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Miscellaneous Forums => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-19 08:29:50

Title: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-19 08:29:50
Sup.

I'm having a problem turning Hi-Potions into an item i call a "Minilixer", which is supposed to restore half your HP and MP.
When I go into the game and try to use it, i get the error buzzer, or it will only affect HP.

HALP?

(Using WallMarket, of course)
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-19 14:15:09
First of all, editing the items in WM only affects their in-battle effects. I still haven't found the menu effects. That said, you should only count on them behaving that way in battle. Setting them to a damage formula of 08h with a strength of 16 ought to give you the in-battle effect you're looking for.

An extension is planned to edit menu item behaviors, but I don't think anyone has found that list yet. It's likely smaller than the in-battle functions.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-19 15:20:51
Yea, i did that...it was the most logical..

however when you use it it starts stealing health and MP from Cloud and passing it off to the other 2 combatants!
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nikfrozty on 2010-05-19 16:09:07
Damn you messed up your items real bad. :evil:
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-19 20:26:23
Yea, i did that...it was the most logical..

however when you use it it starts stealing health and MP from Cloud and passing it off to the other 2 combatants!

Sounds like you might have some other things enabled. Double-click on its name and tell me what the byte values are.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-20 08:12:03
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 01 02 24 20 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF = X-Potion position
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-20 13:13:40
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 01 02 24 20 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF = X-Potion position

That's just the standard X-Potion. Nothing different about it. Cures all HP for one target.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-21 13:09:34
now how would i edit this string to only recover half HP and MP for all targets?
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-21 13:28:07
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 05 02 08 10 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF

Those should be the only changes you need. I don't know why it's not working in the normal interface, though.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-21 18:41:08
Still won't work in the party menu. when i used it in battle instead of digits I got the "recovery" popup.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-21 19:46:29
Still won't work in the party menu. when i used it in battle instead of digits I got the "recovery" popup.

It's not going to work that way in the menu.

...editing the items in WM only affects their in-battle effects...

The equation for damage type X8 doesn't display digits, it's just target's full MHP damage. My bad.

Do this instead:
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 05 02 24 10 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF

That works fine. I just tested it.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-21 22:58:26
Hopefully this won't KILL CLOUD like it did last time.

EDIT: Does not affect MP at all.
EDIT 2: Applying Affect MP tickbox works, however, despite having a value of 16 in strength it still recovers all HP and MP. :[
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-22 17:31:14
Reading your blog, NFITC1, it looks as though the out of battle effects are stored in a simple, 'uncompressed' fashion.

If I'm reading correctly, it would be very easy to write a secondary application that modifies this data. I suggest a second application, because the alternative is that PC becomes a 'modding suite' that deals with a mass of files - making things far more complicated than they should be.

It would be easy to adapt a pre-existing program job. It's just a matter of changing the offsets it looks at and altering labels. That is, of course, assuming the data 'lives' in an "uncompressed" form in one of the PSX modules (that is to say, there's a MENU.BIN with a nice long list of attack data for each item out of battle).

If needs be, feel free to download and modify the Libre sourcecode. I don't really mind. I wouldn't say Libre is as well written as it could be, but it is, I think, very clearly commented. And Python is very simple to understand.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-22 21:18:05
So how do we fix this?

And if a program IS made, would it be capable of creating entirely new items from Dummied-out data, or would we be able to allocate free space and use it?
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-22 22:45:15
Editing current. The alternative would be too problematic. It would have to procedurally generate ASM for the MIPS R3000. If you feel like doing this yourself, go right ahead. I am not.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-23 02:25:18
So how do we fix this?

And if a program IS made, would it be capable of creating entirely new items from Dummied-out data, or would we be able to allocate free space and use it?

Not for out-of-battle effects. The existing data COULD be edited as Bosola suggests, but the menu data for items only allows for certain indexes. The last indexes it will use are the limit break manuals. Anything before that could potentially be given some effect.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-23 15:04:16
absolutely unrelated: I messed with some enemy data using Hojo, to give all enemies a standardized HP count of 10,000 and the weapons 1,000,000 and for the strangest reasons when i opened my save file, a few weird battled happened.

Hojo's Lab: Sample:H0512 was replaced by a Zenene, Sample:H0512 encountered once by itself and once with it's minions in a second random encounter, Instead of the 2nd party fighting the Hundred gunner, they fought Rufus and Dark Nation, Instead of Cloud fighting Rufus, He fought Motor Ball, and instead of fighting Motor Ball after the Midgar Escape, the party fought 2 Madouges.

Weird stuff.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-23 15:17:34
Firstly, that should go in the hojo thread.

Secondly, you messed up the order of your SCENE by making certain scenes to large to fit in their usual 'block', meaning all scenes afterwards get displaced. You should use the KERNEL.BIN checker of either Hojo or Proud Clod to reorder the scene lookup in the KERNEL.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-24 01:01:38
So uh, how do we get an item to restore specifically half of HP or MP in battle? It seems the question has gone unanswered.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-24 12:40:47
16/32 power, curative element. Set 'affect MP' for MP restoration; algorithm 'Damage is power/32 HP'.

Don't need to worry about setting 'restore type' flag - doesn't seem to have an effect.

If you are still having issues, verify targets aren't taking strange damage from curative (i.e. absorbing it makes Cure hurt)
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-24 14:48:59
if this doesn't work i'm feeding you to the Tonberries. :[
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Y.Zabiru on 2010-05-24 18:11:47
-feeds Bosola to the Tonberries-

IT DOESN'T WORK. >:(
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-24 18:57:36
Can you show us a screeny of the item in Wallmarket?

Can you also tell us *what* you are doing with the items? There a certain rules that apply to specific commands (for instance, items always ignoring barriers, even when the 'ignore barrier' algorithm isn't on).
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Terence Fergusson on 2010-05-26 17:31:51
Going by what you've been asking in previous posts (an item restoring both half of HP *and* MP), I don't believe FF7 allows this to be easily possible.  Very few things affect both HP and MP at the same time, and none of them do exactly what you want.

So the next best thing would be to create an item that calls an additional effect.

Item: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF 18 7B FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF

Setting this as your item will cause it to heal half your HP, and then run the effect of the spell 0x7B.  0x7B is unused (it's immediately after the Blade Beam secondary effect), so you can set something like this in it:

0x7B: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FE FF

This does exactly the same thing as the item, but affects MP instead.  Also note that this is the *Spell ID* 0x7B, not the Item ID: the 0x18 special effect can only target spell IDs.

The drawback to this method is that when using the item, the item throwing animation will occur twice, once for each effect.  Also, a blank message box will appear when performing the second effect -- this blank message box seems to be reading names from the item name table too, so just giving 0x7B a name might not work.  Someone better acquainted with animation IDs and setups might be able to help fix those.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: nfitc1 on 2010-05-26 18:30:22
Going by what you've been asking in previous posts (an item restoring both half of HP *and* MP), I don't believe FF7 allows this to be easily possible.  Very few things affect both HP and MP at the same time, and none of them do exactly what you want.

So the next best thing would be to create an item that calls an additional effect.

Item: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF 18 7B FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF

Setting this as your item will cause it to heal half your HP, and then run the effect of the spell 0x7B.  0x7B is unused (it's immediately after the Blade Beam secondary effect), so you can set something like this in it:

0x7B: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FE FF

This does exactly the same thing as the item, but affects MP instead.  Also note that this is the *Spell ID* 0x7B, not the Item ID: the 0x18 special effect can only target spell IDs.

The drawback to this method is that when using the item, the item throwing animation will occur twice, once for each effect.  Also, a blank message box will appear when performing the second effect -- this blank message box seems to be reading names from the item name table too, so just giving 0x7B a name might not work.  Someone better acquainted with animation IDs and setups might be able to help fix those.

I was considering suggesting that, but I also think the double item throw looks a bit sloppy. The only times effect 18 is used is in Satan Slam and Finishing Touch. Limits have preset animations for those characters so they may not allow them to make a motion for those secondary attacks. I wonder if using attack 36h or 37h (the ones after Shield) would make a difference.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-27 00:29:38
Quote
So uh, how do we get an item to restore specifically half of HP or MP in battle? It seems the question has gone unanswered.

I assume he means one or the other, rather than both. At any rate

Quote
Going by what you've been asking in previous posts (an item restoring both half of HP *and* MP), I don't believe FF7 allows this to be easily possible.  Very few things affect both HP and MP at the same time, and none of them do exactly what you want.

So the next best thing would be to create an item that calls an additional effect.

Item: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 2D 00 F8 FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF 18 7B FF FF FF FF 00 02 FF FF

Setting this as your item will cause it to heal half your HP, and then run the effect of the spell 0x7B.  0x7B is unused (it's immediately after the Blade Beam secondary effect), so you can set something like this in it:

0x7B: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 01 02 24 10 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 02 FE FF

This does exactly the same thing as the item, but affects MP instead.  Also note that this is the *Spell ID* 0x7B, not the Item ID: the 0x18 special effect can only target spell IDs.

The drawback to this method is that when using the item, the item throwing animation will occur twice, once for each effect.  Also, a blank message box will appear when performing the second effect -- this blank message box seems to be reading names from the item name table too, so just giving 0x7B a name might not work.  Someone better acquainted with animation IDs and setups might be able to help fix those.

I've been using 'call second spell' for my Darkside ability (sacrifice HP for a powerful phys. attack). There is one precaution to note, however, to do with animations. Basically, the anim ID for the second spell is treated as though it existed in the same scope as the anim ID for the calling spell. So, making an E.Skill call a player spell will actually give you two Enemy Skill animations, etc. Keep this in mind.

Also, it doesn't matter how you name the second spell, it won't appear in the battle marquee.

NFITC1, I'm not sure what you're asking - as a rule, the one animation gets completed, before the next proceeds. Excepting the limits, the effect usually just resembles W-Magic / W-Item / etc., with two discrete and separate visual effects.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Terence Fergusson on 2010-05-27 00:54:11
I assume he means one or the other, rather than both. At any rate

His very first post on the thread specifies he wants both HP and MP.

Also, it doesn't matter how you name the second spell, it won't get named.

And yet, if you give the 18 01 ability to Potion, it will cast Cure2, but name it Hi-Potion.

NFITC1, I'm not sure what you're asking - as a rule, the one animation gets completed, before the next proceeds. Excepting the limits, the effect usually just resembles W-Magic / W-Item / etc., with two discrete and separate visual effects.

He's referring to the fact that the only abilities that canonically used this ability were those that can apparently already handle the job without printing the attack name or animation twice.  Finding out *why* would be an important step in seeing if it's possible to use it better for other attacks.
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Bosola on 2010-05-27 01:53:24
His very first post on the thread specifies he wants both HP and MP.

: /

And yet, if you give the 18 01 ability to Potion, it will cast Cure2, but name it Hi-Potion.

Really? Interesting. Haven't seen the same happening with magic, however.

He's referring to the fact that the only abilities that canonically used this ability were those that can apparently already handle the job without printing the attack name or animation twice.  Finding out *why* would be an important step in seeing if it's possible to use it better for other attacks.

How much info do we actually have on the attack anim format? There must presumably be 'checkpoints' for launching into other animations, but how are they implemented?
Title: Re: FF7-PC Item Creation
Post by: Terence Fergusson on 2010-05-27 02:20:07
How much info do we actually have on the attack anim format? There must presumably be 'checkpoints' for launching into other animations, but how are they implemented?

The last I saw on it was in this thread on Action Opcodes (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9345.0) posted by Akari.  It's certainly not my field, at any rate, but there's enough progress there for someone who's already looked into it to maybe suggest an answer.