FF8 Battle Hardcore Patch

[Doku]

Hi everybody. I'm new here and already a fan of your mods 
( Sorry if I make spelling errors, I'm french x_x )

I want to talk about this awesome patch. Thanks to Colly for design this patch !
I finished the first CD in "OMEGA EXTREME" mod, but I have not found a great difficulty to finish this first CD.

I agree for the first boss , Ifrit . I really saw a difference between the normal game and with the patch.
But after, I realized that any others Boss has the same strength.

Let me to explain, Ifrit deal about 350~500 damages with his best attack. Then the others Boss have not exceeded this damages. For example , Edea deal about 400 damage per turn. Knowing, you can have 4000 hp /character after the SEED test....

So I told myself "Maybe with a higher level , the game will be more harder".
And I just up my level of 4 and the three next Boss was more harder. I don't know if my level is the cause but they caused me about 1200~2000 damages.

I will like to know your modifications of your patch, because I feel than , It's easy if you're low level , and impossible if you're high level.
But I can't continue the game , because my game freezes during a dialogue with the white seeds...I hate vista , I'm really disappointed ...

Thanks for your next answer!

[random_npc]

I'm testing this patch on 'Omega Extreme' as well, and I'm mostly enjoying it so far. Looks fairly well balanced and interesting. However, I'm concerned about this line of yours:

It's easy if you're low level , and impossible if you're high level

You do realise this haven't much to do with Colly's mod? That's pretty much all of FFVIII - the reason why when asked "Is FFVIII hard?" some will answer "Hell yes I got my ass handed to me by that freaking Adel" and the others will laugh and claim it's the easiest FF ever. Monster level follow yours. But your stats don't change that much when leveling, all your power come through your junction. So if you have low level and good junction, the game is a walk in the park. You seem to play on low level, having mastered the full control of your xp gain (transforming monsters into cards, for example). You mentioned being surprised by Ifrit (honestly yes, with his insane magic defense and this critical hit that can kill one of your member even at full HP...) Ifrit is the only boss in the game with fixed level (6), along with Omega weapon (100).

If you find this mod still too easy, it could mean :
1 - your average party level is much lower than what Colly expected,
2 - your junction is better than what Colly expected,
3 - Colly should change the monsters stats curves so that they are less impacted by level factor

I personally play the game adjusting my party level on the bosses maximum levels. That would be would be lvl. 21 at end of CD1, lvl. 30 at end of CD2, lvl. 45 at end of CD3 and 65 when facing Ultimecia. But that's just me.

[Doku]

You seem to play on low level, having mastered the full control of your xp gain

In fact, I'm playing in a straight line without really farm the exp, so my character is lv 20 / 14 / 14 and I'm begining the third CD. ( Edea was easy as hell )

If you find this mod still too easy, it could mean :
1 - your average party level is much lower than what Colly expected,

Maybe , I gonna to adjust my level and see if there are a difference

2 - your junction is better than what Colly expected

Yes I think , as I explained above, you can get 3000/4000 hp on all of your character just after the SEED test (after elvoret). The Str is easy to increase too...

3 - Colly should change the monsters stats curves so that they are less impacted by level factor

I don't think it would be judicious... For my mind , I think the difficulty increases exponentially because of the multiplying factors on the Stat of monsters in this patch, and the game adjusts the level and stats of monsters compared to our level ( I don't know if my sentence is correct haha )

By the way , thanks for your answer!

[random_npc]

Playing in a straight line? That's interesting, don't mind my suggestion and stick to your way.  Thought most monsters will use better strategies & moves once they are over level 30.

3000 - 4000 Hp after the landing : I don't remember any new magic available at that point that could have this effect. The only thing that come to my mind are the damn cheaty Tornados, but they are available since the beginning of the game (I would so remove this sand worm card from Balamb Garden in CD1 if I had the opportunity - honestly.)
About 3, I wasn't suggesting Colly to do that, I like it the way it is too.

In Colly's mod, one of the big change is monster speed... For example, with his new speed Elvoret get two turns when your party get one - if you didn't junction anything with Selphie HP, and don't keep a healer on the wait, she can die before you get the chance to cure her. Are you playing in active or wait mode?

[Doku]

Yes I think adjust my level to 30 and see the changement. I did't know about the tornados cheat haha , nice trick.
You can get 4000hp with 100 Curagas ( you can refine this with "ondine" and some items "tent" ( 1 tent=10 curagas )

I found the monster speed is awesome, for elvoret you need use Double on all character and let a healer waiting ( draw 100 cures before this fight ) or use Full cure with selphie. And use Renzokuken or Ring master before the healing and the fight will end quickly.
I don't have any problems with selphie , she had no junction but his hp is enough to resist from elvoret attacks.

Are you playing in active or wait mode?

I'm playing with the active mode

[random_npc]

Curagas from tents, I see... a clever way to use your seed salary actually.
I play on active as well.

For Elvoret and Wedge&Biggs, yes the moment you decide to kill them they are as good as dead, but in that fight I cannot refrain myself from not stealing 300 esunas & doubles from them... so it last more than that...
I wonder if you would have had any trouble fighting against my edited Elvoret. His stats are more or less original game apart from HP, but it have a completely different battle script and other moves. He uses double on itself for example. But I just fear it would have turned just easier with your playing way. 

[Doku]

I think the level of your characters is higher than mine during the passage of the landing. It is normal if Elvoret uses double on himself , I remember , He uses that too in the normal game and He use it against me in that mod. If you want , send me your save , I would see if the problem is deeper in your party.

otherwise, I increased my level to the level 40 and the game is much more difficult. The speed and the strengh is very increase , but with my junction, the game remains largely feasible.

[random_npc]

Elvoret doesn't use double in the original game. I'm 100% sure of that. You must have tried this mod here : http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=10876.0

In the original game only Cerberus, Ultimecia and Griever are using double or triple magics, and Elvoret only moves are a normal attack, his special wind breath, fire and thunder magic.

[Doku]

I checked and you're right, He don't uses Double. I had a look at your mod and I find it interesting. I probably should check it after finishing this mod first 

[Doku]

Well, I finished this game and beat Omega weapon ( without hero ans holy war, of course )

He can play 3 or 4 times per round , but after the third attempt , he died 

So , I have some suggests for Colly, you should increase even more difficult for this patch, especially the Hp ( since the second CD, I kill all the bosses with 1 or 2 Renzokuken )
I have other reasons that might make you think about it, you can get very good junction before Timber ( tornado, curaga, quake and more...) , and the lionheart too (I preferred to wait for the third CD), you can use meteor strike with zell before get the book....

I think you could edit the attacks monsters, to use more magic to status (sleep, mute , protect and shell for exemple) , this could make us think about different strategies, and different junction...

otherwise, thanks a lot for this mod Colly

[Vgr]

Hey, this is a really great patch. I tested it, and to test it I took a save file where I was level 100 for all my characters, stats boosted. I was able to pwn Omega Weapon in normal mod. I tested Omega Extreme for fun, and a random encounter pwned me. I was so shocked! I'll test it from the beginning to end in another game ^^ Good job Oh, yeah, is there any other program on Balamb.pl? Since I don't understand that language, I may ask for a link Again, good job.

[DLPB_]

I haven't looked into this yet but 1 recommendation I would make is getting rid of holy war and most holy wars.  Also get rid of Selphie's "The End" limit.

It should be possible to beat Omega Weapon with 1 or 2 single invincibilities or Rinoa, even with a hardcore patch.  It depends how you have structured the fight itself and the use of items tbh.

[Vgr]

I know that if I take my No-Level Game, I would be able to pwn Omega in Omega mod (...) because Omega wouldn't be that strong

[Doku]

I beat omega weapon without linoa , "holy war" or "hero"and level 95

It's easy , use the command "Defend" and the ability "tripleco".
Omega weapon use allways the same strategy , so you can anticipate

[Colly]

Thanks to all for these constructive feedbacks!

Omega Weapon unfortunately, as Doku said, use the same strategy, so I'm thinking about changing Ultima Weapon to make the strongest enemy. So, in sum:
- higher enemies' HP, MAG and STR on Hard and Extreme difficulty
- different enemies' attack moves
- Gayla should have more MAG and SPR to make Meltdown draw not so easy, as it is now
- enemies should be maybe little faster on Extreme difficulty

Am I omitted something?

Oh, yeah, is there any other program on Balamb.pl? Since I don't understand that language, I may ask for a link

Vgr255, download section on balamb.pl has almost only Polish language patches for FF8 + some other little things in Polish (parody magazine, etc.). If I make any other mod for PC version, I'll write about it on this forum.

[Doku]

higher enemies' HP, MAG and STR on Hard and Extreme difficulty

Yes, I will summarize here:

-Good magic are available before timber ( Curagas , quake , quart , tornado , ultima... ), so monsters do scratch you
-You can get the Lionheart before Timber (  )

different enemies' attack moves

Yep, this might surprise us, then we should develop new strategies, like ennemies using meltdown , dispell , protect , triple and more

Gayla should have more MAG and SPR to make Meltdown draw not so easy, as it is now

;
Hum maybe you should modify this magic. Normally, it's reduce to 0 the DEF and SPR, maybe you could change to 50%. Or , delete the draws ( You can drawn it on Gayla, Bomb and Elastoid ) to allow them to get just by transforming items

enemies should be maybe little faster on Extreme difficulty

Hum maybe for people playing with a low level, but I remember, I beat Adel on level 65 and his spd and other stats was to 255

Am I omitted something?

No, but it's possible to grow up max Stats for ennemies? Like to 300, cause with a nice DEF ( like 200 ), enemies deal about 1000 damages with these attacks 

And maybe find something for give some level, the game is too easy in " Low level game"

Thanks a lot for all Colly , and so sorry for my baaaad english 

[CJH]

A simple solution to make the game harder for players that don't level up:

Minimum boss levels (if that isn't possible, choose a level for each boss that you think is reasonable and have every level below that have identical stats)

This removes the incentive for players to maintain low levels (other than the attribute bonus GF abilities)

You could also do so with regular enemies if you don't mind the work

As Doku mentioned limit the ability of players to acquire powerful magics early in the game

But it probably can be done without limiting what card players have (which would take a long time)

Exchange the magic refining abilities of GFs so players can't refine the powerful magics until later in the game when they get later GFs

With those implementations, a low level FF8 game on extreme would probably be a challenge rather than a strategy to make the game easier

[Bosola]

I've never really dealt with scene modding in VIII, but couldn't the answer be to nullify all XP gains, and carefully restrict the spells that can be drawn at any time?

I guess one of the difficulties is that whereas balancing VII involves playing with the kernel and fixing the scene.bin, in VIII, you need to:

* control the level up curve
* control the drawable magics
* control the magic and item refine abilities
* restrict items that can be turned, in a myriad of ways, into powerful magic
* find the data that influences how junctioned magic affects stats
* restrict the availability of certain cards

[Doku]

I agree with CJH and Bosola, it's probably the best solution.

And too, remove the possibilty to throw the ability "Meteor strike" of Zell before to get the book for learn this skill. (this skill is like a cheat x_x )