[PSX/PC] General editor - Hades Workshop (0.50b)

[Tirlititi]

So much for the formula (I don't remember where I picked it).

Indeed, "Enemy Attacks" can't miss. They can also inflict status aliments and they can take their element in account (though it is strange about it because I think they don't always do and Dogshrapnel just discovered they can have another element, maybe related to the enemy's element).
Actually, the only drawback I found about it is that it doesn't trigger trouble's spreading damage even when using a single target.

There are so many tests to make their to figure out all the subtilities of the different effects... There are even some flags I still don't know anything about.
However, I don't think it is in the last release I made, but I recently figured out the purpose of one flag, the 7th one (left to "Returnable") : it disables the "Hit" or "Death" animation on strike (even though that it's mostly used with spells that don't deal damage and therefore won't trigger it anyway).

EDIT : The right formula for "Enemy Attack" is
Damage = (Power - Defence) * Random[Strength, Strength + (Level + Strength) / 4]
It's exactly the same as "Attack 8" actually, judging from my tests... There shouldn't be more variance in one or in the other.

Note that the "Attack" statistic of the enemy is not used... I begin to think this field as nothing to do with an attack statistic.

[Dogshrapnel]

That's the feeling I got, otherwise the damage enemies do with some attacks would be waaaaay higher.

[Kefka]

EDIT : The right formula for "Enemy Attack" is
Damage = (Power - Defence) * Random[Strength, Strength + (Level + Strength) / 4]
It's exactly the same as "Attack 8" actually, judging from my tests... There shouldn't be more variance in one or in the other.

Note that the "Attack" statistic of the enemy is not used... I begin to think this field as nothing to do with an attack statistic.

Yeah, that formula looks more like it, and that was also my impression after testing it a bit. The bugs observed by Dogshrapnel still confuse me, though.

It's kinda strange that the Attack stat went completely unused. But then again, it's not the first time in the FF series that an entire stat serves no purpose at all, though in previous games it was always one of your party characters' stats. In FF1, the Intelligence stat was unused, in FF6 it was the Evade stat, and in FF7 it was Magic Defense. It seems every game has its share of bugs, lol.

[Dogshrapnel]

One thing I'm curious about is the other attack types, all the basic physical attacks used by enemies are of the "Attack Type 8" class, so what the heck are the other 7?

[Tirlititi]

I think some of the others matches the weapon's formula.

[Dogshrapnel]

That sounds useful for a few things...

[Kefka]

While we're at the subject of attack formulas, I got a couple random questions about some:

1) Is it possible to make other attack types never miss just like "Enemy attack"? Because I'd like that for Flare Star and Blue Shockwave, but increasing their accuracy seemed to do nothing at all.

2) Is there a difference between the "Matra Magic" formula and the "Roulette" formula that for example Ark's Photon is using?

3) How exactly do Tiamat's "Absorb Magic" and "Absorb Strength" skills work? Like by how much do they reduce the target's stat, and does it increase his own stat by the same amount? I think I've read somewhere that he drains half of the target's stat and adds that to his own, but I don't remember where I read that.

4) I've noticed that several attacks which use the "Bad Status" formula also have a spell power (Grand Dragon's Venom Breath or Ark's Propeller Wind, for example), even though it's useless because attacks using the "Bad Status" formula don't use the power byte. So I was wondering: were these attacks actually meant to deal damage in addition to causing the status effect? Maybe they just used the "Bad Status" formula by mistake, when they should be using the "Magic Attack" formula?

Sorry for the many questions, those were just some things that I've been wondering about for a while now.

[Tirlititi]

No probl. As said, there are lots of details like these.

1) Not for now. The accuracy formulas are hardcoded in the spell's effect (except for Vivi's Meteor and Comet which are linked to the spell slot).

2) The only difference I would see for Matra Magic and Roulette is the accuracy formula. Roulette always succeed while Matra Magic can miss.
They both don't use the Status field so I use Maelstrom if I ever want a similar effect adding a status.

3) I checked it and it does that :
- Doubles the stat of the user,
- Divide by 2 the stat of the target.

4) I think the programers kind of copy-pasted the spells and changed what needed to be changed, leaving unused fields (such as the power for those "Bad Status" spells) unmodified. I've noticed that the power is usually the same as another spell in the enemy's spell list.

[uzoko1]

Hey I sent you a pm last night but I guess you didn't see it, but I actually understand how to apply patches and stuff to the game, but I do not know how to add Blank to the party. I tried asking Leroche when emailing him, but his description was also confusing :/ I do not see an add party function in Hades, but I really am trying to learn how this all works...I just really want blank in my party. whether its adding him in or switching him out with someone else like steiner. sorry for the long post, just really eager to know how.

[uzoko1]

So I did tweaking and everything around the tool and notice some things with the skills and weapons. I can get everything working, but again like I said...Blank...also trying to add marcus now too. its confusing, but I really am trying..I tried looking at scenes in the fields when marcus or blank is actually in the party...but I dont see anything that is them. Like when you click on some numbers it says an item ex: 1 is dagger 21 is I think gladius..and so on. I was trying to figure out what will actually get them in my party permanently or what this Initializing thing you were talking bout before. Party_Reserve(2303) won't work until It actually gives me the option to swap party members right? I am getting the hang of some things, but would really like you input. I also looked at your post on qhimm, but I could not figure out where you were talking bout adding models except one part, but you don't go into how to do it, or how to add or remove certain models(party members) like beatrix, cinna,blank, marcus. What I am actually trying to do, is do these 4 people: Zidane,Blank,Marcus, and Beatrix(its okay if not her because complications like fighting her as a boss or just too many different code inputs.
Sorry just posting this if you did not get my Email :/
Or if we can use some type of IM so it can go by quicker..heh
Edit: oh I just noticed you said something about adding him in at a certain time? or removing someone beforehand. So lets say in Evil forest the first area its just Zidane, is it possible to have him there? and when I go to fight the prison cage boss he will be that 4th character? Or should I use this code after I finish evil forest cuz he comes in the last battle of it. So whatever number Steiner is at ice cavern i would remove him from party and then add blank? Can I just load from a save game or have to start over each time to test this?

[Kefka]

No probl. As said, there are lots of details like these.

1) Not for now. The accuracy formulas are hardcoded in the spell's effect (except for Vivi's Meteor and Comet which are linked to the spell slot).

2) The only difference I would see for Matra Magic and Roulette is the accuracy formula. Roulette always succeed while Matra Magic can miss.
They both don't use the Status field so I use Maelstrom if I ever want a similar effect adding a status.

3) I checked it and it does that :
- Doubles the stat of the user,
- Divide by 2 the stat of the target.

4) I think the programers kind of copy-pasted the spells and changed what needed to be changed, leaving unused fields (such as the power for those "Bad Status" spells) unmodified. I've noticed that the power is usually the same as another spell in the enemy's spell list.

Ah, I see. Too bad about 1, but I guess it can't be helped. I think I'll just lower the evade and magic evade of armlets and gauntlets then, which are a bit too high in my opinion anyway.

The other things are nice to know. That explains why the damage from Tiamat's attacks will sky-rocket after draining the same stat twice. Copy-Pasting of the "Bad Status" spells makes sense, I didn't think of that.

One more question if you don't mind:

I've noticed that the Death and Mini spells used by some enemies don't use the "Bad Status" formula, but have their own "Death" and Mini" formulas, respectively. However, since the same result could be achieved by using the "Bad Status" formula, is there any point to having separate formulas for death and mini? Do they have any advantages/disadvantages over the "Bad Status" formula?

[Tirlititi]

I've figured the Death effect difference quiet recently : if the target is under Zombie, it totally heals him instead of applying the status effect (whatever this status is). The effect Death is the only one to do that (Lv5 Death, for instance, kill the zombies like the others).

There may be a similar thing for Mini but I recall having checked that a long time ago and it seems that "Bad Status" also removes Mini if the target is already under Mini and if that's the status of the spell.

@ uzoko1 : I answer you by e-mails.

[Kefka]

I've figured the Death effect difference quiet recently : if the target is under Zombie, it totally heals him instead of applying the status effect (whatever this status is). The effect Death is the only one to do that (Lv5 Death, for instance, kill the zombies like the others).

There may be a similar thing for Mini but I recall having checked that a long time ago and it seems that "Bad Status" also removes Mini if the target is already under Mini and if that's the status of the spell.

Ah, interesting, I didn't think of the Zombie status. Thanks. Yeah, Lv5 Death works differently, according to the formula you gave in the editor it doesn't really inflict a status, but rather sets the enemy's HP to a certain value (in this case 0). That's why death resistance cannot protect against it.

I still don't see a difference with Mini, however. It's been a while, but I swear I saw Quale's Mini spell enlarge my already mini'd party again, and it's using the "Mini" formula.

On another subject, I've noticed that Trance-Kuja deals 1.5 times damage with Holy when compared to Flare, even though both spells have the same power. I've made sure that none of my party members wears any equipment that changes Holy damage (and I don't think there is any equipment that makes you weak to it, anyway), yet still all 4 party members took 50% more damage from Holy than from Flare. This leads me to believe that there must be something that allows enemies to boost the damage from a certain element by 50%, similar to how some equipment pieces grant you a damage boost for some elements. Do you know anything about that?

[Dogshrapnel]

So I just found out something very interesting.

I removed "Add Status" from Zidane's ability list planning to make it so that he would just use "Soul Blade" for all of his status effects. However, after doing that, I randomly got the Silence effect from the Mage Masher even though it didn't exist for him anymore. So the trigger for weapon status effects might be locked from working due to the ability rather than the other way around. I haven't done any more testing with other characters but it doesn't seem to be a fluke or anything like that.

[Dogshrapnel]

Okay, Gizamaluke is weird...

The editor displays him as having a normal amount of health, so I let the the player be able to poison him since he's fairly hard in the mod I'm working on.

So when I poisoned him...he took over 4000 damage and ended the fight instantly. Tents also heal him for 9999 HP if you use that tactic...

So what gives? Other "Heavy" bosses who die when under 10000 are shown in the editor right? Why is Gizamaluke and perhaps other bosses as well have weird HP values not shown?

[Tirlititi]

The Max HP of Gizamaluke is rewritten at the beginning of the fight.

Code: [Select]

        SET VAR_B15_1 = ( 65535L - Op2B(SV_FunctionEnemy[HP]) )
        SET VAR_B15_3 = ( ( ( 65535L - VAR_B15_1 ) / 3 ) + VAR_B15_1 )
        SET SV_FunctionEnemy[MAX_HP] =$ 65535L
        SET SV_FunctionEnemy[HP] =$ 65535LIt is set to 65535 and "VAR_B15_1" keeps memory of the initial HP gave to him. When Gizamaluke's HP gets under "VAR_B15_1", he does his death stuff.

"VAR_B15_3" is a threshold for his Water attack. Under 1/3 of his HP (as seen from the player's perspective), he casts Water on the team instead of 1 target.

As an example, let's say you set his Max HP to 10000 in the editor.
After the start of the battle, the variables will be set like these :

Code: [Select]

// Actual Max HP
SV_FunctionEnemy[MAX_HP] -> 65535
SV_FunctionEnemy[HP] -> 65535
// Death threshold
VAR_B15_1 -> 55535
// Multi-Water threshold
VAR_B15_3 -> 55535 + 10000 / 3 = 58868
So yeah, Gizamaluke has the same kind of system than the other bosses but it is more hidden in the script (Kraken and his tentacles also use this kind of system).

[Dogshrapnel]

Oh really? That's pretty interesting...but also raises the question of why do it differently for these creatures while others are more standard? It just seems weirdly inconsistent to me.

[Tirlititi]

I guess that's because they didn't need it to be consistent. They only needed it to work.
Some smart guy told me you could roughly guess how many developpers worked on this game by looking differences like this in the code.

[resinate]

can u add an option for ap after battle on monsters?

also is there a way to change battle music on certain battles?

[Kefka]

can u add an option for ap after battle on monsters?

That option is already there, in every entry in the enemy list below the attack list there's a list of the "groups" (or enemy formations, if you prefer), and there you can edit the AP reward for each group of enemies.

[resinate]

with this little bit of info is it possible to make new battles or custom battles?

[Tirlititi]

There's no way to change the music for now. About making new/custom battles, it won't be possible after some time (there are several steps separating us from that). However, it should be possible quiet soon to add some new abilities to enemies instead of having to recycle the old ones.

[resinate]

any chance of the ability to change passive abilities of characters cuz i notice some have more than others. would be cool to make a mod that enables more of them on more chars.

btw i found a way to customize the battles sorta, i was able to add more monsters. now need to learn how to add different kinds of monsters to a battle

[Kefka]

If I recall correctly (I can't remember where I've read it, it's been a while), the game allows every character to have exactly 48 abilities in total, both action abilities and support abilities combined. This means that if you want to give more support abilities to a character, you have to remove some of his action abilities to make room for that.

Edit: that's right, it was here, Zande has found some info on it a while ago:

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12648.msg176131#msg176131

I don't know how difficult it would be to prolong the list of abilities for any character, at least it's not possible right know.

But that leads me to a related question, Tirlititi: I tried to give some support abilities to Beatrix (mainly offensive ones that would be fitting for a master swordswoman like Long Reach, MP attack, Counter, or the various Killer-Abilities), however, there’s an issue with that. While she does now possess these abilities, I’m unable to make use of them because Beatrix doesn’t have access to the support ability menu (see picture).



Is there any way to enable the four temporary party members to have access to the support ability menu?

[resinate]

what i wanna know is how can enable beatrix to be addable after disc 3 XD

i wouldnt enable passives cuz if u level her, shes quite OP almost too OP lol esp if u go in and add support for other swords to be used by her