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1

General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)

« on: 2016-07-25 04:31:52 »

Plus I don't want every single character using the same words all the time in every dialogue.

Exactly! Just like when you are writing Fiction, you want each character to have their own voice (using certain words/sayings, have certain levels of intelligence, etc. etc.), and not merge into one unforgettable blob.

You want them to be unique, such as:

• Yuffie is the only character who says "gawd" (7 times) + from a quick look, she seems to be the only one who drags some words: "c'moooon" + "boooooring".
• Barret/Cid are the only main characters who say "whaddya" + they like cuttin' their "ing"s.
• Cait Sith wi' his Sco'ish accent.

Earlier this morning I split each main character's dialogue so I could get individualized Word Lists. This is how I spotted some of those inconsistencies. I will probably do a few more broad passes like this before drilling down into the real nitty gritty.

I find it also helps you spot errors when you rip apart the text and visualize it in multiple different forms.

< I deliberately left "taking" intact here because it's a very serious dialogue and I thought him using a full word had more impact. I did actually think about that as I used the full word

I was thinkin' the same thing before I posted, and I could see the reasoning. I had the same exact thoughts runnin' through my head when looking at the places where Cid said "them" <-> "'em".

I will have to gather more stats/evidence in the more nitty gritty phases... I believe you will learn to see my ways!


"{PURPLE}♥{WHITE}" occurred 63 times total. 61 of those were placed DIRECTLY after the punctuation. Only these 2 had an extra space before. I have no idea if this extra space changes the actual display in game.

[onna_52.txt]

#xy 172 64
“Okay,okay.***{PURPLE} ♥{WHITE}***”
  (You moody thing…){NEW}
“Come on,everyone’s waiting.”
{CHOICE}Everyone?
{CHOICE}What the hell am I doing?

[onna_52.txt]

#xy 188 72
“So,shall we begin?*** {PURPLE}♥{WHITE}***”{NEW}
“Sir,{PURPLE}♥{WHITE}
  did you choose this room
  because…”{NEW}
“…you’re feeling lonely?”
{CHOICE}I’m used to it
{CHOICE}I don’t want to talk

2

General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)

« on: 2016-07-24 14:47:40 »

Here are a few potential things I ran across today:


Cid

"Whadda you" -> "Whaddya".

There are 5 other cases where Cid says "whaddya":

[sea.txt]

{CID}
“***Whadda*** you guys up to?”

I think in this case, "them" -> "’em" would work better:

[itown2.txt]

{CID}
“Dammit!
  It’s one of ***them*** freak Weapons!!”{NEW}
“Of all the times to show up!”

Some Cid Word List Stats:

• 13 "’em" + 4 "them"

Cait Sith

Cait Sith only says 1 "with" + 12 "wi’":

[loslake1.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“Rufus wants tae defeat
  Sephiroth ***with*** it.”

 
1 "My" -> 8 "Mah":

[yougain2.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“Gil! The gil!
  ***My*** gil is missin’!”

"until" -> "’til":

[fship_24.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“But the reactors create channels
  where the energy leaves the ground.”{NEW}
“Once those are open,they cannae
  be plugged ***until*** the flow runs dry.”

2 "dae ye" -> 3 "d’ye":

[yougan.txt] + [yougan3.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“This one?
  What ***dae ye*** mean ‘This one’?”{NEW}
“Got a guilty conscience
  fer somethin’ else,aye!?”

Some Cait Sith Word List Stats:

• 3 "c’moan" + 3 "come oan".
• 33 "o’" + 3 "of"

Barret

"taking" -> "takin’":

[fship_25.txt]

{BARRET}
“At first,it was revenge
  against Shin-Ra for ***taking***
  my hometown from me.”{NEW}
“But now…”{NEW}
“Yeah,I’m fightin’ for Marin.”{NEW}
“For Marin…
  For Marin’s future.”{NEW}
“Yeah… I guess I’m doin’
  all this for her sake.”

This one could potentially be changed from:

"apologize" -> "’pologize"

There was one other time that was used in the text (the only other time Barret said any form of "apologize"), and it might work well here too:

[ithos.txt]

{BARRET}
“You got nothin’ to ***apologize*** for.
  We’ll come back an’ check on ya.”

I think it would fit well with the rest of his dialect.

Yeah, there is inconsistency with Cait, but it's deliberate.  The use of one 'gawn' is to place it into people's minds that he is Scottish. If I used gawn for all goin', it would be very jarring.

Then I would argue to change that "gawn" into "goin'". There are already so many other "Scottish" words being used—plus every other usage throughout the entire game Cait Sith says "goin'"!

I toned down the Scottish dialect a lot for the sanity of everyone, and so sometimes you will see aw and sometimes all.  Depends on how I felt it sounded in text.  Some words are ALWAYS used like 'tae' (which is why into is definitely incorrect).

Heh. I would think this Scottish is  already pretty in your face throughout all of his dialogue. I will have to take a closer look at the "aw" and "all" usages specifically. I guess that is why I am partially trying to post the # of usages. Saves me work later on when trying to take closer looks at some potential mismatches/oddities.

But bottom line I tried not to overdo the Scottish dialect - and Prince Lex discussed how strong I needed it.  It would become an annoyance to have a strong true dialect, rather than its intended purpose - making Cait unique, and making sense of the scene with Heidegger/Scarlet.

I agree completely.

And were these discussions somewhere on the boards (maybe in the old Beacause topic?)? Or was this something discussed via PM? I would be interested in reading the explanation/reasoning/levels being discussed.

I must admit, I haven't read through the entire old Beacause thread yet. I typically try to do my research before posting!

3

General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)

« on: 2016-07-23 19:31:03 »

I also don't know if you caught some of my edits—I was editing my post for quite a while (didn't expect you to respond so quickly).

2 "can’t"
1 "I’ll"

False alarm on these. Those actually existed in a {CHOICE}.


1 "Everythin’s"

[jailin2.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“Fortune looks good.
  ***Everythin’s*** perfect!”

1 "into"

[kuro9.txt]

#cy 88
{CAIT SITH}
“The Ancients sure did
  put some effort ***into*** aw this.”

And that "aw" made me look it up.

Cait Sith says ~21 "all" + ~7 "aw".


There is also 1 "awready" + 1 "already".

[fship_23.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“Och.
  Ah’ve told ye that ***already***.”

 

1 "your"

[nivl_3.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“{CLOUD},
  did ye make up ***your*** story
  juist tae gain our sympathy?”

I also caught this one just now. 1 "been" -> 11 "bin":

[chorace2.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“See,there’s somethin’
  aboot ye that’s ***been***
  botherin’ me.”{NEW}
“It’s the way that ye live.”{NEW}
“Ye dinnae get paid,
  ye dinnae get praised.”{NEW}
“Yet ye still risk yer lives,
  an’ continue oan yer journey.
  Seein’ that makes me…”

Gawn does not mean gone Means going.

Haha. Well that is what I get for only looking at word counts and making quick assumptions.

Well he says 20 "goin’". That is the only "gawn" in the entire text!

4

General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)

« on: 2016-07-23 18:44:20 »

While not strictly wrong, I've changed it. May as well be consistent.

Exactly. That is one of the key points when working on texts—to make the work consistent within itself.

If you spell things a certain way (or follow certain rules), make sure you stick with it throughout the work.

This one got left alone because I assumed it was some sort of Scottish thing. I mean, they use "no" instead of "no’", for example. They don't place an apostrophe for the missing t. I'll have to check this one again. Edit.  Checked with Prince Lex and it is "You 'n' me", even in Scotland.

Heh. Trying to wrap my head around this new Cait Sith dialogue is making my head hurt—and it doesn't help that a lot of his words get in the way of "legitimate" English words. Plus all the apostrophes make it a giant pain to quickly read + spellcheck.

I may have to do a few passes looking only at Cait Sith's dialogue + trying to make that consistent within itself.

For example, I did a quick word list of Cait Sith's dialogue, and there were:

• 20 "aboot" + 2 "’boot"
• 19 "cannae" + 2 "can’t"
• 1 "ev’ry" + lots of "everyone"/"everyone’ll"/"everyone’s"
• 1 "ev’rythin’" + 1 "Everythin’s"
• 1 "gawn" + 3 "gone"
• 1 "intae" + 1 "into"
• 9 "Ah’ll" + 1 "I’ll"
• 1 "ol’" + 1 "old"
• 7 "th’" but 101 "the"
• 7 "yer" + 1 "your" + 1 "yours"

These types of inconsistencies will probably require very careful consideration/reading + another normalizing pass.

Deliberately left with no space, due to the font being so spacey already.  It looks crap in game when a space is added there.

Well then, there are these two:

[blin62_3.txt]

------------------------------
15. The Space Program:
     A Glorious History ***Vol. 1***
------------------------------
18. The Space Program:
     A Glorious History ***Vol. 2***

There are no more "Vol." anywhere else in the entire text, so there isn't anything else to compare to. The only other times periods are followed by numbers are all of the:

Shin-Ra ***Bldg. 70F***

So grammatically incorrect, but no-one will really notice and it looks better anyway.

Well I guess I will continue being a no one.

PS. I actually have no idea how it looks in the game, so you might know best there with the font spacing issues. I actually haven't played FF7 since way back on PS1. I read the Eurogamer article and was thinking now might be a good time to jump back in... although I still haven't decided whether I want to hold off until R05, or just jump in now!

The hyphen issue is deliberate because it looks crap to use a colon there in game when a lot of colons follow it. It was just a choice to make it look better.  Although, saying that, I did add the {NEW}, so it would now look ok to use the colon.  Ok, I've amended that too.

Great to hear!

I am not that familiar with the in-depth workings of the FF7 dialogue system (Window Size, Font, Window Positioning, etc. etc.).

So is there any sort of rules that strictly have to be followed when editing these text files?

Can extra lines can be added or can text be shifted around from one line to the next?

Or is there a certain max character limit per line?

Or is there another nebulous "rule" you should follow, such as if there are multiple lines, try to make them approximately the same length of characters?

5

General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)

« on: 2016-07-23 01:16:06 »

Hey DLPB, I came across this retranslation from the Eurogamer article and have been following it ever since:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-29-why-would-someone-spend-five-years-retranslating-all-of-final-fantasy-7

FF7 is one of the most memorable games from my childhood, and I was fascinated reading about the work that went into this.

Since I do quite a bit of work on digitizing books, I decided to install Reunion and take a look through the text files.

My brain reads double words as one - and missing words as being there when there should be double.  It's irritating.  Stupid brain.

This is an extremely common typo—it even occurs in many books. In the future, you should be able to use this Regex (or some variant of it):

Search: (\b[A-Za-z]+) (\1\b)


Definitely Typos

I used that Regex to catch a few more "double words".

[bugin1a.txt]

{CLOUD}
“Oh yeah,Bugenhagen,
  I need one ***more more*** favour…”{NEW}
“We’re carrying around these
  Huge Materias. Since they’re
  kind of delicate we’d like to
  leave them in a safe place.”

 

[bwhlin.txt]

{YUFFIE}
“It just felt like ***the
  the*** time was right…”

I believe that is all of the wrongful "double words". There were only a handful more throughout the entire text, and they all seemed valid.


Here are some "everyday" errors:

http://grammarist.com/usage/everyday-every-day/

I believe these should be changed to "every day".

[bugin1c.txt]

{YUFFIE}
“Whoa! Wooow!
  Gotta give you some credit…
  Not ***everyday*** you can surprise me!”

[convil_1.txt]

“Wow,
  it’s not ***everyday*** you see
  people climbing up here.”{NEW}
“Huh? What’s wrong with
  your eyes? Never mind…”{NEW}
“Listen,this is about to turn
  into a battlefield with Shin-Ra.”{NEW}
“You’d best go back down if
  you don’t want to get involved.”

[convil_1.txt]

“Wow,
  it’s not ***everyday*** you see
  people climbing up here.”{NEW}
“Listen,this is about to turn
  into a battlefield with Shin-Ra.”{NEW}
“You’d best go back down if
  you don’t want to get involved.”

[yougan2.txt]

{RED XIII}
“You don’t see one
  like this ***everyday***…”

Similarly, here is a "far away" error:

http://grammarist.com/usage/faraway-vs-far-away/

I believe this should be changed to "faraway".

[ealin12.txt]

Elmina
“…During the war.”{NEW}
“My husband was sent to the front.
  Some ***far away*** place called Wutai.”

"jockeys"

[crcin_1.txt]

Esto
“Oh yeah,***jockey’s***
  can’t bet on themselves.”{NEW}
“But if you win,you’ll get the
  corresponding item ticket,
  so give it a whirl!”

There were 25 other usages of "Whoa", but only 1 "Woah".

This should be changed to "Whoa".

[losinn.txt]

{CID}
“***Woah***,what a nice set of beds.”

This should be changed to "you ’n’".

[fship_25.txt]

{CAIT SITH}
“This is between
  ***you’n*** me,but…”{NEW}
“…Bugenhagen’s always
  bin a Shin-Ra regular.”{NEW}
“Oh,dinnae get me wrong…
  He’s sure never bought
  weapons or Mako.”

 

There is a missing space in "Vol. 1".

[blin62_2.txt]

15. The Space Program:
     A Glorious History ***Vol.1***

Optional or Unsure

I am not 100% on this, but I believe "li’l" or "lil’" are valid.

[mds7pb_1.txt]

#xy 128 48
“Well,if it isn’t ***li’l’*** Marin!
  Aren’t you going to say
  hello to {CLOUD}?”

 
 

[mrkt2.txt]

“Hehehe.
  Well aren’t you a cute ***li’l’*** lady.”

The other two usages only had three 'E's total ("Eeevil" + "eeevil"). This one has four 'E's.

I am not too sure if this was intentional or not.

[astage_b.txt]

{CHOICE}The ***Eeeevil*** Dragon King’s weak point
{CHOICE}Princess Ruza’s measurements

Here are the other two usages:

[astage_b.txt]

Evil Dragon King
“It is I,the ***Eeevil*** Dragon King,
  Varvadoss! The princess is
  unharmed. I have been waiting
  for yoooou!”

[astage_b.txt]

{CHOICE}The ***eeevil***… dragon king
{CHOICE}The king
{CHOICE}The soldier

This is currently a hyphen. I assume it was meant to be an em dash, but those don't exist in the game font.

I propose this should be changed to use a colon: "follows:".

[subin_1b.txt]

#cy 8
RADAR
The fluctuating columns of light
on the viewscreen indicate hidden
mines.{NEW}
The basic strategy is to avoid
the columns,approach enemy
subs from behind,then lock-on.{NEW}
The horizontal gauge at the bottom
of the viewscreen displays your
sub’s integrity. The vertical gauge
on the left is your sub’s velocity.{NEW}
Signals are as ***follows-***{NEW}
{RED}WARNING{WHITE}: Enemy sighted
{RED}ALERT{WHITE}: Incoming torpedo
{YELLOW}MINE{WHITE}: Mine detected
{GREEN}CONFLICT{WHITE}: Collision imminent
               (reverse or turn around)

I took a look through the text for anything similar, and only found this usage + one other one.

The above is the only one that uses "-{NEW}", and the other one uses a colon:

[bugin1b.txt]

#cy 10
The following mastered
materias can be ***combined:***{NEW}
Steal  Sense  Throw
Morph  Death-Blow
Manipulate  Mimic{NEW}
The materias will fuse
to form a single {YELLOW}Master
Command{WHITE} materia.

In any case, I believe one of these should be normalized.