kernel scene lookup problem.

[DLPB_]

kernel scene lookup option inside Hojo obviously fixes issues inside the kernel.  Unfortunately, if I ship the kernel.bin with the retranslation project, mods like difficulty ones will not work since it will be MY kernel.

So I have a few questions:

1.  Is it possible to patch the kernel file so that it doesn't affect any other values?  If so, which file inside kernel.bin?

2.  If someone uses hardcore mod patch on my edited kernel (scene changes only)  will it work fine?

I don't want to have to ship the whole kernel.bin

edit:

Seems to be the 3rd file inside kernel.bin which gets altered.  Just 20 changes in mine, so I am guessing this wont be an issue if I patch peoples kernels?

edit 2:

I've answered my own question.  I simply have to patch the lookup table.  Well cool.

[Bosola]

You answered it yourself, and you recognized that it doesn't matter when you can just repair the lookup table, but to answer your general question: it depends. If you make changes to the order, layout and structure of the kernel (which happens the moment you start making any text strings longer or shorter), then the kernel won't be compatible with any other kernel patches.

Consider a simplified kernel line, with the name of a weapon and Cloud's Str, Mag and Vit growth

Original:
   O R G A N I C S 1 1 3

The retranslation:
   O G R E N I X 1 1 3 _(next data)_

The hard mod:
   O R G A N I C S 2 2 4

Let's apply the hard mod to the translation. We get:
   O G R E N I X 1 2 2 _('4' is patched to the next data, so it becomes glitchy)_

Let's try it the other way around. Patch the hard mod, then the translation:

   O G R E N I X S 2 2 4 - no glitches, but the name is messed up.

Hopefully that makes clear what scenarios will cause kernel issues.

[DLPB_]

I understand     It is because the kernel2 (which holds text) does not use a static data storage system, like FF7.exe which is always fixed lengths with terminators.  Kernel1 is fixed length as far as I can see...  so it won't matter because the scene table is in same location every time.

[Tenko Kuugen]

So, does this mean the re-translation is going to be included in the ( big ) remix patch?
or rather, that we will be able to patch the necessary files ( kernel2.bin, scene.bin, forgot what file loveless edits ) without messing up existing installs?
Because I customized the hardcore mod ( to be a lot more hardcore than it originally was ) and my kernel.bin to some... bigger extend and would hate to lose that.

[DLPB_]

I have solved the issue with the kernel and the installer is being remade soon after slight corrections to the dialogue.  It should be uploaded within the next hour.  Remember to select backup.  The new installer will overwrite kernel2 (just text) and will patch Kernel.bin, retaining all other modifications.  As long as you use the scene.bin which comes with my project, you will be fine.

I am also planning my own hardcore mod one day

If you need to use your own scene.bin, you will need to repatch my scene.bin and then tell hojo to update the kernel.  Nothing can really be done about that I don't think.

[Tenko Kuugen]

Urg, I think I'll have to skip on the retranslation then. I modded my scene.bin to an extend of which I have long lost track of how much I changed, but it's probably the bigger part of items dropped / stolen, HP, levels, attacks, parts of the AI and so on. I obviously have no patch for that either. ( If other people think hardcore is hard, my version is eat-your-keyboard difficulty )

And it was only interesting for the scene.bin, as I pretty much have my very own version of kernel2.bin ( gotta love those short descriptions )

[DLPB_]

It may be possible for someone (author of this?) to work a way of editing only the values and leaving text in place via a patch?

I don't need to mess with anything but the text.


Actually, I will have a look at scene.bin and see if I can update the installer to mod only text. 

edit.  The answer is I can't.  There are 256 files.  So the author of Proud Clod etc would have to make a patch specifically for this job and I am not even sure if it can be done given I also change in game dialogue messages inside the AI.  Of course, assuming you hadn't messed about with the AI, it would be possible to sort it... maybe...

[Tenko Kuugen]

Don't mind me.
The actual DIALOGUE in the game ( aka, no kernel2.bin and scene.bin but the lgp. was it flevel.lgp or something? ) is more interesting to me and I didnt do any changes to that, so its still worth a shot.
I can see ANOTHER problem coming up though with this patch.
Ultima espios aerith patch is probably gonna conflict with the retranslation.

[DLPB_]

Everything is going to conflict probably, it is just one of those things.  I will add options next time maybe for which files you can update....

ff7.exe,flevel and world_us changes I made will not affect the hardcore patch.  Is there anyway of me making a patch that can solve the issue with scene.bin  or are we snookered?

[Tenko Kuugen]

well, in theory you can take the hardcore scene.bin and apply your changes to everything thats NOT already changed ( most text is unchanged, except stuff like bolt3 -> thundaga )
but thats so much manual work, thats pretty much unreasonable.
if your ff7.exe just replaces the .exe it conflicts with whitechocobo and libre though since both patch the .exe

The easiest way to solve all this would be to make some sort of patch file that is applied via tool to the text. like, you know, a .wm patch

[DLPB_]

That's what mine already does   It patches world_us, ff7 and kernel.  Those files should not pose a problem, except kernel.bin will IF scene.bin isn't from the translation project.

There will be no issues with World_us or FF7.exe

[Tenko Kuugen]

Well, thats good to hear them.
Given the sheer amount of mods, its near impossible to make everything compatible with everything else. Just like some mods alter text, as does yours. Is there are "better" or "correct" version? No. It's just a matter of choice, really.
I want the retranslation mostly for the flevel and .exe since I pretty much changed the entire kernel2 text on my own. ( yes, all of it. )

[DLPB_]

  no wonder you came across that dreaded kernel text bug then.

Well, as long as you have the world_us.lgp, ff7.exe and flevel , it will still be pretty good, although of course when you pick up a weapon or item on the field, it will state the names I have given them.

[Tenko Kuugen]

They all have custom names now anyway, ( hohoho, Mako Blade sounds so much better than Ultima Weapon, and so does Pandora Unit instead of missing score ) so they already ARE inaccurate as it is.
It really doesnt matter whether they are inaccurate ( original translation ) or mismatching with the kernel2.bin ( retranslation )

Now I need to get a hold of NFITC1 so he can tell me how to increase the growth stat limiter to 255 ( instead of 100 )
I can't continue playing without that, as Tifa is at like 86 str already
;_;