argument just doesn't hold up. Many others do, I've only really outlined the 2 arguments I really have a problem with, because they just don't hold up
This is a bad example and is in no way typical. It sounds more like your friend's family are idiots. There are over a dozen types of visas some of which can be issued on arrival and renewed later. There's even a medical visa (http://www.immihelp.com/visitor-visa/visitor-visa-usa-medical-treatment.html). You don't have to be residents to get treatment. You're attempting to play to sympathies by stating that your friend's family should be an exception to the rules. If they can't afford to meet those requirements, tough. I don't want them to die, but it means there are enough problems in their own country that they can't get the treatment they need. Don't break the laws of another country to get treatment.
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This is the real world, and illegal immigration or indeed mass immigration is harmful.
I agree with this statement, however I don't agree with the steps Arizona is taking.
I myself am Hispanic, 3rd generation legal, but still visibly Hispanic, and I detest that if I were in Arizona I could be deported simply for forgetting my wallet.
There are better ways to deal with illegal immigration that don't involve hassling people who worked within the system and are here completely legally.
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This is the real world, and illegal immigration or indeed mass immigration is harmful.
I agree with this statement, however I don't agree with the steps Arizona is taking.
I myself am Hispanic, 3rd generation legal, but still visibly Hispanic, and I detest that if I were in Arizona I could be deported simply for forgetting my wallet.
There are better ways to deal with illegal immigration that don't involve hassling people who worked within the system and are here completely legally.
If you have a legal background you shouldn't be deported in your situation. Just memorize you DL number or SS.
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This is the real world, and illegal immigration or indeed mass immigration is harmful.
I agree with this statement, however I don't agree with the steps Arizona is taking.
I myself am Hispanic, 3rd generation legal, but still visibly Hispanic, and I detest that if I were in Arizona I could be deported simply for forgetting my wallet.
There are better ways to deal with illegal immigration that don't involve hassling people who worked within the system and are here completely legally.
If you have a legal background you shouldn't be deported in your situation. Just memorize you DL number or SS.
That's seriously unsafe. Anybody imitating a law enforcer could get your Social that way.
Still haven't heard from my friend in Arizona. He isn't hispanic or illegal, but I know that some people don't give a sh*t and will pester you so long as you aren't white.
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Not for the on the side police, when you get to the station... ::)
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Simply because some people in this country, will not help themselves (and this is the only reason why you see bums on the street, in today's day and age, the only way to get in that situation, is to desire to be in that situation),
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
No.
The homeless tend to be mentally ill. No-one especially wants to be on the streets, in the danger and the crap that entails. It's bizarre that we go between arguing that leftism is doomed to fail because people will only work for their own good... but assume that, in other contexts, people wouldn't choose to work for the advantages it yields. Do you honestly think doing seven hours of office work is that difficult?
Now, until recently, I've been unemployed myself, for about eight months. I'm a graduate of the University of Cambridge. Do you honestly think I'd have clawed my way up to become a Cantab if I'd been too lazy to make an exchange of simply a few days' labor for £200 a week? Do you even understand what it takes to get where I've reached? The Ivy League is something of a comparison, although, as a rule, Cambridge's higher standing, globally speaking, means we deal with a larger portion of foreign competition in admission. I am neither a slacker, or devoid of motivation. Anyone who will claim otherwise - and plenty have - can **** right off.
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Applauds*
I've worked under the table since I graduated in 2006 just cause the job market is so hard. I barely made $400 a month. Basically I lived on $10 a week for food cause $15 would go into gas. The rest would go into bills. Was almost homeless except a complicated relationship girlfriend allowed me to stay at her apartment until her bipolar roommate kicked me out. Luckily at the same time my guard card kicked in and I got a security offer at a local hospital, so I was allowed to move in with my parents for the time being. But still, that's practically 4 years of barely scraping by on not having a job except I got accepted at walmart for a month. I got fired cause they messed up my schedule. Yet this one illegal would cuss everyone out, pinch people nipples, etc. I reported it up the ladder 4 times in the store and finally called the district manager and only then was the illegal fired. So let's weigh this out. White natural born american guy trying to make his way in life, polite, does his work. Or slacker illegal who is just horribly rude. One of the answers should label you the town fricken retard and yet, walmart went with it.
I'll admit, I'm probably a little racist cause most of the fights I got into was with those from south of the border. I have never met another culture as rude, hateful, etc. as them. I'd prefer the Nazi's over them. And yes, I don't like Nazi-ism, but hell, I could understand them more and they are more polite. Minus the atrocities to mankind.
Point: I'd rather deport them all, expand border patrol, and open up some jobs. If they want to come over, do it legally, learn english, learn how to drive, and learn some manners.
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NFITC! - You are my hero. I completely agree with what you said.
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NFITC! - You are my hero. I completely agree with what you said.
Thankie ;D
Applauds*
I've worked under the table since I graduated in 2006 just cause the job market is so hard. I barely made $400 a month. Basically I lived on $10 a week for food cause $15 would go into gas. The rest would go into bills. Was almost homeless except a complicated relationship girlfriend allowed me to stay at her apartment until her bipolar roommate kicked me out. Luckily at the same time my guard card kicked in and I got a security offer at a local hospital, so I was allowed to move in with my parents for the time being. But still, that's practically 4 years of barely scraping by on not having a job except I got accepted at walmart for a month. I got fired cause they messed up my schedule. Yet this one illegal would cuss everyone out, pinch people nipples, etc. I reported it up the ladder 4 times in the store and finally called the district manager and only then was the illegal fired. So let's weigh this out. White natural born american guy trying to make his way in life, polite, does his work. Or slacker illegal who is just horribly rude. One of the answers should label you the town fricken retard and yet, walmart went with it.
Yet another reason that validates my boycott of Wal-Mart. Three years going. It should be longer, but I had to go once. It's a long story.
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I disagree with you completely, Cupcake.
1) I live right next to NYC, I know a large amount of illegals, some of them even being close friends
Doesn't change anything. They're not allowed. If I'm friends with a known child molester should I accept them all and say none of them are wrong for doing what they're doing?
2) The argument of "the illegals are taking our jobs" is a faulty argument. They take the jobs that everybody else refuses to do.
They didn't refuse them because they needed money. The poverty stricken in this country need money too. THEY don't take it because this country is idiotic enough to convince them that they deserve better. That's money out of the hands of the citizens and into hands that won't use our system.
3) I can, however, see where a lot of illegal immigration becomes a problem. It's usually more of a social thing, than an economic thing, and right now, in my corner of the world, is a great example.
It's both. It's economic because they aren't paying taxes and quite often sending some to their families in a foreign country. That's MORE money out of the hands of the country and to the hands of people that didn't make it.
4) As far as the "if you want to be here so badly, just come here legally" argument goes. Anybody who seriously believes in that argument is a f***ing retard. 9 times out of 10, the reason they resort to coming here illegally is because the waiting list is so goddamn long. My friend's family applied for visas from Ecuador a few years ago. 20 year wait... They wanted to come here so they could get cancer treatment for their 6 year old daughter. Unfortunately, they didn't have that time to wait, nor the money to get smuggled into the USA, and said 6 year old daughter, didn't see her 7th birthday. That's just one of the situations people I know have been in. That argument just doesn't hold up. Many others do, I've only really outlined the 2 arguments I really have a problem with, because they just don't hold up
This is a bad example and is in no way typical. It sounds more like your friend's family are idiots. There are over a dozen types of visas some of which can be issued on arrival and renewed later. There's even a medical visa (http://www.immihelp.com/visitor-visa/visitor-visa-usa-medical-treatment.html). You don't have to be residents to get treatment. You're attempting to play to sympathies by stating that your friend's family should be an exception to the rules. If they can't afford to meet those requirements, tough. I don't want them to die, but it means there are enough problems in their own country that they can't get the treatment they need. Don't break the laws of another country to get treatment.
A conservative on the internet?! I LOVE this forum.
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A conservative on the internet?! I LOVE this forum.
Are you being sarcastic?
'Cos, ya know, there are far more hard-line conservatives on the internet than in real life. All the people ITT are bleeding-heart liberals by internet standards. Hell, Ann Coulter is a bleeding-heart liberal by internet standards ;D
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A conservative on the internet?! I LOVE this forum.
Just because I'm conservative about that doesn't mean I'm not liberal at lots of other stuff. I'm actually not either. I'd like to think of myself as open-minded. I'm conservative about this because it's something that I'm convinced is correct. I'll change my opinion as soon as someone gives me objective facts as to why my views are wrong. Of course, that depends on the people arguing against me being able to argue objectively on a subjective matter. Good luck. ;)
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A conservative on the internet?! I LOVE this forum.
Are you being sarcastic?
'Cos, ya know, there are far more hard-line conservatives on the internet than in real life. All the people ITT are bleeding-heart liberals by internet standards. Hell, Ann Coulter is a bleeding-heart liberal by internet standards ;D
No, I wasn't. Hmm, it always seems to me that there are more liberals on the internet IMHO. But, OT, aren't you supposed to be studying?
A conservative on the internet?! I LOVE this forum.
Just because I'm conservative about that doesn't mean I'm not liberal at lots of other stuff. I'm actually not either. I'd like to think of myself as open-minded. I'm conservative about this because it's something that I'm convinced is correct. I'll change my opinion as soon as someone gives me objective facts as to why my views are wrong. Of course, that depends on the people arguing against me being able to argue objectively on a subjective matter. Good luck. ;)
So your centrist? I've always said that there are 2 types of centrists those that are weak and indecisive and then there are those whom are truly intelligent. Looking at both sides on every debate and making an informed decision is the only way to properly make an informed decision. Clearly you belong to the second group.
Again, I love this forum ;)
Applauds*
I've worked under the table since I graduated in 2006 just cause the job market is so hard. I barely made $400 a month. Basically I lived on $10 a week for food cause $15 would go into gas. The rest would go into bills. Was almost homeless except a complicated relationship girlfriend allowed me to stay at her apartment until her bipolar roommate kicked me out. Luckily at the same time my guard card kicked in and I got a security offer at a local hospital, so I was allowed to move in with my parents for the time being. But still, that's practically 4 years of barely scraping by on not having a job except I got accepted at walmart for a month. I got fired cause they messed up my schedule. Yet this one illegal would cuss everyone out, pinch people nipples, etc. I reported it up the ladder 4 times in the store and finally called the district manager and only then was the illegal fired. So let's weigh this out. White natural born american guy trying to make his way in life, polite, does his work. Or slacker illegal who is just horribly rude. One of the answers should label you the town fricken retard and yet, walmart went with it.
I heard a quote on the radio from Bob Frantz today (A local radio host) that made me think of your WalMart story. "The problem isn't so much the illegals but instead the companies that hire them."
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I heard a quote on the radio from Bob Frantz today (A local radio host) that made me think of your WalMart story. "The problem isn't so much the illegals but instead the companies that hire them."
There's never just one solution with politics. Hell, there's rarely even just one problem.
A lack of work and capital in neighboring countries --> immigration
Difficulty in legal immigration --> illegal immigration
non-negligible unemployment rate --> people caring about illegal immigration
etcetera, etcetera...
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I heard a quote on the radio from Bob Frantz today (A local radio host) that made me think of your WalMart story. "The problem isn't so much the illegals but instead the companies that hire them."
There's never just one solution with politics. Hell, there's rarely even just one problem.
A lack of work and capital in neighboring countries --> immigration
Difficulty in legal immigration --> illegal immigration
non-negligible unemployment rate --> people caring about illegal immigration
etcetera, etcetera...
And sometimes the solutions that are available aren't exactly preferable either. At least Arizona has stepped up to do something; which is essentially just enforcing laws that already exist!
In Japan, if you are a foreigner, you must carry your foreigner registration card or passport with you at all times and cops have a legal right to stop any foreigner and ask for that card or passport at any time. In fact on my first day there I was asked for my passport however over the course of another 2 years I was never asked again and never had any problems. Now, Japan obviously is not the United States but the policy is similar and works. Furthermore as a foreigner I did not have a problem with it because I was legal!
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Japan doesn't have as much trouble with illegal immigration as other countries for obvious reasons.
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But my point was just that the system is accepted.