FF7 -> Neverwinter nights

[halkun]

Now that we seem to have the ability to export FF7 mattle models as max files, I propose creating a project for NWN.

Neverwinter nights is a fully scriptable RPG based on the aurura engine. It nativly takes in MAX data and every corner of the game can be changed.

It also runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

To help you get started (Mostly this is for TallgeeseIIII) I have the cutom content guide that tells how to rip apart NWN's aura engine and input new data into the game.

The guide is here

Now this is just the tip of the iceburg, I think.

You can also import not only models, but also convert large models as the 3d environment your characters can walk around in...

Now the FF7 battle environments are not very well suited for this as they are really small, but use cute visual effects to make them look expansive (Like the open field scene) but they are *PERFECT* for a backdrop for a scripted movie using the FF7 in realtime 3d.

NWN has 154 preanimated and scriptiable actions for humanoid characters. You can, in therory, (According to the CCG anyway), do a mesh-for-mesh replacement of body parts with already exiting NWN bones and animations.

Let me put this in perspective....

Red vs Blue has created ingame moves using nothing but head bobbing and looking through a gunsite.

We have the ability to create whole backdrops and use a much more expansive scripting system. We can also play the files ingame and not have to render video to a DIVIX file.

NWN also has what's called the CEP pac that gretly expands the defualt objects (read: props) in the game. Also if a particular 3d balle scene isn't avilible (FOr example, wall market) we can use nwn's default tiles for inside cities and houses.

WHat about the extra characters?

Well, lucky for *YOU* guys I have a whole bunch of unskinned toshindin models floating about, combined with the humanoid monsters in FF7, I think I have enough parts to make a cast of people.

Let's retell the *ORIGINAL* FF7 story as a movie to celibrate the coming of "Advent Children"

That and if we get sick of it, we at least make a cute FF7 module for NWN so you can run around as cloud/yuffie/tifa in the game.

Input?

[Anarky]

The problem is that NWN is a limited engine. Maybe you could create Nibelhiem and Wutai but you are stuck with the prefab models unless you create your own custom structures and hak the aurora mod pack. Which limits you as you then need to create hundreds if not thousands of custom buildings and that is just way too time consuming.

Me and some friends tried this when NWN first came out. The BIg problem is Midgar, how can you make a modern city when you have only got 16th century european style buildings?

Maybe for the slums this could be possible we hit a dead end trying to make a mod for the game based on FFVII, and we are some of Finlands most dedicated NWN mod makers, we have made some grandious mods.

It's a great idea but the idea is limited by the constaints of the aurora engine.

But hey, if you can figure out a way to do it i'm in!

[halkun]

It's not really that important to create everything. With really careful placement of the camera you can give the illiution of anything.

This idea isn't making something you play, but something you watch. They user will have no contol of the characters of then than pressing the escape key to exit the module. Square themselves didn't create a whole midgar either, if you look at the opening movie, you can see each sector is a simple repeat. Also, midgar is above the slums, so when you look up, all you see is dark. All you would really have to do is make a black skybox (What square did in thier slum battle scenes) or put the image of the plate above in the skybox (What square did with the pillar scene)

It's also pretty easy to use the midgar world map miniture if you want to get the "big picture"

Keep in mind too, there has to be some editing somewhere, the whole story is LOOOOONG and some cuts will have to be made.

Hold on, I have to make a screenshot real quick ^_^

ADDUNDUM: Have them....

This is what happens when you think outside the box. Here are some screenshots of me "playing" NWN

http://the-afterm.ath.cx/ff7nwn/01.jpg
http://the-afterm.ath.cx/ff7nwn/02.jpg
http://the-afterm.ath.cx/ff7nwn/03.jpg

now imagine that last picture with yellow windows as opposed to black ones... Hey that looks like shinra's hedquarters, doesn't it ^_^

Oh and the character I'm playing, she's just an articulated MAX file using NWN's bones that come with the game....

[TallgeeseIIII]

whoa whoa whoa, i'd rather not make an entire movie based on a gigantic game, using an engine i'm just now becoming experienced with. I have a few other plans for these models i'd like to test first. now, i like ff7, but it's a special case, normally i hate rpg's, so i'd rather use them in a game that has actual combat. something like unreal tournament 2004 or morrowind, you know, a game with a real time combat engine. Just installing NWN has been a pain in my butt (can i curse here?) all day. I'm not sure i want to jump to that right away.

secondly, i have a lot of experience modding warcraft 3. many people make the kind of movies we're talking about here, and let me tell you, they are BORING! even the ones blizzard made can put you to sleep, mainly because the emotions are so limited, you spend the whole time reading. and what's the point in reading a story you already know?

i'd just like to run through a few ideas before we go to this, i know you're excited and all, but i don't have the patience for a project like this, especially with my friends and i developing a game ourselves on the side.

[halkun]

I can be the puppetmaster, and some of those old quake 1 movies were the BOMB!

Actully, all I need to do is convert the FF7 characters to NWN make walkmeshes for the battle scenes. I can do the camera work, writing, and scripting all my myself. Could use a few voice actors when I gave something going.

And like I said if I get board with it, I could always just make a simple modpack so you can play as the FF7 characters in NWN, something that takes much less effort to do.

[TallgeeseIIII]

yep, i'm all for that, and ya know what... i've been playing around here with the nwn editor... i think i like it, so i'm in, atleast for the character creation, dunno about the movie yet...

[TallgeeseIIII]

whoa, ok, bad news, i read some of that guide, modding NWN is more time consuming and structured than morrowind and warcraft 3 combined, no thank you, i'll have to pass on this one.

[Anarky]

That's true but just think... its a trillion times faster than making a half life map.

NWN requires determination but you get a good product.

As for the sceen shots they look good, i think you are on to a good idea but i am still not so sure. Hwo far are you thinking of taking this?

[Cyberman]

I can be the puppetmaster, and some of those old quake 1 movies were the BOMB!

Actully, all I need to do is convert the FF7 characters to NWN make walkmeshes for the battle scenes. I can do the camera work, writing, and scripting all my myself. Could use a few voice actors when I gave something going.

And like I said if I get board with it, I could always just make a simple modpack so you can play as the FF7 characters in NWN, something that takes much less effort to do.

Oddly I've been thinking about this, right now I'm working on a crashed airplane tile set (I found I could convert and skin a B52 in GMAX).  The interesting thing is you don't need 3ds to do these things.

The real challenges in the Aurora engine come in moving LARGE objects, of which in FF7 there are many of them.  A good example is when they board the thing to go to the gold saucer, or when the rocket goes up into space.  The train is another example. However it's all doable it just has to be done differently than before.   Flying around the world, I'm not sure how you would do that, or the various mini games.  The motor bike might be doable for example just requires some interesting trickery with scripting.  Anytime you have to ride in something things get complicated.  Because FF7 has so much in the script, it would be diffiicult to put all that in voice over.  I suggest just getting the basic conversations in then worrying about voice.

For various movements, I would suggest multiple copies of each character, IE TIFA_BTL TIFA_1 TIFA_2  and abusing there built in animations to make things go the way you like.

Actually doing the begining sequence might be the best idea.  You can have an elevator room with an object on the wall that has a built in light for the 'button'  for showing the time I'm not sure how to do that off hand.  All the 'battle' sequences etc. you can constrain using the D&D system. For materia use you can use the identical FF7 system of attachment (the materia information is stored  ON the object but you can remove it, you get a materia bag that makes anything in it weight nothing, and can't be droped or removed)

All doable.  However starting small might be a good way to go.  I need to export FF7 model data and textures into something the aurora engine can use.  The battle models would be good for regular NWNish stuff.  Or one can tweak an NWN model to match FF7 characters instead.

Cyb

[TallgeeseIIII]

hmm, ok i was bored, so i tried exchanging models again, and this dos program "nwnmdlcomp.exe" that the guide called for doesn't work. i downloaded it and did everything their instructions said and it gives me an unable to read the mdl error. then when i finally got it to convert it, the guide said it would change the file type to .ascii, well, it didn't change anything, and the 3ds max importer script still says it's a binary file... so i'd like to do this, but it doens't work anyway...

[halkun]

You uses NWNViewer to browse the datafiles and extract the model. You the convert the model to an ascii format so that the max plugin can read it. (You can tell if it's in text by simply looking at it in a text editor) On import you play and poke and prod and then export as a NWN model. You can place the model in the /overrides dir. Nwn can read them both in binary and text format. The max plugin can only read the text format.

[TallgeeseIIII]

You the convert the model to an ascii format so that the max plugin can read it.

that's the part that isn't working, i have the nwn viewer and i extracted the piece and everything, i just can't convert it with the tool that the guide reccomended

[Darkness]

Hey, guys. I'd really like to help out Sounds like a lot of fun. I don't have a lot of knowledge of 3d formats or anything like that. But I can skin pretty well, and I have a lot of general modmaking experience.

[halkun]

The problem is that the models in FF7 don't use "skins" execpt for the eyes. Everything else is using vertex colors. Model conversion is more the lines we need to start at. I'll have to take a look at how to convert the models from the nin format in NWN to text se we can properly import the bellt models.

[TallgeeseIIII]

some games allow vertex coloring for the models already, i know morrowind does, i tested it this afternoon, we need to find out if nwn allows it.

[halkun]

OK, here's how you import animations into gamx using some tools for NWN, I don't have Max 5 so YMMV

1) Grab NWNViewer and go to file -> bif -> Neverwinter Nights

2) Go into the models_01.bif and extract the first four models (they start with "a_ba") into a directory.

3) Minimize NWNViewer and run the following command in the directory you extracted the models to.

nwnmdlcomp -d *.mdl

and that will create a bunch of uncompiled mdl.ascii models

4) Start up whatever max program you are using and on the MDL tool plugin thingy that you have downloaded an have insalled on max, press the "browse" button. On the file selector select "NWN ASCII Model (*.ascii)" as the file type and select which group of animations you want. For now select "a_ba_non_combat.mdl.ascii

5) Check the "import animations" checkbox thingy

6) click the "import" button

will will the load a blank, unskinned model with all the animations for non combat (reading, looking around, sitting). Hit the play button to watch the model go through the motions...

You can use this model and remove/replace the meshs on each node with your FF7 body bits.

You can then save your model when you are done. Keep in mind you should not save the animations. just the model and nodes. I'll have to read up on how to do that that as I really don't know myself. You see. gmax can't export data very well.

For more information consult the Custom Creation guide. The part on animation inharitense starts on 114. Tips are on page 122. You may want to read the "creatures" section starting on page 96 before getting down to the nitty-gritty that tell you how models are refrenced in the .2da files and how not to break the current datasets by overlapping data used in the game.

I hope that helps

[Cyberman]

The problem is that the models in FF7 don't use "skins" execpt for the eyes. Everything else is using vertex colors. Model conversion is more the lines we need to start at. I'll have to take a look at how to convert the models from the nin format in NWN to text se we can properly import the bellt models.

This isn't true either.
Barret has tatoos for example Hi Res cloud has several distinguishable textured surfaces. It's best to say MOST of it is vertex colors. This is also the flaw of FF7's models I think.  I'll go there another day

None of FF7 and FF8 models actually have lighting on them (in the game) so they used the vertex colors to 'fake' it.

You wouldn't happen to know how the 'skeleton' information is arranged in FF7? It's the only thing I can't do is glue the pieces together, I can find the weapons but I can't get the structure. I abuse the PSX version obviously.

Cyb

[Darkdevil]

You wouldn't happen to know how the 'skeleton' information is arranged in FF7? It's the only thing I can't do is glue the pieces together, I can find the weapons but I can't get the structure. I abuse the PSX version obviously.

Cyb

A few days ago i made a topic about High.LGP that contained some info i found on the skeleton...I can re post the screenies if you like?

[Xaos]

I'm just wondering if there is any new info on this FF7->NWN Project.

I understand that Tileset conversion would be difficult, but what about weapon models (not the huge enemies, I'm talking about swords and such)?

There are currently 3 models for weapons on the NWN Vault, Buster Sword, Ultima Weapon, and Butterfly Edge.  Has anyone made any more?

Also, How hard would it be to import the creature (enemy) models into NWN?

[corruptpanda]

Well I've done a fair bit of NWN editing myself, although nothing very major. Mostly in editing of the game system sense, not the modeling sense. Anyway, I am however familiar with what it takes to edit stuff in NWN, and also how fragile your changes are (since we'd need to make changes to dialog.tlk). NWN was *meant* to be a fully editable game from the start, but they really failed on that one. Making a movie: maybe possible with a years worth of fudging into the system. Making a FF7 game: no effing way.

Now, UT2k4, on the other hand ... That'd be a lot hotter. AND, it even has UT2k4 RPG, which lets you gain experience and levels, etc. So you could make a weird FPS FFVII. Not sure if you can define new gametypes, or how you could fit the current ones in to the FF model.

Just my two bits.

[James Pond]

A couple of points.

Personally I think that using UT2K4 would be a bad idea....The game itself is far too fast paced for it imo.

Perhaps...Unreal 2?

But I would be willing to give it a go....
*imagines playing ut2K4 with a buster sword*

:D

[corruptpanda]

Personally I think that using UT2K4 would be a bad idea....The game itself is far too fast paced for it imo.

You know, it DOES have a slowdown bar  

[James Pond]

O_O

What?!? WHERE?

¬_¬ I like fast paced shooters, but not as slow as halo....somewhere in between would be nice  :isee:

[Radiosity]

Well, as someone who mods UT2004 on a regular basis and is pretty farmiliar with the engine and so on, I'd like to point out that if you wanted to create the entire FF7 game using that engine it would indeed be entirely possible. It would take about 20 years... but it's possible

Adding various FF7 gameplay elements and models and so on would be pretty easy however. New gametypes can be integrated without any hassle at all, and mutators are easy enough to make for replacing weapons and so on (as it happens I'm actually modelling Irvine's ultimate weapon the Exeter from FF8 for 2K4 at this very moment - I'll post some screenies of it when I've got something more to show).

And UT2004 doesn't have to have fastpaced gameplay. If you were making a mod with custom gametypes, you could easily create your own Pawn subclass and adjust any and all player properties to your liking to slow things down Hell, if things got bigger and you wanted to totally seperate your content from the main game, you could add your own Mod Directory Structure and start your mod seperately from the main game, with it's own menus and systems.

[Cyberman]

Wow old topic revived LOL..

NWN FF7:

Models to NWN
doable

FF7 Animations to NWN
Short NO
Long yes it's possible but you need to have several models for the PC basically.

No Cigar. FF7 has WAY too many animations to make it work easily.

Battle system Possible but would require some interesting container muching.
Materia is doable since you can set variables on any object in the game.

This likely should be handled a bit differently than like it normally is in NWN.  You need to create battle maps for FF7 and jump the player to there.  Also you need to change the players models to a different set.  This is so you can abuse the animation set in NWN for your own devices.  Running you can keep the same for example in the combat situation. However combat rounds are turn based in both games just one is 'self' run.  I would suggest using a script to handle each round of combat then stoping the combat and making the creature return to there 'spot' (waypoint to be precise LOL). The same goes with the PC and your henchmen (essentially what happens in the game).  You need to hide all the spells etc learned into the materia for combat anyways.  It's a doable thing irregardless. You can 'add' materia to a weapon by having special non dropable containers. Anyhow with a lot of careful work it's a doable thing. Spell affects etc are also doable.

Now you are probably wondering about the 3d sets, that is actually doable, you have to export the walk mesh from FF7 and the camera angle information as well.  Then you use 3ds to create the world of the mesh.  You'll have to MYO placeables too.

Movies in NWN aren't tough but I'm thinking you don't want to use those a LOT since NWN's engine isn't the best for that.  Instead you could use more cutscenes and combining that etc.

Sound, you will likely want to convert the midi sequences to MP3 and import them into the modules.  FF7 likely will fit the 3 module thing for NWN.  I'm not sure if one would want to migrate through multiple modules or not.

Big nasties such as weapon attacking the world.. hmmm might take a bit of work for those kinds of encounters. Same goes with the high wind chocobo's etc.  The minigames are not likely to be doable, but they might be, snow boarding might be interesting to try.

Cyb