Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994) (Read 4966591 times)

PokeFaize · « **Reply #8700 on:** 2019-11-18 22:58:42 »

Quote

100% cover yuffie

I tried this and Yuffie still took a beating while covering. unless this got changed in the New Threat mod, Covering sets your Evade stat to 0%.

I found Cid to be drastically more reliable in the Untouchable Cover Tank department, since Cover can't override Lucky Evades (calculated by Luck/4), and Cid can easily get over 200 Luck for a flat 50+% chance of avoiding damage.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8701 on:** 2019-11-19 00:10:30 »

Quote from: PokeFaize on 2019-11-18 22:58:42

I tried this and Yuffie still took a beating while covering. unless this got changed in the New Threat mod, Covering sets your Evade stat to 0%.

I found Cid to be drastically more reliable in the Untouchable Cover Tank department, since Cover can't override Lucky Evades (calculated by Luck/4), and Cid can easily get over 200 Luck for a flat 50+% chance of avoiding damage.

this is somthin to remove. the cover debuff. i mean maybe reduce evade chance while recovery by 50% but geez 0% seems kinky isn't it?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8702 on:** 2019-11-19 08:22:17 »

Quote from: Asherdoom on 2019-11-18 21:59:13

My post was based all on the september release of the mod and text files (so got no idea of inner calculations lol)
concerning yuffie i tested lot more in junon area where mobs attack physically 100% of time and no... it is useless this perfect dodge is not make her dodge any attack lol

i got question: i got my first MP Plus materia. is it possible to ecounter the mob that drops it multiple times or no? Is just 1 per game?

Just once; if he isn't encountered then MP Plus can be picked up from temple of the ancients instead (but isn't there if you already got it from the enemy).

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8703 on:** 2019-11-19 13:20:09 »

Quote from: Hoboayoyo on 2019-11-18 14:50:06

Thanks for the reply. I noticed in the video I linked its an aranged v1.5 but the boss in the video is called Illuyankas?
As a tangent, what was your thought for enemy adjustment to account with the system mechanics? Like, Arrange seems to really not want you to be in the front row unless you have a plan going, barrier is a must have for many fights but even some heavy hitting bosses will rip through you even with that extra defense. And did you take into account for how vanilla ff7 did its enemy progression through each area? Like how temple of the ancients is the area where enemies pretty much peak with the highest magic defense in the game.
Sorry if these questions don't make any sense.

I think I did the bottomswell fight in both normal and arrange specifically with back-row in mind because there's no advantage to having a character be front row in that battle, due to Long Range not being available yet, the boss being unreachable by short range attacks, and the waterpolo being immune to physicals. Other battles that isn't the case, in general I do my testing with parties that have 2 front row & 1 back row but there are a lot of factors that can change the way a battle plays out between players; ATB settings, RNG, stat differences, use of buffs or items.

As for enemy progression, I re-did all the stats from scratch more or less and tried to enforce my own rules for consistency. There isn't a lot of consistent logic to how the enemies progress in this game under vanilla; you have attacks here and there which have really high base power compared to anything else in the area (likely done as a quick tweak from QA) or which have stats that are a bit out there. For the Temple I gave all the enemies in there (save a few, like the Shinra ones) a common attribute in that they are strong against Holy but weak against Hidden element (which is set up as counterfoil to Holy in NT); the enemies themselves have their own unique strengths/weaknesses from there based on their type.

Hoboayoyo · « **Reply #8704 on:** 2019-11-19 14:05:54 »

Right, that makes sense. Going through Mt Corel and dealing with damage is a lot more manageable now.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8705 on:** 2019-11-19 19:40:41 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-19 08:22:17

Just once; if he isn't encountered then MP Plus can be picked up from temple of the ancients instead (but isn't there if you already got it from the enemy).

thanks for info

well that is a wise choice

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8706 on:** 2019-11-21 11:13:08 »

sorry for asking. I noticed rank up is 8 maxximum ranks ( i am level 50 and finished all 8 ranks alrady and im far to cap some stats i wonderr if is meant to belike this for avoid 255 hard cap erach) and secondly sources are giving 1 point per source only i ve read somewhere in this forum that source should give 5 points instead of 1 am i wrong?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8707 on:** 2019-11-21 11:26:36 »

There was a period of time where sources gave 5 per use but if the .exe wasn't patched properly then it was leaving players high and dry with barely any stat growth as you'd get 1-3 sources each time.

So for the more recent versions, it was changed back to 1 source = 1 point, getting 5-15 sources for each stat per rank. That way if the .exe isn't patched it doesn't cause any lasting damage that needs save-editing to fix.

If you're getting 1-3 sources for each stat then let me know and I'll sort it out.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8708 on:** 2019-11-21 13:31:25 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-21 11:26:36

There was a period of time where sources gave 5 per use but if the .exe wasn't patched properly then it was leaving players high and dry with barely any stat growth as you'd get 1-3 sources each time.

So for the more recent versions, it was changed back to 1 source = 1 point, getting 5-15 sources for each stat per rank. That way if the .exe isn't patched it doesn't cause any lasting damage that needs save-editing to fix.

If you're getting 1-3 sources for each stat then let me know and I'll sort it out.

nono sega i am getting 1 point per source so is working as intended thanks. What i was asking is: I am level 50 and all my chars almost (aeris apart) got already 8/8 sp progressed yet none of them is hitting even 200 points barely (i always chose the 1st option for each of them which i suppose is progressing em to the basic class concept they got) is that intended ? Is there a way to reach hard cap of 255? I ask for later source farming if possible otherwise i will enjoy the game the way it is

(btw i LOVE how you reworked many bosses and god save me the sweat i tossed killing Lost Numbers at level 40!!!)

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8709 on:** 2019-11-21 15:53:25 »

I think from ranks the highest you can get a stat is about +120. If the base stat was 50 then it'll be sitting at 170. You then have a weapon, armour, and accessory (as well as materia bonuses) to push that stat to 255.

On the other end of the scale, if we have a stat that starts at a really low base, like 10, and it gets no bonuses from ranks (+40 is minimum, as every stat gets +5 on each rank) then it'll be at 50 or so; much more difficult to get that to 255 even if you use all the equipment that gives the highest stat boost for it.

If we assume that the highest stat boost from each equipment type is +50 (some are higher, some are lower depending on the stat):

Weapon: +50 (for strength, weapon damage should be considered the strength boost as it gets added to it and has a cap of 255).
Armour: +50 (for vitality/spirit, the armour's defence/mdef should be considered a boost to those respective stats)
Accessory: +50
That's 150 from equipment. Then materia might push that up another 10-20 or so, depending on what's equipped.

So you should be able to get 1 or 2 stats to max, but definitely not all of them. Some stats are easier to max than others; the secondary stats Dex and Luck for instance tend to have higher equipment boosts and some characters start with really high base Dex or Luck.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8710 on:** 2019-11-21 17:56:42 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-21 15:53:25

I think from ranks the highest you can get a stat is about +120. If the base stat was 50 then it'll be sitting at 170. You then have a weapon, armour, and accessory (as well as materia bonuses) to push that stat to 255.

On the other end of the scale, if we have a stat that starts at a really low base, like 10, and it gets no bonuses from ranks (+40 is minimum, as every stat gets +5 on each rank) then it'll be at 50 or so; much more difficult to get that to 255 even if you use all the equipment that gives the highest stat boost for it.

If we assume that the highest stat boost from each equipment type is +50 (some are higher, some are lower depending on the stat):

Weapon: +50 (for strength, weapon damage should be considered the strength boost as it gets added to it and has a cap of 255).
Armour: +50 (for vitality/spirit, the armour's defence/mdef should be considered a boost to those respective stats)
Accessory: +50
That's 150 from equipment. Then materia might push that up another 10-20 or so, depending on what's equipped.

So you should be able to get 1 or 2 stats to max, but definitely not all of them. Some stats are easier to max than others; the secondary stats Dex and Luck for instance tend to have higher equipment boosts and some characters start with really high base Dex or Luck.

many thanks that was the answer i was searching thanks for clearing out

demos1085 · « **Reply #8711 on:** 2019-11-23 04:25:28 »

Hey there Sega Chief.

I just took a look at the forum's and see you are planning a "Final Version" of the New Treat mod, could you please also make a "Final Version" of the Vanilla Combat version of the mod, removing the small bugs that are still present in the current version (I think most of them are left over data from the extra quest / fights that were included in New Treat but no longer exists in the Vanilla Version) I would be really gratefull if you could do that.

Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8712 on:** 2019-11-23 16:19:59 »

Quote from: demos1085 on 2019-11-23 04:25:28

Hey there Sega Chief.

I just took a look at the forum's and see you are planning a "Final Version" of the New Treat mod, could you please also make a "Final Version" of the Vanilla Combat version of the mod, removing the small bugs that are still present in the current version (I think most of them are left over data from the extra quest / fights that were included in New Treat but no longer exists in the Vanilla Version) I would be really gratefull if you could do that.

Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work.

Yep, will do. Will probably have that done in the next couple of days.

Hoboayoyo · « **Reply #8713 on:** 2019-11-23 18:31:41 »

When fighting the physical part of Lambda(red one on the right side of the screen) physical attacks don't do a lot of damage. it has 16 k health and it seems like its supposed to be weak to physical attacks (magic part is weak to magical attacks, quake 2 does ~1k). Cloud does around 300-400 and yuffie does around 80 with I think the wind elemental shurikin which it could be resistant too, barret does 200.
Was I supposed to element earth for my weapons?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8714 on:** 2019-11-23 18:40:40 »

Quote from: Hoboayoyo on 2019-11-23 18:31:41

When fighting the physical part of Lambda(red one on the right side of the screen) physical attacks don't do a lot of damage. it has 16 k health and it seems like its supposed to be weak to physical attacks (magic part is weak to magical attacks, quake 2 does ~1k). Cloud does around 300-400 and yuffie does around 80 with I think the wind elemental shurikin which it could be resistant too, barret does 200.
Was I supposed to element earth for my weapons?

Earth element in weapons should work; you can also try using a Summon or two as they ignore magic defence.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8715 on:** 2019-11-23 19:21:22 »

i got a weird bug on exp bars somehow i leave screenshot of bug and my 7th heaven profile

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8716 on:** 2019-11-23 19:23:20 »

Have you used a save editor at any point to adjust character levels? Also, has this save file ever migrated between vanilla to NT, or from an older version of NT to the current one?

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8717 on:** 2019-11-23 19:25:03 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-23 19:23:20

Have you used a save editor at any point to adjust character levels? Also, has this save file ever migrated between vanilla to NT, or from an older version of NT to the current one?

o sega this porblem appeared at level 45 roughly. I started a new fresh run AFTER installing 7th heaven and this menu overhaul mod and NT mod. Totaally new fresh file and i dont even have any save editor

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8718 on:** 2019-11-23 19:36:22 »

The gauge glitch from your save file is showing up in a non-MO environment as well. Ordinarily this is due to manually raising/lowering a level in a save editor, or a save file from vanilla being loaded into NT which would make this instance unique.

I'll try levelling the character up in-game to see if it carries to the next level, but usually a gauge glitch like this will correct itself upon level up.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8719 on:** 2019-11-23 19:38:59 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-23 19:36:22

The gauge glitch from your save file is showing up in a non-MO environment as well. Ordinarily this is due to manually raising/lowering a level in a save editor, or a save file from vanilla being loaded into NT which would make this instance unique.

I'll try levelling the character up in-game to see if it carries to the next level, but usually a gauge glitch like this will correct itself upon level up.

the thing is: this glitch randomly appears. I swear i never used a save editor. This glitch random appears like for example, i hit the middle way to exp bar and BAM here it comes!

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8720 on:** 2019-11-23 19:45:42 »

Quote from: Asherdoom on 2019-11-23 19:38:59

the thing is: this glitch randomly appears. I swear i never used a save editor. This glitch random appears like for example, i hit the middle way to exp bar and BAM here it comes!

I've seen the glitch before but not like this.

It seems that he needs a lot more EXP for this particular level than he should (110000 instead of roughly 20,000). The gauge corrects itself once he levels up to 46, and doesn't seem to reappear for the new few levels after that.

Best approach would be to ignore it and carry on; when he levels up to 46 it will likely return to normal. But let me know if it resurfaces after that.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8721 on:** 2019-11-23 19:48:05 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2019-11-23 19:45:42

I've seen the glitch before but not like this.

It seems that he needs a lot more EXP for this particular level than he should (110000 instead of roughly 20,000). The gauge corrects itself once he levels up to 46, and doesn't seem to reappear for the new few levels after that.

Best approach would be to ignore it and carry on; when he levels up to 46 it will likely return to normal. But let me know if it resurfaces after that.

many thanks for support i willn ignore it (bnow yuffie got it too andshe is level 40 to 41. Barret now dinged 40 and is displaying correctly as far as i can see. In the future if something like this will keep on reappearing i will report again.

btw Is my load order correct?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #8722 on:** 2019-11-23 19:50:27 »

Quote from: Asherdoom on 2019-11-23 19:48:05

many thanks for support i willn ignore it (bnow yuffie got it too andshe is level 40 to 41. Barret now dinged 40 and is displaying correctly as far as i can see. In the future if something like this will keep on reappearing i will report again.

btw Is my load order correct?

Should be, NT typically goes bottom like with other gameplay mods.

PokeFaize · « **Reply #8723 on:** 2019-11-24 22:32:49 »

I'm in favor of changing the Steal formula to scale off of Dexterity & Luck, since Arrange Mode gives several levels to enemies, making it extremely difficult to snag their Steal Items (the Moth Slashers and SOLDIER 3rd Class are the most notable offenders of this, since most characters want the Carbon Bangle, and Cloud appreciates the Mythril Sword. Trying to Morph them is very dangerous in Arrange Mode, since they can and will kill the party very quickly).

If you tweak the game to let us switch Cloud out of the party as early as leaving Midgar, that would be wonderful, especially for those of us planning for parties that don't include Cloud. (My Arrange Mode party is gonna be Physical Attacker Aerith, Tifa Tank, and Red Mage)

Since I brought up Aerith, I wanna note that her Princess Guard is a bit of a downgrade from her other two choices for endgame weapons. The stat bonuses from the Fairy Tale and Wizard Staff alone are plenty strong enough to put them above the Princess Guard, but the Princess Guard also applying Shield on hit just drags it down ever further. Shield is kinda bad since it causes far more harm than help against non-elemental enemies (such as the WEAPONS) since Shield prevents healing via Full Cure or Aerith bopping the party again.

Also what is the special effect for Cait Sith's Ultimate Weapon? The ingame description for it is "? ? ? ?"
His Platinum Megaphone is also kinda bizarre. Only one Linked Slot Pair, with so many unlinked slots kinda makes it hard for him to make some fun Magic combos that, say, Yuffie can do with her Crystal Cross + Armor.
The White Megaphone being his only MP Healing Weapon seems kinda weird, since over half of Aerith's weapons are healing staffs. The White Megaphone only having 3 unlinked slots is also a notable drawback, since he can't do fun things such as Barrier=Added Effect + Slash All/Mega All, like Aerith can with her Healing Staffs.
The Starlight Megaphone seems kinda pointless since the Crystal Megaphone boosts Luck in addition to Vitality & Spirit (which more than makes up for the 15 point loss in both defensive stats, since Cait prefers boosts to his Luck) and has the same number of Materia Slots. Maybe change this (or the Crystal Megaphone) into another MP Restoring Megaphone?

EDIT:
I just noticed that Tifa has three Dex+30 weapons. Strange that her Dexterity weapons have the same Dex value, while Yuffie has properly "tiered" Dexterity weapons.

EDIT 2:
BTW Stardust Ray is pathetically bad. I pumped Red's Magic stat to 255, and Stardust Ray only did ~770 per hit (for a total of ~7,700 damage over 10 hits). Compared to Earth Rave doing about 3000 per hit and being able to crit for 6000+ (for a total damage range of between 15,000 - 30,000+ over 5 hits) when I pumped Red's Strength to 255. Please consider buffing Stardust Ray to at least be more comparable to Earth Rave, since Stardust Ray scaling off of Magic is supposed to be a big draw point for building Red as a Mage.

Asherdoom · « **Reply #8724 on:** 2019-11-25 09:43:23 »

i have to post a perplexity i got: I just have CID in my party (finished rocket town) and now he got his basic standard spear equipped. Each time he attacks in battle the screen flashes like hes critting even if he misses an attack. Does he have a built in deathblow? :/ he does always crit or miss attacks, never plain basic damage.