Author Topic: I think we need a mod manager. (Read 37900 times)

cloud9 · « **on:** 2013-07-06 00:16:46 »

Skyrim had a mod manager and its easier to install and uninstall/delete mods and also updates rather that copy this to this folder and then this to another folder. Of course, modding requires you to browse folders and files in different locations. Well there are only few mods in FF7 and FF8 not like skyrim with like what, a whole bunch of it. Installing mods are fairly easy. Bootleg has its own installer package and I think its the only one closest to a mod manager but its more like an installer. Is it possible to have a mod manager?

Rundas · « **Reply #1 on:** 2013-07-06 00:49:20 »

Skyrim is structured for easy modding while FF7 was never meant to be so and relies on workarounds and replacing of core files. They're completely different.

nfitc1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2013-07-06 02:25:24 »

Aali's driver can do this to some extent. I don't see why a frontend couldn't be created to point the game to new files.

eg. Game wants model heab out of the battle.lgp, a persistent driver can detect that request and point it to a different file. It's possible.

Rundas · « **Reply #3 on:** 2013-07-06 02:58:41 »

Bootleg IS a mod manager, except you can't uninstall. You will never be able to uninstall mods without scrapping the whole thing.

ishiki · « **Reply #4 on:** 2013-07-06 03:39:40 »

it is technically possible, it's also possible SE release the source code (but like a 0.000001% chance of happening in reality).

except, it's a lot of work because of how the the games files work. The amount of work it would take would be extensive for essentially letting you do what the bootlegger does except not having to uninstall then reinstall... you can do it!

EQ2Alyza · « **Reply #5 on:** 2013-07-06 04:04:00 »

We're thinking about it: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14383.0

Rundas · « **Reply #6 on:** 2013-07-06 04:22:21 »

No, he means a local program like FalloutMM that applies and unapplies your mods with a click. Except that's impossible in this situation, because these mods aren't packed and interchangeable like plugin mods for Bethesda games.

EQ2Alyza · « **Reply #7 on:** 2013-07-06 05:07:35 »

Yes, I understand that. I should have elaborated in that it still won't allow for uninstalling without a fresh copy of the game, but it will still add an interface for easier installation. The single biggest feature I look forward to is that it will show compatibility between your mod selections. That will require some coordination with PitBrat though. I hope he's on board for it.

Rundas · « **Reply #8 on:** 2013-07-06 05:31:42 »

I was emphasizing the fact that you will need to uninstall the game every time. Other than that, I guess it's a "mod manager". I do hope it works though.

Shankifer · « **Reply #9 on:** 2013-07-06 06:45:42 »

Even if it would slow the PC down, wouldn't it be feasible to extract all the LGP files into respective folders and run the files from there?

For installing and uninstalling it would be similar to methods used in Oblivion and Morrowind. Keep all the modded LGPs in folders named by the mod title, and as the user wants to install them, extract them into the already extracted core LGP folders.

You would still have comparability issues (similar to ones experienced in the early elder scroll days) but it would be easy to do a clean sweep without reinstalling the game. You could just switch back to the compressed LGP files that would remain untouched.

Another method (and this would be for people with terabyte+ HDDs would be seperate installs or just seperate data file folders. (Data1, Data2, Data3 etc) and running a program like bootleg to create a few different game profiles. then the only hassle would be creating a program that could differentiate between the profiles upon user request (a launcher of sorts). It would be great if there were a launcher similar to skyrim with like 4 options, Start Game, Change Game Profile, Change Music Profile (with cooperation from FF7Music), and maybe an Uninstall or Open FF7 Folder option.

Just some Ideas. I'm not a script writer or anything so Ideas are all I have lol.

Rundas · « **Reply #10 on:** 2013-07-06 06:50:32 »

That would require one to completely change the way the entire game works. Not really worth it. In Oblivion and Morrowind, all you need to do is check or uncheck each mod in the launcher. That's a lot different.

Shankifer · « **Reply #11 on:** 2013-07-06 06:58:59 »

I understand it wouldnt be that simpple. and I think you could find an outside workaround with the second method. But for the first, I don't know how much you were into morrowind, but for modding (and using ALL the mods you wanted) the mod manager wasn't always the best option. You had to extract the files and overwrite the existing ones, much like we do with LGPs. the only difference is, Morrowind's "LGP" files are unpacked to begin with. and the game calls upon specific files found within the data folders.

Similar to the compatibility issues people face in FF7, if you just kept unpacking files into the data folder it wouldnt matter what box you had checked, characters would appear white or black and things would spazz out all the time.

I think creating the game profiles would be a nice work around for the time being.

As for having FF7 use the "mod mode" where the game pulls fom uncompiled LGP archives... I think it would work, but I don't think everyones system could handle it.

Vgr · « **Reply #12 on:** 2013-07-06 13:07:23 »

Unpacking all the LGPs would be time-wasting, resource-consuming and would make the game extremely slow. You would need a CPU that's beyond what 99% of the forums have. It would not be worth it.

However, creating "Profiles" would be a good way to handle this. It would take some time when you want to change the mod, but after that the game would not be slow. That's something I had already came up with, although at a much smaller scale. It could potentially be included in some sort of Bootloader, eventually.

Rundas · « **Reply #13 on:** 2013-07-06 16:01:20 »

VGR summed up my point.

EQ2Alyza · « **Reply #14 on:** 2013-07-06 17:38:42 »

Quote from: Vgr on 2013-07-06 13:07:23

Unpacking all the LGPs would be time-wasting, resource-consuming and would make the game extremely slow. You would need a CPU that's beyond what 99% of the forums have. It would not be worth it.

However, creating "Profiles" would be a good way to handle this. It would take some time when you want to change the mod, but after that the game would not be slow. That's something I had already came up with, although at a much smaller scale. It could potentially be included in some sort of Bootloader, eventually.

Come out of retirement and get going on it!

Vgr · « **Reply #15 on:** 2013-07-06 20:12:59 »

But... Ah, fine, I'll do it... tomorrow... maybe...

sithlord48 · « **Reply #16 on:** 2013-07-06 21:04:58 »

Quote from: Vgr on 2013-07-06 13:07:23

Unpacking all the LGPs would be time-wasting, resource-consuming and would make the game extremely slow. You would need a CPU that's beyond what 99% of the forums have. It would not be worth it.

i beg to differ also i think while playing in directly mode is slower its also way easer to mod on the fly and might be a good solution for a person wanting to swap stuff often perhaps via a mod manager. its not like you don't have to unpack the LPG's to install a mod. so why bother repacking them if you can just use directly mode. yes there is a proformance hit maybe 10% (cause we all can't run FF7 faster then it should already) even here with on my linux box using the open source amd drivers direct mode runs just fine. My machine is nothing special for todays hardware.

phenom II x4 (@3ghz quad core)
2GB Amd Radeon 6690 (or 6670 can't remember)
4 Gb ram
1 HD. (and its the old spining kind)
2 monitors (one hdmi @ 1080P Tv and a 1280x1024 DVI monitor).
linux 3.8 (and its faster when using linux 3.10 or 3.11 due to many updates from amd for their video cards)

Kaldarasha · « **Reply #17 on:** 2013-07-08 07:56:41 »

Quote from: NFITC1 on 2013-07-06 02:25:24

Aali's driver can do this to some extent. I don't see why a frontend couldn't be created to point the game to new files.

eg. Game wants model heab out of the battle.lgp, a persistent driver can detect that request and point it to a different file. It's possible.

I would like to use this for a different task. It would be cool if I could change some battle models depending on the game moment. I have done a young Cloud field model for the Niebelheim flashback, but there is no way I could use a different battle model.

Covarr · « **Reply #18 on:** 2013-07-25 22:23:49 »

Discussion of 7thWrapper has been split off to a new thread in the Tools subforum.

Cleanshooter · « **Reply #19 on:** 2013-08-14 16:11:43 »

Quote from: EQ2Alyza on 2013-07-06 05:07:35

The single biggest feature I look forward to is that it will show compatibility between your mod selections. That will require some coordination with PitBrat though.

What if you rolled this project into the FF7 Workshop-ish idea... Have a site that has mod packages ready for dl and install. Has comparisons and all that fun stuff. You would need modder approval "Off Course" but it seems like there is a lot of talk and request for a better way to handle mods throughout the community.