Messages

26

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)

« on: 2014-10-09 10:54:10 »

I haven't tried this version yet (and god knows how depressing that is for me), but you can try to poison them and play turtle. Poison+All, wait until the dog thing dies and then go offence with Bio, although limit breaks could easily do him. Sadness can also help.

27

FF7 Tools / Re: [FF7PC/PSX] Shop Editor - White Chocobo (v0.7b)

« on: 2014-08-02 16:21:42 »

Thank you so much, Vgr 

28

FF7 Tools / Re: [FF7PC/PSX] Shop Editor - White Chocobo (v0.7b)

« on: 2014-08-02 13:52:14 »

I'm afraid both links are down. Does anybody have this? I tried searching in the web, but found nothing.

29

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-31 15:25:13 »

Well, as for Corel, I do believe that the train was only meant to crash into the village because we kind of killed the driver and the whole crew in the process... And don't forget that it was because of Cloud that the weapons were set loose and killed a few dozens of thousands of people...

The only party member that accomplishes something in all this is the dead one. So the moral of the story is: the people who f*uck up live and the poor flower girl who saved us all got killed.

Jesus christ, this game is even more depressing than what I remember...

Btw, jesus christ, Big Gay Al, cross dressing, Drag, Buffalo Bill (I'm so sad that nobody got this joke)... There seems to be a lot of flower themes coming up lately...

But in all seriousness, I wish we could skip the whole dressing scene. Its the most embarrassing thing I ever did in a video game... Imagine me having to explain this to my friends who were into football games and fighters back then... No wonder the bullies didn't even tried to beat me.

"Mistakes were made, but it all worked out in the end." - Thats what Bill Clinton said [Insert scene showing Horatio Caine putting on his glasses and Won't Get Fooled Again playing loudly with Roger Daltrey saying YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!]

30

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-31 14:23:48 »

Well, actually, since you're struggling with some bosses, I decided to leave a save before every boss or fixed fight in this playthrough, so I can be a test dummy if you want to try changing something.

And by the way, if you managed to let us skip the drag dressing and the harem part in Midgar, I'll marry you. I swear my soul dies a little every time I have to do that crap. But then again, Cloud IS Buffalo Bill's clone, so what else would he do? God damn crazy people. FF7 could be over in 5 minutes if we had the in-game option to buy Lithium or some other happy pills for Cloud and Buffalo Bill. Anthrax comes to mind: "Its a mad house!"

31

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-31 09:40:29 »

Three Things:

1. Devil's Gate... that was just challenging. I ended up winning by using Cloud's Yoshiyuki with both allies down, then once I took out the first half (how lucky idk) I revived everyone.

2. Aeris' Death Scene... Lol I was expecting some big explanation or something exciting... nope just a phoenix down LOL.

3. The 2nd Jenova.... Ummm I lost this fight, but I still won? Idk. What the hell is with that? Also if I had actually killed that thing would I have gotten any bonuses

BONUS THING: I forgot to let the clock knock me down to the bottom at the temple of the ancients... what did I miss?

Jenova was like that in the previous version of the mod. The one up right now deals with that, as I understand.

Oh, and you missed the Nail Bat. Which was almost the same as in the original game, only with a damage modifier based on how many kills you have on Cloud. Still no materia slot though...


@ Sega Chief

About defense, I wasn't saying "broken" like it didn't work, but rather as useless. Having a 100 def armor or a 0 has little impact on damage. Other FFs did this a lot better (the early ones, 9 and 12 come to mind).

What I hate about Mime is that it goes around game's limitations. Mime + KOTR is one of the most broken strategies in the original game. But spamming limit breaks through Mime is even worse! Mime has its uses, but they're always about someone doing something that they wouldn't be able to otherwise, and while I get the appeal, it detracts too much from strategy for my taste.

I knew the balance thing was going to bite me in the grapes... By balance I meant certain aspects of the game's progression. If you know what to do and where to go, you'll leave disc on at late 30s or early 40s, disc two at early 50s and finish disc three at 60, give or take. You'll get level 2 spells before Corel and level three before the Crater or before Junon. By balance I meant the exp, AP and damage progressions. Of course since we're all about meta-gaming we didn't noticed this things anymore.

And about the chocobos, I don't mind it that much. Its necessary to get GP to fight at the Arena, get the four materia, besides the rewards from the races, which some are really interesting, like Magic Counter (another very interesting materia that comes way too late to have much use), Counter, Counter Attack, Sprint Shoes, Cat's Bell (useless, but meh), Precious Watch, Sneak Attack and something else I'm missing. Yeah, it takes a few hours, but the rewards are worth it. I just hate the breeding part. But hell will freeze over if I'm gonna fight Ruby before getting my giant golden chicken.

As for difficulty, thats a complex concept. There are some aspects in gaming that developers tend to ignore a little:

- There are games that mostly rely on preparation, being the tactical RPGs the perfect example of this. Your mod has an heavy focus on this aspect, as some fights are barely winnable if you don't have the right accessories;

- Then there are games that require strategy, meaning that you'll have to adapt and create something on the spot in order to beat the enemies. This is more classical to RPGs. Your mod has some fights like that, when you can't just raw damage.

- In both cases, there's always a third way: leveling up. For example, Jenova Birth is pretty strong. But its not like its invincible, even for a low level party. But if you're not too hot about putting people with sadness, back row, casting Barrier and having someone healing (Aeris and Yuffie would do wonders here), you can always gain two or three levels and get past it.

The thing is that in some games it doesn't really matter how leveled you are. If you don't have the right equipment or a solid strategy you're done for. This is not the case however, and you can always try having this in mind: why people die. Is it because they aren't really interested in strategy and rather blazing through fights? If so, then its their problem. If people like to blaze through they have that option. its just a matter of gaining 5 or 10 levels and everything will be much easier. It may break the fun, but its their choice. But for the rest of the guys who are really into meta-gaming and strategical thinking, leveling up is not our first choice, but rather something that happens in the process. The problem before was that leveling was destroying the need for strategy. But if people are loosing even with preparation and solid strategies, than maybe the fight is a little rigged.

As for speed, initially I was afraid of the higher AP requirements for materia. But after playing through the Crater I realized that with all the Triple equipment and the boosted AP from fights it would be very easy to master materia. Maybe even too easy? I fought the Movers and got enough AP to buy a house on the Bahamas and I wasn't even on Double or Triple AP mode.


Oh, btw, and for the report I mentioned, I was thinking more about doing that by PM. Since it will contain what I wrote for the guide so far and all, so putting it here would be mass flooding... More than I already do.


PS: and the metaphors are payback for what you did with Yellow M-Phone, W-Item and Full-Cure. You're a cold guy, dude.

32

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-31 00:43:19 »

Now while I can see the Extra Battle item requirements being time-consuming (considering the dire steal rates of the previous version) I'm not sure how the Lv.4 Limit sidequests could be considered time consuming. It's basically go to X, fight Y, get Z, with clues for where to go coming from the new crewman on the Highwind. Unless these sidequests aren't triggering and can't be found (there was a flaw in the Regular Music flevel that turned these sidequests to 'completed'; an NPC on the Highwind can fix this problem). Do you mean the boss related to each sidequest was time-consuming?

Its funny that you changed Carry Armor's, as it was the hardest boss I fough since Jenova Birth. The thing killed me a dozen times

Actually, I didn't try to get the lvl4 limits or the ultimate weapons. It would take time, no matter how little, and I don't need them. I''m doing 3000 a hit at level 70 and killing bosses with two limit breaks (and this is with Barret and Cid, both at level 70. Cloud is at level 82). Why do I need more firepower? To fight bigger bosses who reward me with even more firepower? I had assumed that ultimate weapons were necessary to finish the game or beat the weapons, but it appears not. Actually, I was afraid it might make things even easier than they were already, so I just kept using what I had.

The Armor and Accessory changes were trying to fix things up and make more things useful (Star Pendants used to be made completely obsolete by Fairy Rings, for instance, while Ribbons make everything obsolete but are available fairly early in the game). You mentioned in your lists that you didn't like how different armors were but found the equipment set-up options are interesting. It might be that I need to make some alterations to make high-end armor more useful again (the Mystile/Aegis Armlet nerfs probably weren't too popular). I might try to bring things a little closer to what they were, rein in the changes here before they become unrecognizable.

Precisely. While the three elemental armors were interesting (plus the Adamant), there was never a battle were I was being hurt by water, lightning, fire or ice to the point that I had to use defensive equipment. And since the defense and mdefense formulas in FF7 are broken, the only thing that matters in armors is the stat boost they give and the materia slots. Sure, Crystal has the best values for mid disc 2, but there's no Str or Mag stat boost... And only 6 slots. So Edincoat or Wizard it is. Mystile has 75 M. Evade. Cool. 6 slots without growth, and zero defenses and evade... Meh... Edincoat or Wizard again. But remember that you have some armors that are absolutely useless (Shinra Alpha and Beta). You can use those to create completely different armors to fit any role you can think of.

A bit of advice: if you're gonna make version 1.2 thinking about a  NG+, leave the Ziedrich as a 8 slot armor, with its currents status and some evade. It might seem broken, but you could make it one of the final quests: if you got the things, good. If you didn't, you would regret it... Besides, they can't be more broken that the ultimate weapons... Just have some super boss trio have them. Or if the NG+ follows the battle with Buffalo Bill have him drop the three things. Or maybe just one, so that there's some replayability (one Ribbon and one Ziedrich per run). But I would advise you to increase the materia limit to 250 or 300. Having multiple playthroughs might produce too many shiny rocks and we don't have Lara Croft's backpack with us... Also, if you want players to do multiple runs, have something waiting for them. Maybe some bosses that are only playable the second time? A very slow leveling process (if you think is difficult to balance the difficulty curve, try making a game design for players to go from lvl 1 to lvl 40. That pretty much ends the balancing issues, as it will be MUCH more easier for you to point how players will be doing). Otherwise, you can do something old RPGs did two decades ago: after NG+ have players start at lvl 1 but with increased stats, corresponding to a certain % of their stats at the end of the game. This way players could level to 99, start again and have some reasons to play. Maybe after two or three runs they had the equip and stats necessary to beat those super bosses that were waiting... Just food for thought

And finally, I really think you should do something more interesting with Fort Condor. Why not have a note pop up whenever there's a battle? If you give players interesting prizes and a custom boss fight (might just be a palette swap enemy from later in the game and a HP boost) to justify backtracking all the way there it might be more interesting. And if so, please make the battles more engaging, so that they're actually challenging and worth the items. This way you could give players access to armors, accessories that they would otherwise get on disc 2.

And I'll start the new version of the mod tomorrow. I'll also be writing the small guide we talked yesterday. I'll be sending you the daily progress, along with timestamps and other useful information, so that you can suggest some things I missed and check my progress and overall progress (like the levels, max AP got, Gil, hours played and relevant notes). Just keep in mind that I won't stop for training unless I'm completely hopeless before a boss, won't grind kills for limits, won't train for gil or anything like that. But I'll fight some enemies to steal armors. I also won't be using double AP equip, unless those weapons are the best available. This will almost be a speed run.



And I apologize in advance if this will sounds too harsh or unfair, but I feel like I have to explain myself and point where I'm coming from:

I understand the concept of not wanting to give players access to powerful stuff too easily. I really do. Its a way to make them appreciate what they have and learn to use it rather than just giving them the powerful stuff early on. I'm ok with that. But if getting the powerful stuff is delayed too much and involves a lot of busywork, they will just become boring. The way I see it: I can spend 5 hours running around collecting the items and fighting at the arena to get those things OR I can get to the Crater, fight some things, level to 99 (which by itself would take two hours at best), master all the materia I can, and after that those precious materia would stop being useful because my regular attack would hit for more damage (and thank god I already spent 5 hours running with Chocobos and trying to get my golden bird just to learn that I can't get Zeio nuts before god knows how many hours of grinding and fighting and therefore have enough GP for dozens of arena fights).

I like the Chocobo racing mini game. But after 15 years doing it, its kind of old... I know some people like to breed the birds and get their 176 MPH Speedy Gonzalez chocobo, but for me, its just busy work to get four materias, from which only one of them really matters to me: Quadramagic. HP/MP is utterly useless, KOTR is broken and Mime is either broken or useless. Even after breeding the giant chickens (which takes a couple of hours if you know what you're doing) having to fight bosses to get these materia? Meh... Its like I have to do some busy work, in order to do some more busy work, to finally get the materia. The three bosses were interesting, don't get me wrong. Except for the king squirrel thing that was pretty much unbeatable until I pumped the Str and dropped three lvl3 limit breaks on it, killing it before it could spam pearless like a meteor was coming or something.

As for the weapons, beating Emerald or Ruby to get Morph to get the Golden Chocobo? Sorry, but I don't want to spend 20 hours worth of grinding just to get Morph or the golden chicken so I can get an utterly broken materia which I'll have barely anyone to test it on...

The problem of changing exp and AP (both from battles and required to level materia) is that it leads to an unbalance in the gameplay. The same could happen if the enemies gave less exp, but then you could always level up, while the contrary can't be done. The advantage in playing a low level game (and I say this loosely) is that it makes you come up with effective strategies to overcome difficult enemies. If hitting bosses and regular enemies in the head is your most reliable solution, then something is not right and this is what's happening. Why do I need to come up with strategies and exploit status and elemental weaknesses on monsters and bosses if my lvl 65 Cloud could kill the bosses with regular attacks, before even getting the Highwind? After that it only became worse. If I'll hit 99 before even getting half of the game quests done, what will be the reward then? Something that no longer has any use? Its like crossing hell just to find a fire extinguisher.


Yeah, its fun to have an array of spells to cast. But its more practical to remove most of them, leaving Restore, Barrier, Time, Heal and Revive, allowing for more HP n order to whack things in the head with swords longer before healing. And if we don't use magic, the extra MP and Magic stat points added by the magic materia also become useless. We rather need Strength and HP. Some times it doesn't work so well, but if there's something I need at the moment, Enemy Skill is there for that: improvising.

Sure, magic works fine in the first disc, except for MP being more abundant than bananas in Ecuador - I just realized that I've just beaten the game without ever using one Ether and still having 6 Tents from the 20 I bought on disc 1... Disc 2 and 3 become a slash fest, just like a bad horror movie. Its just like the Scream movies...

The moral here is that while the mod has improved many aspects of the game, it is more unbalanced than the original, because the changed values of AP, exp and MP required to cast spells have created a counter-productive effect and thats a problem. I don't want to sound unfair or anything, but if those values were like they used to be in the original game, the mod would be more balanced. I'm not suggesting they should be like they were originally, but rather that the balance problem was something created when it didn't existed in the beginning, which, by all logic, points toward a posteriori problem.

I know that the intention behind this was making the players level faster and make magic more appealing. But ironically, those two objectives aren't possible at the same time, because after level 60 magic starts becoming less powerful compared to regular attacks. And this only gets worst as the damage formula for regular attacks

33

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-30 22:29:29 »

Well, finished disc 2, and here's the feedback:

There was a huge drop in difficulty from disc 1. Bosses remain interesting and challenging. But random fights weren't even menacing. The disc flew like a breeze. Cloud ended the disc at level 76. Ultimate Weapon really needs more HP. Big Brawl and Meteor Rain nearly killed it. I had to use and Elixir on it to keep stealing items... It disappointed me. Diamond also could use more firepower, as it was the easiest boss of the second disc.

As for disc 3 (which is nearly finished), I must admit I felt like not having enough firepower against the enemies at Northern Crater. They didn't pose much of a challenge, but took a lot to kill. Magic lost its uses and physical hits do more damage, more easily. Only defensive and support spells matter. Elemental materia only waste space and HP. Since my party is at high 70s, I think removing Contain, Ultima and Pandora's Box from their usual locations really hurt the game, as lvl 3 elemental spells don't cut it anymore. Magic Breath was also powered down to the point where its useless. And by the time we get these materia we won't have anyone to use them anymore (excpet for the some few bosses).

I know this is an old debate, but if an effective Quake 3 deals 3500 with 40+ Mag from accessory and armor, while a regular attack does 3000 without Str boosting, I'll stay with the attack. I reckon this is due to level modifier for damage affection attack damage more than magic damage.

I cleared three of the materia caves, don't have Morph and still don't know where to get Contain, Ultima, Full Cure, Final Attack, Morph, W-Item, W-Magic, W-Summon, Counterattack, Double Attack, Shield, Long Range and Added Cut. Did I miss something?


Final thoughts: the mod is surprisingly well done. Even Aeris feels alive, although maybe a little cheery. The bosses were much more interesting and worthwhile. The equipment was also modified interestingly.

Things I disliked:
- Some materia being so difficult and time consuming to get that I ended up just giving up on them;
- I didn't managed to get a single ultimate weapon or lvl 4 limit for the same reason: too time consuming;
- Summons are even less useful than in the original game;
- I still don't have seven enemy skills. I know some of them are carried by extra bosses and stuff, but if I have to wait all that time to get them, what will the be useful for? Couldn't they have been put in some monsters along the game? Maybe and the Sunken Plane or Northern Crater? Its not like Big Guard or Angel Whisper are gonna break the experience after the weapons are already beaten.

Things I hated:
- Leveling up every four or five fights;
- Too many materia being out of place;
- Some high end armor and accessories having been completely changed or moved. Basically I used only two armors the entire game: Endicoat and Wizard Bangle.

Things I liked:
- Being able to skip many boring scenes;
- Additional bosses and fights;
- Better and more challenging boss fights overall;
- Interesting equipment set up options;
- Being able to have Aeris after disc 1;
- The new save points (only wish there were some more at Northen Crater);
- The option to re-fight old bosses.


Thats all I can't think of. I'll now start playing the new version. I'm eager to see the new modifications.

34

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-30 15:48:24 »

I'm releasing the update today (about to post the links) but to get things tight like Midgar I'd need to put a new team together and play through the game again. I'll be doing that for the v1.2 release which is adding in new features and preparing for the NG+ expansion; it'd be a good idea if I had a team ready to test the NG+, because I want the fights for that to be quite hard and keep the curve going. For now, I'm going to be working on putting 1.2 together and then I'll start a test-play of it, adding more stuff as I go.

I'm finishing disc 2 right now. Just fooling around with chocobos first. I can help test the new version or the NG+. Since I'll need to start a new game for the guide, might as well wait for the 1.2 version.

I think you've missed the question, but is there any change to the exp earn from battles? Will characters still level up as easily?

35

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-30 09:44:01 »

IS it just me or is it taking me a really long time to level up my limit breaks?

I'm at Cosmo and I JUST got Blade Beam for Cloud.

No, but since the enemies take longer to kill its natural that limits will come later. I got my lvl 2 limits not long before that, so don't worry.

Probably not, but Rising Suns are available en-masse in a pack of 40 (part of Edge's Throwing Set, one of the randomly selected Mystery Prizes available from Battle Square in place of W-Summon) so it's no biggie. I'll maybe give Diamond something more interesting as a Steal/Drop though.

Update got delayed slightly because I figured out a way to merge both flevels and make music behaviour an in-game option. That cuts down on the amount of work/risk supporting two flevels and simplifies things going into a 7H version. As far as it goes, this update is more or less done but I was trying to test battles to make tweaks; it's not been easy, I need to set some time aside and play the mod start to finish to get a proper team that can give proper feedback. For now though, enemies were pushed up from the Temple onwards; a healthy level and speed increase with some defence, HP, and attack tweaks. But let me know if the standard enemy formations are too much to handle (damage-wise) and/or if bosses are unmanageable.

I also went ahead and changed Ultimate Weapons too; I've got a plan for them going into NG+ but at the moment they're being squared against the other high level weapons. For the most part, characters each have a weapon that:

-) Vit/Spr: +50
-) Mag: +30
-) Dex/Luck +50 (Ultimate Weapons)

This'll likely be changed soon, but for now it seems to have a nice balance. The Luck boost might be broken a bit on Cait Sith, though (if Luck Plus is used).

If I understand correctly, you'll first play through the mod before releasing it? That may take a while. And about the exp, have you changed the values so we won't level as fast?

36

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-29 22:47:23 »

It isn't on the same place as it was originally? I found it there.


Btw, Chief, I found two Raising Sun's, one dropped by Diamond and the other at the Sunken Plane. Was this planned?

And any news when the new patch is coming?

37

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-29 00:10:19 »

So, I just cleared out disc 1. Here are my thoughts:


Midgar section is masterfully done.

From Midgar to Junon things are OK. Magic becomes a little underpowered here. Jenova is a challenge, but a good one.

From Costa Del Sol to Corel things are easier than expected. Spells here become almost useless, as they cannot keep up with physical attacks. A boss in Mt. Corel would be nice.

From Gold Saucer to Cosmo Cannon things go smooth. Reno and Rude could have a little more HP. Finally some lvl 2 spells. The Cosmo Cannon section is too easy, as lvl 2 spells level the competition.

Nibelheim and Mt. Nibel were not bad. I'd power up the three guys at the entrance of Shinra Mansion, as they are as easy as a random encounter.

Rocket Town and the Temple of the Ancients were also more easy than expected. The dragon was a pushover. The Demon Wall was most challenging boss since Jenova. Got killed by Beta tough. I didn't saw it coming and hitting for 1500 damage

Yuffie's sequence was surprisingly easy. Rapps was easier than pretty much all random encounters.

Jenofa was the most broken fight ever. I have no clue to how the thing can be killed. I gave up after a dozen game over screens. And while I don't give up much, I got tired of seeing Aeris being impaled with a 5 foot sword by a man who suffers from Buffalo Bill's complex...


As for the whole experience: the mod starts great and kind of dies after Junon. Since levels are earned so fast that kind of takes the edge of make the enemies harder. Also lvl 2 spells felt too cheap. At level 50 Cloud had more than 500 MP, meaning he could cast 34 lvl 2 spells per battle. That's pretty much insane. Takes the challenge out of it. The bosses also stopped posing a challenge after Jenova, Demon Wall being the exception. Gi Nattack was interesting.


My final thoughts: leveling too fast is killing the challenge. I left disc one with Cloud at 55 and I never stopped for leveling up. Summons are too weak. Magic is too cheap. After Junon the mod actually becomes as easy as the original game, mainly because the party is 10 levels above what they would be and spells are cheaper to cast. From Nibelheim onward it just becomes easier than vanilla. I left disc one 15 levels above what I usually do in vanilla.

Now I'm just waiting for the fix to fight Lost Number.


PS: There are two Superballs dropped. The first I don't remember where, but the second is at the fourth fight in Fort Condor.

38

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-28 14:34:52 »

Thanks, I'll go beat it now.

And Fort Condor still drops the Magic Comb as the first prize and the Peace(?) Ring as the third prize. The others I don't remember in which order. X-Potion and Megaelixir amongst them. I was just trying to get the Superball, but that must have been moved too.

Oh, and I can help you with the guide, Chief. I already wrote a published FF7 guide, amongst guides for other RPGs. I also like to write Unless you have enough spare time and really want to do it.

Btw, what happend to the Great Gospel?

39

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-28 10:44:40 »

Actually, there's a Zemzlet alike thing in Mt. Nibel that uses Trine. Just got killed by it a while ago. The thing cast two of those things and Cure 2 couldn't handle it. And I think that the 8 Eyes in the Temple of the Ancients uses Roulette.

Anyway, what I really wanted to ask you is if there was a way to easily make enemies give much less experience or characters level slower. Maybe you could make a separate version, if its not too much trouble, for those who feel that they're leveling too much. Right now, the mod's challenge has died. The enemies don't even pose a treat anymore. Being at level 44 just after getting Cid pretty much nulls the increase in difficulty.

Also, is there any news on Lambda? I really wanted to get Odin


Oh, and regarding the fort battles, if you do change the items, please tell us to what, since I only fight for the useful ones. I'm afraid I don't quite have the time to track back the fight all of them. And if you upped the enemies it wouldn't be a bad idea... Or putting a special boss at the last fight, even after the enemies were defeated (with the Imperial Guard dropped, of course).

40

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-28 00:11:44 »

As for bosses, my last experience with Gi Nattack proved very interesting. Ifrit and Ramuh barely did 800 each, used by Cloud and RedXIII at level 34. Even if they had hit 2000 each, plus 2000 from Shiva, it would have only taken 50% of its HP. And for them to take that much would require a HUGE power boost.

But you can boost the bosses HP counting on summons. For instance, if you know that Bahamut will hit for 3000 at level 45 (the level I estimate I'll be when I get it), its just a matter of adding 3000 plus to every boss. Same for Odin and Leviathan (the three strongest summons from disc 1, except Kjata, since it can barely be used before the end of the disc).

If you're considering doing a test playthrough, there's something that puzzles me: why do we start the game at level 6? In FF7 we gain levels like there's no tomorrow. I'm at Shinra's Mansion right now and every tree fights I'm leveling up. Its insane. I'll leave disc 1 at 50 without even training. If things keep going like this I'll have to start running from battles, as I'm getting over-leveled and the bosses are getting easier.

Since this mod has higher HP, MP and stats, why not make the exp lesser than in vanilla? I can imagine beating the first disc at level 30. But that could require HP Plus...


Anyway, what Enemy Skills can be found on the first disc? So far I've found:

Matra Magic, L4 Suicide, Flame Thrower, White Wind, Death Sentence, Frog Song, ?
I'm also counting on getting Death Force, Magic Hammer and Roulette.

Did I forget one?

And is Midgar Zolom worth fighting, or is just a challenge?

Have the prizes at the end of Fort Condor's battles been altered? If so, what are they now? And why not a fight at the end of each Fort Condor's battle?


The Scorpion boss before Dyne is at level 24... L 4 Suicide makes short work of it. And even without it its too easy. Perhaps some steroids are in order?

41

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-27 23:47:48 »

Yeah I do agree the steal rates are pretty bad. Crazy bad if you're doing a low level or no exp run. But I think magic becomes really important once your past Midgar, especially when they reach their next tiers. I'm doing a no exp run, and Cloud, combined with earring and four slots, can do 700-900 damage with fire 2 . You'll notice that magic will be amped and  useful when they level.
I've been using magic pretty much the entire game, and started relying a little bit more on physical attacks when I started getting late game weapons,ultimate weapons, etc.
Some good combos I like: Mp Turbo + Earth (3rd tier can do 6k-9999), and Comet + MP Turbo (capable of doing 10k+ ). I also use regen and time, every boss battle. Just depends on your play style: if you want to focus more on melee, you'll have to rely strength+ equipment to decent damage.  Another thing about magic, spells like sleep, mini, confuse, etc have 100% chance to hit.

About summoning.. don't have a solid opinion on it because I haven't been using it. I think I'll start using it more with my no exp run because they are capable of doing negative status effects. Down side is they can only be used once per battle.

I do agreed with you. My concern is mainly with level 1 spells. Level 2 may even be overpowered, considering their cost.

42

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-27 22:46:20 »

Thanks for the reply.

Actually, from what I've tested so far (I'm at Cosmo Cannon), only lvl1 spells are rather weak. Lvl 2 spells are overpowered. At level 33, a regular attack deals 250 to 300 dmg, while a spell can hit for 1000. While this makes sense, having spells cost so few MP makes it possible to spam 18 lvl 2 spells. I understand how difficult must be to balance attacks/magic, but right now, lvl 2 spells are way more powerful than they should be, considering their cost. If this was the case that spells were expensive, it would make perfect sense. But being so powerful while cheap, it kind of breaks the mechanics, as I haven't fought a single boss fight since Jenova that even let me use 1/4 of the MP. Maybe the bosses have low HP?

As for the levels, they are indeed to high, I must say. I must confess I don't see the point in making the characters level out faster. The original game could be breezed through with a level 50 party, and I usually level disc 1 at those levels, because I end up leveling too much trying to get AP. I would suggest lowering the exp earned, while maintaining the AP.

Regarding the AP required to level the green materia, mine hit lvl 2 after Corel. Thats late, specially considering that I had double growth equipment on since Costa Del Sol. I reckon 4500 or 5000 AP to lvl 2 would be enough, assuming you expect materia to hit lvl 2 around the same point as they do in vanilla.

On another level, summons are just not worth using. Against a single target, Ifrit dealt 1134 and Fire 2 1296. Against several enemies Ifrit dealt 530 and Fire 2 420. Considering that Fire 2 costs 15MP and Ifrit 34, its pretty safe to say that Ifrit its just not worth the extra materia slot. And the same could be said about all the other summons until Titan. Their base attack power is just too low. Mostly because they can only be used once. They should be like heavy artillery and not less useful than a limit break or a lvl 2 spell.


PS: and you were right, the fight was against the Scorpion. But even against regular enemies, spells did only twice the regular attack worth of damage. After Kalm spells are barely effective, and before Junon they deal almost as much as an attack.

43

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-27 20:53:10 »

Hey Chief, could you give me some clarifications on the two issues I raised above please? I lvl 30 at Gongaga and I feel like I'm 10 levels above what I normally would.

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Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-27 11:45:24 »

Regarding the Shinra Building:

Regarding the new boss (whose tail I loved): I had to make 23 steal attempts, with a character thats level 16, to successfully steal the item from the level 12 Grunt. Its kind of absurd how low the success rate of steal was in this case. Another thing was how useless magic was in the battle. A Bolt dealt 86 damage. A regular attack 49. A Ice or Fire dealt 57... Even if the thing is not weak to Fire or Ice it should have dealt more than that. Otherwise it was like I said before and magic becomes rather useless. Its good when the monsters are weak to it, but otherwise its better off to whack it in the head with a blunt object, and characters like Aeris and Caith Sith, who are more magic oriented, become less useful.

Another thing that puzzled me was that Cloud is level 20 and I didn't grind at all. I always though it was too easy to level up in the original game, but here its even faster. I don't know if this is intentional and if you wanted players to level up faster, but I fear that at this rate, I might hit 50 or 60 before the end of the disc.

Can you address these two questions for me please, Sega Chief?

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Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-26 15:14:40 »

Yes, you're indeed right about the barriers. I had forgotten about the summon wait thing. Nevertheless, even with wait ATB barriers go down too quick. I was always a complaint of mine. In other FFs this was done better.

And regarding the update that will fix the AP for levels, will that change the amount of AP earned or the AP required to level up? I'm here rooting for the second

46

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-26 09:06:42 »

Coin tosses are underrated

Still about Beta, Trine and Aqualung: If Beta's attack power is 3 3,375 x base, Fire2 1,25 x base and Fire3 4 x base, then you could reduce Beta to 1 or something like that. It would still be stronger against multi targets than a regular Fire 2, plus non reflectable. But raising its MP cost would make up for it. That way Beta would only be useful against multiple enemies, falling behind Fire2.

The same could be done but with Fire3 if you think Beta's more suited to fill the gap between Fire2 and 3. But you would have to power up the hell's snake so it would only be beatable by the end of the disc (give or take).

But getting back to the barriers, is there a way to increase their duration? One of the best combos I can think of is pairing Sneak Attack with Wall. But if Wall lasts less than a Summon animation... Well, there's just no point to it.

47

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-25 23:12:47 »

You're right, level is a big influence on damage calculation (I've been running a Lv.1 challenge on and off, even with 150+ attack I can still barely do 75 damage). Assuming the damage difference between Lv.30 and Lv.50 is high enough that could cover the Disc 2 problem I've been having. I'll have to experiment with it first, it's a big step to make a change like that and takes time to implement. Just worried I might cut off players who aren't as experienced or who didn't fight a lot of encounters. Less EXP = tougher to recover.

The thing is, even if the player was lazy during first disc and skipped many fights, making the party avg level stay at a low 27, the exp difference from the second disc encounters would easily make them catch up. But this is exactly the point: fighting a lot in the first disc might not grand much experience, but it would grant AP. So what if a player gets lvl3 spells in the first disc? I did it a few times. Its quite easy with double AP equip while fighting the monsters in Junon or Mideel. But while getting high level materia this early might seem "broken", remember that the HP and MP would still be low and the level multiplier would reduce the damage. This is though to test, I know, but try using Black Chocobo to edit saves. Try fighting the same monsters with different levels, weapons, materia and stats, so you can conceive a balanced approach.

Yeah, physical hits greatly out-power magic in terms of speed later in the game. I boosted spells a little, but because the Ultimate Weapons are fairly easy to get it pretty much kills the mod dead on Disc 3. I knew it would, but I didn't feel comfortable nerfing those weapons when people had earned them from a boss fight. The current planned solution is to move them to another set of content that's much harder than the current ones; that way I've got an excuse to make some new stuff for it (which makes up for, y'know, moving them). I considered the Death Penalty thing for a bit but they'd be hitting for paltry damage when acquired which wouldn't have gone across too well.

That was my first thought "why not make the final weapons harder to find?", but the result is the same: when you get them = no more spells. I don't know how the limitations on the hex behind the damage formulas and multipliers, I assume that they follow a ordinary hex pattern. So the max attack a weapon can have should be 255. If so, why not make the final weapons have attack stat above 100, while removing the damage multiplier, or at least trading it for another more subtle (Death Penalty, for example, which could work wonders with break damage limit).

That way players could still deal high magic damage against enemies (who would have much higher defense than magical defense) with a W-Magic or Quadramagic high level spell, while a single attack would do much less - and that should be the point. A punch to the face shouldn't hurt more than getting hit with half a dozen meteorites! This is offset by MP cost and practicability, but the game never makes us run out of MP. I don't know if you ever player Dungeon and Dragons, but that game had one thing that console RPGs never had: it made you appreciate magic. Your mage could only use half a dozen spells before drying and each one counted. Of course they hit hard and that should be the point. You shouldn't be able to cast 6 or 7 Ultimas in a single battle. But each one should hurt like the holy hell. But MP Absorb, Ethers and Magic Hammer pretty much make this pointless.

Another example: you certainly know how in FF8 nobody uses magic. Its more useful to have 100 spells junctioned to attributes than casting spells. So everybody goes on linking 100 Meteor or Ultima to STR and hitting everything with swords. But how many people have actually tried to cast Meteor with 255 MAG while on Triple? No attack can beat that. Its slow, sure. But specially if Rinoa uses this with Angel Wings... Well, 10 x 3000 x 3... It beats pretty much all limits, except for Zell's (which its a lot of busywork).

Some other thoughts:

EXP Plus in Aeris's garden is just random. Gil Plus would have been much more interesting, specially if this is the kind of mod where weapons, materia and items are expensive and can't be bought mindlessly. Also, since potions are now so much more useful, shouldn't their price increase? Same goes for tents, as they are too cheap (maybe allowing them to resurrect and heal status to justify the increased price). Or maybe having them stop recovering MP. This would certainly make magic much more interesting. Right now you can't really boost it much more, because Ethers are cheap and Tents are cheaper. So casting spells is no big deal. But if you could only recover MP with Inns or Ethers, it would make having powered spells more expensive worthwhile.

Also, some old RPGs used to have optional enemies drop items that you would only be able to buy much later, but were very tough enemies that required much preparation and tactics. Why not try this in order to give players the option of getting useful materia early on (Like Sneak Attack, Magic Counter, etc)? Of course the bosses would need to be identified or close to a save point, so that players don't get bad surprises. Or make them possible to flee.

Another idea is to have some bosses be stronger than the usual ones. In some games there are two kinds of boss themes: the regular and the "of sh!t". The song that plays when Sapphire attacks Junon would sound great against some powerful bosses.

And as for what gamers might like or dislike if you mess with the game too much, well, most people don't like big changes. The only console RPG I know that has a great hard and very hard mode is Star Ocean 2. On VH you die a lot, but since the gameplay is the greatest of its kind when it comes to customizing and planning, a seasoned player can overcome the difficulty and eventually beat the game. Not that it makes them less likely to die 100 times... But thats expected. And thats the key: people don't mind about things they're expecting. You can change the power of things or make them a little different, as long as they know them.

Personally I wouldn't have moved Beta, Aqualung and Trine. I would have make them stronger than lvl2 spells, considerably weaker than lvl 3, but with the usual advantage: multi hitting without All. People wouldn't mind that as much. As for the other huge Enemy Skills, Angel Whisper stays pretty much the same. White Wind is overpowered, but it will always be. Its the only way offensive characters can heal effectively (at least I don't have Restore on the three party members). It might be great, but it might also be crap. Depends on the user's HP. Boosting its cost to where it would stay between Cure 2 and 3 would be interesting, as Cure 3 should heal around 4K with the power boost. No character should have that much HP by the time you get Cure 3. That makes White Wind not as useful (except for the status healing thing). Big Guard is interesting, but it would be more so if you could change the duration of barriers depending on the source. For instance, Wall should last a lot longer tha the usual Barrier. And Big Guard should last a minute or so. Otherwise you can let it be like it was on the original game and target only the caster, for an high MP cost (Haste + Wall in one go). Anyway, people only use it for the haste. Barriers go away too fast. Thats why Protect Rings are worthless.

Cheers, I'll maybe throw some alpha material your way if I need a second opinion on something. But...how did you know I was a Rangers fan? D:

Please... Like there are many people from Glasgow who don't go nuts for the Rangers

48

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-25 21:45:34 »

Thanks for the answer. I don't mind reading long posts as long as they say something. And I sure loved to know what your approach was.

From what I've read I can pretty much applaud your efforts. But having yet to play the mod extensively, I can not tell you much. What I can say however is that if you're having trouble finding when should X materia level up, just try to force it. For example: people usually get lvl2 spells before Corel. If you think this should be the appropriate place, have the enemies until then give out little AP, so that the materia should hardly level up, unless there's some serious grinding involved (a few hours perhaps), and then, around Corel, have enemies granting a lot more AP. Like instead of giving out 10 or 20 a battle have them give 70 or 80.

Back in the days a lot of RPGs did that. They used a system called "frontier bosses". Enemies that you would have to fight before progressing and that were faced in areas that you could go back from and shop or rest if needed (no entrapment). In this case, imagine that when you were expecting players to reach lvl2 spells before Junon. So? You would make the damn serpent thing a lot harder, so that Fire 2 would be needed (that and have it be immune to poison). That way players would have to train to get AP.

But considering the damage output and how you're having difficulties balancing it out by the end of the game, if I understand the damage mechanics correctly, most thinks rely on the characters level to determine damage, correct? Then its quite easy: considerably lower the EXP values of all encounters, and let the AP untouched. That way players will still have access to high level spells but they won't deal much damage because the level multiplier is too low. Fighting Jenove Life with a level 30 party should be interesting. It would drastically change the gameplay, however, as pure attacking would become ratter useless (unless your reduced significantly the enemy's defense and raised magic defense). It would certainly make the game more materia oriented. Therefore maybe more slots on equipment? Or more materia avaliable that would be otherwise unattainable until disc 2?

Just some brainstorming. But if you're trying to push for a strategic type of gameplay, more materia and less physical is the way to go. I always disliked how the materia system had so much potential and by the time you got the really good stuff it would just be plain easier to spam attacks... Sure, W-Magic Quadramagic Comet 2 is great! But by the time you had cast 8 Comet 2 you could have spammed 30 attacks.

Therefore, it might be interesting to null or greatly reduce the ultimate weapons multipliers, so that only a character with 255 str and 255 luck can inflict 9999. That or have enemies with pornographic amounts of HP and have a break 9999 cap thing in the mod. Other interesting idea would be having all final weapons use the Death Penalty multiplier, so that you needed to use them for a LONG time before they become overpowered. And by that time, most materia would have reached master anyway.

If you need crash dummies let me know. I've been doing this since Celtic was kicking Ranger's arse

49

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)

« on: 2014-07-25 19:29:31 »

Hi!

I have two quick questions regarding this mod

How many enemy skills had their users changed and is the increased AP requirements for leveling materia compensated by the increased AP gained from battles? I ask this because I don't feel like getting level 2 spells at Mt. Nibel and if thats the case I'll just pass offensive green materia.

50

Releases / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] gjoerulv's "Hardcore" mod (v1.0.6s)

« on: 2014-07-24 21:26:05 »

Well, no one can blame me for not being sadistic. I managed to get to Shinra building and there two things driving me nuts.

1 - The ecounter with the two Shinra soldiers and the SOLDIER 3rd class. The guy pretty much killed me a dozen times. Plus having him put people to sleep before theres medicine to cure sleep and accessories to prevent sleep is just unfair. Add enough MP to cast Bolt 2 and Ice 2 like there's no tomorrow, plus a long range attack and the thing is harder than the bosses. I wanted to steal the Hardedge from him (supposing he still carries it) but with his level being 22 or 24 its pretty much impossible for me to have enough tries before he kills me.

2 - The fights seem to lack some balance. There are enemies that just deal too much damage for no reason. 250 per hit is too much for this part of the game without some grinding. The bosses deal less damage. Its just unreasonable. It feels like every fight might be a boss if the strong enemy comes and the bosses are just pushovers... I end up thinking that I would be better off just running from everything and rushing through the bosses. It's the same principle used in D&D games. Some DMs like to make each fight a boss fight. But that ends up ruining the experience, because when there's an actual boss fight, there are no surprises or challenges. The player already went through hell and survived. There should be a build up, where players get comfortable, then face challenges, then surpass something difficult, rinse and repeat, culminating in something really challenging. I can think at the top of my head of tree games that did this perfectly: Legend of Dragoon, FF8 and Chrono Cross. There were bosses, sure. But sometimes there would be a different kind of boss, with a different kind of music. More dark, more frightening and you just KNEW you we're in for some pain. If everything's difficult, there's no surprises. No difficulty peaks. It begins hard and stays hard.


Sorry for being blunt, but if there's one thing I like about games is balance. Theres something called a learning curve. Theres also another thing called difficulty spikes. A basic principle of RPGs is that enemies should become difficult at points when players have options regarding fighting them. In the first hours of any RPG there's hardly a difficult enemy, but that's because the players are still supposed to be learning and getting familiar with the mechanics. Throwing off a boss like Air Buster, wich made me level 'till 14 to beat it, has no point. The player can't go back and buy more materia. Also can't buy items. Can't have access to equipment or damaging items that would really help (except maybe Shrapnels, but they are a pain to get). So, it just comes to dying half a dozen times, figuring it out and then leveling to the point of having enough HP to survive it.

Now if we were talking about the boss in Junon, or others beyond there, that would be a whole different story. The player could change equipment, materia, use items or try using other party members. There's real strategy there.


I don't want to make all the work put into this seem like wrongly done. Its not that. I understand that some people like this kind of challenges. Even I used to love them when I was young and in other games more suited for strategical thinking (Front Mission 3, Star Ocean 2, etc). But even from a simple storyteller's point, there's an objective lack of balance.

Best regards