Author Topic: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?  (Read 3458 times)

xLostWingx

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Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« on: 2012-03-22 17:26:45 »
The multiplayer discussion has made me think about the potential possibilities of the Manipulate command.  I imagine that it is hardcoded so we can't change the command itself, but might there be a way to use it to do some fun things.

Is there a way manipulate multiple enemies with a single party character?  I imagine there is not a way to do this, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Is there a way to have enemies automatically manipulated at the beginning of the battle?  I assume this is possible by manipulating enemy AI.

Has anyone worked on making an 'Auto-Pilot' for character AI?  This must be possible, I just don't know if anyone has done so.

I already know that we can use PrC to make any enemy manipulatable, and I know that we can change the list of commands available to each manipulated enemy.  Therefore, you could take control of Ruby Weapon, for example, and fight yourself by controlling your party's commands and the enemy's commands.  If we had 2 sources of input, which also seems easily possible, 2 players could play VII, and one could control Ruby Weapon, while the other would have at least 2 party members at their disposal.  While someone wouldn't want to play through the game like this, it could be fun at the end of the game, or even for all boss battles, or other hardcore battles.

Manipulate seems to be the easiest way to do this, but maybe those with more knowledge of how battles "work" could identify another way to do something like this.  If not, then oh well, another idea that simply isn't feasible.

PH03N1XFURY

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Re: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« Reply #1 on: 2012-04-12 09:37:32 »
after leaving my say on the multiplayer topic and i said we didnt have the manpower or the money to pull it off i started looking for a suitable engine that was free to run this and there is a decent engine available well from what ive read and here it is
http://www.multiversemmo.com/ but the game itself would still need decoding

Bosola

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Re: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« Reply #2 on: 2012-04-12 13:38:11 »
The multiplayer discussion has made me think about the potential possibilities of the Manipulate command.  I imagine that it is hardcoded so we can't change the command itself, but might there be a way to use it to do some fun things.

Is there a way manipulate multiple enemies with a single party character?  I imagine there is not a way to do this, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

It's possible in the same sense anything is possible in IT. The real question is: is it feasible? I'd imagine not.

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Is there a way to have enemies automatically manipulated at the beginning of the battle?  I assume this is possible by manipulating enemy AI.

Nish. Enemies aren't just put in manipulate status; there's some sort of hook to the manipulator. But you could write AI that commandeers a player character and gets them to use the manipulate command at the start of battle. Not quite the same thing, but a similar effect.

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Has anyone worked on making an 'Auto-Pilot' for character AI?  This must be possible, I just don't know if anyone has done so.

It's possible, but restricted by the KERNEL filesize limit on the PSX. Your best best for writing such AI would be to use the Welder stuff I wrote. Welder allows you to 'plug in' tests for conditions and appropriate responses.

Whether it would be particularly fun or not to play is another matter.

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I already know that we can use PrC to make any enemy manipulatable, and I know that we can change the list of commands available to each manipulated enemy.  Therefore, you could take control of Ruby Weapon, for example, and fight yourself by controlling your party's commands and the enemy's commands.  If we had 2 sources of input, which also seems easily possible, 2 players could play VII, and one could control Ruby Weapon, while the other would have at least 2 party members at their disposal.  While someone wouldn't want to play through the game like this, it could be fun at the end of the game, or even for all boss battles, or other hardcore battles.

I don't know how hard this would be. Something around the 'very' mark, I'd guess. It all depends on how manipulation is implemented by the battle engine. I assume the manipulate status just stops the creature's actions / T-timer and sticks them in their reversed pose. Something else assigns characters a manipulation target, and something else still checks this when a character's turn arrives and triggers the command selection. These functions are all going to assume that a party member does the manipulating, and that this manipulation happens at some point within the battle itself. Even if you sort out that, you're still going to have to build a second player UI and handle their input.

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[Having] 2 sources of input, [...] seems easily possible,

That's still an assumption. And assumptions are risky things.
« Last Edit: 2012-04-12 13:47:14 by Bosola »

DLPB_

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Re: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« Reply #3 on: 2012-04-12 14:15:06 »
Why would anyone want an AI character? Surely we play games to play them?  I know how playing games has become tragically unfashionable these days and some would rather watch the TV instead...
« Last Edit: 2012-04-12 14:17:12 by DLPB »

PH03N1XFURY

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Re: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« Reply #4 on: 2012-04-12 14:36:35 »
Why would anyone want an AI character? Surely we play games to play them?  I know how playing games has become tragically unfashionable these days and some would rather watch the TV instead...
lol yeah plus you get a game to play it not watch it getting done 4 u

xLostWingx

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Re: Modding 'Manipulate' or workaround?
« Reply #5 on: 2012-04-12 23:47:48 »
I was "thinking out loud" when I was talking about AI driven characters - for situations with player-controlled enemies battling against the party.  Obviously I was getting ahead of myself, but I thought that someone might have some knowledge about Manipulate.  Some things that would seem incredible/impossible to those unfamiliar with these mods, are quite easy to implement, so I threw it out there to see what I'd get.

These are basically answers I was expecting, thanks Bosola.