Author Topic: Introducing Q-Gears  (Read 17284 times)

EmperorSteele

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #25 on: 2006-04-16 23:19:09 »
Quote from: rmco2003
And that's if you can figure out what each of the 9800 unlabelled files extracted from the hidden data track are ;)


Barret play on date, aeris ressurection sequence, and "boxer".

Dyuh.

=P

jk =)

L. Spiro

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #26 on: 2006-04-17 02:31:09 »
So is my project illegal or not?

Last time it was deemed illegal.  It seems to have changed over time.


Not that it changes anything…



L. Spiro

Borde

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« Reply #27 on: 2006-04-17 09:26:15 »
I don't get it L.Spiro. Who told you your project was ilegal? I'm pretty sure you'd need a really good lawyer to convince anyone with half a brain that creating an alternative engine is ilegal. There are lots of those engines, and no one seems to have sued them ever.

Sad Jari

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #28 on: 2006-04-17 09:43:22 »
I believe that people told him that making a new game that rips graphics, music and characters (among other things) from FFVII was very likely illegal.

You are free to draw your own conclusions about whether it is an alternative engine, or a new game.

If you ask me, someone seems to be just a little bit bitter.

Anyway, this is starting to derail badly. Halkun, split topic?

halkun

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #29 on: 2006-04-17 12:57:44 »
I'm in the process of killing one thread, this one will split when the other shuts down

L. Spiro

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« Reply #30 on: 2006-04-17 13:44:05 »
This post has been magically whisped away.

Cyberman

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #31 on: 2006-04-17 15:53:31 »
Well to get away from 'SCO suing IBM over Linux' issues.
Many things can be subjectively applied, and language as we all know is relative to the person interpreting it.  Bottom line is even law can be twisted all sorts of strange ways. It really depends on the POV of the people viewing it.

Q-gears I believe has no intention of modifying the original content.
However I do believe that it's intention is the possiblity to make new content to be run by the engine.

Cyb

Sad Jari

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #32 on: 2006-04-17 19:43:50 »
Quote from: L. Spiro
If you ask me, someone seems to be just a little bit bitter.
I don’t blame you for getting that idea; I have a way of hiding my motivations.

In that case I'm surprised to see that you are not hiding them. :P

Relax, I'm just teasing. I just found it somewhat silly that you would pursue that issue with such enthusiasm in this thread, that's all.

Quote from: L. Spiro
In the end, no one here is a lawyer, and I don’t trust anyone here’s grasp of the law (not to be taken offensively, but literally).

Which is exactly why I found it so silly.

Qhimm

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Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #33 on: 2006-04-18 13:22:38 »
My own humble opinion on this matter is that anyone claiming a project like this is perfectly legal is either desillusioned by wishful thinking or is plain old naïve. Q-Gears (*giggle*) will use copyrighted content, its name and application will be closely interlinked with a trademarked product, and it will encourage additional intellectual property violations by indirectly granting access to the game content (the file format code will let anyone extract data and use it for any purpose = encourages dilution).

This is not "perfectly legal", it is not even "relatively safe". If it gets shut down it won't be in the US Supreme Court; it will get slammed out of existence as soon as someone at Square-Enix becomes concerned enough to pick up the phone and send out a single sheet of paper labelled "Cease or Desist". Unless someone here is secretly rich and can fund a team of lawyers for a case where there's a considerable risk of losing anyway, neither the spirit nor the letter of the law is going to be any deciding factor for us.

The project is risky even if we're incredibly strict and perfectly reproduce the original game, and it gets even riskier for every single improvement we try to make (technical or otherwise). And here we are, at the very start of the planning of the project, and -- this never fails -- people are already asking "what kind of custom data will we be able to put into the game?".

The answer is none at all.

That being my two cents. I'm not too sure about the whole open source idea for a project like this, as it very much raises the risks of being shut down before we ever get anywhere, but if everyone involved has the same cautious goal in mind and won't strive beyond that, there's a good chance that the project will keep going long enough for us at least to see some very fulfilling results.

L. Spiro

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« Reply #34 on: 2006-04-18 15:15:25 »
This project is a load riskier than mine just for the fact that it exposes the file formats, by force.
Then the custom data part, which again pushes towards making it “a game separate from Final Fantasy® VII”.
Lastly, the publicity.

Getting a team together (teams talk, but then again in your case you have no choice if you actually want to see your dream come true), and worse, getting a SourceForge account for it.

For all intents and purposes, legality doesn’t stop people from making illegal things; getting caught does.


I wish you luck with what you’re doing but you need to step back and re-evaluate how you approach it.


L. Spiro

Alhexx

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« Reply #35 on: 2006-04-18 23:24:37 »
Well, I personally have to say that I don't like the idea of having a "new" engine open source... Qhimm already mentioned one reason in his last paragraph.

Secondly:
Quote from: Qhimm
(...) people are already asking "what kind of custom data will we be able to put into the game?".

When the project is open-source, then it won't be any problem for a skilled programmer to implement functions what will load custom data.

Thirdly:
We have a big "We do not support pirated copies of ..." written in our forum FAQ.
FF7 is copy protected (even if not very well), so what about the free engine? It would be also able to play pirated content, at least if it's open source.
A simple Seek-And-Destroy job on the source code would disable any copy protection routines we would implement...


As for my personal opinion:
I have been waiting months for someone to start this project.
(I cannot start a project like this, I'm simply not skilled enough to write a whole game engine :erm: )
But: We should keep it closed-source.


 - Alhexx

 - edit -
Since we're already talking about legality here, I have one question:

If an engine is able to run custom content, too, is it then "more illegal" than an engine that runs only the original game content?

If yes, then why?

Qhimm

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« Reply #36 on: 2006-04-19 07:38:13 »
In case anyone missed it, I too am in favor of closed source. Or at least keeping the sensitive parts closed source. We could maybe have some "modules" like the field rendering engine and the game mechanics as open source, but I'm definitely thinking we should keep the actual "core" closed. More specifically, enough of the important code so that someone can't just take all of the open source code, write a tiny .cpp with a main() function and then have their own "FF7 engine".

Quote from: Alhexx
Since we're already talking about legality here, I have one question:

If an engine is able to run custom content, too, is it then "more illegal" than an engine that runs only the original game content?

If yes, then why?

In my non-lawyer opinion, I'm suggesting that it is probably "more illegal", but it is definitely more offensive. It means that not only are we altering the presentation (new engine), but also the content. Even if we do not do any content modification ourselves, the fact that we made it a whole lot easier will probably make us a hotter target.

Say what you want, but even with the current state of FF7 hacking going on here, it is far from easy to do any form of large-scale modification of FF7 that actually alters its "essence" to any significant degree (except perhaps the translation projects). The new engine, if it allows (or is easy to modify to allow) custom data, will make it easy. This is problematic, since Square-Enix won't like if someone turned one of their best-selling games ever into a mod-able game, without their permission.

And no, I seriously doubt we would get permission to do this if we asked. To them, we say we're making an application that can run FF7 like the original .exe, but are they supposed to simply trust us on that? They won't accept that someone else's copyrighted engine claims to run their game, and they won't accept any attempt to circumvent this, such as us granting them ownership, since they certainly won't accept responsibility for it either.

Our best shot is probably to use every means to try and stay below the provocation radar, and maybe we'll actually get somewhere before the proverbial fecal matter collides with the equally proverbial oscillatory ventilation device.

And now that I've done so much to lower everyone's morale on this, let me clarify that I to am very much in favor of the project, and I'll do my best to help out where I can. I put forth my above points simply because I don't want the project to be found out, found offensive and then found dead because we did it in too provocative a fashion.

EmperorSteele

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Re: Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #37 on: 2006-05-20 08:05:55 »
Qhimm: Well, it's hard to say what S-Es reaction to this will be.  Only, and ONLY if they are making a remake or they issue a re-release*, will this project run counter to thier money-making goals.  They've made every cent they will EVER make on Final Fantasy Seven in and of itself.  Any store that still has it already paid for it; otherwise, you're looking on e-bay, which S-E does not gain profit from; in fact, that copy was already bought.  So as logn as we're not interfearing or threatening to compete with thier active products, we're safe.

Now, note my remake or re-release note up there.  The PSP is now compatable with PS1 games.  If square decides to re-release ff7 (remade or not), that's the ONLY reason I can see for them to mind this project.  Otherwise, it would be a waste of time for them to care, and I think they know it.

L. Spiro

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Re: Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #38 on: 2006-05-20 08:22:33 »
By throwing a blind eye to any project that may generate any notable wealth of publicity they are sending a message to the community that it’s okay to tamper with their products and use them as if they were your own.

Not only that, but any project that does generate any substancial amount of attention ultimately means SquareEnix Co., Ltd. must now begin competing with you, over their own product.
For them to create a product that is better than this project is a non-issue, but the fact would still remain that people would have a choice between a free open-sourced(?) game and their game, which may have better graphics and sound but costs money.
Competing with a popular brand that’s freely available isn’t as easy as competing with a no-name brand that is free.
And the fact that it is their own brand just adds insult to injury.

Ultimately, they still own the license.
What does that really mean?
It means they have full dictatorship over how that license is used.
What if they don’t want Final Fantasy® VII to be playable with high-resolution graphics unless users pay for this extra treat?


L. Spiro

zero88

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Re: Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #39 on: 2006-05-21 01:54:07 »
What if they don’t want Final Fantasy® VII to be playable with high-resolution graphics unless users pay for this extra treat?

I suppose we hope they don't want that...

Doesn't Square-Enix already know about these boards? I mean, I thought at least someone from there knows what goes on here. I figured they'd realize that people here strive to better this game. I dunno, maybe they don't mind turning a blind eye to what's been done thus far, but that just goes back to what L. Spiro said. They might not care so much, though, since this isn't exactly an internationally revered message forum. The only other website that I hear reference of this site is GameFAQs.com. But then again, maybe they don't feel threatened by what's been done so far, so I guess on that note we have to hope that they continue to feel unthreatened.

Covarr

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Re: Introducing Q-Gears
« Reply #40 on: 2006-05-21 01:58:31 »
Eidos definitely knows about this site, and they have gone so far as to link to it. I believe Eidos holds the publishing rights to the PC version, so they'd have to do the complaining, which I doubt they will.