Author Topic: A quick 'hey', and my Nibelheim images (Read 25508 times)

Goku7 · « **Reply #50 on:** 2002-09-21 19:42:52 »

Uh, two more words are required for that:

"Proprietary hardware"

Not everyone here has the top of the line vid cards (I mean, look at me, I'm still using a Voodoo3! Proud of it too, for what its worth

).

sfx1999 · « **Reply #51 on:** 2002-09-22 01:18:27 »

*misses his voodoo 3*

*got tricked into buying radeon 7000*

radeon 7000=radeon VE

radeon VE=1/4 power of original radeon

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #52 on:** 2002-09-22 16:51:12 »

Geese, I've got an old Geforce2 Pro and it can do all that stuff fine (gets faster and faster with each new driver release...)...
If I were you I'd spend the 30-40 bucks to get one

Goku7 · « **Reply #53 on:** 2002-09-22 20:33:41 »

Except that if you were to buy a new gfx card anyway, you might as well get one that at least has hardware support for the new stuff like vertex/pixel shaders; 'cause if the graphical requirements of Doom3 are going to become the norm, then that GF2 you bought as a "quick fix" is gonna seem like something you cheated yourself on.

Oh, and speaking of hardware support, I got a little more information about that new driver set being developed by 3DHQ. Appearantly, that T-Buffer is gonna come in handy in giving what looks like hardware support for Anisotrophic Filtering. Currently, the V4/V5 can't do AF, but its possible to use the Jitter points that are normally used for FSAA to be used as the samples needed for AF.

So, what you get with this is an added feature that is supported 80% in hardware, since it's not total hardware support, but more of using other hardware features to emulate it.

Oh, and with that method, they theorize that you can do both FSAA and 32tap AF with little or no performance hit (meaning the performance hit the AF will cause w/o the FSAA is the same as when both are on, essentially meaning one of those features is being done for "free").

But, enought with that. Let's get back on topic, people!

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #54 on:** 2002-09-28 15:34:45 »

Quote

Let's get back on topic, people!

Okay

Here's the latest; got as much done as I could be bothered doing at the time on the main models

I've had so little time recently to do anything on it, so it's no major update I'm afraid... sure everyone knows what I mean :weep:

This one's a slightly older version so there's a bit of the mansion missing on the left, and some missing light models on the right. I also just realised I accidentally moved the floor up before rendering, but it's not that noticable on this shot...

I'm not too pleased with shadow quality but I think I know why that happened. Original size 1280x960, cropped a bit, rendertime far too high as I pushed the settings too high, but I didn't notice as I left it for the day when I went to London

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #55 on:** 2002-09-28 16:20:05 »

You wouldn't happen to have a Cosmo Canyon, would you? XD

Oh, and another optimization:
I forgot what it's called (and I hate myself for it), but what about that technique that draws only visible surfaces? This image has the whole thing done, while in a game you could use that. That should cut the polys down nicely.

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #56 on:** 2002-09-28 17:24:01 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

You wouldn't happen to have a Cosmo Canyon, would you? XD

All in good time

Quote

Oh, and another optimization:
I forgot what it's called (and I hate myself for it), but what about that technique that draws only visible surfaces? This image has the whole thing done, while in a game you could use that. That should cut the polys down nicely.

Try reading some of the discussion above - I think that's what you're talking about.

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #57 on:** 2002-09-28 17:55:13 »

I LOVE your lighting setup. It looks like you are using radiosity.

The floor being raised is noticable, but not that noticeable. Only when you know what to look for, does it stand out. The door handle on the Inn, for instance, gives an indication on how high the floor is. Another indication is the fences at the entrance.

I repeat my request for a copy of your models. I could do some texture work for you... (I also want to use it for my webcomic, found here...)

Again... Great work!

Alhexx · « **Reply #58 on:** 2002-09-28 18:34:43 »

Synergy Blades: Hey, that pic is great! For me, it looks like a real photo of a plastic model ... that means that your work is very realistic!

- Alhexx

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #59 on:** 2002-09-28 18:43:24 »

Quote from: Sephiroth 3D

I LOVE your lighting setup. It looks like you are using radiosity.

It uses global illumination (which incorporates radiosity). Without it it becomes very dark, but obviously using it light bounces in the scene and illuminates the village nicely. I've used three light bounces; I'm using a light blue skylight (which I'll be changing to make slightly greyer, it's a bit too blue at the moment) and one area light which is a light yellow-orange colour. I thought perhaps the whole thing was just a little bit too bright; I might turn down both lights. It looks okay in the arial shot but at the entrance, using the reference pics, it does look just a little bit too bright.

Quote

The floor being raised is noticable, but not that noticeable. Only when you know what to look for, does it stand out. The door handle on the Inn, for instance, gives an indication on how high the floor is. Another indication is the fences at the entrance.

I'm rendering out the entrance shot, with some depth-of-field. It should be ready by the time I get back from the party I'm about to go to (I'm halfway out the door as I write this

) I know already I've moved it too far down as the fence @ the entrance now hovers off the ground -_- but it's halfway through and it's taken it's time already so I won't cancel it.

Quote

I repeat my request for a copy of your models. I could do some texture work for you... (I also want to use it for my webcomic, found here...)

I've read your comic in the past, tis great stuff. When the final version of Nibelheim I'll send you the models/scene (but only for your use.

)

Quote from: Alhexx

Hey, that pic is great! For me, it looks like a real photo of a plastic model ... that means that your work is very realistic!

Thanks

It becomes hard to get rid of the 'model' look - I know exactly what you mean and others have said the same. This entrance shot that's halfway through rendering is looking a little like that too but I think it's more noticable on arial shots. I think with the mountains in place to give it perspective, and decent shading/texturing, the model look should be gone and it should look more realistic.

Will post the new image later.

Goku7 · « **Reply #60 on:** 2002-09-28 21:59:21 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

Oh, and another optimization:
I forgot what it's called (and I hate myself for it), but what about that technique that draws only visible surfaces? This image has the whole thing done, while in a game you could use that. That should cut the polys down nicely.

IIRC, there's a similar feature in 3Dfx drivers called "Hidden Surface Removal", or HSR.

Would that be the name you're looking for?

Skillster/RedSarg99 · « **Reply #61 on:** 2002-09-28 22:17:15 »

i have to say WOW to those pics again!

ficedula · « **Reply #62 on:** 2002-09-28 22:22:41 »

You could be thinking of backface-culling ... that's one dirt-cheap and simple way to work out which polygons to draw. Only works on certain types of mesh, though.

atzn · « **Reply #63 on:** 2002-09-28 22:22:56 »

Synergy Blades: I've been to a company dealing with 3D graphics and such; I know it is very hard to build 3D model buildings. Like Skillster said, I also have to say WOW ...

Really awesome job man!

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #64 on:** 2002-09-29 12:29:58 »

Thanks

Here's the DOF test from last night. A little too much blurring I think, but that's easily solvable for next time.

I figured out what was wrong with the floor; as you can see below, I must have rotated it cuz the fence is off the floor on the right (floor too low) but the barrel and fence on the left is too low (floor too high). Again, easily corrected.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #65 on:** 2002-09-29 16:54:21 »

The 3Dfx driver thing I never knew about...
I think it's the culling, but I keep confusing all the names @_x;;
I think it was come kind of occlusion?

...and, wow. That's all I can say is, wow

Goku7 · « **Reply #66 on:** 2002-09-30 00:04:41 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

The 3Dfx driver thing I never knew about...

Oh, yeah. As the 3Dfx driver community found out, 3Dfx built in a whole buncha features in the drivers, most of these hidden features that didn't appear in the last official 3Dfx driver set were still there, except they were in regestry key form, which meant you had to use Regedit to set the option manually.

Also, there are a few driver sets that are being made from the ground up, but only the one that I've mentioned before (the 3DHQ driver set), is supposed to have DX8.1 compatibility, or so say the people writing the thing; but since some sets are coded from scratch, some options that weren't originally there may or may not have been added as well, and of course are most likely in the form of a CPU hack.

As for HSR, its functionality on a Voodoo3 is somewhat experimental at the moment (V5 users have had better luck with it), but the concept behind the feature is the same, to remove surfaces that are hidden and are therefore not needed to be drawn, theoretically increasing FPS.

Aaron · « **Reply #67 on:** 2002-09-30 02:32:33 »

Very impressive pics.

Maybe it snowed and iced over, which is why everything is white and the ground is too high

mirex · « **Reply #68 on:** 2002-09-30 11:44:57 »

Looks great.

I think that hidden surface removal could be a thing like portaling, which means that if you are in one room, you cant see something that is in other room which is completly behind the corner. It is good idea, but little harder to code.

ficedula · « **Reply #69 on:** 2002-09-30 12:09:36 »

No, portal space is a rendering technique rather than an optimisation. In other words, the engine (and 'level', i.e. 3d area/mesh) in question both have to have been written/designed in a portal-based fashion to take advantage of portal optimisations; you can't just add it to any old 3d engine. Plus, it's a strictly 'interior' technique only, inside buildings where you have defined 'rooms' and limited ways (only a few doors) to go from one to another.

The graphics cards nowadays /do/ have something like HSR ... IIRC, ATi's version is 'HyperZ', but I've no idea how it actually works

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #70 on:** 2002-09-30 20:02:41 »

I'd just like out that all these speed optimizations won't help SB decrease his render-time. His rendering isn't card-related... It's almost, if not all software based.

Personally, I'd love to port his mesh to Lightwave, and see the difference between the two render-times. (Lightwave renders much differently than Max.)

Alhexx · « **Reply #71 on:** 2002-09-30 20:17:13 »

Synergy Blades: I ... simply ... sim ... don't know ... what ... to say !

WOW ! That's the only word that can express my impression !! I smell a fine renderer career in the remake for you ...

- Alhexx